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CNN Live Today
News Not Fit to Print
Aired May 13, 2003 - 11:37 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A newspaper known as "the old gray lady" is hoping to recover from a black eye today. "The New York Times," a gold standard in print journalism, got taken to the cleaners by a young reporter. Jayson Blair, 27 years old, and four-year "Times" employee made up stories, he invented sources and facts and plagiarized other writers. The paper devoted four pages this past weekend to apologies and corrections. And we quote one here, "Widespread fabrication and plagiarism represent a profound betrayal of trust, and a low point in the 152-year history of the newspaper.
Let's talk about Blair's impact no on journalist and "The New York Times" as well with Howard Kurtz. He's with "The Washington Post." He's a media critic there, and also host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES."
Good to see you again. How are you?
Got to ask you, could you imagine this happening to "The New York Times."
HOWARD KURTZ, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, the truth is, it could happen anywhere. It happened at "The Washington Post" 22 years ago with the Janet Cook debacle. It's happened at "The New Republic" and "The Boston Globe."
But what's really just exploded with nuclear force in the news business is not just that it happened as prestigious a newspaper as "The New York Times," but that the managers and executives allowed these to happen, because as you know, there were so many red flags about the sloppy work, and corrections and erratic work habits of Jayson Blair, and yet, nobody cracked down on him until it was too late.
HARRIS: Seems like there were plenty of people on the inside who were talking, at least amongst themselves. There's been evidence, or at least reports this morning, in recent days as well, of managers in the newsroom who have been talking to their higher ups saying something about get him out of here now, and still nothing happened.
Let me ask you this, give us a rating, or your view, of the "Times" both in how they handled that inside and how they're handling the flack afterward.
KURTZ: Well, it wasn't that difficult to crack the case. Two weeks ago, when I first wrote about Jayson Blair, plagiarizing a story from a San Antonio newspaper, it took me a day and a half of doing searches to find out several other people he quoted. I've never even talked to the guy, never even seen the guy.
Now, I give "The New York Times" a lot of credit for laying out the evidence, and they didn't really have much choice, because this is, by the paper's own admission, probably the low moment in its 152- year history. But a lot of people, including me, are saying they haven't fully explained either in this piece or interviews, how it is that management, when they had a memo from the metro editor saying we have to stop Jayson from writing for "The New York Times" right now, how it is that this kid was treated with kid gloves, given not just a second chance, Leon, but a third, fourth, fifth and sixth chance. Some critics of affirmative action and diversity are saying perhaps they went easier on him, because they didn't want to derail the career of a promising minority journalist.
HARRIS: What do you think of that? I was going to ask you about that. It seems as though that's going to be an unavoidable topic to talk about, because it seems like he was on the fast track. "The Times" now, it's pretty much been revealed that they've gone out of their way to try to develop more minorities in their news room. What do you think this means about all of that?
KURTZ: Well, I don't want to cast aspersions on any other black journalist, and I know there's a lot of concern in the minority community that Jayson Blair will be seen as somehow tainting the work of others. But clearly, mostly white editors, and this happens in a lot of newsrooms, where you want to develop promising minority journalists, they just fail to do what they should have been done.
This was a guy who had 50 corrections in four years, and disappeared for unexplained reasons. He was often down at the corner bar. I mean, this guy had a lot of problems. And suddenly, he's covering the Washington sniper case. Suddenly, he's being promoted to the national staff. Those questions have not fully been answered. And clearly, the people who run "The New York Times" are just starting to repair internally some of the damage. It's a black eye that's going to last for a long time. This was not a one-time mistake.
Well, let me ask you about this. I want you to listen to this one soundbite that we've got here, and I want you to comment on this as well.
Let's go ahead and listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT HORAN, FAIRFAX CO. COMMONWEALTH ATTY.: At least 60 percent is not active. I'm just not going to get in the business of telling you pretrial what the facts are. I'm not going to do that. But I am going to tell you that whoever put that stuff out is putting out information that is simply untrue. And I want the media to know that, particularly the media that follows like lemmings behind "The New York Times" and says whatever "The New York Times" says as if it's gospel. They've been wrong before, and they're wrong on this one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: There you go, Robert Horan there.
He was one of those who was misquoted, or actually had a quote just fabricated coming from him, and this is in regards to that sniper case that you mentioned happened in Washington.
