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Q&A with Jim Clancy
Interview With Bishara Bahbah, Yossi Shain
Aired May 16, 2003 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The Israeli and Palestinian prime ministers scheduled to hold a groundbreaking meeting. It is the first Israeli-Palestinian summit in more than two years. On the table: the roadmap for peace. Will the two leaders, however, be able to see eye to eye?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We hope the negotiation with Mr. Sharon will be positive.
ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MIN. (through translator): Israel on this subject will have to make moves that will be painful, but there will be no compromise on security.
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECY. OF STATE: This is the time for both sides to be prepared to make compromises, to step forward, to take steps that will move us down a path to peace.
HOLMES: On this edition of Q&A, will this meeting put the Middle East on the roadmap to peace?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
And welcome to Q&A.
With the upcoming talks between the Israeli and Palestinian prime ministers, what can we expect? Both have made their positions very public, but could there be a surprise this weekend?
With their views, we have two guests well-versed in the region. From Washington, we're joined by Yossi Shain. He's a professor of government at Georgetown University, also a professor of politics at Tel Aviv University. And from Phoenix, Arizona, Bishara Bahbah. He was a member of the Palestinian delegation to the peace talks in the 1990's, also formerly the associate director of Harvard's Middle East Institute.
Dr. Bahbah, I'll begin with you. What do you expect to come from these talks? Are you hopeful? Many people are setting the bar very low.
BISHARA BAHBAH, FMR. PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Well, actually I wold accept the notion that much should be expected form this summit meeting.
However, the fact that it is being held after two years of violence on both sides and a complete rupture of the peace process is very significant.
HOLMES: Dr. Shain, Yossi, if I could put this to you, do you believe -- and I know you live in both the United States and in Israel. Do you believe that there is a true willingness, not on the part of Israelis, but on behalf of the Israeli leadership, to see this through, to actually make this happen?
YOSSI SHAIN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I absolutely believe that the Israeli leadership is eager to enter a dialogue with the Palestinians that will lead to cessation of violence and the beginning of new dialogue on the peace process itself.
It is essential for the Israeli leadership, and I believe that Ariel Sharon is absolutely committed to the point of negotiating in good faith. I don't buy all the ideas that the Israeli prime minister or the Israeli government is taking this dialogue lightly.
HOLMES: I'm curious as to your thoughts on something that has been discussed extensively in the Israeli media in the past week, and that is the attitude towards settlements.
Yossi, as you know, that's one of the platforms of this roadmap, and yet we had Ariel Sharon in "Ha'aretz" newspaper saying that some of those places, meaning area where there are settlements -- Bethlehem, Shiloh, Bet El, saying that they would have to be let go. And then in the "Jerusalem Post" he said, I'm asking you, do you see such a thing as possibility, basically, rejecting the notion.
Now what kind of message is that sending?
SHAIN: I think we are jumping too fast into an issue that certainly will be negotiated in this dialogue. A very basic issue in this dialogue is how we bring some degree of calmness in the territory and the ability of the new Palestinian Authority, which is wrestling with its own way, with its own authority to really enforce law and order, to what extent we can really reach a point when there is a new spirit in the region, especially I would say among Palestinians, to bring a sort of a monopoly over the means of violence, that will bring some degree of calmness, and then we can discuss the other issues.
I also will argue that all the newspapers, columns, et cetera, regarding to what extent Sharon is ready for concessions on issues of the settlements are absolutely premature. There is an issue which is a serious issue of the settlements. But before you start, you really need to have good groundbreaking rules, which is violence will no longer be accepted, and all the ideas that Hamas, Islamic Jihad or forces that come from the PLO itself can hold arms and can have whatever they want -- some degree of freedom in using these arms, whether it's terrorist attacks and so on -- much cease, because otherwise, the whole process will be spoiled very quickly.
HOLMES: OK. Dr. Bahbah, on that same sort of line, when we're talking about the genuineness of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, to allow some sort of process to go ahead. There are those who also say that Israel is not helping when it comes to a group like Hamas by assassinating leaders by missile from the air, and carrying out raids that we've been seeing at the moment in Gaza. And things like that. Is that -- what's that doing to the prospect of peace?
