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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
FCC Eases Restrictions on Media Ownership; Bush Visits Egypt; Vanishing Retirement
Aired June 2, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight from Washington, a landmark ruling on media ownership, it makes significant changes to the rules on who controls what we see, hear, and read in this country. Greg Clarkin will report.
And, Congressman Billy Tauzin and media columnist Michael Wolff will be my guests tonight.
President Bush is in Egypt tonight the first stop of a historic peace mission. Mr. Bush says he will put in as much time as necessary to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. John King will have a live report from Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt.
And, the first in our series of special reports this week on "Vanishing Retirement," tonight why many people may have to give up their plans altogether for a leisurely retirement. Bill Tucker will report.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, D.C., this is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Monday, June 2, here now Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening everybody from Washington tonight.
Government regulators today announced sweeping changes in the rules on media ownership in this country. Those changes mean media companies will be able to buy more television stations. They'll also be able to own a newspaper and a television or radio station in the same market.
We begin our coverage tonight with Greg Clarkin here in Washington. Greg, this is regulatory revolution.
GREG CLARKIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, Lou, FCC Chairman Michael Powell getting his way, tossing out these regulations which were put in place between 1941 and 1975, the FCC chairman saying they were no longer relevant to today's media world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARKIN (voice-over): Amid shouts of protest, the FCC swept away a generation of rules on who can own the nation's newspapers, radio, and TV stations. The commission voted along party lines, three Republicans, including Chairman Michael Powell in favor of tossing out the old rules. The FCC's two Democrats oppose the move. Powell said the rules are outdated and if the FCC didn't change them the courts would.
MICHAEL POWELL, FCC CHAIRMAN: Keeping the rules exactly as they are, as some so stridently suggest, was not a viable option. Without today's surgery the rules would assuredly meet a swift death.
CLARKIN: The new rules led a broadcaster own TV stations reaching 45 percent of the nation's viewers, up from 35 percent and a single company can now own both a TV station and a newspaper in the same market. Another change lets a company own as many as three TV stations in the nation's largest markets and two in many others.
Commissioner Michael Copps voted against the changes. He says a lesson should have been learned from the upheaval created by radio deregulation.
MICHAEL COPPS, FCC COMMISSIONER: This experience ought to terrify us as we consider visiting upon television and newspapers what we have inflicted upon radio. Clear Channel-ization of the rest of the American media will harm our country.
CLARKIN: Copps is referring to the radio giant, Clear Channel, which snapped up local radio stations at a fever pitch after deregulation growing from less than 100 stations to more than 1,200.
Opponents fear that's exactly what will happen with TV, with local stations being snapped up by corporate giants eliminating diverse views and stifling competition and they vow to fight the new rules in court.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLARKIN: And, this is a battle that's expected to wind up on Capitol Hill as well. Senator John McCain has a hearing scheduled for Wednesday at which all five FCC commissioners are due to testify and a bipartisan group of Senators say they may have the political muscle to reverse the rule on TV station ownership - Lou.
DOBBS: Greg, I think we should probably point out to our viewers that the pictures, they just saw President Bush and French President Jacques Chirac, had nothing to do with media regulation. That is, I think, called a media technical problem.
CLARKIN: I think that's a technical glitch, thoroughly unrelated to that.
DOBBS: Let's turn back to this issue and this revolutionary day in regulation of media in this country. Is there going to be as a result a huge wave of consolidation?
CLARKIN: A lot of folks expect to see piece meal deals. You might get the Tribune Company looking to buy newspapers where it has TV stations, Gannett a similar strategy. Companies like Media General, they don't expect to see big on big but more of kind of piece meal deals where companies fill out their portfolios in a particular market. DOBBS: Terrific and we should point out this, again, this legislation opposed by such divers interests as the National Organization for Women and the National Rifle Association. How often does that happen in a lifetime?
CLARKIN: Maybe once this time around and they say it's not over.
DOBBS: Greg, thanks a lot, Greg Clarkin.
Later in this broadcast I'll be talking about today's FCC vote with Congressman Billy Tauzin, the Chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, a strong advocate of these changes that Chairman Michael Powell undertook today. And, I'll be talking with Michael Wolff, media columnist with "New York" magazine who is vehemently opposed.
President Bush today pledged to put in as much time as necessary to achieve peace between Israelis and Palestinians. Tonight, the president is in Egypt for talks with Arab leaders before his summit with the Israeli and Palestinian prime ministers.
Senior White House Correspondent John King joins us live now from Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt - John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the president traveled here from the G8 Summit in Evian, France. There his delicate challenge was fence mending, especially with the Russians and the French.
Here in the Middle East, the president turns his attention to a much more difficult challenge, peacemaking.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Egypt is stop one in a push for Middle East peace the president says will erase any doubt about his personal commitment.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The first message is I will dedicate the time and energy to move the process forward and I think we'll make some progress. I know we're making progress.
