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CNN Live Today

Interview With Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, Wayne LaPierre

Aired May 15, 2003 - 10:28   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A ban on assault weapons is caught in the crossfire of election year politics. In 2004, election year, the date also when the ban on 19 assault weapons is due to expire. Well, Congress apparently is not going to make any attempt to extend that ban.
A spokesman for House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who is charge of brining up any legislation for voting says that DeLay is saying, "I would say that the majority leader is pretty skeptical of reauthorizing it, as is the House as a whole."

Joining us now to talk about this is Democratic congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy. She is from New York. You may recall her story, she lost her husband, Dennis, and nearly lost her son to a gunman on a Long Island commuter train back in 1993. Thank you very much for taking time to talk with us this morning, Congresswoman.

REP. CAROLYN MCCARTHY (D), NEW YORK: Thank you. It is my pleasure.

HARRIS: I would like to read you also a comment that leader DeLay is quoted in the wires on saying that, as of Tuesday, he said that -- he indicated there would be no support to renew the current law before it expires on September 13 of next year, saying that the votes in the House are not there to reauthorize it. Is that the case?

MCCARTHY: Well, I think Tom DeLay is not in tune with the American people. I'm sure the American people do not want to go back to the day, allowing AK-47s back on the streets, or even the newer models that are the Bushmaster that were used in the D.C. sniping killings last year. Basically, the gun manufacturers have allowed these particular guns on the street. They basically advertise them saying that they are post days (ph), and this is what the gun manufacturers do.

HARRIS: Now, I understand you have introduced a bill of your own regarding this?

MCCARTHY: Yes. I would like to see, certainly, make sure that we keep the assault weapons off the street, but also, when the NRA basically says they think it doesn't work, I happen to think it does, but with with any law that we pass here, there are loopholes. I think the gun manufacturers should not be able to sell conversion kits so that they can make them into assault weapons, and I think they should live up to the law that we passed back in 1994.

HARRIS: Where is guidance coming from -- from the White House, rather, on this? It seems President Bush is saying he supports a ban, but he's not telling Congress to actually vote on this. What do you read that as?

MCCARTHY: Well, again, down here in Washington, we do a lot of politics. I'm hoping that the president certainly will hear the voices of the American people, besides just the members of the NRA. The president at 12:00 is going to be speaking at a police memorial. Our police departments support us on extending the assault weapons ban, and I hope that when he sees the widows and members that have lost someone from assault weapons that kill our police officers, he will change his mind.

HARRIS: From what I'm being told, Speaker Hastert -- Speaker Dennis Hastert of The house is saying that he has not yet spoken with Mr. Bush about this matter yet, so that there is no reason to expect any word from the White House on this. But let me read to you a comment also coming from the Senate, this from Senator Schumer from New York.

He is saying, "The House does everything the president wants. If the House says we're not doing it, you know something is going on."

Would you agree with that?

MCCARTHY: I probably would agree with that, but we're just starting to reach out to our members throughout the country, and we're certainly going to try and put pressure on the president. He did say during his presidential candidacy that he would certainly stand by to make sure the assault weapons ban stays in place, and we are going to hold him to that promise.

HARRIS: Now, there is not even going to be a debate on this. As I understand it, the way the rules are working right now, speaker -- I am sorry, leader DeLay can determine whether or not it comes up. He is saying he is not even going to bring this up for any kind of debate. There are some who are saying this is evidence of the NRA's control of the GOP and the House. Would you agree with that?

MCCARTHY: Well, we know that the NRA has control over the House, but that is not the point. The point is the American people don't want to see assault weapons back on the street. This is basically part of Homeland Security. Do you want terrorists to be able to go anywhere, to be able to buy an assault weapon, to come back out onto our streets? It is easy enough to get them now because of the way the law was written back in 1994, having so many guns being able to be made before it. Also you can pick up a lot of these guns in gun shows, but that is not the point.

We know that we can protect our police officers by keeping these guns off. I know Mr. LaPierre will probably say it's not working. That is not true. Our police officers are still being shot by these particular guns. Our gangs throughout the country are using these guns because it is so easy to get them. We have not taken away anyone's right to own a gun, and I want to stress that because that is the argument they always have. This is a ban that has been in place. It is working, and we should continue to fight to keep it. HARRIS: Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy of New York, thank you very much. We appreciate your words this morning.

MCCARTHY: Thank you.