BAHBAH: Well, I mean, there has to be a beginning of a new process. The beginning of a new process means that those attacks, either by Palestinians or Israelis, should stop. You're going to see an eruption of violence, particularly when peace talks begin, and I think for those who want the eventual resolution of the conflict, both on the Israeli as well as the Palestinian side, they have to understand that violence is going to erupt. It cannot be trapped.
If you recall, during the Oslo talks, Yitzhak Rabin was persistent in his follow-through with the peace negotiation, despite acts of violence. And there has to be a willingness on both sides. And since the Israelis do have the upper hand, I think the Israelis can do a lot. They can withdraw from Palestinian territories reoccupied by the Israelis. They can stop attacking the Gaza Strip and the West Bank from the air. A lot can be done on both sides.
The key is to keep one's eyes on the final objective, which is a final, comprehensive settlement that includes the establishment of a Palestinian state by 2005 and peace and security for Israel. The Palestinians are ready to do that.
HOLMES: Professor Shain, there's an interesting point raised there by the doctor, and that is there are those who say there will be violence when this eventually starts being discussed in any degree of seriousness. How determined do you think -- in what sort of position is Ariel Sharon to hold fire when and if that happens, and to not respond, given his position in Likud?
SHAIN: I think it's absolutely unacceptable in the Israel minds and in the Israeli government, if we will go back to the Oslo pattern, that there will be negotiations alongside terror.
I agree that that was the pattern during Oslo, and that was a colossal failure of the Oslo peace process, which eventually led to its collapse altogether, because there was an assumption out there that we can talk and we can have violence.
Sharon will not accept -- let me just finish. Sharon will not accept, and I think the Israeli public will not accept.
We know, and we know these results from the Israeli elections, that the Israeli public is ready for very painful concessions and territorial exchanges, but the Israeli public also sent a message that they want to see cessation of violence altogether. And I think that's the message that Sharon is absolutely committed to.
HOLMES: Is being in Gaza at the moment a cessation of violence?
SHAIN: The point is, right now if you have mortar shells coming from Gaza into Israeli cities inside the '67 boundaries, Sharon does not have a choice but to react.
Now, to what extent the new Palestinian Authority will really have ability to control that and really will declare itself completely committed to a peace without any violence and the proliferation of weapons among other Palestinian factions who are not committed to this process and already declared that they're going to resist that. That's the big challenge.
HOLMES: But, Bishara, I'll let you have your say, too, but I also wanted to put this to you: an Israeli columnist today said that there's, in his words, no majority, not at the top echelons in America and not in the top echelons in the Israeli government for a hard-nosed plan leading to an agreement. That's from an Israeli newspaper today. Is that something that you suspect?
BAHBAH: You mean on the United States part?
HOLMES: The United States and Israeli part, that there is not a majority, a complete and utter willingness at the higher levels of either government.
BAHBAH: You know the easiest part is to absolutely do nothing and claim that you are doing something in order to achieve a final resolution to the conflict. There is no question about that.
I think there has to be a solid commitment on the administration's part, as well as the Israelis and the Palestinians, in order to pursue this process. It's going to take difficult decisions. It's going to take unpopular decisions. We know that the United States reelection campaigns are going to go into full force in November. The president is going to be under a lot of pressure. The economy is not doing as well.
And, therefore, the distraction is there, and it's easy to find an excuse not to pursue it. Now going -- excuse me -- going back on the other issue of violence, a comparison has to be made.
I believe that the Palestinian Authority, under the leadership of Abu Mazen, is committed not to use violence in order to pursue it's political objectives. Now, whether Hamas or another group is willing to do so is obviously there, and they will try their best to disrupt the process.
Now, give the Palestinians the tools in order to stop that process and they will do it. They say there are 30,000 Palestinian police officers. They are unarmed, they are under-run, they have no infrastructure, they barely have any weapons.