KING: The main event is Wednesday's three-way summit in Jordan with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas.
BUSH: My expectations in the Middle East are to call all the respective parties to their responsibility to achieve peace.
KING: Mr. Bush wants both leaders to implement the early benchmarks of his so-called Middle East road map.
For Prime Minister Sharon that means dismantling illegal settlements, easing more economic restrictions on Palestinians, and embracing a timetable to pull out of the Palestinian territories. And from Prime Minister Abbas, Mr. Bush wants immediate improvements in Palestinian security forces, a crackdown on militant groups blamed for attacks on Israel, an acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.
The first stop here at the Red Sea resort of Sharm El Sheikh is considered critical to building momentum. Mr. Bush will hold a get- to-know-you session with Prime Minister Abbas and he will talk strategy with Egypt's Mubarak, Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah, and other key Arab leaders.
U.S. officials say Mr. Bush will tell the Arab leaders he needs their help in isolating Yasser Arafat and enthusiastically backing Mr. Abbas as the frontline Palestinian leader.
Secretary of State Powell is on hand for the talks as well and the Bush administration will leave a team of diplomats and security experts behind after the summit to monitor progress in implementing any new promises.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now, the president calls this just a beginning of a long and difficult process but he says there should be no doubt that he is willing to dedicate whatever time, whatever energy it takes. That is a promise some of the Arab leaders gathered here are not yet convinced Mr. Bush plans to keep - Lou.
DOBBS: John, the president in usual circumstances would be managing expectations lower for all the world. It seems as if the Bush administration here is raising them a bit.
KING: Well, he is certainly raising them in terms of his level of personal commitment, Lou, the president adding this visit to the region, first a stop here to meet with Arab leaders, then the dramatic three-way summit to demonstrate that he is personally ready to plunge in to this process that has befuddled, stymied, and frustrated so many presidents before him as to any expectations about progress.
That is what the president means when he said earlier today he expects it will be long and a frustrating process. But you are dead right in saying Mr. Bush is getting involved deeply in a personal way. It will be very difficult to back out if things go wrong - Lou.
DOBBS: John, thank you very much, John King, Senior White House Correspondent with the president tonight reporting from Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt.
Israel has raised its security levels ahead of the summit in Acaba, Jordan to be held later this week. Israeli commanders today declared the West Bank town of Ramallah a closed military zone. They imposed a curfew as well. Israel Radio also said it has received more than 50 threats of Palestinian attacks in Jerusalem.
While President Bush talks about peace in the Middle East, a senior Pentagon official is talking about enhancing military readiness in Asia. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz met South Korean President Roh in Seoul today.
Wolfowitz told the South Korean leader about plans to reposition U.S. troops further south from the demilitarized zone between the two Koreas. Thirty-seven thousand U.S. troops are based in South Korea.
U.S. troops in Iraq today resumed a food rationing program for the first time since the end of the war against Saddam Hussein. That program gives Iraqis a monthly package of basic food products, including flour, rice, tea, and sugar. The program will cost nearly $2 billion for the first five months of operation. Most of that money comes from Iraq's pre-war oil revenues but the United States is contributing almost $400 million.
The U.S. administrator in Iraq, Ambassador Paul Bremer, today said the coalition shortly expects to set up a representative interim administration. That announcement follows the abandonment of plans to convene a national congress of Iraqi exiles and opposition leaders - Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A peaceful democratic Iraq is going to take some more time. The U.S.-led coalition says it is going to pick 25 to 30 Iraqis to form an interim government in Iraq and that's going to take another five or six weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are in the process of trying to establish the best way to arrive at a fully representative interim administration.
PILGRIM: Experts say the extra time is something that was not anticipated but is now necessary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's different than the original plan. That's because when we got on the ground and we started consultations with Iraqis we realized how complex it would be to designate a representative group. After consulting far and wide, we decided to broaden the group and to take more time.
PILGRIM: Securing the peace in Iraq is also going to take some international help. Right now, the United States has 140,000 troops and Britain some 25,000 to 30,000.
Today, 19 NATO allies approved plans to help the Poles assemble a multinational force of 7,000. Poland will lead the peacekeeping force in one of the zones of control in Iraq and will contribute more than 2,000 to that force. They will start to be deployed this month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The administration has decided to initially pick its own Iraqi leadership council as opposed to having the Iraqis do it, and while that's probably a good thing to do, you wouldn't want to put into place people who were opposed to your objectives.
The fact is that that might stimulate still further opposition and all of these things, of course, contribute to a greater requirement for stability forces or peacekeeping forces. PILGRIM: Keeping the peace may mean giving Iraqis jobs. Thousands of Iraqis who were once in the army have joined the protests in Baghdad. U.S. Administrator Paul Bremer said the coalition is going to start recruiting soldiers for a new Iraqi army by the end of the month - Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
Tonight, new details about what happened to four U.S. soldiers and a number of civilians who went missing on two small boats in the Persian Gulf, our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the story - Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, we are learning more details tonight about what happened and, apparently, it's somewhat disturbing. Those four U.S. Army troops, along with civilians, were heading down the Shatt al Arab Waterway to pick up some oil company workers at the port of Elfah (ph) when they were seized by Iranian forces of some kind.
