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CNN Sunday Morning

Interview With Kendall Coffey

Aired June 01, 2003 - 11:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Authorities are getting ready to move bombing suspect Eric Rudolph from Murphy, North Carolina, to Asheville for a scheduled court hearing tomorrow after a five-year manhunt. Rudolph was caught yesterday by local police in Cherokee County, where he is now being held.
We have two reports. CNN's Jason Bellini is in Asheville, and Mike Brooks is in Murphy, where this drama began.

Mike, let's start with you.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again, Sophia. Eric Rudolph sits in Cherokee County jail in the building right behind me. It's a very small country jail, and takes up the first two stories of the brick building.

Earlier there wasn't much going on here. Kind of a quiet Sunday morning, but just a short time ago, we saw law enforcement officers with submachine guns, binoculars, seemed like they were surveying the area, possibly in preparation for a possible move either today or early tomorrow to Asheville with Eric Rudolph.

Now, there was some other activity by the FBI. Just right behind the shopping center where he was arrested yesterday, Sophia, the FBI's evidence response team were loading up quads to go back up into the woods. It's believed that he possibly could have been living in these woods up to the time of his arrest early yesterday morning.

So, again, fairly busy day here in Murphy, North Carolina. They've also set up a command post at the National Guard armory, just a short distance from here, where all the law enforcement efforts are being coordinated out of. So it's a busy day here in Murphy, North Carolina, this morning. Sophia?

CHOI: Where you are is such a small community. I'm sure they've never seen so much attention like they're getting now. What is the town's reaction? Have you gotten a sense of that yet?

BROOKS: Well, some of the townsfolks here are used to it. Back during the initial search for Eric Rudolph there was a lot of FBI agents, ATF, Georgia Bureau of Investigation, North Carolina highway patrol that were searching the area between Andrews, which is just a town a short distance down the road, and Murphy, North Carolina.

But now they have law enforcement and the press back in town, and in talking to them, they say this is the biggest thing that's happened in Murphy in about five years. So they're taking it all in stride. A little while ago showing you a t-shirt, they're selling t-shirts that Eric Rudolph was caught and I was there. So they're kind of taking it all in stride.

In talking a little bit about their feelings, some are saying that they believe some citizens here may have helped Rudolph. Other citizens are saying that they don't believe that anyone here in Murphy would do those kind of things. So, again, kind of a mixed feeling between some of the citizens in here Murphy, North Carolina.

CHOI: All right, Mike Brooks in Murphy, North Carolina, where we are still awaiting the transfer of Rudolph to Asheville, North Carolina, where we find our Jason Bellini -- Jason.

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sophia, well, Eric Rudolph will be moving from small town mountain town to downtown Asheville, North Carolina. You can see that this is a quiet morning here, but this is a very busy street, one of the main streets in Asheville, where the prison located. This is where he will end up when he does come here.

We don't know exactly when that's going to happen. We've been hearing various times. Yesterday local reporters were waiting for him to get here. There were barriers up. Now you don't see any barriers. Things are quiet. But we keep hearing rumors that he'll be here today, or he'll be here tomorrow. He has to be here by 10:00 tomorrow. That's when he has his arraignment, at 10:00 in the morning.

What we're told will happen is, he will enter through red doors of that prison facility right there. He'll be processed, he'll get an I.D. tag, a wristband that has all his information, has a photo of him on it and a bar code. So he'll go very quickly from being in the woods to being very identifiable in this prison system. He'll also be transferred into a white prison suit that he'll wear, and also he'll be -- local officials say that as long as it's OK with the FBI, they plan to put him in solitary confinement, one of 20 cells in their special -- the special assignment area. Back to you, Sophia.

CHOI: Jason, what will happen at that hearing tomorrow, at that arraignment hearing? I assume he'll either be appointed an attorney, if he doesn't have one already, and also, perhaps, read his rights?

BELLINI: Well, the important decision to be made tomorrow morning at 10:00 is whether he will go to Atlanta, or he'll go to Birmingham. That's the decision the judge will make, and so he won't be staying here very long. He'll go to his full trial in one of those two cities. Sophia?

CHOI: All right, Jason Bellini in Asheville, North Carolina, still awaiting the transfer of Rudolph. Thanks.