So, what needs to be done and differentiated here is that the willingness of the government versus their -- the tools that they have available to them, which are almost nonexistent. For Abu Mazen to go to the meeting with Sharon tomorrow, he has to have the permission of the Israeli authority to even travel. So how can a government function and how can he be held responsible if he does not have the tools to implement what needs to be done?
HOLMES: Professor Shain, we'll give you an opportunity to respond to that. It is a valid point. There is no security infrastructure to speak of in the West Bank, certainly, and a limited access in Gaza. At the same time, speak as you will to the problems of dissent within the Palestinian Authority itself? There's Arafat versus Abu Mazen, Arafat versus Dahlan. There are problems.
SHAIN: This is a very big issue, because if you don't have a cohesive leadership among the Palestinians and if Arafat is still pulling the strings, and if indeed, and it's a very interesting sign this morning when we see Saeb Erakat leaving the negotiations because he is presumed to be by Abu Mazen as loyal to Arafat rather than loyal to his leadership.
This is a very important factor, because if Abu Mazen manages somehow to create a new leadership, completely committed, I have no doubt that he will find a very attentive ear in Jerusalem, in Sharon's office.
Sharon is not eager to lead this government completely into West Bank or with incursion to Gaza. I disagree. He fought in his party, against his party, with the argument that he is committed to a Palestinian state. His policies, however, are conditioned that he will no longer have to do this peace process along the lines that were done in Oslo, which many Israelis now believe was a mistake as it was proceeded.
So it that respect, I agree with the vision that all sides must be committed, and I think the greatest challenge however is really on the part of the Palestinians to assert their leadership on the many factions, including especially in the old, outgoing elite of Yasser Arafat and his own entourage. The question is to what extent Abu Mazen will have this power, and this is a very, very important moment.
HOLMES: OK. Dr. Bahbah, one time that I'd like to get from you too is, when it comes to the roadmap moving ahead, there is one thing that must happen, and that must be a genuine U.S. willingness, a willingness on the part of the Bush administration to push it, to put pressure on.
Do you think that the roadmap has enough internal deadlines included in it and consequences for not meeting them?
BAHBAH: You know, actually, I was reading the roadmap before I got here, and unfortunately, phase one of the roadmap expires this month, and we know that was just initiated two weeks ago.
And therefore, on one hand I'd like to be optimistic and say yes, there are deadlines and we'd like them followed. Realistically, I think if we look at the longer period, which is 2005, that is an achievable goal here.
Now, will the United States commit the resources to that? We do have in my opinion a window of opportunity between now and November, when the reelection process begins and when the United States is still in Iraq, because obviously the United States wants to carry favor with the Arabs, wants to appease their European allies, and therefore pushing for the peace process is good for U.S. world image after the invasion of Iraq.
And so this opportunity is critical. Come November, it will be very difficult for the United States to be pushing seriously for this roadmap to be achieved and for the deadlines to be met.
HOLMES: Professor Shain, we've only got a couple of seconds left. I want to give you the last word. Are you optimistic?
SHAIN: I -- it's not a question of optimism or pessimism. I think this is a very, very long process now. We are not entering into quick fixes. This quagmire that we are now entering or we are now facing is a result of two bloody years in which the Palestinians in fact did not accept the proposals of Ehud Barak at Camp David.
This is a new opportunity, because we also went through a tremendous shift in geopolitical order with the idea that terrorism will no longer be part of the international politics and we will no longer be tolerating it, including in the Arab world as we see it today in Saudi Arabia.
I hope this will give signs to the Palestinian Authority that this time it really will be one of the last chances in this very torturous peace process, and I have the hunch that the Israeli government, if it will see that really there is seriousness in the Palestinian leadership and real action on the ground to tame all those terrorist groups, will really respond adequately.
So I am -- I will say that I am slightly optimistic, but I will keep my optimism kind of like in check.
HOLMES: Yossi Shain, thanks very much for being on the program, Georgetown University. Dr. Bishara Bahbah, Palestinian delegate to Middle East talks in the past and an analyst. We appreciate you both for your input today. Thanks so much. I'm sure we'll talk again soon.
BAHBAH: Thank you.
SHAIN: Thank you.
HOLMES: And that is all from Q&A for this day. Please stay tuned for more news.
