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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Rudolph Refuses to Enter Plea; Bush Arrives in Egypt
Aired June 02, 2003 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): No longer on the run. Eric Rudolph learns where he will stand trial first.
EMILY LYONS, BOMB VICTIM: You know, we have waited five years for this day...
SEAN DEVEREUX, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR RUDOLPH: He has been portrayed some over the years -- and the media has some sort of zealot or fanatic, and he is not.
BLITZER: Where was he for five years? We will go into the woods.
President Bush moves on to the Mideast. Has he put in problems in Europe behind him?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's no question where Jacques Chirac stood. And I made it clear where I stood.
BLITZER: Does the body language tell the story?
Where are the weapons? The U.S. and Britain answer increasing criticism.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It wasn't a figment of anyone's imagination.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The idea that we doctored such intelligence is completely and totally false.
BLITZER: And the big anniversary for Britain's queen. Pomp, pageantry, and a surprising special guest.
ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, live from the nation's capital, with correspondents from around the world. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: It's Monday, June 2, 2003. Hello from Washington. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting. A day of fast-moving developments in the case of the accused bomber, Eric Robert Rudolph. He appeared in court in North Carolina this morning before being whisked away to Alabama to stand trial. We have reports for you from CNN's Brian Cabell. He's in Alabama, and CNN's Gary Tuchman and Art Harris. They are in North Carolina. Let's begin with Brian. What's the latest there, Brian?
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Eric Rudolph, Wolf, is spending his first night in the Jefferson County jail here in Birmingham. He got here, oh, about three or four hours ago. He arrived amid very heavy security at the airport early this afternoon, arrived in a caravan here at the courthouse just about, as I say, three hours ago, again amid very heavy security. It was at this very spot, as a matter of fact, just about five years ago, that it was first announced he was a suspect in this case. And today he arrived back as a prisoner.
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MIKE HALE, SHERIFF, JEFFERSON COUNTY, ALABAMA: He cooperated fully, answered all the questions. No medical problems or anything like that. He asked about an attorney and had a card that he gave us. That would be his attorney of record. And it just went very -- went very smooth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABELL: According to the sheriff, he said he had no particular medical problems. He asked for no special diet. He'll be staying in an isolation cell here. He'll be watched 24 hours by camera, and a deputy will come by every 15 minutes to eyeball him. He'll be able to watch TV outside of his cell. He will also be allowed some reading materials, but those will be monitored.
He also, of course, will be allowed visitors, but once again, those will be monitored by federal officials. He's charged with two counts in this bombing case at a clinic just about two or three miles from this spot.
In that bombing, at a woman's clinic back in 1998, one person was killed, an off-duty policeman by the name of Robert Sanderson. His widow still lives in this area. And a nurse arriving for work, by the name of Emily Lyon. She also is still residing in this area and she says she's been waiting for this day for some five years now.
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LYONS: Every day he's with me. My face is damaged, and when I see it, I know who did it to me. The rest of my body, I look at it, and it's not the body I used to have, and the only reason I don't have what I did is because someone disagreed with what I believed in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABELL: Lyons says she only has one question for him if she's able to see him here in Birmingham, and that is, why? Why did you do this to me? As for Rudolph, he faces a possible death penalty. That could come if he's convicted and that decision will be made by the Justice Department -- Wolf. BLITZER: Brian Cabell in Birmingham, Alabama. Thanks, Brian, very much. The transfer to Alabama came after the brief but critical court appearance this morning in North Carolina. Our national correspondent Gary Tuchman is in Asheville. He's picking up that part of the story -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, hello to you. The federal government spent millions of dollars over the last half decade to try to find Eric Rudolph. Today it spent another piece of change to try to protect him. He flew 110 miles from Murphy, North Carolina where he was captured, to Asheville, North Carolina, right here where he had his first appearance in court, inside the courthouse behind me. He sat right next to a court-appointed attorney who just got the case last night.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEVEREUX: He is not guilty of the charges.
TUCHMAN: The federal government told Rudolph, sitting in court in a bulletproof vest, that it wanted him sent to Alabama to stand trial. And after that to Georgia for another trial.
Rudolph listened quietly with occasional whispers to his attorney as the prosecutor spent 20 minutes reading the 21-count indictment involving four bombings, including the one at Atlanta Centennial Olympic Park, which killed one woman and injured more than 100 other people.
ROBERT CONRAD, JR., U.S. DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The court advised the defendant of his rights urn the law.
TUCHMAN: Which included the right to plead guilty right away in North Carolina and not be extradited. Rudolph and his attorney chose not to do that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: The defense attorney says Rudolph has acknowledged no wrongdoing, but he says that Rudolph told police the whereabouts of at least one of the campsites.
Now we asked the lawyer what was found at those campsites. Were there guns found there? Was there a booby trap? And the attorney said no guns, no booby trap. The only thing that he knows that was found at the campsite -- and this is his claim, the attorney -- was a biography of Gandhi. So don't be surprised if down the road in some court of law, whether it is Alabama or Georgia, you hear a defendant attorney talking about the biography of Gandhi found at the campsite.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Gary Tuchman, in Asheville, North Carolina.