According to Pentagon sources, the U.S. soldiers and the civilian contractors were taken into custody, blindfolded, taken at gunpoint, questioned throughout the night before the soldiers were returned to the U.S. today unhurt. Apparently they were not the victims of any mistreatment.
But nevertheless, the Iranians apparently claim that the U.S. boat moved over to the Iranian waters on the Shatt al Arab Waterway, which borders between Iraq and Iran. The U.S. says it has no indication that the boat was not where it was supposed to be. At this point, the incident is still being looked into and no word at this point whether the U.S. will lodge any sort of official protest - Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, do we know at this early point what the size of that ship was, what its cargo was, its mission?
MCINTYRE: Well, these were two small civilian contractor boats. They've been described as, you know, slightly bigger than speedboats and they were apparently just going down to pick up some people who are part of the Iraqi Oil Company to move it from one point to another, a fairly routine transportation mission along the Shatt al Arab Waterway.
So, at this point there's no indication they were doing anything other than that. Apparently, the confusion is over whether they were in the Iranian or Iraqi waters at the time this incident took place.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre our Senior Pentagon Correspondent.
Still ahead here tonight "Vanishing Retirement," a reality that millions of us face, tonight we begin a series of special reports on protecting your retirement future.
And who protected the suspected Olympic bomber? Investigators are trying to find out how Eric Rudolph eluded them for so many years. That story, a great deal more, still ahead here, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Strong performance on Wall Street, the Dow Jones Industrials in fact rose above 9,000 for the first time this year. During the session, however, the strong gains didn't hold up at the finish. The Dow closed 47 points higher. The NASDAQ lost five points in fact on the day and the S&P 500 up more than three points.
Christine Romans is live at the New York Stock Exchange with the story on Wall Street - Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Lou. It was the first down day in seven for the Nasdaq but financial media and manufacturing stocks nudged the Dow and the S&P 500 to new highs for this move.
At the big board, 351 stocks hit 52-week highs, only one new low here. The S&P 500 now 21 percent above its March (unintelligible) and money moved out of bonds and into the stock market today.
Lou, biotech stocks, a big winner after a weekend oncology conference in Chicago showed favorable results for some cancer drugs, among them Erbitux, that ImClone drug known better for insider trading than for cancer, and Genentech's Avastin for colon cancer also showed promising results.
The AMEX Biotech Index up more than one percent today, Lou it's up 36 percent in just two months. Now, hardware and semiconductor stocks did not join the rally today.
IBM one of just four Dow stocks to close lower. After the bell, Lou, IBM said the SEC is investigating its revenue recognition for 2000 and 2001. IBM says it believes this is related to an SEC inquiry into one of its customers but, Lou, IBM shares are down about $3 in after hours trade. We'll watch that one tomorrow - Lou.
DOBBS: Oh, absolutely, and that was the only comment that IBM had?
ROMANS: That's all the comment it had.
DOBBS: And looking at the performance of these major market indexes, these are strong gains. We had been looking for a sustained approach to equity appreciation, as they put it on Wall Street. Is there any concern there amongst the traders that this market is moving pretty fast?
ROMANS: Well, it's interesting because one trader was telling me the market is overbought but he said overbought can be a bad thing or it can just mean that a market continues to be strong. You haven't seen the big pullback so many people have been calling for.
Got a little nervous above 9,000 today there was with their, you know, profit taking is what they call it. But we'll watch to see how this market holds up in the next few days. DOBBS: Profit taking the words are music to investors' ears, Christine, even if not entirely an accurate expression.
ROMANS: Right.
DOBBS: Christine thanks a lot, Christine Romans from the New York Exchange tonight.
And our nightly check on the national debt, tonight it stands at more than $6,561,000,000,000, an increase of $3 billion since Friday.
Coming up next here, desperate to retire, millions of baby boomers watching their retirement plans go bust. Bill Tucker will report on what may be our "Vanishing Retirement."
And, sweeping changes in the media industry likely to mean big changes for your hometown newspaper, radio, and television stations, media columnist Michael Wolff, Congressman Billy Tauzin join us for that discussion. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, we begin a series of special reports, "Vanishing Retirement" as this week we focus on the baby boomer generation that's hitting retirement age. Many of those people have been counting on a mix of Social Security, pension plans, retirement funds, to see them through their Golden Years but the reality far different from what they had been expecting.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Retirement remains an ideal. Close out a working career on a golf course, out fishing, or on a beach, but like so many other things it seems retirement isn't what it used to be.
CHRISTINE OWENS, AFL-CIO: The Economic Policy Institute published a report last year that found that more than 40 percent of mid-life workers face retirement in which they will have less than half of their pre-retirement income to live on and that's a sharp increase from just ten or 12 years ago.