HARRIS: We're back in a moment after a break, folks. On the other side, we will have the view of the executive vice president of the National Rifle Association Wayne LaPierre. You heard Congresswoman McCarthy mention his name. There he is, and we'll get to him right after the break. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And we are back, and before the break, we heard from Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy who favors extending the assault weapons ban which is due to expire in September of next year. Well, now, NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre is here to explain why his organization wants to see that ban just go away as of September 13.

Thank you for coming in and talking with us this morning and sharing your view. First of all...

WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NRA: Thanks, Leon.

HARRIS: ... any comment in response to what you heard just a moment ago from the Congresswoman?

LAPIERRE: Well, Leon, I understand the congresswoman's passion, but let me tell you, to start, what works. What works is, we have a lot of laws on the books, and a lot of gun laws on the books. What stops crime is every time a violent felon touches a gun, a violent drug dealer, a violent criminal, use the existing federal law, prosecute him 100 percent, confront the criminal directly, and take him off the street and put him in jail.

In places that have done that like Richmond, Virginia with Project Exile, we have seen a dramatic reduction in crime in those cities, and we've seen lives be saved. That is what works. Great Britain, which banned guns for law abiding citizens altogether, the head of the Metropolitan Police Federation said five years later, the laws had no effect at all on criminal access to illegal guns. So, what really does work is confronting criminals, prosecuting them, and throwing them in jail.

HARRIS: All right. Let me ask you, because first of all, you may have heard me ask the congresswoman about assertions that President Bush right now seems to be taking sort of a middle line tactic here, saying he wants that ban to stay in place, but he's not urging Congress to actually do anything about it. How do you read that?

LAPIERRE: Well, I think this issue -- I've always thought it was going to be decided by Congress, not the White House. It -- Congress is going to look at this, they are going to do an impartial evaluation, and I believe the issue will die on its merits. There have been two studies done by the government since this law was passed in '94. They both show the law has had no impact on crime, that these guns weren't used in crime anyway.

HARRIS: But -- I understand where you are heading with that, but I just have to ask you about, it just seems as though this is an issue that almost everyone in the country has an opinion on.

And right now, there is no clear indication that the public is wholeheartedly going one way or the other on this -- isn't there something a bit dishonest in not having at least a public debate about whether or not this should expire?

LAPIERRE: Well, I think the House will do an impartial review of it, but let me tell you, this whole issue was built on President Clinton deceiving the American public, and I just heard some of it again from the congresswoman, into believing that these were fully automatic guns, that these guns sprayed bullets, that they were more powerful, that these were the guns our military uses. These were the guns you see on TV in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them are.

We're talking about self-loading firearms here, none of which are machine guns. It's against the law to sell a firearm in the United States that is readily or easily convertible to a fully automatic gun. You have to pull the trigger each time to make them shoot. If you hold trigger down, nothing will happen, and it's all built on a lie to the segment of the American public that doesn't know anything about guns. Bill Clinton told the congressmen in '94 they would be real popular if they did that. Ninety million gun owners deeply resented it, and many, many congressmen were voted out of office because the people that do know about guns know this whole issue is built on deceiving the segment of the American public that knows nothing about guns.

HARRIS: I understand that -- again, though, it still -- it seems as though there should at least be some sort of public debate about it, but let me ask you this, because we are just getting word on something, and I want to your response to this if we can, rather quickly. We are just now getting word in from Washington that Speaker Hastert has just spoken in his office, and he has said that he has not yet discussed whether or not this ban should expire, has not discussed what tactic to take on this whole thing with Leader DeLay, and he has not also spoken yet with the president or with any of the GOP leadership in the House, so no decision has been made just yet. It appears, though, there -- would you read that as something of a back pedaling, then, away from what we heard Congressman DeLay say moments ago -- at least a day or two ago?

LAPIERRE: I don't know -- I don't think this is partisan issue, Leon. I think there are Democrats and Republicans that have been educated on this issue. They know these aren't fully automatic guns, they now the issue was built on a lie, and they don't want to have what happened to them to what happened to many of the Congressmen and senators that President Clinton said, Walk that plank. Well, they walked the plank, and the public deeply resented this misrepresentation about these guns. They are not machine guns. They are not used in crime, and they are not the type of guns our military uses, and they are not assault rifles. And they can throw around the term "assault rifles," but the 90 million gun owners know that is not true, and they deeply resent the politicians saying it, and "The New York Times" editorial board, the "Washington Post," the "L.A. Times," and some of the networks may repeat the lie, but that doesn't make it true.

HARRIS: Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the NRA, thank you very much.