Rudolph, of course, is facing charges in at least four bomb attacks. They include the 1996 bombings during the Olympic games in Atlanta. The blast killed one person, injured more than 100. Then in January 1997, two bombs went off outside a woman's clinic in suburban Atlanta. The explosions were about an hour apart, and investigators say they believe the second one was aimed at emergency personnel.
One month later there was an attack at a gay bar in Atlanta. In all, 11 people were injured in those two bombings. The Birmingham clinic attack followed about a year later. An off-duty officer was killed and a nurse severely injured.
Back in North Carolina, investigators are combing the woods right now where Rudolph is believed to have spent most of the last five years hiding. CNN investigative correspondent, Art Harris, is there with a look at what they are finding, what they may be afraid of is still out there, potentially a lot of developments. Art, tell us what you've discovered today.
ART HARRIS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we were up in the woods today in the Nantahala National Forest, very rugged terrain, where law enforcement told us they had found a secret survival camp used by Eric Rudolph. That makes two camps in two days, Wolf.
The first was found behind me here in Murphy, North Carolina, on a ridge line where they found a makeshift, very crude short of shack with plywood boards and a tarpaulin, and then today's camp is about five miles away, atop a very, very high mountain, so rugged in fact, that we were told we would not want to go up there. An FBI agent coming down said he was in great shape. He was a runner, and it was very, very tough for him.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Art, what about all the speculation that he may have received some help from people in this remote area, because we're getting a lot of conflicting reports on that.
HARRIS: Well, Wolf, there is some strong sentiment, anti- government feeling, here in the community. The large majority are very law abiding and glad he's been caught. But these who are sympathetic are certainly not coming forward. I talked to several agents this morning who have been trying to talk to individuals.
They've not been forthcoming yet but it's going to be a tough case to prove. If someone leaves food in the backyard. If somebody leaves a pair of shoes, perhaps, they bought, how do you track that back? Very difficult to prove. One concern, though, is what could be up in the woods.
There was a theft of about 200 pounds of dynamite here several years ago, and Eric Rudolph is believed to have taken that dynamite. It is volatile over time and searchers want to know where that is.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: All right, Art Harris reporting for us, thanks, Art, very much. Let's get additional perspective, now, on this case. We're joined by our CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. He is in New York. Jeffrey, why did they pick Alabama instead of Georgia, given the nature of the first bombing, the alleged bombing at the Olympic games, a very high-profile act?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, attorney general John Ashcroft's statement said that they wanted to do the simple, straightforward case first. As you pointed out in your summary, there was one bombing in Birmingham, and there were three different events and four bombings -- four bombs -- in the Atlanta area.
It's much simpler to prove a single case than a multiple bombing case. Also, apparently, there is an eyewitness in the Birmingham case that ties Rudolph to that crime, so that crime, in theory at least, is the easier crime to charge. They want to start with the case they are sure they are going to win, and that's why they went with Birmingham first.
BLITZER: Is it a foregone conclusion that he'll face the death penalty?
TOOBIN: Well, it's not a legal conclusion, but boy, it certainly seems that way. The attorney general, John Ashcroft, has been aggressive in seeking the death penalty, even overruling local prosecutors who don't want to seek it. Here you have extreme premeditation. You have multiple deaths -- two different people dying.
Based on everything that this justice department has done so far, it would seem to me a foregone conclusion that they are going to ask for the death penalty. Who knows if they'll get it.
BLITZER: I'm sure you were listening to the news conference. His court appointed attorney has -- who suggested federal authorities were bending over backwards to make sure they gave him all of his rights, his Miranda rights, calling in a lawyer even before the first court procedure. That suggests that they don't want to screw this up early on.
TOOBIN: No, it certainly does suggest that they are dotting all the "I"s and crossing all the "T"s. The -- and it looks like Rudolph made no statements, so there probably is no significant -- they served their purpose. They didn't get -- they gave him a lawyer and the lawyer kept him quiet. But it does suggest they are bending over backwards to make sure in this extremely high profile case, they are doing everything right.
BLITZER: CNN's Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst. Thanks, Jeffrey, very much.
Here's your turn to weigh in on this story. "Our Web Question of the Day" is this. Can Eric Robert Rudolph get a fair trial? You can vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you are there, I'd love to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.
President Bush on what many consider to be mission impossible right now. Can he do what no man or woman has ever done before?
Plus, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Was the threat overstated to justify war? The U.S.-led coalition right now on the defensive.
And who owns what you are watching? Mega media companies get the green light to buy up even more. All that. First today's "News Quiz."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER (voice-over): What is the largest media company in the world? General Electric, Walt Disney Company, AOL Time Warner, Newscorp? The answer coming up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: What's in a handshake or a bear hug? A lot, if you are President Bush. Do his gestures speak volumes about who is in good standing and who is not? That story, much more coming up.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. President Bush has wrapped up his meetings in Europe, and he's now moved on to the middle east for a new round of summit sessions aimed at trying to end the Israeli- Palestinian conflict. Our White House correspondent, Dana Bash is joining us now live from Sharm el-Sheik, the southern most tip of Sinai in Egypt. Dana, tell us what is happening.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well, President Bush's arrival here a couple of hours ago marks the first time he's been in the Mideast in his 2 1/2 years in office. And this first stop in the region will include meetings with Arab leaders.
He'll meet individually with his host, Hosni Mubarak, and a couple of others. In addition they will have a wide-ranging meeting with the man that they're intending to prop up and perhaps legitimize here, and that is the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas.