TUCKER: Other studies show roughly two-thirds of workers think they will have enough money to live on in retirement. Denial, confusion, well there is one undeniable fact the tide is rising towards retirement age. Seventy-six million Americans are now age 50 and above.
In 2001, 12.5 percent of the population in the United States had reached retirement age. By 2020, that number will jump by more than one-third. That doesn't mean retire. It just means eligible for Social Security, which is now 67, but few people are counting on Social Security and they are taking action now. DALLAS SALISBURY, EMPLOYEE BENEFIT RESEARCH INST.: Well, people say that they're saving more than they used to. People say that they're paying down credit card debt.
They say that they're refinancing their mortgages and trying to get that lower interest rate and that lower payment. They're decreasing the length of their mortgage trying to get them down to 15 years from 30, and they're saving a lot more aggressively in terms of their 401Ks.
TUCKER: Yet according to Salisbury's survey, almost two-thirds of us have never done a calculation to determine whether we'll have enough money to retire and that's a problem because individuals are becoming more responsible for the details of their retirement. The number one concern for workers facing retirement is not money though. It's health care with the average life expectancy now in the mid-80s.
MARILYN MOON, URBAN INSTITUTE: Well, you become eligible for Medicare at age 65 but what a lot of people don't understand is that the Medicare program has never been very generous in the sense that it has limited benefits and most people find it necessary to either buy insurance or hopefully work for someone who provides that insurance for them to wrap around the Medicare Program.
TUCKER: Only a third of retirees are currently covered by an employer provided health care plan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And that may be part of what is behind the finding that one-quarter of the workers 45 years of age and older say they are postponing their retirement so that's up from 15 percent just a year ago - Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, thank you very much, Bill Tucker reporting.
Tomorrow, we continue our series of special reports, "Vanishing Retirement." We take a look at pension plans which are vanishing by any definition. They were once the bedrock of retirement in this country, now a fading dream. Peter Viles will tell you why pension plans have declined and who still has them.
That brings us to tonight's poll question: "How worried are you that you won't have enough money to retire, a lot, somewhat, a little, not at all?" Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. We'll have the preliminary results later here in the broadcast.
The final results of Friday's poll question: "Which of the following will affect your vacation plans?" Six percent of you said terrorism threats, six percent said SARS, 52 percent said the falling dollar, 36 percent said none your bags are packed.
Checking on the trade deficit tonight it stand at more than $212 billion, the trade deficit growing by almost $1.5 billion a day.
Coming up next our "Quote of the Day" on the new media ownership rules.
Then, we'll be talking with Congressman Billy Tauzin, Chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee who supports the changes that the FCC carried out today, and media columnist William Wolff who is a critic of those new rules. We'll be discussing what these new rules mean for all of us.
And, the road to 2004, President Bush will have his work cut out for him where one group at least of voters is concerned. Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider will join us and will have that story for us. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Another SARS death has been reported in Canada. A patient who died last week has been reclassified and has now become SARS death 32 in Canada. Ontario's health commissioner says another five deaths are being reviewed. There are 62 probable, ten suspected cases of SARS in this latest outbreak of the disease in Canada. The number of people under quarantine has dropped, however, from 7,300 to 5,300.
Here in this country the suspected Olympic Park bomber, Eric Rudolph, was flown to Birmingham, Alabama today. Earlier, a federal judge in North Carolina ordered Rudolph to be transferred to Alabama, there to be tried for a women's clinic bombing back in 1998.
Gary Tuchman joins us live now from Asheville, North Carolina - Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, hello to you. We have been waiting to hear from the Justice Department where it wanted Eric Rudolph tried. Would it be Alabama where one of the bombings occurred, or would it be Georgia where thee of the bombings occurred?
Well, John Ashcroft, the Attorney General, made a decision that he wants it to be held in both places, first Alabama, and then Georgia. This afternoon, Rudolph was flown to Birmingham, Alabama. He's in a federal prison now after a whirlwind day of legal proceedings, a helicopter ride, an airplane ride, and at least two motorcades.
He started the day in the town of Murphy, North Carolina. That's where he was arrested Saturday morning. He spent two nights in the County Jail in Murphy. This morning amid very tight security, he's wearing a bulletproof vest, taken to a Black Hawk helicopter for 110- mile flight to Asheville, North Carolina for his initial appearance in a federal court.
Inside the courtroom, he walked in with that bulletproof vest still on. There were about 100 people in the gallery. He looked at nobody. He sat at the table very quietly, listened quietly as the 21- count indictment was read, a 20-minute procedure.
