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CNN Live Today
Alleged Al Qaeda Tape
Aired May 21, 2003 - 11:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour on CNN, a new message said to be from Osama bin Laden's top deputy. It was broadcast by the Arab channel Al-Jazeera this morning, and our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, who is joining us here in Atlanta, is here to listen to the audio recording.
Nic, plenty of doubts still at this hour as to whether or not that Ayman al-Zawahiri's voice.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There are doubts, Leon.
And one of the reasons that there are doubts is because that this tape, the voice sounds much younger than Ayman al-Zawahiri, there was a lot of background noise; the accent, however, is an Egyptian accent. Ayman al-Zawahiri is an Egyptian, so perhaps there's an indication that it may be him, but certainly The tape very heavily edited. We're not yet convinced, and certainly U.S. intelligence officials say they need much more time to analyze it, to figure that out. The message, a call to arms for Muslims in the Middle East, talking about the war in Iraq, talking about the countries around Iraq -- Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar.
All these countries, telling the Muslims that while their leaders in those countries said they oppose the war in Iraq, they actually led the coalition use the airports, use their seaports, use their countries to allow troops to pass through, essentially saying that these leaders in these countries are now unmasked for their true intentions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): ... look at these disbelievers (ph) offering services and bases, letting ships go through their canals and waters and they let planes go through their airspace. Not just that, but also they can offer them their airports and also letting their army go through their land to attack Arab lands. In Saudi Arabia, you can see, and Kuwait, you can see planes taking off and army taking off from Kuwait and Qatar, letting this happen (ph) and Bahrain, allowing troops and boats going through it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Now, unlike messages we've heard from Al Qaeda in the past, not calling on the Muslims in those countries to attack their leaders there, but calling on them specifically to attack the interest of the United States of Great Britain, Australia, and for the first time hearing a call for an attack on the interests of Norway as well. The message there also to the people in Iraq, saying that the supporters of Al Qaeda have in the past, as he says, or Muslims have in the past been able to throw out the crusaders, as he called them, from his countries before, telling the people of Iraq, therefore, that they have support from Muslims in the region.
So a message here perhaps, Leon, with a very clear intent, attack these British, United States, Norwegian, Australian interests with the aim of throwing them all out of the region.
HARRIS: This does confirm what we've been hearing from the international intelligence community, saying they've been picking up increased chatter amongst terrorist, and this would seem to corroborate that. Is there anything on this tape that would give any information, first of all, about Osama bin Laden and his fate, or his whereabouts even? And is there anything on there that tells us when this tape was actually made?
ROBERTSON: Nothing essentially on Osama bin Laden, interestingly, because the tape does seem to refer to post the war in Iraq. So perhaps that's the best time reference. No reference there to the attacks in Saudi Arabia, and Morocco in the last week or so. So perhaps the tape recorded before then. Perhaps there is more of this tape we have yet to hear. One of the things we know about this tape, very heavily edited. Is there more that we could learn from the rest of the material once we may hear it?
HARRIS: All right, let's keep that thought in mind. We're going to bring in now our senior editor Octavia Nasr for some more perspective on this. Octavia from CNN International.
You listened to this tape that was played on the network. You have told me that you've heard Ayman Al-Zawahari's voice plenty of times before. What do you make of what we've heard so far? Do you believe this is his voice?
OCTAVIA NASR, SR. EDITOR: Well, first of all, it's very hard to say for sure if this is his voice or someone else's voice. As Nic said, the accent is Egyptian, so that's very consistent with Ayman Al- Zawahari being Egyptian. Whether it's him or not, we will leave that for the experts.
Now at the end of this message, there was a very interesting remark. He said that Muslim hearts will be pleased very soon, meaning that he's projecting some attacks. When I spoke with Al-Jazeera editors, they explained to me that they cannot pin it down to a date. They do think that this was tape recorded either right after the end of the war in Iraq, or as recently as last week, but they think that projection for future attacks could be the Riyadh explosions that we saw, that the suicide attacks that we saw last week.