White House officials say that's a primary goal of this summit is to show the world, to see and be seen with him, to show that he is a legitimate leader and legitimate negotiator as they embark on the road map for peace.
Now, before coming here to Egypt, President Bush was in Evian, France, where he started to melt the ice with President Jacques Chirac of France. While there, the two men did appear before the cameras and talk about the Mideast peace process. President Bush saying it will be a difficult process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: My expectations of the Middle East are to call all the respective parties to their responsibility to achieve peace. And to make it very clear that my country and I will put in as much time as necessary to achieve the vision of two states living side by side in peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And this meeting here in Egypt is a lead-up to another very important meeting. President Bush then heads to Aqaba, Jordan, where he'll meet with both Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas. The three will meet together in a three-way summit, and this, of course, marks an extraordinary turn for President Bush in his strategy in dealing with the region.
Up until now he has been reluctant to use the prestige of the presidency to force two sides, he said, into a negotiation, that he said, that they did not want. And, Wolf, a reminder of just how different President Bush is dealing with this than his predecessor. On the way here we saw a large billboard from 1996 with a bunch of leaders, including Bill Clinton, who was here a number of times in search for Mideast peace process.
It is certainly a reminder of how differently George Bush has attempted to reach peace or dealt with the region as opposed to his predecessor. And it's also important to note that in this meeting here in Sharm el-Sheikh we'll not see one important figure, and that is Yasser Arafat. He was not invited here -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Dana Bash in Sharm el-Sheik. I was there for that 1996 summit as well. Thanks very much, Dana, for that report.
President Bush and key European leaders fought a series of skirmishes over Iraq. But now that the real war is over, at least for now, have they made peace? Rather than listening to what they say, we may need to watch how they act.
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BLITZER (voice-over): If you are coming into this a little late, maybe six months late, here's a quick way to catch up on U.S. relations with traditional European allies. Watch the body language.
President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, is quoted as having said "punish France, isolate Germany and forgive Russia" for the position each took on the war with Iraq. During the president's swing through Europe, some of that was evident. Some wasn't.
BUSH: We'd like a cup of coffee, please.
BLITZER: His appearances with the G-8 summit's host, French President Jacques Chirac, could hardly be considered warm but also weren't as chilly as many had expected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not easy to forget. Not easy to forgive, but it's improving today in a job.
BLITZER: The same cannot be said of the interaction or lack of it with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. A cold shoulder for Schroeder, who used his opposition to the Iraq war to get himself re- elected. At the photo ops, the president and the chancellor kept their distance.
For Russia's Vladimir Putin, a friendly pat on the knee in St. Petersburg. Mr. Bush was all over Polish President Alexander Kwasniewski, who actually sent troops to fight in this war. Evidence the administration's position that we have to move on might apply to some more than others.
On the defensive, over Iraq...
BLAIR: The idea that we doctored such intelligence is completely and totally false.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The allies blast back over weapons of mass destruction. But is there any truth to the criticism? We'll take a closer look.
Plus -- rights and wrongs. Has the war on terror gone too far? A debate. That's still to come.
And a royal coming out party.
First, in case you were enjoying yourself these past couple of days, here's "Our Weekend Snapshot."
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BLITZER (voice-over): At least 25 tornadoes were spotted sweeping across central and northern Illinois. There was extensive damage in towns of Clinton, Joliette and Lockport, but no deaths or serious injuries.
Heavy rain and melting snow caused flooding that opened a sinkhole on Colorado's main east-west highway. I-70 was closed near the resort town of Vail.
The Atlantic hurricane season officially began with at least one expert predicting lots of activity in the coming months including 14 named storms. The long-term average is under 10.
A former stray dog taken in by American forces in Iraq arrives in the United States. Regulations almost blocked the trip until the Pentagon agreed to deem Fluffy military surplus. That cleared the way for a tail-wagging reunion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my gosh! Nemo's swimming out to sea!
BLITZER: Disney's latest offering set the box office record for an animated film. "Finding Nemo" took in more than $70 million in its opening weekend. PAUL MCCARTNEY, MUSICIAN: It's great to be home.
BLITZER: And Paul McCartney capped off his 14-month world tour right in his hometown. Thirty thousand people packed the docks in Liverpool for the open-air concert which McCartney has said will not be his last.
And that's "Our Weekend Snapshot."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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BLITZER: Welcome back. The failure by the United States to find lots of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, or even confirmation they existed before the war began, is raising new questions. Did the U.S. and Britain overstate the evidence or mislead the world about the weight of the intelligence? Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the Pentagon is getting increasingly defensive about the questions being raised about how conclusive the evidence was before the U.S. went to war in Iraq. And specifically, whether the U.S. and Great Britain overstated the evidence to mislead the world.
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MCINTYRE: Colin Powell says his presentation to the United Nations February 5 followed three straight days of preparation during which he grilled CIA analysts late into the night about the quality of U.S. intelligence. In Rome, Powell says he still stands by that report.
POWELL: There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It wasn't a figment of anyone's imagination.
MCINTYRE: But an administration official tells CNN Powell did have doubts about evidence linking Iraq to al Qaeda, and included the reference only after being persuaded by the White House. The failure of the U.S. to find any banned weapons so far has some in Congress calling for hearings into whether the case against Iraq was overstated or even intentionally inflated.