He talked to his court-appointed attorney who was sitting next to him. A couple of times during the period the judge asked him, are you Eric Robert Rudolph and he said to the judge, "yes, Your Honor." His attorney says Rudolph acknowledges no wrongdoing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN DEVEREUX, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I have represented folks in cases involving fatalities who, you know, were scornful, resentful, claimed it's everybody else's fault, that kind of horrible sort of reaction. He didn't say anything that indicated. As far as I know he wasn't anywhere near anything that happened but I can tell you that nothing that he did was that sort of defiant, arrogant, it's their fault not my fault, you know, I'm in the army of god and they had it coming. I mean, nothing. He didn't talk like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Ultimately, a jury will likely make decisions about things like what he talks like, what he acts like, and what he allegedly did. Now, we asked the court-appointed attorney today about any possible camp sites where Rudolph was. And the attorney told us that indeed Rudolph told police where at least one of his camp sites was.
We asked the attorney were any guns found there or any booby traps?
We didn't expect a yes answer and we didn't get a yes answer, but the attorney did tell us two things he believes were found there. He says Rudolph told him that he had there a biography of Gandhi and also a bible.
Lou, back to you.
DOBBS: Gary Tuchman from Asheville, North Carolina. Thank you.
A Virginia judge today said she will decide within 30 days whether to move the trial of the teenaged sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo. Defense attorneys say Malvo's trial should be transferred away from the Washington, D.C. area because of the enormous publicity surrounding the case. But prosecutors say they're confident an impartial jury can be found in the area.
In other news across America tonight, California's wildfire season is under way. This fast-moving grass fire scorched 2,000 acres before being brought under control. The Holiday World amusement park in Indiana is tonight open again. But its roller coaster ride the Raven remains closed. A 32-year-old woman fell to her death from that ride this weekend.
A homecoming today for the USS Constellation and its crew of 5,000. Family members in San Diego welcomed their loved ones at a 41- year-old aircraft carry that saw action most recently in the war against Saddam Hussein. The Constellation is being retired in August.
And a homecoming of a different sort in New York. Professional art framer William Bailey was reunited with a Picasso lithograph and a study by Sophie Matisse today thanks to a good samaritan. Bailey left the artwork on a New York City subway last Thursday. The man who helped bring about the reunion received a $1,000 reward.
DOBBS: Turning now to today's landmark ruling on media ownership rules, Congressman Billy Tauzin believes the looser rules are a good thing and joins us tonight from Capitol Hill. Congressman, good to have you with us.
REP. BILLY TAUZIN (R), LOUISIANA: Good afternoon, Lou.
DOBBS: Congressman, there is a lot of controversy around the FCC's decision today. Why do you support this? How do consumers benefit?
TAUZIN: Well, first of all, the commission had no choice but to re-examine these rules and to rewrite them in the light of the changing media circumstances in America. The court had ordered it to do so. And by the way, the Congress had also mandated that the FCC do this.
The reason the court ordered this review is that these rules, written in the days of black-and-white television, literally prohibit media owners from speaking to more than 35 percent of the national audience. That's what the 35 percent cap is. It's not a 35 percent ownership cap. It's that you can't have more than 35 percent national coverage of your stations. The four networks today, for example, own only 115 of the 1,350 television stations in America. Three percent ownership gets you to that 35 percent coverage cap. So it literally was a case where the court was telling the FCC that these old rules violate the free speech amendment of the Constitution and you've got to change them.
DOBBS: The -- Commissioner Copps today raised the example of radio deregulation, talking about Clear Channeling America in the case of television. Why doesn't that concern you as well?
TAUZIN: Well, let's talk about Clear Channel. Clear Channel owns 9 percent of the radio stations in America. There are 11,000 radio stations today. There's an average of 10 independent radio stations per market in America. Quite a diversity.
Before we deregulated radio and did what the commission did with television today, 60 percent of radio stations were losing money, they were in the red, they had stopped doing news, they had stopped doing local reports on local events in their hometown. Today radio is a vibrant, very competitive enterprise across America. And Clear Channel owns 9 percent of the 11,000 stations in America. It's not exactly like this is a great monopoly that some of these people have made it out to be.
DOBBS: Your counterpart in the Senate, Senator John McCain's going to hold hearings this week on this. Do you -- does that concern you? Do you think that there's a chance here that the Senate might go well beyond anything the House has done to this point and critically examine this to a level that it might end up in a contest, at least between the House and the Senate on this issue?
TAUZIN: We're likely to hold hearings on the House side, too, Lou. We ought to get a full explanation on what the commission went through. But keep in mind, if the commission had not done what it did today, the court was going to order these rules to be totally thrown out. There would be no limitations whatsoever.
What the commission did today was to keep all the limitations in place, but to loosen them a bit in the light of the great diversity of radio and television stations in America today. Not only radio and television, but cable, satellite, wireless systems that are coming in, the Internet. The vast new enterprises that channel voices across America.
But keep in mind, we're talking about a government agency that today limits the amount of people you can speak to as a communications company. How would the court, for example, view a law that said the presidential candidate can only speak to 35 percent of Americans? It's a free speech issue. And the courts were about to toss all the rules out if the FCC had not revised them.