HARRIS: That's a point I want to get either you or Nic to address. Because Sheila MacVicar was with us last hour, and talked about the fact that in the past what we have seen, is we've seen an announcement like this issued, and then a spate of attacks has followed. In this case, we've seen the attacks first, and then the tape being delivered. Anything to be read into that? NASR: Well, it's hard right now. You do have to understand that Al Qaeda is on the run. It is very disoriented, if you will. There are questions about why is it that Al-Zawahari that is sending out this message and not Osama bin Laden himself? Are they separated? Is Osama bin Laden dead? Is he injured? Is he not somewhere where he can reach out? So lots of question marks about Al Qaeda and how organized it is and how accessible it is. So I personally do not question that, why the tape came after or before, or is there going to be attacks in the future? Sure. Everybody is saying we have to be on the alert, on the outlook for more attacks. I do not question that as, why is the message coming after the attacks, if indeed he was referring to the Riyadh bombings.
HARRIS: As we are talking here, President Bush is right now in New London, Connecticut. He is going to be addressing the Coast Guard academy. You see him there standing with homeland security chief Tom Ridge. And once the president begins his remarks, and if Chief Ridge has any remarks, we'll go there live. We expect there may be possible some words to come on the topic of terror this morning, as we've been discussing it here.
But, Nic, let me ask you about this point Octavia here just raised. Does this delivery of this tape or anything thereon say anything at all about how Al Qaeda is now constituted?
ROBERTSON: Again, very, very few clues on those kinds of issues. And perhaps that's one of the reasons that Al Qaeda delivers the message in an audio form, and not a video form. Perhaps a video form will give away how these leaders look now. Maybe they've changed the way that they look.
We know that in the past, Al Qaeda has after some events, for example, the Bali bombing, released a message very soon after. We know that they've release messages before events have happened, and perhaps taken in combination with this high level of chatter, the increased threat in that region, the increased threat that is perceived here as here, that this is going to add certainly to the concern that perhaps something is yet still about to happen. It has been so many times been the modus operandi for Al Qaeda.
HARRIS: We have to over and ask Octavia this one last question. Nic made note of the fact that there seems to be quite a bit of evidence on this tape. Does that tell you anything?
NASR: Yes. This whole thing could be fabricated. There's no indication -- there's no consistency. When you hear it in Arabic, it is very interesting, because you can feel the cuts. The mention of the Suez Canal, for example. It says the canal, and then it's cut. We assume that it is the Suez Canal, because it's talking about the canal in Egypt. It has heavy editing. You hear noises in the background. You even hear children in the background. So it's very interesting how this whole thing was put together. It could have been put together in the streets of Cairo for all we know.
So yes, it raises the question if this is authentic, if it is indeed Al-Zawahari. I guess we'll wait and see. HARRIS: Very interesting, and with your engineering background, as you know, that's going to give investigators plenty to work with.
ROBERTSON: Indeed.
HARRIS: Thank you very much, Octavia Nasr and Nic Robertson, always good to have both of you with us.
All right, we're going to move on this morning. The U.S. intelligence community is going to analyze the audio on that tape and then try to figure out whether or not it's genuine.
Our national security correspondent David Ensor has been talking with his sources this morning.
David, what have you learned?
DAVID ENSOR, NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Leon, many of the same things the two correspondents have been addressing. As you say, U.S. intelligence officials are conducting a technical analysis of this audiotape, broadcast Wednesday on Al-Jazeera, purporting to be the voice of Ayman Al-Zawahari. It could be him. One official said, and we may have a better idea in a day or two.
U.S. officials are noting that, as Nic said, in the past, the release of the tape of an Al Qaeda leader has sometimes been followed by a major attack or attacks. They often precede attacks, often but not always, one official noted.
If it is Zawahiri, he may have chosen to record an audio, rather than videotape, officials say, because as Nic noted, it would not show how he may have changed his appearance. It's also easier to produce. Responding to some recent reports, suggestions at least, by some officials overseas, that Al-Zawahari might in fact be dead, one official said to me that he believes it's more likely that Al-Zawahari is still alive.
