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American Morning
Obsessed with 'The Matrix'
Aired May 20, 2003 - 08:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Producers of "The Matrix Reloaded" are celebrating a record take at the box office. The sequel broke a number of records in its opening weekend, but this hugely successful movie franchise may have a dark side.
Since the original "The Matrix" was released in 1999, it's been used as a defense for several violent crimes, including the case of a 19-year-old from Virginia who allegedly murdered his parents in February.
The attorney for Josh Cook says he's obsessed with the film's virtual reality world and she plans to use "The Matrix" as part of his defense.
Cook's attorney, Rachel Fierro, joins us from Washington to talk about her strategy.
Your client, Josh Cook, allegedly killed, shot his parents to death, shooting his dad seven times, alleged, and then called police twice in a cool manner and told them about the crime.
RACHEL FIERRO, CLIENT OBSESSED WITH "THE MATRIX": That's correct.
CHOI: Millions of people have seen this movie and not used it as a defense, and they haven't actually killed anyone. Millions have seen it. So how can you use this as a defense?
FIERRO: Well, it was clear after an investigation of the facts of this case and after a careful review of the evidence that Joshua Cook was obsessed with the movie "The Matrix." At the time that he allegedly shot both of his parents, he was in possession of many of the props from the movie, "The Matrix." He also was in possession of a 12 gauge pump action shotgun used by the main character of "The Matrix."
And based on those facts, it was our decision to move forward and put emotion before the court to request the court to provide us with a psychiatrist to be able to evaluate the mental status of Mr. Cook at the time of the offense occurred to determine whether he was sane, that is, to know whether he knew the difference between right and wrong at the time of the offense occurred.
CHOI: And what was the psychiatrist's evaluation? What did she come up with?
FIERRO: It's, she's currently conducting the evaluation. We have not received the report as of yet.
CHOI: All right, I want to read you a statement that Warner Brothers came out with. We contacted Warner Brothers, the studio behind "The Matrix" and the sequel, and they had this to say about the incidents linked to this film: "Our hearts go out to the families and friends of those who have been victims of violent crime whenever we hear of such events. However, any attempt to link these crimes with a motion picture or any other art form is disturbing and irresponsible."
So, do you think Warner Brothers is responsible for your client's behavior?
FIERRO: No. I'm not saying that the movie made him kill his parents. I'm saying that to Joshua Cook, the movie was more than just entertainment. To Joshua Cook, it had an influencing factor to his decisions. But it was certainly only one of many other elements that contributed to his decision. Obviously, the movie impacts people differently and to Joshua Cook, it was more than entertainment. And that's why we've petitioned the court for a psychiatrist, to be able to evaluate his mental health.
CHOI: Do you expect this to go to trial? And, if so, when?
FIERRO: We can't make that determination right now until we have the evaluation back from the psychiatrist. But the trial is scheduled for June 25th and June 26th at this time.
CHOI: All right, Rachel Fierro, thanks so much for being with us.
Sniper suspects Lee Boyd Malvo is also said to be obsessed with "The Matrix."
And our own legal expert Jeffrey Toobin is here with his on Matrix defense strategy -- and, Jeff, we want to note that Warner Brothers is part of the parent company that owns CNN.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely.
CHOI: Let's make that clear, first of all.
TOOBIN: Part of our corporate family.
CHOI: Yes.
So what do you think about this Matrix defense?
TOOBIN: I think it's generally a pretty weak defense because, you know, what happens is people who are insane, who are evil, who have problems independent, they fixate on what's ever in the popular culture. "The Matrix" is something that's around now, but it's a question of causation.
They are crazy already and then they fixate on what's in popular culture. This comes up often. It's not just "The Matrix." You had "The Clockwork Orange" supposedly linked to things in the '70s. You had Marilyn Manson blamed for the Columbine killings.
It's not so much the movies or the entertainment that causes the crime, it's that crazy people fixate on what's in popular culture and then claim it as an explanation.
CHOI: Right, but how does this play out in court? I mean does it work?
TOOBIN: It usually plays out pretty badly for the point you made in your question, millions of people see this movie, millions of people, or hundreds of thousands listen to Marilyn Manson and they don't go out -- and they don't go and do anything. The question is what do you bring to the artistic experience? What is in your head already?
So these defenses almost invariably fail, although, you know, there was a case in Ohio not too long ago about a woman who committed a murder and then claimed that she was insane, including obsessed with "The Matrix," and she actually was found insane because psychiatrists evaluated her and found her insane. "The Matrix" had nothing to do with it. It was just this was an insane woman who happened to fixate on "The Matrix."
CHOI: And we're hearing now that sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo actually wrote, "Free Yourself" from "The Matrix," scrawled it on his jail cell and then he told the "Washington Post" -- or, apparently, the "Washington Post" had learned that he told detectives he loves the movie "The Matrix."
So it sounds like he's using it, as well.
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, you know, bad people go to the movies, too, and they can have favorite movies and they can claim to be influenced by things. But ultimately, you know, people are responsible for their own actions and, you know, movie makers, we blame them for a lot in our culture, but I mean they are ultimately not responsible for what people do once they see it. You know, it's just not part of their responsibility, legally or even morally, I think.
