Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Interview with Representative Bart Gordon
Aired May 12, 2003 - 07:41 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The independent board investigating the shuttle disaster is at odds, apparently, with members of Congress, demanding access to closed-door testimony from key NASA officials. The lawmakers say the testimony from some 200 witnesses is critical to their understanding of the Columbia accident.
The board chairman, retired Admiral Harold Gehman, refused our request for an interview, but his office did release a statement, saying, I'm quoting now -- "The Columbia Accident Investigation Board determined it could only provide a deep and rich review of NASA policies and procedures if it employed standard safety investigation procedures, which allow witnesses to talk with investigators under a guarantee of confidentiality."
Tennessee Congressman Bart Gordon, a ranking Democrat on the House Science Committee, is our guest live in Washington this morning.
Sir, thanks for your time this morning.
Do you think NASA is hiding something here?
REP. BART GORDAN (D-TN), HOUSE SCIENCE COMMITTEE: Well, I hope not. But this is an unprecedented situation, where NASA is refusing to allow this testimony to be made available to the Science Committee. We simply can't do our job appropriately of oversight without the committee, without the information. Plus, the American taxpayer, I think, simply deserves to know that their money is being spent properly and that the shuttle is going to be safe.
HEMMER: You say unprecedented. NASA says the courts back them up, and NASA says the military works this way all of the time. Do they have a point?
GORDON: Well, this is not a military review. The precedent is the Rogers Commission, after the Challenger tragedy, all of that information was made public and it was open. The National Transportation Safety Board that investigates all of the various civil aviation accidents makes all of their information public.
And you have to keep in mind that these are private companies. It's much more sensitive than information from a taxpayer-supported program.
HEMMER: What do you think is in those transcripts that would lead you to conclude what happened related to Columbia?
GORDON: Well, you know, this has just been a continuing pattern that we've gone through with NASA in trying to keep some type of veil over this whole process. You've got to keep in mind, also, that this is really not a truly independent commission in that they were appointed by NASA, largely staffed by NASA and report back to NASA. This simply is not the proper way to go about this investigation if we're going to have credibility with Congress and with the public.
HEMMER: Understood. Go back to the original point, though. NASA says right now this is the only way to get frank and honest answers and discussions regarding what happened on Columbia. Do you dispute that completely, knowing that confidentiality probably could lend them the opportunity to gain some answers that would not be forthcoming otherwise?
GORDON: Well, again, the Rogers Commission did a very good job without this. And I'm not opposed to confidentiality of individuals, their names. But we need to have the information, and it needs to be available. Certainly, if Secretary Rumsfeld and the Pentagon can brief members of Congress daily in a top-secret-members-only basis on what's going on in Iraq, that the Science Committee should have access to this information to do its job appropriately.
HEMMER: There are articles today, high-profile ones, too. "The Washington Post" has a front-page piece today, the "L.A. Times" as well, saying that the shuttle system right now and the program is outdated, it's throwing good money after bad money, why continue the operation -- some of the questions and issues they bring up. Is there a point to be made there?
GORDON: Well, I think these are serious questions, and it's something that needs to be investigated. We certainly don't want to be sending human beings into space if it's not going to be a safe situation, and we're not going to be able to have answers to that information appropriately without knowing about this testimony.
HEMMER: We are going to talk with a NASA administrator next hour. What is your message to him? Should the shuttle program continue or not?
GORDON: Well, I think that it's premature to make that decision. But simply this needs to be a decision that's made with full information. The American taxpayer needs to know that, and certainly the Science Committee that has the appropriate relevant oversight needs to know.
And again, this is unprecedented. This is not a military investigation. This is a public investigation, conducted like the Rogers Commission and like the National Safety Transportation Board.
HEMMER: Congressman, thanks for your time -- Bart Gordon in D.C.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired May 12, 2003 - 07:41 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The independent board investigating the shuttle disaster is at odds, apparently, with members of Congress, demanding access to closed-door testimony from key NASA officials. The lawmakers say the testimony from some 200 witnesses is critical to their understanding of the Columbia accident.
The board chairman, retired Admiral Harold Gehman, refused our request for an interview, but his office did release a statement, saying, I'm quoting now -- "The Columbia Accident Investigation Board determined it could only provide a deep and rich review of NASA policies and procedures if it employed standard safety investigation procedures, which allow witnesses to talk with investigators under a guarantee of confidentiality."
Tennessee Congressman Bart Gordon, a ranking Democrat on the House Science Committee, is our guest live in Washington this morning.
Sir, thanks for your time this morning.
Do you think NASA is hiding something here?
REP. BART GORDAN (D-TN), HOUSE SCIENCE COMMITTEE: Well, I hope not. But this is an unprecedented situation, where NASA is refusing to allow this testimony to be made available to the Science Committee. We simply can't do our job appropriately of oversight without the committee, without the information. Plus, the American taxpayer, I think, simply deserves to know that their money is being spent properly and that the shuttle is going to be safe.
HEMMER: You say unprecedented. NASA says the courts back them up, and NASA says the military works this way all of the time. Do they have a point?
GORDON: Well, this is not a military review. The precedent is the Rogers Commission, after the Challenger tragedy, all of that information was made public and it was open. The National Transportation Safety Board that investigates all of the various civil aviation accidents makes all of their information public.
And you have to keep in mind that these are private companies. It's much more sensitive than information from a taxpayer-supported program.
HEMMER: What do you think is in those transcripts that would lead you to conclude what happened related to Columbia?
GORDON: Well, you know, this has just been a continuing pattern that we've gone through with NASA in trying to keep some type of veil over this whole process. You've got to keep in mind, also, that this is really not a truly independent commission in that they were appointed by NASA, largely staffed by NASA and report back to NASA. This simply is not the proper way to go about this investigation if we're going to have credibility with Congress and with the public.
HEMMER: Understood. Go back to the original point, though. NASA says right now this is the only way to get frank and honest answers and discussions regarding what happened on Columbia. Do you dispute that completely, knowing that confidentiality probably could lend them the opportunity to gain some answers that would not be forthcoming otherwise?
GORDON: Well, again, the Rogers Commission did a very good job without this. And I'm not opposed to confidentiality of individuals, their names. But we need to have the information, and it needs to be available. Certainly, if Secretary Rumsfeld and the Pentagon can brief members of Congress daily in a top-secret-members-only basis on what's going on in Iraq, that the Science Committee should have access to this information to do its job appropriately.
HEMMER: There are articles today, high-profile ones, too. "The Washington Post" has a front-page piece today, the "L.A. Times" as well, saying that the shuttle system right now and the program is outdated, it's throwing good money after bad money, why continue the operation -- some of the questions and issues they bring up. Is there a point to be made there?
GORDON: Well, I think these are serious questions, and it's something that needs to be investigated. We certainly don't want to be sending human beings into space if it's not going to be a safe situation, and we're not going to be able to have answers to that information appropriately without knowing about this testimony.
HEMMER: We are going to talk with a NASA administrator next hour. What is your message to him? Should the shuttle program continue or not?
GORDON: Well, I think that it's premature to make that decision. But simply this needs to be a decision that's made with full information. The American taxpayer needs to know that, and certainly the Science Committee that has the appropriate relevant oversight needs to know.
And again, this is unprecedented. This is not a military investigation. This is a public investigation, conducted like the Rogers Commission and like the National Safety Transportation Board.
HEMMER: Congressman, thanks for your time -- Bart Gordon in D.C.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