A different official I spoke to did express some skepticism about whether or not this is the voice of Ayman Al-Zawahari. It sounded like a younger man, perhaps a different person to this individual.
But as I say, the technical analysis will be the real test. That's going to be conducted over the next day or so. We should have some at least judgment call from the U.S. intelligence as to whether this is the voice of Al-Zawahari or not perhaps tomorrow -- Leon.
HARRIS: That mirrors what our Nic Robertson said about the voice sounding like a younger man. So another confirmation of that.
David, you've been reporting for days now that there has been this increase in the chatter level out there. This would seem to corroborate all of that. Does this tape and it's delivery this morning give folks there in Washington any sense that there may be a bigger event, that may be very eminent right now or what?
ENSOR: As Octavia noted, when the tape implies a big event is about to come, it could be talking about the Riyadh bombings that have already occurred. Since the tape doesn't refer to them, or to Morocco, it could have happened before the events in Saudi Arabia. You can't rule out the possibility of additional attacks. And certainly, as you say, there's a lot of other intelligence suggesting additional attacks may be in the offing.
HARRIS: Got you. And finally, real quickly, the background noises that Nic made note of, your experts there in Washington say anything about them, and whether or not they think they will be definitive enough to help them identify where he is?
ENSOR: Well, audio tapes reveal a lot less than videotapes do. You may recall the walkabout Saddam tapes. Those were quite revealing. They showed things about when they were recorded, and they show the claim of having been recorded on a certain date was false. An audiotape is much less revealing. A child crying could be a child anywhere on Earth. Officials do feel that Al-Zawahari and bin Laden are lying very low, and this recording, if it is Al-Zawahari, could have been made in someone's house, where he's concealing himself.
But, you know, it's not probably going to be the very revealing in that regard, this audio tape.
HARRIS: Very interesting. Thank you very much, David. David Ensor in Washington. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 21, 2003 - 11:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour on CNN, a new message said to be from Osama bin Laden's top deputy. It was broadcast by the Arab channel Al-Jazeera this morning, and our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, who is joining us here in Atlanta, is here to listen to the audio recording.
Nic, plenty of doubts still at this hour as to whether or not that Ayman al-Zawahiri's voice.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There are doubts, Leon.
And one of the reasons that there are doubts is because that this tape, the voice sounds much younger than Ayman al-Zawahiri, there was a lot of background noise; the accent, however, is an Egyptian accent. Ayman al-Zawahiri is an Egyptian, so perhaps there's an indication that it may be him, but certainly The tape very heavily edited. We're not yet convinced, and certainly U.S. intelligence officials say they need much more time to analyze it, to figure that out. The message, a call to arms for Muslims in the Middle East, talking about the war in Iraq, talking about the countries around Iraq -- Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar.
All these countries, telling the Muslims that while their leaders in those countries said they oppose the war in Iraq, they actually led the coalition use the airports, use their seaports, use their countries to allow troops to pass through, essentially saying that these leaders in these countries are now unmasked for their true intentions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): ... look at these disbelievers (ph) offering services and bases, letting ships go through their canals and waters and they let planes go through their airspace. Not just that, but also they can offer them their airports and also letting their army go through their land to attack Arab lands. In Saudi Arabia, you can see, and Kuwait, you can see planes taking off and army taking off from Kuwait and Qatar, letting this happen (ph) and Bahrain, allowing troops and boats going through it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Now, unlike messages we've heard from Al Qaeda in the past, not calling on the Muslims in those countries to attack their leaders there, but calling on them specifically to attack the interest of the United States of Great Britain, Australia, and for the first time hearing a call for an attack on the interests of Norway as well. The message there also to the people in Iraq, saying that the supporters of Al Qaeda have in the past, as he says, or Muslims have in the past been able to throw out the crusaders, as he called them, from his countries before, telling the people of Iraq, therefore, that they have support from Muslims in the region.