END
TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE ORDER FROM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 16, 2003 - 14:30:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The Israeli and Palestinian prime ministers scheduled to hold a groundbreaking meeting. It is the first Israeli-Palestinian summit in more than two years. On the table: the roadmap for peace. Will the two leaders, however, be able to see eye to eye?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We hope the negotiation with Mr. Sharon will be positive.
ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MIN. (through translator): Israel on this subject will have to make moves that will be painful, but there will be no compromise on security.
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECY. OF STATE: This is the time for both sides to be prepared to make compromises, to step forward, to take steps that will move us down a path to peace.
HOLMES: On this edition of Q&A, will this meeting put the Middle East on the roadmap to peace?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
And welcome to Q&A.
With the upcoming talks between the Israeli and Palestinian prime ministers, what can we expect? Both have made their positions very public, but could there be a surprise this weekend?
With their views, we have two guests well-versed in the region. From Washington, we're joined by Yossi Shain. He's a professor of government at Georgetown University, also a professor of politics at Tel Aviv University. And from Phoenix, Arizona, Bishara Bahbah. He was a member of the Palestinian delegation to the peace talks in the 1990's, also formerly the associate director of Harvard's Middle East Institute.
Dr. Bahbah, I'll begin with you. What do you expect to come from these talks? Are you hopeful? Many people are setting the bar very low.
BISHARA BAHBAH, FMR. PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Well, actually I wold accept the notion that much should be expected form this summit meeting.
However, the fact that it is being held after two years of violence on both sides and a complete rupture of the peace process is very significant.
HOLMES: Dr. Shain, Yossi, if I could put this to you, do you believe -- and I know you live in both the United States and in Israel. Do you believe that there is a true willingness, not on the part of Israelis, but on behalf of the Israeli leadership, to see this through, to actually make this happen?
YOSSI SHAIN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I absolutely believe that the Israeli leadership is eager to enter a dialogue with the Palestinians that will lead to cessation of violence and the beginning of new dialogue on the peace process itself.
It is essential for the Israeli leadership, and I believe that Ariel Sharon is absolutely committed to the point of negotiating in good faith. I don't buy all the ideas that the Israeli prime minister or the Israeli government is taking this dialogue lightly.
HOLMES: I'm curious as to your thoughts on something that has been discussed extensively in the Israeli media in the past week, and that is the attitude towards settlements.
Yossi, as you know, that's one of the platforms of this roadmap, and yet we had Ariel Sharon in "Ha'aretz" newspaper saying that some of those places, meaning area where there are settlements -- Bethlehem, Shiloh, Bet El, saying that they would have to be let go. And then in the "Jerusalem Post" he said, I'm asking you, do you see such a thing as possibility, basically, rejecting the notion.
Now what kind of message is that sending?
SHAIN: I think we are jumping too fast into an issue that certainly will be negotiated in this dialogue. A very basic issue in this dialogue is how we bring some degree of calmness in the territory and the ability of the new Palestinian Authority, which is wrestling with its own way, with its own authority to really enforce law and order, to what extent we can really reach a point when there is a new spirit in the region, especially I would say among Palestinians, to bring a sort of a monopoly over the means of violence, that will bring some degree of calmness, and then we can discuss the other issues.
I also will argue that all the newspapers, columns, et cetera, regarding to what extent Sharon is ready for concessions on issues of the settlements are absolutely premature. There is an issue which is a serious issue of the settlements. But before you start, you really need to have good groundbreaking rules, which is violence will no longer be accepted, and all the ideas that Hamas, Islamic Jihad or forces that come from the PLO itself can hold arms and can have whatever they want -- some degree of freedom in using these arms, whether it's terrorist attacks and so on -- much cease, because otherwise, the whole process will be spoiled very quickly.
HOLMES: OK. Dr. Bahbah, on that same sort of line, when we're talking about the genuineness of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, to allow some sort of process to go ahead. There are those who also say that Israel is not helping when it comes to a group like Hamas by assassinating leaders by missile from the air, and carrying out raids that we've been seeing at the moment in Gaza. And things like that. Is that -- what's that doing to the prospect of peace?
