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CNN Live At Daybreak
Saddam Hussein Audiotape?
Aired May 07, 2003 - 06:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Saddam Hussein on tape, or is it? An audiotape has surfaced. On it, a tired-sounding man urging the Iraqi people to revolt.
Let's go live to Baghdad now and Karl Penhaul.
Karl -- you have listened to this tape. Tell us what's on it.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.
Yes, very much a call to arms to the Iraqi people. We don't know when it was recorded, and we obviously don't know where it was recorded, but the voice on the tape purportedly Saddam Hussein, a call for civil resistance.
He's saying that the Iraqis must do what they can to fight the Americans, who he calls "invaders." He says that there must be demonstrations against the Americans. He's also calling on the Iraqis not to buy or sell goods with the Americans as a form of hurting them economically, if you like. And also calling for some of them to take up arms and to sabotage American tanks and cannons.
Let's listen to a little bit of what he had to say.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Through this secret means, I'm talking to you from inside Great Iraq, and I say to you, the main task for you, Arab and Kurd, Shia and Sunni, Muslim and Christian, and the whole Iraqi people of all religions, your main task is to kick the enemy out from our country. You have to believe that he who is working with the foreigners is working against you. He is not only a servant for foreigners; he is an enemy of God and an enemy of the people as well. Reject these people and reject anything that will divide you, Iraqi people.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PENHAUL: We took the tape recorder out on to the streets of Iraq. We'd already listened to the tape ourselves obviously, and a CNN Baghdad staffer said that he thought there were many of the hallmark phrases of Saddam in this tape. But we wanted to ask the Iraqi people themselves what they thought. Mixed reaction. The tape certainly sparked hot debate.
Here's what one or two of them had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Whether Saddam is dead or alive, he's finished as far as Iraqis are concerned. Saddam is over. We don't want him. We don't want him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, this is his voice. This is his voice. He's in Iraq, but we don't want to fight him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PENHAUL: None of the people we spoke to this morning seemed very happy at the way that the coalition forces are running the country. But there was very little sense from what they were telling us this morning, and having them listen to the tape of Saddam, or purportedly of him, there was very little sense that they were going to follow his calls for a resistance against the coalition forces -- Carol.
COSTELLO: It seems so. Karl Penhaul reporting live from Baghdad this morning.
We want to talk more about this. Joining us now is Simon Henderson. He's authored several books on Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and his newest book is called, "Instant Empire: Saddam Hussein's ambition for Iraq." He joins us live now from London.
Good morning.
SIMON HENDERSON, SADDAM BIOGRAPHER: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Do you think this is Saddam's voice on the tape?
HENDERSON: I'm a skeptic on this. I don't think it's his voice. I think it's -- which isn't to say that Saddam is dead. I think in the absence of a body or any hard information about him, we have to assume that he's probably still alive.
But this tape is both in quality -- it's a very poor quality, which makes actual confirmation one way or another very difficult in terms of voice recognition -- and the words he uses are somehow dissimilar from what I would expect. He refers to his birthday, which was last week, but he makes no reference to the Baath Party, which in all of the other speeches I've read from him, I cannot recall such an omission.
COSTELLO: Ah! Other Iraqis feel there are hallmark phrases on the tape. And I'm going to ask you, just because we know Saddam Hussein has many body doubles, did he have voice doubles, too?
HENDERSON: Well, I assume he does, and indeed I think voice doubles are probably easier than body doubles. And, you know, there are comedians in London, who can take off Prime Minister Tony Blair very well, and so I think it's much easier to take off a national leader than to make it look like him.
But on the more serious point, I believe, though -- I have been told that one of his body doubles does a very good voice imitation of him as well.
COSTELLO: OK, if it's not Saddam Hussein on this tape, who is behind making these tapes, do you think?
HENDERSON: Well, we're well aware that not enough of the Baath Party leadership has been arrested. I think the person who we were told about today, Mr. al-Ubaydi (ph), is No. 20 on the 55 -- list of 55 people in the playing cards list plus three. And, you know, that leaves a lot of other people unaccounted for. And to my mind, the playing cards were very much a reflection not only of those involved in the weapons of mass destruction of Iraq, but also the people who could organize a resistance to American and British forces in Iraq...
COSTELLO: OK, on this...
HENDERSON: ... the Baath Party bureaucrats.
COSTELLO: I just want to interrupt and ask you about this underground struggle, because it was mentioned on the tape. If Saddam Hussein is alive and members of his Baath Party are working with him, do they really have the wherewithal to organize this?
HENDERSON: Well, I fear they do. I mean, the Baath Party was the organization which ran Iraq. It started off as an underground organization, so those members of it with that sort of history to them will recall how to run an underground organization.
But I think it has to be more elaborate than writing slogans on the wall or shooting Americans with your rifles. And I'm surprised, therefore, that if this was Saddam and was his tape, he didn't give more greater instructions to the Baath Party, because communication for him in Iraq would be one of the main challenges.
COSTELLO: Understand. Simon Henderson, many thanks for joining us this morning.