LAPIERRE: Thank you, Leon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired May 15, 2003 - 10:28   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A ban on assault weapons is caught in the crossfire of election year politics. In 2004, election year, the date also when the ban on 19 assault weapons is due to expire. Well, Congress apparently is not going to make any attempt to extend that ban.
A spokesman for House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who is charge of brining up any legislation for voting says that DeLay is saying, "I would say that the majority leader is pretty skeptical of reauthorizing it, as is the House as a whole."

Joining us now to talk about this is Democratic congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy. She is from New York. You may recall her story, she lost her husband, Dennis, and nearly lost her son to a gunman on a Long Island commuter train back in 1993. Thank you very much for taking time to talk with us this morning, Congresswoman.

REP. CAROLYN MCCARTHY (D), NEW YORK: Thank you. It is my pleasure.

HARRIS: I would like to read you also a comment that leader DeLay is quoted in the wires on saying that, as of Tuesday, he said that -- he indicated there would be no support to renew the current law before it expires on September 13 of next year, saying that the votes in the House are not there to reauthorize it. Is that the case?

MCCARTHY: Well, I think Tom DeLay is not in tune with the American people. I'm sure the American people do not want to go back to the day, allowing AK-47s back on the streets, or even the newer models that are the Bushmaster that were used in the D.C. sniping killings last year. Basically, the gun manufacturers have allowed these particular guns on the street. They basically advertise them saying that they are post days (ph), and this is what the gun manufacturers do.

HARRIS: Now, I understand you have introduced a bill of your own regarding this?

MCCARTHY: Yes. I would like to see, certainly, make sure that we keep the assault weapons off the street, but also, when the NRA basically says they think it doesn't work, I happen to think it does, but with with any law that we pass here, there are loopholes. I think the gun manufacturers should not be able to sell conversion kits so that they can make them into assault weapons, and I think they should live up to the law that we passed back in 1994.

HARRIS: Where is guidance coming from -- from the White House, rather, on this? It seems President Bush is saying he supports a ban, but he's not telling Congress to actually vote on this. What do you read that as?

MCCARTHY: Well, again, down here in Washington, we do a lot of politics. I'm hoping that the president certainly will hear the voices of the American people, besides just the members of the NRA. The president at 12:00 is going to be speaking at a police memorial. Our police departments support us on extending the assault weapons ban, and I hope that when he sees the widows and members that have lost someone from assault weapons that kill our police officers, he will change his mind.

HARRIS: From what I'm being told, Speaker Hastert -- Speaker Dennis Hastert of The house is saying that he has not yet spoken with Mr. Bush about this matter yet, so that there is no reason to expect any word from the White House on this. But let me read to you a comment also coming from the Senate, this from Senator Schumer from New York.

He is saying, "The House does everything the president wants. If the House says we're not doing it, you know something is going on."

Would you agree with that?

MCCARTHY: I probably would agree with that, but we're just starting to reach out to our members throughout the country, and we're certainly going to try and put pressure on the president. He did say during his presidential candidacy that he would certainly stand by to make sure the assault weapons ban stays in place, and we are going to hold him to that promise.

HARRIS: Now, there is not even going to be a debate on this. As I understand it, the way the rules are working right now, speaker -- I am sorry, leader DeLay can determine whether or not it comes up. He is saying he is not even going to bring this up for any kind of debate. There are some who are saying this is evidence of the NRA's control of the GOP and the House. Would you agree with that?

MCCARTHY: Well, we know that the NRA has control over the House, but that is not the point. The point is the American people don't want to see assault weapons back on the street. This is basically part of Homeland Security. Do you want terrorists to be able to go anywhere, to be able to buy an assault weapon, to come back out onto our streets? It is easy enough to get them now because of the way the law was written back in 1994, having so many guns being able to be made before it. Also you can pick up a lot of these guns in gun shows, but that is not the point.

We know that we can protect our police officers by keeping these guns off. I know Mr. LaPierre will probably say it's not working. That is not true. Our police officers are still being shot by these particular guns. Our gangs throughout the country are using these guns because it is so easy to get them. We have not taken away anyone's right to own a gun, and I want to stress that because that is the argument they always have. This is a ban that has been in place. It is working, and we should continue to fight to keep it. HARRIS: Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy of New York, thank you very much. We appreciate your words this morning.

MCCARTHY: Thank you.