An attorney for Richard Jewell, investigated in the Olympic bombings, says the arrest of Rudolph changes nothing about the injustice suffered by his client. He adds, Jewell will be happy only when the real bomber is convicted. The former security guard was named as a suspect in media reports but he was cleared just three months later. Jewell is now working as a police officer here in Georgia.

The bottom legal line in the case against Eric Rudolph is that he could face the death penalty if convicted in these bomb cases. Some perspective now from CNN legal analyst Kendall Coffey in Miami. Thanks for joining us again.

KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Sophia.

CHOI: So, for people who are just now following this case, let's go over the charges that Rudolph faces.

COFFEY: Well, he faces two counts that have been returned by a grand jury, federal grand jury, in Birmingham. 21 counts based on the federal grand jury's indictment in Atlanta. In Birmingham the charges center on the 1998 bombing of an abortion clinic, where a police officer was killed and where, of course, the nurse, Emily Lyons, lost an eye, hundreds of pieces of shrapnel still in her body.

With Atlanta, the charges include the Olympic bombing in 1996, plus 1997 bombings at an abortion clinic, and later on, the following month, at the Otherside Lounge.

By the way, the Atlanta indictment apparently also includes charges with respect to the Birmingham abortion clinic, so, in a sense, the Atlanta case might provide an opportunity to prevent the complete story, or to present the complete story, of this defendant's alleged criminality.

CHOI: So what's your gut saying? I mean, tomorrow we're supposed to find out which state gets him first. What does your gut say, who gets him?

COFFEY: My instinct is Atlanta, unless there is a very significant difference in the strength of the two cases. Because that's really where the greater center of the gravity of criminality occurred, the spectacular internationally devastating tragedy, the Olympic bombing, three different bombings, and, again, the Atlanta case is set up so that all of the evidence, including the Birmingham evidence, could come into one single trial.

CHOI: Is a judge likely to okay that? Or would they want to separate the two?

COFFEY: This call is the call of Attorney General John Ashcroft. Both the two U.S. attorneys, the Birmingham and Atlanta, report to him, and as we're speaking, my sense is the phone lines are burning between Birmingham and Atlanta and Washington, as two different U.S. attorney offices are making their case to the justice department as to why their jurisdiction ought to be the first to proceed with the trial.

CHOI: I've also heard some talk about the A.G. using these new kind of terrorism rules against Rudolph. Do you think that will happen? COFFEY: Well, the original charges center on things like interstate transportation of explosive devices. The basic use of bombs in committing acts that result the in the loss of human life. A lot of the terrorism laws that they might want to use weren't added until 2001 after 9/11.

For example, the definition of domestic terrorism and this, indeed, strikes you as exactly that kind of crime, was actually legislated for the first time in the wake of 9/11. So there are certainly facets of terrorism law and consequences that will be part of this. And he is certainly seen as, in effect, as a lone wolf terrorist. But in terms of some of the more recent legislation, that probably wouldn't be applicable.

CHOI: Let's talk about the death penalty. You think it's a for sure thing, huh?

COFFEY: I think they're certainly going to seek the death penalty. And if he is convicted, this is a very compelling death penalty case. These weren't bombs that were trying to slow down buildings or do anything other than destroy and maim human beings. Essentially anti-personnel devices locked with bullets, loaded with bullets, that became shrapnel. There are many people today walk around with some of the shrapnel still in their bodies. When Emily Lyons, the nurse who was so harmed, so disfigured, takes the stand, the chances of the jury returning a verdict of death are going to be very high.

CHOI: I know you're a former U.S. attorney, but play the other side for me, will you? And tell me, how would you defend a guy like this.

COFFEY: You focus on the fact that there probably are not going to be strong eyewitness identifications that place him actually perpetrating the crime. Plus, he was operating by himself. He wasn't part of an organization where you have that human trail of accomplices or cooperators that the government might be able to turn into witnesses against Eric Rudolph. So it becomes, in a sense, a forensic case, trying to connect the particular nails or the particular gunpowder to the actual bombings.

What the defense is going to do, is that the prosecution works from A to B to C, is try to raise questions. For example, couldn't this gunpowder have been purchased anywhere? Couldn't the nails they say were found in a locker near North Carolina have been just like the nails that anybody could have used or bought from a local hardware store? So the defense is going to focus on what will probably be relatively limited eyewitness testimony and try to pick apart the forensic case for the prosecution.

CHOI: Former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey, always nice to see you. Thanks.