And that Australian newspaper who acquired that tape has turned it over to U.S. authorities in Baghdad, so we may know more about its authenticity, if it is authentic or not, later today.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired May 7, 2003 - 06:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Saddam Hussein on tape, or is it? An audiotape has surfaced. On it, a tired-sounding man urging the Iraqi people to revolt.
Let's go live to Baghdad now and Karl Penhaul.
Karl -- you have listened to this tape. Tell us what's on it.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.
Yes, very much a call to arms to the Iraqi people. We don't know when it was recorded, and we obviously don't know where it was recorded, but the voice on the tape purportedly Saddam Hussein, a call for civil resistance.
He's saying that the Iraqis must do what they can to fight the Americans, who he calls "invaders." He says that there must be demonstrations against the Americans. He's also calling on the Iraqis not to buy or sell goods with the Americans as a form of hurting them economically, if you like. And also calling for some of them to take up arms and to sabotage American tanks and cannons.
Let's listen to a little bit of what he had to say.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Through this secret means, I'm talking to you from inside Great Iraq, and I say to you, the main task for you, Arab and Kurd, Shia and Sunni, Muslim and Christian, and the whole Iraqi people of all religions, your main task is to kick the enemy out from our country. You have to believe that he who is working with the foreigners is working against you. He is not only a servant for foreigners; he is an enemy of God and an enemy of the people as well. Reject these people and reject anything that will divide you, Iraqi people.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PENHAUL: We took the tape recorder out on to the streets of Iraq. We'd already listened to the tape ourselves obviously, and a CNN Baghdad staffer said that he thought there were many of the hallmark phrases of Saddam in this tape. But we wanted to ask the Iraqi people themselves what they thought. Mixed reaction. The tape certainly sparked hot debate.
Here's what one or two of them had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Whether Saddam is dead or alive, he's finished as far as Iraqis are concerned. Saddam is over. We don't want him. We don't want him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, this is his voice. This is his voice. He's in Iraq, but we don't want to fight him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PENHAUL: None of the people we spoke to this morning seemed very happy at the way that the coalition forces are running the country. But there was very little sense from what they were telling us this morning, and having them listen to the tape of Saddam, or purportedly of him, there was very little sense that they were going to follow his calls for a resistance against the coalition forces -- Carol.
COSTELLO: It seems so. Karl Penhaul reporting live from Baghdad this morning.
We want to talk more about this. Joining us now is Simon Henderson. He's authored several books on Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and his newest book is called, "Instant Empire: Saddam Hussein's ambition for Iraq." He joins us live now from London.
Good morning.
SIMON HENDERSON, SADDAM BIOGRAPHER: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Do you think this is Saddam's voice on the tape?
HENDERSON: I'm a skeptic on this. I don't think it's his voice. I think it's -- which isn't to say that Saddam is dead. I think in the absence of a body or any hard information about him, we have to assume that he's probably still alive.
But this tape is both in quality -- it's a very poor quality, which makes actual confirmation one way or another very difficult in terms of voice recognition -- and the words he uses are somehow dissimilar from what I would expect. He refers to his birthday, which was last week, but he makes no reference to the Baath Party, which in all of the other speeches I've read from him, I cannot recall such an omission.
COSTELLO: Ah! Other Iraqis feel there are hallmark phrases on the tape. And I'm going to ask you, just because we know Saddam Hussein has many body doubles, did he have voice doubles, too?
HENDERSON: Well, I assume he does, and indeed I think voice doubles are probably easier than body doubles. And, you know, there are comedians in London, who can take off Prime Minister Tony Blair very well, and so I think it's much easier to take off a national leader than to make it look like him.
But on the more serious point, I believe, though -- I have been told that one of his body doubles does a very good voice imitation of him as well.
COSTELLO: OK, if it's not Saddam Hussein on this tape, who is behind making these tapes, do you think?
HENDERSON: Well, we're well aware that not enough of the Baath Party leadership has been arrested. I think the person who we were told about today, Mr. al-Ubaydi (ph), is No. 20 on the 55 -- list of 55 people in the playing cards list plus three. And, you know, that leaves a lot of other people unaccounted for. And to my mind, the playing cards were very much a reflection not only of those involved in the weapons of mass destruction of Iraq, but also the people who could organize a resistance to American and British forces in Iraq...
COSTELLO: OK, on this...
HENDERSON: ... the Baath Party bureaucrats.
COSTELLO: I just want to interrupt and ask you about this underground struggle, because it was mentioned on the tape. If Saddam Hussein is alive and members of his Baath Party are working with him, do they really have the wherewithal to organize this?
HENDERSON: Well, I fear they do. I mean, the Baath Party was the organization which ran Iraq. It started off as an underground organization, so those members of it with that sort of history to them will recall how to run an underground organization.
But I think it has to be more elaborate than writing slogans on the wall or shooting Americans with your rifles. And I'm surprised, therefore, that if this was Saddam and was his tape, he didn't give more greater instructions to the Baath Party, because communication for him in Iraq would be one of the main challenges.
COSTELLO: Understand. Simon Henderson, many thanks for joining us this morning.
And that Australian newspaper who acquired that tape has turned it over to U.S. authorities in Baghdad, so we may know more about its authenticity, if it is authentic or not, later today.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