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-IN), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: After all the facts are in, it looks as if the intelligence are simply wrong. I think we need to do two things. First, get to the bottom of why errors in judgment were made, and secondly, I think there will be a heightened level of skepticism.
MCINTYRE: A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows for now, two- thirds of Americans seem willing to give President Bush the benefit of the doubt. Asked whether the Bush administration deliberately misled the American public about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, 31 percent said, yes, it deliberately misled, but 67 percent said, no, it did not. Britain's prime minister, Tony Blair, is facing a more skeptical public and criticism from within his own party.
BLAIR: The idea that Saddam Hussein has, for 12 years, been obstructing the U.N. weapons inspectors, has been engaged in this huge battle with the international community, when all the way along he'd actually destroyed these weapons, is completely absurd.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: So where are the weapons? It's clear that the intelligence suggesting they may have been deployed on the battlefield was wrong, and some administration officials are now beginning to think that in an effort to ride out the U.N. sanctions, Saddam Hussein may have destroyed any large stockpiles and hidden the production facilities in commercial dual-use facilities -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thanks, Jamie, very much for that solid report.
National security and civil rights. Should one be sacrificed for the other? That debate when we return. Also, mega media. More stations, fewer owners. Does it change what you'll see on television?
Plus, battle of the best selling authors. Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken have at it in a huge, angry war of words.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.
Has the war on terror trampled some of all of our civil rights?
The results of an internal Justice Department investigation.
First, the latest headlines.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: A new Justice Department report is highly critical of the way the government treated hundreds of detainees after the September 11 attacks, saying that some were subjected to verbal and physical abuse.
Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena broke this story right here on Friday. She's joining us now live with the latest -- Kelly.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this report, which focuses on the detention of illegal immigrants has been anticipated for months. And it focuses entirely on how detainees were treated in the aftermath of September 11.
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ARENA (voice-over): Investigating the September 11 attacks presented enormous challenges. Still the Justice Department's inspector general says that is no excuse for significant problems in how illegal immigrants caught up in the terrorist hunt were treated. GLENN FINE, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INSPECTOR GENERAL: The FBI did not take sufficient care to determine which ones were special interest to their investigation and which ones were not. We also found problems in the pace of the clearance process undertaken by the FBI.
ARENA: Detainees were held until cleared of a terrorist tie and the new report says that took too long, an average of 80 days. Some detainees held at this federal correctional facility in New York were not told for more than a month why they were in custody. Their access to lawyers was severely limited and some detainees here were physically and verbally abused by guards.
FINE: We found evidence indicating some in some cases detainees were slammed against the wall. That the correctional officers steps on chains while they were walking, some officers bent their fingers and arms back.
ARENA: Some detainees were subject to lights on in their cells 24 hours a day for months. Claims of mistreatment are being investigated, but on all other counts, Justice officials insist they acted legally. The point out all 762 detainees referred to in the report were in the United States illegally. In a statement, the department said, quote, "Our policy is to use all legal tools available to protect innocent Americans from terrorist attacks. We make no apologies for finding every legal way possible to protect the American public."
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ARENA: Several former detainees have filed lawsuits against the government. Critics say the new report provides them ammunition. Sources say that some Justice officials involved in crafting and implementing the policy have been encouraged to obtain their own legal counsel -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Interesting, Kelli Arena, thanks for that good reporting.
Joining us to talk more about this inspector general report from the Justice Department, Brad Berenson. He is a former White House counsel in the Bush administration. And the executive director of the ACLU Anthony Romero. Thanks to both of you very much.
First to you, Brad, this is pretty embarrassing stuff for the Bush administration that you guys, your former official in the White House have to now defend this behavior right after 9/11.
BRAD BERENSON, FORMER ASSOCIATE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Well, I actually don't agree that this is a significant embarrassment for the administration. None of the conduct in this report was illegal. The report in fact confirms that the office of Legal Counsel and the Justice Department blessed all the things that were matters of policy. As for the physical and verbal abuse, that was not a matter of policy. That was a few isolated instances of misconduct by individual corrections officers. Now no one would excuse that. On the other hand, given that they are up there in New York the immediate aftermath of 9/11, it's not difficult to understand why feelings may have run high.
BLITZER: All right, Anthony, do you have the same assessment?
ANTHONY ROMERO, EXEC. DIR. ACLU: No, not at all. In fact, the inspector general goes quite far to say that not with standing the difficulty and hectic events that happened after 9/11, the Justice Department went too far too fast. It talked about the haphazard and indiscriminate way it which it prosecuted the war on terrorism. And how it quickly turned into a war on immigrants. They raised serious concerns about our civil liberties, and how the justice department, even itself, was at odds and had the base for the Justice Department about how best to prosecute the war on terror.
BLITZER: And on that specific point, Brad, you heard Kelli Arena say at the end of a report that some top officials of the Justice Department are now being encouraged to go hire private attorneys in case they are sued by some of these immigrants who were picked up.
BERENSON: Yes. I don't know the truth of that report, but I don't see anything in the report that would give them grounds for personal legal liability or especially to require the retention of private counsel. I don't see why counsel for the government, why Justice Department couldn't -- Justice Department lawyers could not represent these officials. All of these actions were taken in good faith. All of them appear to comply with the law, and we have to remember that every single person that we're talking about here was a law breaker, was a person who violated federal law, in most cases immigration laws, civil or criminal.