DOBBS: That free speech issue, as you know, Congressman, no one is more savvy than you on political issues of any type, whether they're in media or energy or any number of other areas. The fact is that that free speech issue cuts a number of ways, does it not? To have higher concentrations, higher consolidation of the entities that effectively provide the voice, whether it be radio, television, Internet, or paper.
TAUZIN: Yes, and that's why the commission did what it did to keep the rules alive, to keep them legal in the face of a constitutional challenge. What they did was try to balance it, to say yes, we ought to have some reasonable limitations. You can own up to 4 percent of the television stations in America now and reach up to 45 percent of the national audience. That's the new rule. But they kept the rule in. By saving the rule from getting thrown out by the courts, because it violated the other free speech concerns, that you were literally in the country telling people how many people they could speak to.
DOBBS: When you inaugurate hearings in the House, what will be the point of it, with these new regulations on the books now?
TAUZIN: Lou, the point will be to examine what the commission did, why the commission did it, what the new rules look like and how they're going to work in the real world, and we ought to do that. We ought to get a good examination of it.
But I don't think that the Congress ought to willy-nilly interfere with the decision of the FCC without fully examining why they did what they did today and why they had to do it in the face of a Constitution which says that you and I should be protected from government telling us how many people we can speak to and how many people a broadcast station can broadcast to.
DOBBS: Congressman, we need so much protection from so many entities these days. We appreciate, Congressman Tauzin, you being with us.
TAUZIN: Lou, it's always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.
DOBBS: That brings us to our "Quote of the Day" on the consequences in fact of today's FCC vote. "People will notice every time a new merger goes through, it eliminates a voice in their community, their anger will flash as people surf through the channels only to find more sensationalism, more commercialism, more crassness, more violence, more homogenization and noticeably less serious coverage of news and local events."
That comes from FCC commissioner Jonathan Adelstein. We should point out that sometimes those things do show up in our current media as well.
My next guest says the FCC's decision today will be catastrophic for the public, however. However Michael Wolff is media columnist contributing editor for "New York" magazine and joins us now from our studios in New York City.
Michael, good to have you here.
MICHAEL WOLFF, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Hello, Lou.
DOBBS: You've heard Congressman Tauzin. You've heard FCC Chairman Michael Powell.
Why do you oppose these loosening regulations, this embrace of free speech?
WOLFF: Well, you know, I think it's worth pointing out both in the case of the Congressman and of commissioner Powell that there's an interesting level of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) speak going on here, that what's good for moguls becomes good for consumers, what is clearly an effort to limit choice becomes pro choice. The Congressman was just talking about this as a blow for free speech.
So I think everybody is saying, well, what's going on here?
What are they talking about?
And I think that's the point. This is all a lie. This is all -- this is all an effort to create -- to create an environment which is good for someone other than the consumer, in this case it's what's good for the very top most people who run media companies.
DOBBS: About eight companies by my count control the predominant media outlets in this country in all forms. The fact of the matter is that as Congressman Tauzin pointed out we're talking about the reach of these institutions individually to 45 percent in the case of television stations. What is so terribly important about moving from 35 percent to 45 percent?
WOLFF: Well, I think that's actually a good point. This is a discussion that should have happened 10 years ago. And it's happening now, because we've reached that point, that critical point where suddenly everyone is seeing what's going on and saying, my God, what have we wrought here? But yes, you're absolutely right. It may well be too late. It probably is too late.
DOBBS: It's interesting, is it not, that we have, in terms of the Federal Trade Commission, the Justice Department, an energy merger takes place, and there has to be a swapping of service stations in various markets so there would not be an overlap. It is the same in cable ownership systems. A host of other examples in mergers and acquisitions. Why is it, do you think, that the reasoning here is completely antithetical to that regulatory view from those agencies?
WOLFF: I think the bottom line, the reasoning is that media companies are extraordinarily powerful. There's no more important sector to people in public office, to politicians, than media companies. If they offend the media companies, there goes your career if you're a politician. If you can't get on television and you're a politician, your career is gone there too.
This is -- I can't think of any more important power that politicians have to turn to and bow down to than media power.
DOBBS: Michael Wolff, we thank you very much for joining us to share your views.
WOLFF: Thanks.
DOBBS: Turning now to our "Thought of the Day" on the power of the media. "The media's the most powerful entity on Earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power because they control the minds of the masses." That comes from Malcolm X.
Coming up next here, President Bush, President Clinton, different men, a similar problem. Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider will be here to explain.
And the tables are turned on a well-known television host.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL FRANKEN, AUTHOR: No, no, no,.
BILL O'REILLY, HOST, "THE O'REILLY FACTOR": Hey, shut up! You had your 35 minutes! Shut up!