So a message here perhaps, Leon, with a very clear intent, attack these British, United States, Norwegian, Australian interests with the aim of throwing them all out of the region.
HARRIS: This does confirm what we've been hearing from the international intelligence community, saying they've been picking up increased chatter amongst terrorist, and this would seem to corroborate that. Is there anything on this tape that would give any information, first of all, about Osama bin Laden and his fate, or his whereabouts even? And is there anything on there that tells us when this tape was actually made?
ROBERTSON: Nothing essentially on Osama bin Laden, interestingly, because the tape does seem to refer to post the war in Iraq. So perhaps that's the best time reference. No reference there to the attacks in Saudi Arabia, and Morocco in the last week or so. So perhaps the tape recorded before then. Perhaps there is more of this tape we have yet to hear. One of the things we know about this tape, very heavily edited. Is there more that we could learn from the rest of the material once we may hear it?
HARRIS: All right, let's keep that thought in mind. We're going to bring in now our senior editor Octavia Nasr for some more perspective on this. Octavia from CNN International.
You listened to this tape that was played on the network. You have told me that you've heard Ayman Al-Zawahari's voice plenty of times before. What do you make of what we've heard so far? Do you believe this is his voice?
OCTAVIA NASR, SR. EDITOR: Well, first of all, it's very hard to say for sure if this is his voice or someone else's voice. As Nic said, the accent is Egyptian, so that's very consistent with Ayman Al- Zawahari being Egyptian. Whether it's him or not, we will leave that for the experts.
Now at the end of this message, there was a very interesting remark. He said that Muslim hearts will be pleased very soon, meaning that he's projecting some attacks. When I spoke with Al-Jazeera editors, they explained to me that they cannot pin it down to a date. They do think that this was tape recorded either right after the end of the war in Iraq, or as recently as last week, but they think that projection for future attacks could be the Riyadh explosions that we saw, that the suicide attacks that we saw last week.
HARRIS: That's a point I want to get either you or Nic to address. Because Sheila MacVicar was with us last hour, and talked about the fact that in the past what we have seen, is we've seen an announcement like this issued, and then a spate of attacks has followed. In this case, we've seen the attacks first, and then the tape being delivered. Anything to be read into that? NASR: Well, it's hard right now. You do have to understand that Al Qaeda is on the run. It is very disoriented, if you will. There are questions about why is it that Al-Zawahari that is sending out this message and not Osama bin Laden himself? Are they separated? Is Osama bin Laden dead? Is he injured? Is he not somewhere where he can reach out? So lots of question marks about Al Qaeda and how organized it is and how accessible it is. So I personally do not question that, why the tape came after or before, or is there going to be attacks in the future? Sure. Everybody is saying we have to be on the alert, on the outlook for more attacks. I do not question that as, why is the message coming after the attacks, if indeed he was referring to the Riyadh bombings.
HARRIS: As we are talking here, President Bush is right now in New London, Connecticut. He is going to be addressing the Coast Guard academy. You see him there standing with homeland security chief Tom Ridge. And once the president begins his remarks, and if Chief Ridge has any remarks, we'll go there live. We expect there may be possible some words to come on the topic of terror this morning, as we've been discussing it here.
But, Nic, let me ask you about this point Octavia here just raised. Does this delivery of this tape or anything thereon say anything at all about how Al Qaeda is now constituted?
ROBERTSON: Again, very, very few clues on those kinds of issues. And perhaps that's one of the reasons that Al Qaeda delivers the message in an audio form, and not a video form. Perhaps a video form will give away how these leaders look now. Maybe they've changed the way that they look.
We know that in the past, Al Qaeda has after some events, for example, the Bali bombing, released a message very soon after. We know that they've release messages before events have happened, and perhaps taken in combination with this high level of chatter, the increased threat in that region, the increased threat that is perceived here as here, that this is going to add certainly to the concern that perhaps something is yet still about to happen. It has been so many times been the modus operandi for Al Qaeda.