HARRIS: We're back in a moment after a break, folks. On the other side, we will have the view of the executive vice president of the National Rifle Association Wayne LaPierre. You heard Congresswoman McCarthy mention his name. There he is, and we'll get to him right after the break. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And we are back, and before the break, we heard from Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy who favors extending the assault weapons ban which is due to expire in September of next year. Well, now, NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre is here to explain why his organization wants to see that ban just go away as of September 13.

Thank you for coming in and talking with us this morning and sharing your view. First of all...

WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NRA: Thanks, Leon.

HARRIS: ... any comment in response to what you heard just a moment ago from the Congresswoman?

LAPIERRE: Well, Leon, I understand the congresswoman's passion, but let me tell you, to start, what works. What works is, we have a lot of laws on the books, and a lot of gun laws on the books. What stops crime is every time a violent felon touches a gun, a violent drug dealer, a violent criminal, use the existing federal law, prosecute him 100 percent, confront the criminal directly, and take him off the street and put him in jail.

In places that have done that like Richmond, Virginia with Project Exile, we have seen a dramatic reduction in crime in those cities, and we've seen lives be saved. That is what works. Great Britain, which banned guns for law abiding citizens altogether, the head of the Metropolitan Police Federation said five years later, the laws had no effect at all on criminal access to illegal guns. So, what really does work is confronting criminals, prosecuting them, and throwing them in jail.

HARRIS: All right. Let me ask you, because first of all, you may have heard me ask the congresswoman about assertions that President Bush right now seems to be taking sort of a middle line tactic here, saying he wants that ban to stay in place, but he's not urging Congress to actually do anything about it. How do you read that?

LAPIERRE: Well, I think this issue -- I've always thought it was going to be decided by Congress, not the White House. It -- Congress is going to look at this, they are going to do an impartial evaluation, and I believe the issue will die on its merits. There have been two studies done by the government since this law was passed in '94. They both show the law has had no impact on crime, that these guns weren't used in crime anyway.

HARRIS: But -- I understand where you are heading with that, but I just have to ask you about, it just seems as though this is an issue that almost everyone in the country has an opinion on.

And right now, there is no clear indication that the public is wholeheartedly going one way or the other on this -- isn't there something a bit dishonest in not having at least a public debate about whether or not this should expire?

LAPIERRE: Well, I think the House will do an impartial review of it, but let me tell you, this whole issue was built on President Clinton deceiving the American public, and I just heard some of it again from the congresswoman, into believing that these were fully automatic guns, that these guns sprayed bullets, that they were more powerful, that these were the guns our military uses. These were the guns you see on TV in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them are.

We're talking about self-loading firearms here, none of which are machine guns. It's against the law to sell a firearm in the United States that is readily or easily convertible to a fully automatic gun. You have to pull the trigger each time to make them shoot. If you hold trigger down, nothing will happen, and it's all built on a lie to the segment of the American public that doesn't know anything about guns. Bill Clinton told the congressmen in '94 they would be real popular if they did that. Ninety million gun owners deeply resented it, and many, many congressmen were voted out of office because the people that do know about guns know this whole issue is built on deceiving the segment of the American public that knows nothing about guns.

HARRIS: I understand that -- again, though, it still -- it seems as though there should at least be some sort of public debate about it, but let me ask you this, because we are just getting word on something, and I want to your response to this if we can, rather quickly. We are just now getting word in from Washington that Speaker Hastert has just spoken in his office, and he has said that he has not yet discussed whether or not this ban should expire, has not discussed what tactic to take on this whole thing with Leader DeLay, and he has not also spoken yet with the president or with any of the GOP leadership in the House, so no decision has been made just yet. It appears, though, there -- would you read that as something of a back pedaling, then, away from what we heard Congressman DeLay say moments ago -- at least a day or two ago?

LAPIERRE: I don't know -- I don't think this is partisan issue, Leon. I think there are Democrats and Republicans that have been educated on this issue. They know these aren't fully automatic guns, they now the issue was built on a lie, and they don't want to have what happened to them to what happened to many of the Congressmen and senators that President Clinton said, Walk that plank. Well, they walked the plank, and the public deeply resented this misrepresentation about these guns. They are not machine guns. They are not used in crime, and they are not the type of guns our military uses, and they are not assault rifles. And they can throw around the term "assault rifles," but the 90 million gun owners know that is not true, and they deeply resent the politicians saying it, and "The New York Times" editorial board, the "Washington Post," the "L.A. Times," and some of the networks may repeat the lie, but that doesn't make it true.

HARRIS: Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the NRA, thank you very much.

LAPIERRE: Thank you, Leon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com