The question that I have, Howie, is how come there weren't more people who were misquoted and had quotes fabricated or attributed to them, why didn't more of them come forward?
KURTZ: That's very hard to understand. Because if more of them had, I think then the "Times" would have been forced to confront this a lot earlier and this fabrication wouldn't have spiralled out of control.
In the case of the prosecutor Robert Horan, it wasn't that he was misquoted; he called a news conference just to say that the story that Jayson Blair had written, based on unnamed law enforcement sources about the sniper case was dead wrong. That was a pretty big red flag, and yet Hal Raines wrote an e-mail to Jayson Blair saying, good shoe leather reporting.
So lots of missed opportunities there. People who were misquoted or never talked to Jayson Blair should have complained. I think they're intimidated. How do you call a large newspaper and say, well, you know, the reporter never talked to me? Maybe they've come to expect that journalists just make things up, and there's the lasting damage.
HARRIS: See, that's what I was wondering.
KURTZ: All of us in some way have been tainted by this, because if it could happen at "The New York Times." It has happened at "The Washington Post." It could happen anywhere. And it further makes people feel that sloppy journalism, or dishonest journalism or fabricated journalism is par for the course. That's not the case for 99.9 percent of the people in this business. But we're all looking worse today because of what Jayson Blair did.
HARRIS: I got to ask you this on the way out, because you did bring up the Janet Cook incident from 1991. Has there been (UNINTELLIGIBLE) going on there at "The Washington Post" for folks there, not enjoying watching "The New York times" squirm some, but at least getting satisfaction out of seeing it happen someplace else.
KURTZ: I got to tell you honestly, absolutely not. Janet Cook remains a stain on the reputation of this newspaper some 22 years later. And the fact is, particularly minority journalist, but all journalists feel like it makes us all look bad. "New York Times" is a great newspaper. I'm sorry that this happened. I do think there's a lot of unanswered questions about how management let this happen, and those kinds of questions have to be answered but we're not celebrating about this; it doesn't help anybody.
HARRIS: No, because it makes us all clocks that chime 13 times. It makes everyone suspect everything else you say. Thanks, Howie. Howard Kurtz "The Washington Post." Good to see you. Take care. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 13, 2003 - 11:37 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A newspaper known as "the old gray lady" is hoping to recover from a black eye today. "The New York Times," a gold standard in print journalism, got taken to the cleaners by a young reporter. Jayson Blair, 27 years old, and four-year "Times" employee made up stories, he invented sources and facts and plagiarized other writers. The paper devoted four pages this past weekend to apologies and corrections. And we quote one here, "Widespread fabrication and plagiarism represent a profound betrayal of trust, and a low point in the 152-year history of the newspaper.
Let's talk about Blair's impact no on journalist and "The New York Times" as well with Howard Kurtz. He's with "The Washington Post." He's a media critic there, and also host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES."
Good to see you again. How are you?
Got to ask you, could you imagine this happening to "The New York Times."
HOWARD KURTZ, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, the truth is, it could happen anywhere. It happened at "The Washington Post" 22 years ago with the Janet Cook debacle. It's happened at "The New Republic" and "The Boston Globe."
But what's really just exploded with nuclear force in the news business is not just that it happened as prestigious a newspaper as "The New York Times," but that the managers and executives allowed these to happen, because as you know, there were so many red flags about the sloppy work, and corrections and erratic work habits of Jayson Blair, and yet, nobody cracked down on him until it was too late.
HARRIS: Seems like there were plenty of people on the inside who were talking, at least amongst themselves. There's been evidence, or at least reports this morning, in recent days as well, of managers in the newsroom who have been talking to their higher ups saying something about get him out of here now, and still nothing happened.
Let me ask you this, give us a rating, or your view, of the "Times" both in how they handled that inside and how they're handling the flack afterward.
KURTZ: Well, it wasn't that difficult to crack the case. Two weeks ago, when I first wrote about Jayson Blair, plagiarizing a story from a San Antonio newspaper, it took me a day and a half of doing searches to find out several other people he quoted. I've never even talked to the guy, never even seen the guy.