BLITZER: Lets Anthony respond to that go ahead.
ROMERO: What's remarkable is the fact the Justice Department has encouraged the individuals to secure individual legal counsel. We saw that in press reports and we've heard that elsewhere throughout the weekend. If the Justice Department really thought there was nothing wrong or illegal or unconstitutional about its actions. We find it curious they'd be encouraging government officials to hiring lawyers. Then you read the actual, 198 page document, and you see that the Justice Department goes quite far in terms of abuse and treatment of some detainees in the treatment centers. Remarkably, Wolf, that in one detention center, that the tapes -- videotapes that could have documented the conditions of confinement or abuse of prisoners were destroyed. It talks about official policies set by the Justice Department.
BLITZER: Well, let me have Brad weigh in on that.
Do you have any evidence to suggest or confirm that documents were destroyed?
BERENSON: I have no evidence either way on that. I haven't any idea whether that's true.
BLITZER: Because that's a serious allegation, right, Anthony?
What specifically are you referred to? ROMERO: Towards the end of the report, I think around page 170, they talk about videotapes that had been taken at MAC, the Metropolitan Detention Center, that had been destroyed and taped over. These were taped that were being used to be able to corroborate or to track the abuse or treatment of the conditions of confinement in prison.
BLITZER: Brad, you've had a chance, Brad, to look at this inspector general's report. Looking back with hindsight, of course, remembering the mood right after 9/11, what if anything do you think the administration should have done perhaps differently?
BERENSON: Well, there are things the administration could have done differently. I mean, no one is going to argue absolutely everything was done perfectly. But under the circumstances, I think the standard of perfection is probably a little too much to expect. My overall reaction reading the report was that given what had happened to this country on 9/11 this country did about as well as any country in the world probably would have under the circumstances, and the record, while not perfect, was still pretty darn good.
BLITZER: And Anthony, you have to give the administration, the Justice Department credit for coming out with this inspector general's report, not covering up perhaps some mistakes in this policy.
ROMERO: It's the inspector general who draws entirely the contrary conclusion to the one Brad just drew. And what for us is breath taking and remarkable is the level and extent of the scathing criticism you find within the Justice Department's own report. The fact that they fully documented the abuse issues, and fully addressed for us the concerns around immigrants rights in the aftermath of 9/11, gives us reason to believe this is just the beginning of the debate, not the end of it.
BLITZER: The debate will continue. Unfortunately not here because we're all out of time. Brad Berenson, thanks very much. Anthony Romero, thanks to you as well.
Think a book convention is simply a laid-back meeting ground? Think again. Two very popular authors get in a heated argument. What were Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken yelling about? We'll play it for you, next.
First, a look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Fighting in Congo. A warring faction accuses a rival faction of killing almost 350 people, most of them civilians.
A Ugandan military commander says at least 100 people were killed in weekend fighting. The latest reports come as the French-led international force is due in the northeastern part of the country to try to stop the fighting. North Korea's nukes. An American congressman just back from North Korea says the communist nation once again admitted having nuclear weapons and plans to build more.
Republican Curt Weldon of Pennsylvania also reports the North says it has almost finished reprocessing spent fuel rods, a move that could produce more nuclear weapons within month.
China's great dam. Gates to the controversial Three Gorges Dam on the Yangtze river have been shut, starting the process of filling a 355-mile reservoir. China says the massive project is critical for national power and controlling the Yangtze river. Critics say the $25 billion project will create ecological disaster.
Mission to Mars. An unmanned European spacecraft is headed for Mars. In the first of three missions set for this month, the Mars Express was launched by a Russian rocket and is expected to orbit Mars for two years in search for signs of life on the planet.
Ship sinking. A Chinese freighter sank in the Baltic Sea after a collision with a Cypress-registered ship. It happened off Denmark over the weekend. All crew members were picked up by a Danish rescue vessel. An investigation into the cause of the accident is under way.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- what's the largest media company in the world? The answer, AOL Time Warner, the parent company of this network.
In a highly controversial move, the Republican-controlled Federal Communications Commission today relaxed some key rules restricting media ownership. Critics say the new rules could result in a few giant media companies controlling what you see, hear and read. CNN national correspondent Bob Franken is joining us now live to tell us what this ruling really means -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it raises the question, whether the FCC's three Republican, two Democrat vote will mean fewer owners and ultimately mean fewer choices and worse choices.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN ADELSTEIN, FCC COMMISSIONER: More sensationalism. More commercialism. More crassness. More violence. More homogenization, and noticeably less serious coverage of news and local events.
MICHAEL POWELL, FCC CHAIRMAN: I believe that our actions will advance our diversity and localism goals and maintain a vigorously independent environment.
FRANKEN: The order allows major media companies, including the networks, to own TV stations in markets covering 45 percent of the nation's population, up from 35 percent. It will allow a single owner to buy at least two TV stations in all but the smallest markets, and three in the very biggest, and it will allow a single media organization to own a newspaper, TV and radio stations in the same area.
The protests at the FCC were small, but the public response by mail and e-mail has been massive. About three quarters of a million people weighed in. The comment, almost unanimously opposed. Almost all complain the competition of ideas will be swept aside by a lack of media competition.