BAHBAH: Well, I mean, there has to be a beginning of a new process. The beginning of a new process means that those attacks, either by Palestinians or Israelis, should stop. You're going to see an eruption of violence, particularly when peace talks begin, and I think for those who want the eventual resolution of the conflict, both on the Israeli as well as the Palestinian side, they have to understand that violence is going to erupt. It cannot be trapped.
If you recall, during the Oslo talks, Yitzhak Rabin was persistent in his follow-through with the peace negotiation, despite acts of violence. And there has to be a willingness on both sides. And since the Israelis do have the upper hand, I think the Israelis can do a lot. They can withdraw from Palestinian territories reoccupied by the Israelis. They can stop attacking the Gaza Strip and the West Bank from the air. A lot can be done on both sides.
The key is to keep one's eyes on the final objective, which is a final, comprehensive settlement that includes the establishment of a Palestinian state by 2005 and peace and security for Israel. The Palestinians are ready to do that.
HOLMES: Professor Shain, there's an interesting point raised there by the doctor, and that is there are those who say there will be violence when this eventually starts being discussed in any degree of seriousness. How determined do you think -- in what sort of position is Ariel Sharon to hold fire when and if that happens, and to not respond, given his position in Likud?
SHAIN: I think it's absolutely unacceptable in the Israel minds and in the Israeli government, if we will go back to the Oslo pattern, that there will be negotiations alongside terror.
I agree that that was the pattern during Oslo, and that was a colossal failure of the Oslo peace process, which eventually led to its collapse altogether, because there was an assumption out there that we can talk and we can have violence.
Sharon will not accept -- let me just finish. Sharon will not accept, and I think the Israeli public will not accept.
We know, and we know these results from the Israeli elections, that the Israeli public is ready for very painful concessions and territorial exchanges, but the Israeli public also sent a message that they want to see cessation of violence altogether. And I think that's the message that Sharon is absolutely committed to.
HOLMES: Is being in Gaza at the moment a cessation of violence?
SHAIN: The point is, right now if you have mortar shells coming from Gaza into Israeli cities inside the '67 boundaries, Sharon does not have a choice but to react.
Now, to what extent the new Palestinian Authority will really have ability to control that and really will declare itself completely committed to a peace without any violence and the proliferation of weapons among other Palestinian factions who are not committed to this process and already declared that they're going to resist that. That's the big challenge.
HOLMES: But, Bishara, I'll let you have your say, too, but I also wanted to put this to you: an Israeli columnist today said that there's, in his words, no majority, not at the top echelons in America and not in the top echelons in the Israeli government for a hard-nosed plan leading to an agreement. That's from an Israeli newspaper today. Is that something that you suspect?
BAHBAH: You mean on the United States part?
HOLMES: The United States and Israeli part, that there is not a majority, a complete and utter willingness at the higher levels of either government.
BAHBAH: You know the easiest part is to absolutely do nothing and claim that you are doing something in order to achieve a final resolution to the conflict. There is no question about that.
I think there has to be a solid commitment on the administration's part, as well as the Israelis and the Palestinians, in order to pursue this process. It's going to take difficult decisions. It's going to take unpopular decisions. We know that the United States reelection campaigns are going to go into full force in November. The president is going to be under a lot of pressure. The economy is not doing as well.
And, therefore, the distraction is there, and it's easy to find an excuse not to pursue it. Now going -- excuse me -- going back on the other issue of violence, a comparison has to be made.
I believe that the Palestinian Authority, under the leadership of Abu Mazen, is committed not to use violence in order to pursue it's political objectives. Now, whether Hamas or another group is willing to do so is obviously there, and they will try their best to disrupt the process.
Now, give the Palestinians the tools in order to stop that process and they will do it. They say there are 30,000 Palestinian police officers. They are unarmed, they are under-run, they have no infrastructure, they barely have any weapons.
So, what needs to be done and differentiated here is that the willingness of the government versus their -- the tools that they have available to them, which are almost nonexistent. For Abu Mazen to go to the meeting with Sharon tomorrow, he has to have the permission of the Israeli authority to even travel. So how can a government function and how can he be held responsible if he does not have the tools to implement what needs to be done?