COFFEY: Sophia.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 1, 2003 - 11:01   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Authorities are getting ready to move bombing suspect Eric Rudolph from Murphy, North Carolina, to Asheville for a scheduled court hearing tomorrow after a five-year manhunt. Rudolph was caught yesterday by local police in Cherokee County, where he is now being held.
We have two reports. CNN's Jason Bellini is in Asheville, and Mike Brooks is in Murphy, where this drama began.

Mike, let's start with you.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again, Sophia. Eric Rudolph sits in Cherokee County jail in the building right behind me. It's a very small country jail, and takes up the first two stories of the brick building.

Earlier there wasn't much going on here. Kind of a quiet Sunday morning, but just a short time ago, we saw law enforcement officers with submachine guns, binoculars, seemed like they were surveying the area, possibly in preparation for a possible move either today or early tomorrow to Asheville with Eric Rudolph.

Now, there was some other activity by the FBI. Just right behind the shopping center where he was arrested yesterday, Sophia, the FBI's evidence response team were loading up quads to go back up into the woods. It's believed that he possibly could have been living in these woods up to the time of his arrest early yesterday morning.

So, again, fairly busy day here in Murphy, North Carolina. They've also set up a command post at the National Guard armory, just a short distance from here, where all the law enforcement efforts are being coordinated out of. So it's a busy day here in Murphy, North Carolina, this morning. Sophia?

CHOI: Where you are is such a small community. I'm sure they've never seen so much attention like they're getting now. What is the town's reaction? Have you gotten a sense of that yet?

BROOKS: Well, some of the townsfolks here are used to it. Back during the initial search for Eric Rudolph there was a lot of FBI agents, ATF, Georgia Bureau of Investigation, North Carolina highway patrol that were searching the area between Andrews, which is just a town a short distance down the road, and Murphy, North Carolina.

But now they have law enforcement and the press back in town, and in talking to them, they say this is the biggest thing that's happened in Murphy in about five years. So they're taking it all in stride. A little while ago showing you a t-shirt, they're selling t-shirts that Eric Rudolph was caught and I was there. So they're kind of taking it all in stride.

In talking a little bit about their feelings, some are saying that they believe some citizens here may have helped Rudolph. Other citizens are saying that they don't believe that anyone here in Murphy would do those kind of things. So, again, kind of a mixed feeling between some of the citizens in here Murphy, North Carolina.

CHOI: All right, Mike Brooks in Murphy, North Carolina, where we are still awaiting the transfer of Rudolph to Asheville, North Carolina, where we find our Jason Bellini -- Jason.

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sophia, well, Eric Rudolph will be moving from small town mountain town to downtown Asheville, North Carolina. You can see that this is a quiet morning here, but this is a very busy street, one of the main streets in Asheville, where the prison located. This is where he will end up when he does come here.

We don't know exactly when that's going to happen. We've been hearing various times. Yesterday local reporters were waiting for him to get here. There were barriers up. Now you don't see any barriers. Things are quiet. But we keep hearing rumors that he'll be here today, or he'll be here tomorrow. He has to be here by 10:00 tomorrow. That's when he has his arraignment, at 10:00 in the morning.

What we're told will happen is, he will enter through red doors of that prison facility right there. He'll be processed, he'll get an I.D. tag, a wristband that has all his information, has a photo of him on it and a bar code. So he'll go very quickly from being in the woods to being very identifiable in this prison system. He'll also be transferred into a white prison suit that he'll wear, and also he'll be -- local officials say that as long as it's OK with the FBI, they plan to put him in solitary confinement, one of 20 cells in their special -- the special assignment area. Back to you, Sophia.

CHOI: Jason, what will happen at that hearing tomorrow, at that arraignment hearing? I assume he'll either be appointed an attorney, if he doesn't have one already, and also, perhaps, read his rights?

BELLINI: Well, the important decision to be made tomorrow morning at 10:00 is whether he will go to Atlanta, or he'll go to Birmingham. That's the decision the judge will make, and so he won't be staying here very long. He'll go to his full trial in one of those two cities. Sophia?

CHOI: All right, Jason Bellini in Asheville, North Carolina, still awaiting the transfer of Rudolph. Thanks.