FRANKEN: This isn't your show.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Fox's Bill O'Reilly, comedian Al Franken. War of words, an unlikely setting. And an appearance on this broadcast. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Moving to political news tonight, a new round of polls concerning President Bush and Democrats. Less than two years ago, the president had a great deal of support from Democrats, but times have changed. Senior political analyst Bill Schneider has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Democrats are increasingly angry and frustrated with President Bush.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I personally am going to do everything I can to make sure that he's not reelected, because I think he's a phenomenally dishonest, dangerous man.
SCHNEIDER: During his first eight months in office, President Bush's job approval rating among Democrats averaged only 30 percent, hardly a honeymoon. September 11 created a huge surge of unity in the country. Democrats rallied to Bush at the end of 2001, giving the president nearly 80 percent support.
But it wore off quickly in 2002, especially after what Democrats saw as the president's harshly divisive midterm election campaign. So far this year, the president has averaged less than 40 percent support from Democrats, the latest figure, 32 percent. Democrats don't like his international policy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I feel as if I've been betrayed.
SCHNEIDER: And they don't like his domestic policy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just an unbelievable tragedy and demonstrates their economic outlook, which is, let's benefit our wealthy constituents and to heck with everybody else.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans cultivated an intense dislike for President Clinton in the 1990s. Has Democrats' antipathy toward Bush reached those epic proportions? The answer is, almost. Republicans' approval of Bill Clinton averaged about 26 percent over his eight years in office. Democrats aren't quite as angry as Bush as Republicans were at Clinton, but they're getting there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that he has really done such damage to this country.
SCHNEIDER: Right now, Democrats say, by nearly 2-1, that they want a candidate who can beat Bush more than a candidate whom they agree with on the issues.
And which candidate would that be? So far, no Democrat has really caught fire. Senator Joe Lieberman leads the field by a small margin because he's the best-known Democrat. But the largest number of Democrats say they can't decide whom to support.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: So the message here is there is an army of angry Democrats looking for somebody to lead them, but you know what, they don't see anybody out there yet.
DOBBS: And it's amazing, Bill, it was just a few months ago that it looked as though there might be some depolarization here as between Democrats and Republicans.
SCHNEIDER: No.
DOBBS: But that's gone for certain.
SCHNEIDER: But it's still political in terms of partisan balance, it's still election night 2000.
DOBBS: You certainly have the evidence to support that view. But the idea that people would prefer, Democrats would prefer a candidate who will beat Bush rather than one that would agree with him on issues, that's a startling ratio.
SCHNEIDER: That is. It is startling, because it says their prime motivation is to get Bush out of there and they're not likely to insist on ideological purity. It doesn't have to be the most liberal candidate. It has to be someone they think can beat Bush, which a lot of the Democrats are running on. They say, I'm the guy who can beat Bush. And if that's their argument, they're going to have to prove it.
DOBBS: Lieberman, Kerry, Gephardt leading the pack right now, at least in that poll, and in most of the others that I've seen. What does this augur for 2004 as we move into the serious season?
SCHNEIDER: It means that it's wide open. We have no front- runner, really. Because you saw those figures. The number one candidate in the Democratic field was, I don't know. Democrats were asked, and they said I don't know who I support right now. None of these candidates is particularly well known. Lieberman is the best known because he was on the ticket. But 20 percent isn't much.
DOBBS: Kerry and Dean running hard in different directions, it seems.
SCHNEIDER: Right. That's a very tight contest in New Hampshire, where Dean is from the neighboring state. Dean's the governor of Vermont; Kerry's the senator from Massachusetts. There's brewing a knockdown, drag-out fight between the two of them.
John Kerry, there was a terrific profile of him in the "Washington Post" on Sunday, which described him as "complex, smart, nuanced," and I thought to myself when I read it, those are words people don't use when they talk about George Bush. They don't call Bush complex, nuanced, or even smart.
So in a lot of ways Kerry is the un-Bush. And in the "New York Times" they did a profile of Governor Howard Dean of Vermont, and they described him as appealing to Democrats who are fed up with Al Gore, who said we want someone who's tough, who's in your face. So it could end up being a contest between Kerry, the un-Bush, and Dean, the un- Gore.
DOBBS: It's going to be fascinating. Bill, thank you very much.
SCHNEIDER: Sure. DOBBS: The battle between left and right found a new and interesting venue over the weekend. Talk show host Bill O'Reilly squaring off against political humorist Al Franken this weekend at a normally quiet book seller's luncheon. Franken questioned statements by O'Reilly about an award won by his previous show, "Inside Edition." O'Reilly admitted making a mistake of the tongue, but he certainly didn't stop there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: All he's got in six and a half years is that I misspoke, that I labeled a Polk award a Peabody. He writes it in his book, he tries to make me out to be a liar.
FRANKEN: No, no, no, no, no.
O'REILLY: Hey, shut up! You had your 35 minutes. Shut up!
FRANKEN: This isn't your show, Bill.
O'REILLY: This is what this guy does.
FRANKEN: Bill, you can't tell me ...
O'REILLY: This is what he does, all right? This is what he does.