But supporters of the changes say the old rules were relics of a distant past.
KEVIN MARTIN, FCC COMMISSIONER: No CNN, no Fox, no NBC, no CNBC. Local news broadcast by the local stations just once at 6:00, and just once at 11:00.
FRANKEN: Maybe so. But for dissenters complain that the bigger selection is really controlled by a smaller group of companies. They point to the experience of radio deregulation, which allowed one company, for instance, Clear Channel Communications, to acquire 1,200 stations nationwide. And that meant they contend less local content, more automation. In one celebrated case, no one was there to answer the frantic phone calls from officials in Minot (ph), North Dakota, wanting to spread the word of a poisonous gas cloud from a train derailment.
MICHAEL COPPS, FCC COMMISSIONER: Clear Channel-ization of the rest of the American media will harm our country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: In any case, the FCC decision is clearly not the last word. There will certainly be court tests, Wolf, and Congress will weigh in. Already 150 House and Senate members have expressed their opposition to this decision -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bob Franken, thanks very much for that report.
Normally the Annual Book Sellers and Publishers Convention is a rather staid affair. Authors appear to promote their upcoming books, but this past weekend, things were anything but staid at the convention in Los Angeles. That's because Fox News' Bill Reilly and humorist Al Franken, both promoting their new books, which will be out in the fall, had a blistering exchange.
Franken's book is entitled "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right." O'Reilly's book is titled, "Who's Looking Out for You." He spoke first and was rather, at least relatively mild in his presentation. Franken followed, and that's when things got nasty very quickly, when he said liberals like himself were going to start attacking conservatives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AL FRANKEN, AUTHOR: We're not going to sit for it anymore. We just aren't.
OK. I'll finish for now. I could go on all day.
BILL O'REILLY, AUTHOR: I know you could.
FRANKEN: And I know you could, too.
O'REILLY: You just about have. You just about have.
FRANKEN: Yes, you tell them, Bill.
O'REILLY: We're supposed to be on here for 15 minutes. This idiot goes 35. OK? All he's gotten in six and a half years is that I misspoke, that I labeled a Polk award a Peabody. He writes it in his book, he tries to make it out to be lies...
FRANKEN: No, no, no...
O'REILLY: Hey, shut up! You had your 35 minutes! Shut up!
FRANKEN: This isn't your show, Bill.
O'REILLY: This is what this guy does.
FRANKEN: Bill, you can't...
O'REILLY: This is what this guy does, all right? This is what he does.
FRANKEN: Take control, Pat. Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I think I need a whistle and a striped shirt here. I'm not to be a referee.
(CROSSTALK)
O'REILLY: Can you please control him? This guy accused me of being a liar, ladies and gentlemen, on national television, because I misspoke and labeled a Peabody a Polk. I didn't mention we won four National Headliners, OK? This is what this guy does. He demonizes it, all right? And then other people pick it up. Now, if it's important to you that I misspoke and labeled a Peabody a Polk, that's fine.
FRANKEN: You didn't just misspeak!
O'REILLY: That's fine. That's fine, OK?
This is what he does. He is vicious, and that is with a capital "v" person who is blinded by ideology. And that's all I'll say about him. Rebut.
FRANKEN: I do tell the truth. And when I -- and if I do get caught, or if I do say something wrong, I admit it. And the whole point of what I said here was that when you were caught, you lash back... O'REILLY: Look, if this is all you got, we heard it, Al. If this is all you got after six and a half years, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
FRANKEN: No, I told you it isn't all I have.
O'REILLY: You're pathetic. If this is all you got after six and a half years, you are pathetic.
FRANKEN: I told you it isn't all I got.
O'REILLY: You're pathetic.
FRANKEN: It isn't all I got! I got a lot more!
O'REILLY: And if it's as lame as that, it's unbelievable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: If you haven't seen this presentation on C-Span, they might be replaying it. You probably would want to watch the entire presentation. By the way, whatever their disagreements, and they have plenty, they do have something very much in common. Based on their publishing track records, both books are likely to become best sellers.
A mistress and a mom have a moment of reconciliation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Richard Quest at Buckingham Palace. Why did the queen invite 500 children to spend the afternoon in her back garden and Camilla Parker Bowles to spend the morning in church? I'll tell you next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll go to London for the royal party that's raising eyebrows. You have to see this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Fifty years ago today, a 27-year-old mother of two was crowned queen and today Britain's Elizabeth II mark the anniversary with a service of thanksgiving and a children's party at her palace. CNN's Richard Quest has more now from London.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST (voice-over): This was the day for the solemn ceremony and a sunny time in the garden. Remembering half a century since her coronation, Queen Elizabeth decided the day should be low-key. It started as it did 50 years ago at Westminster Abby with a service of thanksgiving.
VERY REV. WESLEY CARR, DEAN OF WESTMINSTER: On this, the 50th anniversary of the coronation, we join Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, our queen, as she again presents herself to God. And we the congregation recognize her by thanking god for her leadership.
QUEST: In the congregation was Camilla Parker Bowles, prince Charles' companion. They didn't arrive together, they didn't sit together, but the mere fact they were there together is considered a royal development.
Then a chance to remember a more simple time with a fun fair in the palace grounds. Five hundred less privileged children came to the queen's home for tea. It's not every day the palace has a castle, even a bouncy castle in its grounds.