HOLMES: Professor Shain, we'll give you an opportunity to respond to that. It is a valid point. There is no security infrastructure to speak of in the West Bank, certainly, and a limited access in Gaza. At the same time, speak as you will to the problems of dissent within the Palestinian Authority itself? There's Arafat versus Abu Mazen, Arafat versus Dahlan. There are problems.
SHAIN: This is a very big issue, because if you don't have a cohesive leadership among the Palestinians and if Arafat is still pulling the strings, and if indeed, and it's a very interesting sign this morning when we see Saeb Erakat leaving the negotiations because he is presumed to be by Abu Mazen as loyal to Arafat rather than loyal to his leadership.
This is a very important factor, because if Abu Mazen manages somehow to create a new leadership, completely committed, I have no doubt that he will find a very attentive ear in Jerusalem, in Sharon's office.
Sharon is not eager to lead this government completely into West Bank or with incursion to Gaza. I disagree. He fought in his party, against his party, with the argument that he is committed to a Palestinian state. His policies, however, are conditioned that he will no longer have to do this peace process along the lines that were done in Oslo, which many Israelis now believe was a mistake as it was proceeded.
So it that respect, I agree with the vision that all sides must be committed, and I think the greatest challenge however is really on the part of the Palestinians to assert their leadership on the many factions, including especially in the old, outgoing elite of Yasser Arafat and his own entourage. The question is to what extent Abu Mazen will have this power, and this is a very, very important moment.
HOLMES: OK. Dr. Bahbah, one time that I'd like to get from you too is, when it comes to the roadmap moving ahead, there is one thing that must happen, and that must be a genuine U.S. willingness, a willingness on the part of the Bush administration to push it, to put pressure on.
Do you think that the roadmap has enough internal deadlines included in it and consequences for not meeting them?
BAHBAH: You know, actually, I was reading the roadmap before I got here, and unfortunately, phase one of the roadmap expires this month, and we know that was just initiated two weeks ago.
And therefore, on one hand I'd like to be optimistic and say yes, there are deadlines and we'd like them followed. Realistically, I think if we look at the longer period, which is 2005, that is an achievable goal here.
Now, will the United States commit the resources to that? We do have in my opinion a window of opportunity between now and November, when the reelection process begins and when the United States is still in Iraq, because obviously the United States wants to carry favor with the Arabs, wants to appease their European allies, and therefore pushing for the peace process is good for U.S. world image after the invasion of Iraq.
And so this opportunity is critical. Come November, it will be very difficult for the United States to be pushing seriously for this roadmap to be achieved and for the deadlines to be met.
HOLMES: Professor Shain, we've only got a couple of seconds left. I want to give you the last word. Are you optimistic?
SHAIN: I -- it's not a question of optimism or pessimism. I think this is a very, very long process now. We are not entering into quick fixes. This quagmire that we are now entering or we are now facing is a result of two bloody years in which the Palestinians in fact did not accept the proposals of Ehud Barak at Camp David.
This is a new opportunity, because we also went through a tremendous shift in geopolitical order with the idea that terrorism will no longer be part of the international politics and we will no longer be tolerating it, including in the Arab world as we see it today in Saudi Arabia.
I hope this will give signs to the Palestinian Authority that this time it really will be one of the last chances in this very torturous peace process, and I have the hunch that the Israeli government, if it will see that really there is seriousness in the Palestinian leadership and real action on the ground to tame all those terrorist groups, will really respond adequately.
So I am -- I will say that I am slightly optimistic, but I will keep my optimism kind of like in check.
HOLMES: Yossi Shain, thanks very much for being on the program, Georgetown University. Dr. Bishara Bahbah, Palestinian delegate to Middle East talks in the past and an analyst. We appreciate you both for your input today. Thanks so much. I'm sure we'll talk again soon.
BAHBAH: Thank you.
SHAIN: Thank you.
HOLMES: And that is all from Q&A for this day. Please stay tuned for more news.
END
TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE ORDER FROM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