HARRIS: We have to over and ask Octavia this one last question. Nic made note of the fact that there seems to be quite a bit of evidence on this tape. Does that tell you anything?
NASR: Yes. This whole thing could be fabricated. There's no indication -- there's no consistency. When you hear it in Arabic, it is very interesting, because you can feel the cuts. The mention of the Suez Canal, for example. It says the canal, and then it's cut. We assume that it is the Suez Canal, because it's talking about the canal in Egypt. It has heavy editing. You hear noises in the background. You even hear children in the background. So it's very interesting how this whole thing was put together. It could have been put together in the streets of Cairo for all we know.
So yes, it raises the question if this is authentic, if it is indeed Al-Zawahari. I guess we'll wait and see. HARRIS: Very interesting, and with your engineering background, as you know, that's going to give investigators plenty to work with.
ROBERTSON: Indeed.
HARRIS: Thank you very much, Octavia Nasr and Nic Robertson, always good to have both of you with us.
All right, we're going to move on this morning. The U.S. intelligence community is going to analyze the audio on that tape and then try to figure out whether or not it's genuine.
Our national security correspondent David Ensor has been talking with his sources this morning.
David, what have you learned?
DAVID ENSOR, NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Leon, many of the same things the two correspondents have been addressing. As you say, U.S. intelligence officials are conducting a technical analysis of this audiotape, broadcast Wednesday on Al-Jazeera, purporting to be the voice of Ayman Al-Zawahari. It could be him. One official said, and we may have a better idea in a day or two.
U.S. officials are noting that, as Nic said, in the past, the release of the tape of an Al Qaeda leader has sometimes been followed by a major attack or attacks. They often precede attacks, often but not always, one official noted.
If it is Zawahiri, he may have chosen to record an audio, rather than videotape, officials say, because as Nic noted, it would not show how he may have changed his appearance. It's also easier to produce. Responding to some recent reports, suggestions at least, by some officials overseas, that Al-Zawahari might in fact be dead, one official said to me that he believes it's more likely that Al-Zawahari is still alive.
A different official I spoke to did express some skepticism about whether or not this is the voice of Ayman Al-Zawahari. It sounded like a younger man, perhaps a different person to this individual.
But as I say, the technical analysis will be the real test. That's going to be conducted over the next day or so. We should have some at least judgment call from the U.S. intelligence as to whether this is the voice of Al-Zawahari or not perhaps tomorrow -- Leon.
HARRIS: That mirrors what our Nic Robertson said about the voice sounding like a younger man. So another confirmation of that.
David, you've been reporting for days now that there has been this increase in the chatter level out there. This would seem to corroborate all of that. Does this tape and it's delivery this morning give folks there in Washington any sense that there may be a bigger event, that may be very eminent right now or what?
ENSOR: As Octavia noted, when the tape implies a big event is about to come, it could be talking about the Riyadh bombings that have already occurred. Since the tape doesn't refer to them, or to Morocco, it could have happened before the events in Saudi Arabia. You can't rule out the possibility of additional attacks. And certainly, as you say, there's a lot of other intelligence suggesting additional attacks may be in the offing.
HARRIS: Got you. And finally, real quickly, the background noises that Nic made note of, your experts there in Washington say anything about them, and whether or not they think they will be definitive enough to help them identify where he is?
ENSOR: Well, audio tapes reveal a lot less than videotapes do. You may recall the walkabout Saddam tapes. Those were quite revealing. They showed things about when they were recorded, and they show the claim of having been recorded on a certain date was false. An audiotape is much less revealing. A child crying could be a child anywhere on Earth. Officials do feel that Al-Zawahari and bin Laden are lying very low, and this recording, if it is Al-Zawahari, could have been made in someone's house, where he's concealing himself.
But, you know, it's not probably going to be the very revealing in that regard, this audio tape.
HARRIS: Very interesting. Thank you very much, David. David Ensor in Washington. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