(on camera): Did you have a good time here at the palace?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
QUEST: Lovely. Well you still got some ice cream. Come on, keep going with that.
(voice-over): The queen spends as long as necessary to go around the lawn, meeting the children and finally, cutting the cake. There were no fancy ornaments this year, no golden coaches, no parades. Just homely fun in the back garden.
(on camera): The palace will be very pleased, not only with the Golden Jubilee last year, the huge pomp and ceremony, but also from the quieter celebrations commemorating the 50th anniversary of the coronation. Now they just have to plan what to do for the Diamond Jubilee. There's just 10 years to go.
Richard Quest, CNN, Buckingham Palace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Richard.
We're getting some new information over at the Pentagon on a very disturbing incident in the Persian Gulf. When we come back, we'll go live to Jamie McIntyre for details.
Also, the results of "Our Web Question of the Day." Can Eric Robert Rudolph get a fair trial? That, much more, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We have some disturbing information just coming in from the Pentagon. our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre, once again, is joining us now live with details -- Jamie.
MCINTYRE: Well, Wolf, 4 soldiers and some civilian contractors on small boats in the Shat al-Ahrab (ph) waterway were taken into custody by Iranian authorities yesterday as they were heading down to the Al Fah Peninsula to pick up some oil workers. Pentagon sources say the American soldiers were blindfolded, taken at gunpoint and questioned overnight before being return unhurt today. Some of the civilians are still being held, the boat captains. Unclear at this time whether the U.S. will launch an official protest -- Wolf. BLITZER: All right, Jamie McIntyre will continue to monitor the story for us. Thanks, Jamie, very much.
Here's how you're weighing in on "our Web Question of the Day." Remember we've been asking you this: can Eric Robert Rudolph get a fair trial? Look at his, 76 percent of you say yes, 24 percent of you say no. As always, remember, this is not a scientific poll.
A reminder, you can always watch us, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, weekday 5 p.m. Eastern. I'll be back tomorrow also at noon Eastern. We'll take a look at the hunt for weapons of mass destruction.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 2, 2003 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): No longer on the run. Eric Rudolph learns where he will stand trial first.
EMILY LYONS, BOMB VICTIM: You know, we have waited five years for this day...
SEAN DEVEREUX, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR RUDOLPH: He has been portrayed some over the years -- and the media has some sort of zealot or fanatic, and he is not.
BLITZER: Where was he for five years? We will go into the woods.
President Bush moves on to the Mideast. Has he put in problems in Europe behind him?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's no question where Jacques Chirac stood. And I made it clear where I stood.
BLITZER: Does the body language tell the story?
Where are the weapons? The U.S. and Britain answer increasing criticism.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It wasn't a figment of anyone's imagination.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The idea that we doctored such intelligence is completely and totally false.
BLITZER: And the big anniversary for Britain's queen. Pomp, pageantry, and a surprising special guest.
ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, live from the nation's capital, with correspondents from around the world. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: It's Monday, June 2, 2003. Hello from Washington. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting. A day of fast-moving developments in the case of the accused bomber, Eric Robert Rudolph. He appeared in court in North Carolina this morning before being whisked away to Alabama to stand trial. We have reports for you from CNN's Brian Cabell. He's in Alabama, and CNN's Gary Tuchman and Art Harris. They are in North Carolina. Let's begin with Brian. What's the latest there, Brian?
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Eric Rudolph, Wolf, is spending his first night in the Jefferson County jail here in Birmingham. He got here, oh, about three or four hours ago. He arrived amid very heavy security at the airport early this afternoon, arrived in a caravan here at the courthouse just about, as I say, three hours ago, again amid very heavy security. It was at this very spot, as a matter of fact, just about five years ago, that it was first announced he was a suspect in this case. And today he arrived back as a prisoner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HALE, SHERIFF, JEFFERSON COUNTY, ALABAMA: He cooperated fully, answered all the questions. No medical problems or anything like that. He asked about an attorney and had a card that he gave us. That would be his attorney of record. And it just went very -- went very smooth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABELL: According to the sheriff, he said he had no particular medical problems. He asked for no special diet. He'll be staying in an isolation cell here. He'll be watched 24 hours by camera, and a deputy will come by every 15 minutes to eyeball him. He'll be able to watch TV outside of his cell. He will also be allowed some reading materials, but those will be monitored.
He also, of course, will be allowed visitors, but once again, those will be monitored by federal officials. He's charged with two counts in this bombing case at a clinic just about two or three miles from this spot.
In that bombing, at a woman's clinic back in 1998, one person was killed, an off-duty policeman by the name of Robert Sanderson. His widow still lives in this area. And a nurse arriving for work, by the name of Emily Lyon. She also is still residing in this area and she says she's been waiting for this day for some five years now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYONS: Every day he's with me. My face is damaged, and when I see it, I know who did it to me. The rest of my body, I look at it, and it's not the body I used to have, and the only reason I don't have what I did is because someone disagreed with what I believed in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABELL: Lyons says she only has one question for him if she's able to see him here in Birmingham, and that is, why? Why did you do this to me? As for Rudolph, he faces a possible death penalty. That could come if he's convicted and that decision will be made by the Justice Department -- Wolf. BLITZER: Brian Cabell in Birmingham, Alabama. Thanks, Brian, very much. The transfer to Alabama came after the brief but critical court appearance this morning in North Carolina. Our national correspondent Gary Tuchman is in Asheville. He's picking up that part of the story -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, hello to you. The federal government spent millions of dollars over the last half decade to try to find Eric Rudolph. Today it spent another piece of change to try to protect him. He flew 110 miles from Murphy, North Carolina where he was captured, to Asheville, North Carolina, right here where he had his first appearance in court, inside the courthouse behind me. He sat right next to a court-appointed attorney who just got the case last night.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEVEREUX: He is not guilty of the charges.