FRANKEN: Take control, Pat. Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; I think -- wait a minute. I think I need a whistle and a striped shirt here. I'm not to be a referee.
(CROSSTALK)
O'REILLY: Can you please control him?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, I wouldn't want to have been the moderator in that case. That moderator, by the way, Democratic Congresswoman Pat Schroeder (ph). She seemed to be just as surprised as the rest of the book-selling crowd. No winner declared.
A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll, how worried are you that you won't have enough money to retire? A lot, somewhat, a little, not at all. Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. We'll have those results later in the broadcast.
When we come back, the next space race is on to search for life on Mars. We'll tell you who's ahead in the early going.
And it's crippling companies in states all across the country. Casey Wian will report on a decade-old crisis that could be threatening your company. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: In news around the world tonight, dramatic footage from the Baltic Sea. A Chinese freighter sank after colliding with another ship near a Danish resort island. The Chinese ship was carrying 66,000 tons of fertilizer. Incredible pictures.
The race to find life on Mars was launched today with the lift- off of the Mars Express. This is the first of three European Union missions to the Red Planet. NASA will launch its own Mars missions later this month.
Back here on Earth, a decade ago, California, one of several states struggling to control the costs of workers' compensation insurance. Then the problems were fraud and mismanagement. Some of those problems were solved, but these days the workers' comp crisis is back. Casey Wian reports from San Diego, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): David Randal's 17- acre horse farm near San Diego has one employee. His 232-acre spread in Kentucky has nine. But because California's workers' compensation insurance costs have spiraled so high, his bill for just one worker here is slightly larger than his cost for nine in Kentucky.
DAVID RANDAL, OWNER, FALLBROOK FARM: We will eventually be out of the horse business in California. It's a function of cost, as well as ability to make money.
WIAN: Randal's workers' comp bill is about a third of his California employee's salary. Statewide, out-of-control workers' comp costs are forcing employers to cut jobs, move elsewhere, or shut down.
Anchor Audio makes portable sound systems. Its annual workers' comp bill doubled to $160,000 this year, largely, the company says, because of two questionable claims.
DAVID JACOBS, PRES. & CEO, ANCHOR AUDIO: The first case was a salesman that claimed that he hurt his ankle standing in a trade show booth. The second case, a clerk was sitting at a computer and complained about neck pains. She saw the doctor, and apparently got into the clutches of the doctor who was renowned as being the largest churner in Southern California of medical cases.
WIAN (on camera): The rising cost of workers' compensation insurance is one force driving Anchor Audio to automate more of its manufacturing process. The company has cut its work force by about 40 percent during the past two years.
(voice-over): In addition to questionable and fraudulent claims, California's workers' comp system has been hammered by rapidly rising medical costs and by insurers abandoning the market. Many cut rates during the 1990s to gain market share, then were battered by investment losses. So many businesses now have no option but the state workers' comp fund, which is also in financial trouble. Since 2000, the state fund's number of policies has jumped 20 percent, while premiums have risen more than 10 times as fast. California's insurance commissioner visiting a low-income senior citizens center facing staff reductions, service cuts, or both, urged lawmakers to quickly pass reforms.
JOHN GARAMENDI, CALIF. INSURANCE COMMISSIONER: Without it, we're going to see the workers' compensation system collapse. We're going to see businesses leave this state. We're going to see this economy in further turmoil.
WIAN: California is only one of several states, including Florida and Texas, struggling to control workers' comp costs. And a growing number of companies, from Costco to CKE Restaurants, say workers' comp costs are eating into profits.
Casey Wian, CNN, San Diego.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: When we come back, we'll share some of your thoughts about the state of the economy and the preliminary results of our poll tonight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our poll question tonight, how worried are you that you won't have enough money to retire? Seventy-one percent said a lot. Fourteen percent said somewhat; 7 percent said a little, only 8 percent said not at all.
Taking a look now at your thoughts. G. Williams of Ohio wrote to say: "The problem with the economy is now permanent. Globalization has taken millions of jobs across the border. When thousands of engineers are out of the job, but the big companies are sending work to countries like India, those jobs are not coming up. It's a Faustian bargain."
Gene Foradori (ph) of West Virginia: "For those complaining about foreigners taking American jobs, whatever happened to America reinventing itself? Now all I hear is people sitting around and whining. Pick yourself up and move on. Find something new. That's what Americans have done before."
Larry Stansberry of Oklahoma wrote: "I've been unemployed for a year and I am not one of the privileged who gets an extension of unemployment benefits, but I will receive $400 from last year's taxes. I will use it to pay my attorney fee when I file for bankruptcy."
We appreciate hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@cnn.com. Thanks for being with us tonight. Tomorrow our guests include Senator Charles Grassley. We'll be talking about the tax cuts that he shepherded through the Senate, and the state of the economy. Former defense secretary and regular contributor to this broadcast, William Cohen, joins us. We'll continue our series of special reports, "Vanishing Retirement." For all of us here, good night tonight from Washington, D.C.
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