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CNN LIVE SATURDAY
Interview With Lou Cannon, Nicholas Heyward
Aired May 24, 2003 - 14:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Are suspicious of police misconduct now in the Big Apple raising its head again? Joining us from New York, Nicholas Heyward, an organizer for the October 22nd Coalition to Stop Police Brutality joins us. He became an activist after a police officer shot and killed his teenage son in 1994 in Brooklyn. His son, Nicholas Jr., was carrying a toy gun.
And from Washington is Lou Cannon, president of the D.C. Fraternal Order of Police. Good to see both of you. And thank you for joining us. Mr. Cannon, let me begin with you. It's kind of tough to defend this case, Miss Alberta, when everyone from the mayor to the police commissioner to people in the neighborhoods are saying that this really should not have happened. But since it did, let's now try to evaluate, what are the procedures that the police officers would go through, perhaps, before using this kind of flash grenade, going to the residence of what turned out to be this older woman, and bombarding their way in, and handcuffing?
LOU CANNON, PRES., D.C. FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: Well, first of all, it certainly is a tragedy this happened. But the officers involved obviously had obtained a search warrant. That means that they had certain information that they had gathered. They presented it to a judge. They presented probable cause to believe that this event was occurring, drugs were being sold from this location.
WHITFIELD: Apparently, they had -- they had information from informants who say there were drugs being sold from this location. But there would be some double-checking that would take place, right?
CANNON: In most cases, there would be. Depending on, there may have been circumstances where there couldn't have been. I don't know the exact circumstances. But they still would have had to obtain the warrant, based on the information from this confidential informant.
WHITFIELD: Well, what do you think went wrong here?
CANNON: What went wrong is obviously either the informant was mistaken, there was bad information obtained. They then used standard tactics to enter a residence where they believed that there were individuals there that were engaged in narcotic distribution activity. Part of that is the element of surprise; is that you want to take the people off guard. The flash bang or concussion grenade that was used in this is standard practice in a lot of entries that are being used for drug distribution houses.
WHITFIELD: Well, in this case that surprise ended up killing what appears to be an innocent bystander here. Now, what would be your recommendation as to how an investigation should proceed on this, an internal investigation and otherwise so that people in the community feel satisfied that every measure was taken in this investigation?
CANNON: I think you have to review, number one, and the information -- the confidential informant. You don't have to necessarily reveal who the informant was, but you have to ascertain his reliability and his veracity. How many times did he give information? Were there backup buys that were attempted from this location? There's a number of different things you can look at to ascertain if things were done correctly.
WHITFIELD: Mr. Heyward, let me bring you into this. It was 1994 when you lost your son, Nicholas Jr., to a police involved shooting. Your child was carrying a toy gun. In a case very similar to this, and that obviously grave mistakes were made, might any type of internal investigation be able to resolve or bring about any satisfactory conclusions to the people of this community?
NICHOLAS HEYWARD, OCTOBER 22ND COALITION: Well, I first think that, you know, there are procedures that they used, was totally wrong in smashing down this woman's door. They first -- even though it wasn't an informant who gave them this information, they still should have went, either tried to buy drugs from this apartment, something more than just take the word or advice of on informant. I do believe that informants should be made public and we need to know who this informant is, because a life was lost, an innocent life was lost. And this, right here, isn't something that just happened just recently. This is something that's been going on for many, many, many years. I mean, every time someone --- an innocent life is lost, there's always some sort of cover-up involved in this here. This stuff right here, this right here should have never, never happened.
WHITFIELD: Mr. Heyward, you attended the funeral this morning, correct, of Miss Alberta?
HEYWARD: No.
WHITFIELD: Was it your plan to attend it?
HEYWARD: That was my plan, but other family members (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and (UNINTELLIGIBLE), other parents have attended the services.
WHITFIELD: What's your understanding then of people who may have attended that ceremony...
HEYWARD: I understand...
WHITFIELD: And the feeling of whether there is any satisfaction from people who knew Miss Alberta as to whether this investigation will be fair and sound?
HEYWARD: I don't -- I don't think that there's any satisfaction that has been brought about to the community as of -- as of yet, because they're waiting to see if justice is going to be served. And an innocent life that was lost from a member from their community. I believe that swift justice should be brought about to reconcile the whole community ...
WHITFIELD: OK.
HEYWARD: Because -- I mean, this life should have never -- this right here should have never even happened.
WHITFIELD: Mr. Cannon, let me bring you into this, some final words on this. What should anyone make of the direction of the investigation of the New York Police Department, the way in which it handles these clandestine type of investigations, now, in light of yet one more death of what appears to have been an innocent man in a warehouse, this African art dealer, who was shot because the police thought that he may have been part of a counterfeiting ring during their bust?
CANNON: Anytime an innocent life is lost, it's certainly a tragedy. But let us also remember, that last year we just engraved the names of 136 law enforcement officers on the memorial wall who lost their lives in the line of duty. That's 136 people who should have gone home also. And, you know, they didn't do anything to deserve their deaths. So what we have to do is ensure that fair and impartial investigations are done, and if there's a mistake, we need to learn to work to correct the mistakes that occur.
WHITFIELD: Lou Cannon of the Fraternal Order of Police ...
HEYWARD: Let me say...
WHITFIELD: Real quick.
HEYWARD: Yes, I'd also like to say, I understand police officers are out there, fighting in this world today, trying to bring about what ever it is they do. But what I'm saying they do since 9/11 there have been over 50 names of innocent people who were killed. Since 9/11 -- police brutality did not die in 9/11.
WHITFIELD: All right.
HEYWARD: Also, "Stolen Lives" document over 2,000 cases of innocent people killed by law enforcement.
WHITFIELD: All right, Nicholas Heyward, you got the last word on that. Thank you very much, both of you, for joining us this afternoon.
HEYWARD: Thank you very much.
CANNON: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: An investigation in both of those incidents continues in New York.
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