An attorney for Richard Jewell, investigated in the Olympic bombings, says the arrest of Rudolph changes nothing about the injustice suffered by his client. He adds, Jewell will be happy only when the real bomber is convicted. The former security guard was named as a suspect in media reports but he was cleared just three months later. Jewell is now working as a police officer here in Georgia.

The bottom legal line in the case against Eric Rudolph is that he could face the death penalty if convicted in these bomb cases. Some perspective now from CNN legal analyst Kendall Coffey in Miami. Thanks for joining us again.

KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Sophia.

CHOI: So, for people who are just now following this case, let's go over the charges that Rudolph faces.

COFFEY: Well, he faces two counts that have been returned by a grand jury, federal grand jury, in Birmingham. 21 counts based on the federal grand jury's indictment in Atlanta. In Birmingham the charges center on the 1998 bombing of an abortion clinic, where a police officer was killed and where, of course, the nurse, Emily Lyons, lost an eye, hundreds of pieces of shrapnel still in her body.

With Atlanta, the charges include the Olympic bombing in 1996, plus 1997 bombings at an abortion clinic, and later on, the following month, at the Otherside Lounge.

By the way, the Atlanta indictment apparently also includes charges with respect to the Birmingham abortion clinic, so, in a sense, the Atlanta case might provide an opportunity to prevent the complete story, or to present the complete story, of this defendant's alleged criminality.

CHOI: So what's your gut saying? I mean, tomorrow we're supposed to find out which state gets him first. What does your gut say, who gets him?

COFFEY: My instinct is Atlanta, unless there is a very significant difference in the strength of the two cases. Because that's really where the greater center of the gravity of criminality occurred, the spectacular internationally devastating tragedy, the Olympic bombing, three different bombings, and, again, the Atlanta case is set up so that all of the evidence, including the Birmingham evidence, could come into one single trial.

CHOI: Is a judge likely to okay that? Or would they want to separate the two?

COFFEY: This call is the call of Attorney General John Ashcroft. Both the two U.S. attorneys, the Birmingham and Atlanta, report to him, and as we're speaking, my sense is the phone lines are burning between Birmingham and Atlanta and Washington, as two different U.S. attorney offices are making their case to the justice department as to why their jurisdiction ought to be the first to proceed with the trial.

CHOI: I've also heard some talk about the A.G. using these new kind of terrorism rules against Rudolph. Do you think that will happen? COFFEY: Well, the original charges center on things like interstate transportation of explosive devices. The basic use of bombs in committing acts that result the in the loss of human life. A lot of the terrorism laws that they might want to use weren't added until 2001 after 9/11.

For example, the definition of domestic terrorism and this, indeed, strikes you as exactly that kind of crime, was actually legislated for the first time in the wake of 9/11. So there are certainly facets of terrorism law and consequences that will be part of this. And he is certainly seen as, in effect, as a lone wolf terrorist. But in terms of some of the more recent legislation, that probably wouldn't be applicable.

CHOI: Let's talk about the death penalty. You think it's a for sure thing, huh?

COFFEY: I think they're certainly going to seek the death penalty. And if he is convicted, this is a very compelling death penalty case. These weren't bombs that were trying to slow down buildings or do anything other than destroy and maim human beings. Essentially anti-personnel devices locked with bullets, loaded with bullets, that became shrapnel. There are many people today walk around with some of the shrapnel still in their bodies. When Emily Lyons, the nurse who was so harmed, so disfigured, takes the stand, the chances of the jury returning a verdict of death are going to be very high.

CHOI: I know you're a former U.S. attorney, but play the other side for me, will you? And tell me, how would you defend a guy like this.

COFFEY: You focus on the fact that there probably are not going to be strong eyewitness identifications that place him actually perpetrating the crime. Plus, he was operating by himself. He wasn't part of an organization where you have that human trail of accomplices or cooperators that the government might be able to turn into witnesses against Eric Rudolph. So it becomes, in a sense, a forensic case, trying to connect the particular nails or the particular gunpowder to the actual bombings.

What the defense is going to do, is that the prosecution works from A to B to C, is try to raise questions. For example, couldn't this gunpowder have been purchased anywhere? Couldn't the nails they say were found in a locker near North Carolina have been just like the nails that anybody could have used or bought from a local hardware store? So the defense is going to focus on what will probably be relatively limited eyewitness testimony and try to pick apart the forensic case for the prosecution.

CHOI: Former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey, always nice to see you. Thanks.

COFFEY: Sophia.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com