Now, I give "The New York Times" a lot of credit for laying out the evidence, and they didn't really have much choice, because this is, by the paper's own admission, probably the low moment in its 152- year history. But a lot of people, including me, are saying they haven't fully explained either in this piece or interviews, how it is that management, when they had a memo from the metro editor saying we have to stop Jayson from writing for "The New York Times" right now, how it is that this kid was treated with kid gloves, given not just a second chance, Leon, but a third, fourth, fifth and sixth chance. Some critics of affirmative action and diversity are saying perhaps they went easier on him, because they didn't want to derail the career of a promising minority journalist.
HARRIS: What do you think of that? I was going to ask you about that. It seems as though that's going to be an unavoidable topic to talk about, because it seems like he was on the fast track. "The Times" now, it's pretty much been revealed that they've gone out of their way to try to develop more minorities in their news room. What do you think this means about all of that?
KURTZ: Well, I don't want to cast aspersions on any other black journalist, and I know there's a lot of concern in the minority community that Jayson Blair will be seen as somehow tainting the work of others. But clearly, mostly white editors, and this happens in a lot of newsrooms, where you want to develop promising minority journalists, they just fail to do what they should have been done.
This was a guy who had 50 corrections in four years, and disappeared for unexplained reasons. He was often down at the corner bar. I mean, this guy had a lot of problems. And suddenly, he's covering the Washington sniper case. Suddenly, he's being promoted to the national staff. Those questions have not fully been answered. And clearly, the people who run "The New York Times" are just starting to repair internally some of the damage. It's a black eye that's going to last for a long time. This was not a one-time mistake.
Well, let me ask you about this. I want you to listen to this one soundbite that we've got here, and I want you to comment on this as well.
Let's go ahead and listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT HORAN, FAIRFAX CO. COMMONWEALTH ATTY.: At least 60 percent is not active. I'm just not going to get in the business of telling you pretrial what the facts are. I'm not going to do that. But I am going to tell you that whoever put that stuff out is putting out information that is simply untrue. And I want the media to know that, particularly the media that follows like lemmings behind "The New York Times" and says whatever "The New York Times" says as if it's gospel. They've been wrong before, and they're wrong on this one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: There you go, Robert Horan there.
He was one of those who was misquoted, or actually had a quote just fabricated coming from him, and this is in regards to that sniper case that you mentioned happened in Washington.
The question that I have, Howie, is how come there weren't more people who were misquoted and had quotes fabricated or attributed to them, why didn't more of them come forward?
KURTZ: That's very hard to understand. Because if more of them had, I think then the "Times" would have been forced to confront this a lot earlier and this fabrication wouldn't have spiralled out of control.
In the case of the prosecutor Robert Horan, it wasn't that he was misquoted; he called a news conference just to say that the story that Jayson Blair had written, based on unnamed law enforcement sources about the sniper case was dead wrong. That was a pretty big red flag, and yet Hal Raines wrote an e-mail to Jayson Blair saying, good shoe leather reporting.
So lots of missed opportunities there. People who were misquoted or never talked to Jayson Blair should have complained. I think they're intimidated. How do you call a large newspaper and say, well, you know, the reporter never talked to me? Maybe they've come to expect that journalists just make things up, and there's the lasting damage.
HARRIS: See, that's what I was wondering.
KURTZ: All of us in some way have been tainted by this, because if it could happen at "The New York Times." It has happened at "The Washington Post." It could happen anywhere. And it further makes people feel that sloppy journalism, or dishonest journalism or fabricated journalism is par for the course. That's not the case for 99.9 percent of the people in this business. But we're all looking worse today because of what Jayson Blair did.
HARRIS: I got to ask you this on the way out, because you did bring up the Janet Cook incident from 1991. Has there been (UNINTELLIGIBLE) going on there at "The Washington Post" for folks there, not enjoying watching "The New York times" squirm some, but at least getting satisfaction out of seeing it happen someplace else.
KURTZ: I got to tell you honestly, absolutely not. Janet Cook remains a stain on the reputation of this newspaper some 22 years later. And the fact is, particularly minority journalist, but all journalists feel like it makes us all look bad. "New York Times" is a great newspaper. I'm sorry that this happened. I do think there's a lot of unanswered questions about how management let this happen, and those kinds of questions have to be answered but we're not celebrating about this; it doesn't help anybody.
HARRIS: No, because it makes us all clocks that chime 13 times. It makes everyone suspect everything else you say. Thanks, Howie. Howard Kurtz "The Washington Post." Good to see you. Take care. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