CHOI: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you so much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 20, 2003 - 08:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Producers of "The Matrix Reloaded" are celebrating a record take at the box office. The sequel broke a number of records in its opening weekend, but this hugely successful movie franchise may have a dark side.
Since the original "The Matrix" was released in 1999, it's been used as a defense for several violent crimes, including the case of a 19-year-old from Virginia who allegedly murdered his parents in February.
The attorney for Josh Cook says he's obsessed with the film's virtual reality world and she plans to use "The Matrix" as part of his defense.
Cook's attorney, Rachel Fierro, joins us from Washington to talk about her strategy.
Your client, Josh Cook, allegedly killed, shot his parents to death, shooting his dad seven times, alleged, and then called police twice in a cool manner and told them about the crime.
RACHEL FIERRO, CLIENT OBSESSED WITH "THE MATRIX": That's correct.
CHOI: Millions of people have seen this movie and not used it as a defense, and they haven't actually killed anyone. Millions have seen it. So how can you use this as a defense?
FIERRO: Well, it was clear after an investigation of the facts of this case and after a careful review of the evidence that Joshua Cook was obsessed with the movie "The Matrix." At the time that he allegedly shot both of his parents, he was in possession of many of the props from the movie, "The Matrix." He also was in possession of a 12 gauge pump action shotgun used by the main character of "The Matrix."
And based on those facts, it was our decision to move forward and put emotion before the court to request the court to provide us with a psychiatrist to be able to evaluate the mental status of Mr. Cook at the time of the offense occurred to determine whether he was sane, that is, to know whether he knew the difference between right and wrong at the time of the offense occurred.
CHOI: And what was the psychiatrist's evaluation? What did she come up with?
FIERRO: It's, she's currently conducting the evaluation. We have not received the report as of yet.
CHOI: All right, I want to read you a statement that Warner Brothers came out with. We contacted Warner Brothers, the studio behind "The Matrix" and the sequel, and they had this to say about the incidents linked to this film: "Our hearts go out to the families and friends of those who have been victims of violent crime whenever we hear of such events. However, any attempt to link these crimes with a motion picture or any other art form is disturbing and irresponsible."
So, do you think Warner Brothers is responsible for your client's behavior?
FIERRO: No. I'm not saying that the movie made him kill his parents. I'm saying that to Joshua Cook, the movie was more than just entertainment. To Joshua Cook, it had an influencing factor to his decisions. But it was certainly only one of many other elements that contributed to his decision. Obviously, the movie impacts people differently and to Joshua Cook, it was more than entertainment. And that's why we've petitioned the court for a psychiatrist, to be able to evaluate his mental health.
CHOI: Do you expect this to go to trial? And, if so, when?
FIERRO: We can't make that determination right now until we have the evaluation back from the psychiatrist. But the trial is scheduled for June 25th and June 26th at this time.
CHOI: All right, Rachel Fierro, thanks so much for being with us.
Sniper suspects Lee Boyd Malvo is also said to be obsessed with "The Matrix."
And our own legal expert Jeffrey Toobin is here with his on Matrix defense strategy -- and, Jeff, we want to note that Warner Brothers is part of the parent company that owns CNN.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely.
CHOI: Let's make that clear, first of all.
TOOBIN: Part of our corporate family.
CHOI: Yes.
So what do you think about this Matrix defense?
TOOBIN: I think it's generally a pretty weak defense because, you know, what happens is people who are insane, who are evil, who have problems independent, they fixate on what's ever in the popular culture. "The Matrix" is something that's around now, but it's a question of causation.
They are crazy already and then they fixate on what's in popular culture. This comes up often. It's not just "The Matrix." You had "The Clockwork Orange" supposedly linked to things in the '70s. You had Marilyn Manson blamed for the Columbine killings.
It's not so much the movies or the entertainment that causes the crime, it's that crazy people fixate on what's in popular culture and then claim it as an explanation.
CHOI: Right, but how does this play out in court? I mean does it work?
TOOBIN: It usually plays out pretty badly for the point you made in your question, millions of people see this movie, millions of people, or hundreds of thousands listen to Marilyn Manson and they don't go out -- and they don't go and do anything. The question is what do you bring to the artistic experience? What is in your head already?
So these defenses almost invariably fail, although, you know, there was a case in Ohio not too long ago about a woman who committed a murder and then claimed that she was insane, including obsessed with "The Matrix," and she actually was found insane because psychiatrists evaluated her and found her insane. "The Matrix" had nothing to do with it. It was just this was an insane woman who happened to fixate on "The Matrix."
CHOI: And we're hearing now that sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo actually wrote, "Free Yourself" from "The Matrix," scrawled it on his jail cell and then he told the "Washington Post" -- or, apparently, the "Washington Post" had learned that he told detectives he loves the movie "The Matrix."
So it sounds like he's using it, as well.
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, you know, bad people go to the movies, too, and they can have favorite movies and they can claim to be influenced by things. But ultimately, you know, people are responsible for their own actions and, you know, movie makers, we blame them for a lot in our culture, but I mean they are ultimately not responsible for what people do once they see it. You know, it's just not part of their responsibility, legally or even morally, I think.
CHOI: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you so much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