TUCHMAN: The federal government told Rudolph, sitting in court in a bulletproof vest, that it wanted him sent to Alabama to stand trial. And after that to Georgia for another trial.
Rudolph listened quietly with occasional whispers to his attorney as the prosecutor spent 20 minutes reading the 21-count indictment involving four bombings, including the one at Atlanta Centennial Olympic Park, which killed one woman and injured more than 100 other people.
ROBERT CONRAD, JR., U.S. DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The court advised the defendant of his rights urn the law.
TUCHMAN: Which included the right to plead guilty right away in North Carolina and not be extradited. Rudolph and his attorney chose not to do that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: The defense attorney says Rudolph has acknowledged no wrongdoing, but he says that Rudolph told police the whereabouts of at least one of the campsites.
Now we asked the lawyer what was found at those campsites. Were there guns found there? Was there a booby trap? And the attorney said no guns, no booby trap. The only thing that he knows that was found at the campsite -- and this is his claim, the attorney -- was a biography of Gandhi. So don't be surprised if down the road in some court of law, whether it is Alabama or Georgia, you hear a defendant attorney talking about the biography of Gandhi found at the campsite.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Gary Tuchman, in Asheville, North Carolina.
Rudolph, of course, is facing charges in at least four bomb attacks. They include the 1996 bombings during the Olympic games in Atlanta. The blast killed one person, injured more than 100. Then in January 1997, two bombs went off outside a woman's clinic in suburban Atlanta. The explosions were about an hour apart, and investigators say they believe the second one was aimed at emergency personnel.
One month later there was an attack at a gay bar in Atlanta. In all, 11 people were injured in those two bombings. The Birmingham clinic attack followed about a year later. An off-duty officer was killed and a nurse severely injured.
Back in North Carolina, investigators are combing the woods right now where Rudolph is believed to have spent most of the last five years hiding. CNN investigative correspondent, Art Harris, is there with a look at what they are finding, what they may be afraid of is still out there, potentially a lot of developments. Art, tell us what you've discovered today.
ART HARRIS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we were up in the woods today in the Nantahala National Forest, very rugged terrain, where law enforcement told us they had found a secret survival camp used by Eric Rudolph. That makes two camps in two days, Wolf.
The first was found behind me here in Murphy, North Carolina, on a ridge line where they found a makeshift, very crude short of shack with plywood boards and a tarpaulin, and then today's camp is about five miles away, atop a very, very high mountain, so rugged in fact, that we were told we would not want to go up there. An FBI agent coming down said he was in great shape. He was a runner, and it was very, very tough for him.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Art, what about all the speculation that he may have received some help from people in this remote area, because we're getting a lot of conflicting reports on that.
HARRIS: Well, Wolf, there is some strong sentiment, anti- government feeling, here in the community. The large majority are very law abiding and glad he's been caught. But these who are sympathetic are certainly not coming forward. I talked to several agents this morning who have been trying to talk to individuals.
They've not been forthcoming yet but it's going to be a tough case to prove. If someone leaves food in the backyard. If somebody leaves a pair of shoes, perhaps, they bought, how do you track that back? Very difficult to prove. One concern, though, is what could be up in the woods.
There was a theft of about 200 pounds of dynamite here several years ago, and Eric Rudolph is believed to have taken that dynamite. It is volatile over time and searchers want to know where that is.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: All right, Art Harris reporting for us, thanks, Art, very much. Let's get additional perspective, now, on this case. We're joined by our CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. He is in New York. Jeffrey, why did they pick Alabama instead of Georgia, given the nature of the first bombing, the alleged bombing at the Olympic games, a very high-profile act?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, attorney general John Ashcroft's statement said that they wanted to do the simple, straightforward case first. As you pointed out in your summary, there was one bombing in Birmingham, and there were three different events and four bombings -- four bombs -- in the Atlanta area.
It's much simpler to prove a single case than a multiple bombing case. Also, apparently, there is an eyewitness in the Birmingham case that ties Rudolph to that crime, so that crime, in theory at least, is the easier crime to charge. They want to start with the case they are sure they are going to win, and that's why they went with Birmingham first.
BLITZER: Is it a foregone conclusion that he'll face the death penalty?
TOOBIN: Well, it's not a legal conclusion, but boy, it certainly seems that way. The attorney general, John Ashcroft, has been aggressive in seeking the death penalty, even overruling local prosecutors who don't want to seek it. Here you have extreme premeditation. You have multiple deaths -- two different people dying.
Based on everything that this justice department has done so far, it would seem to me a foregone conclusion that they are going to ask for the death penalty. Who knows if they'll get it.
BLITZER: I'm sure you were listening to the news conference. His court appointed attorney has -- who suggested federal authorities were bending over backwards to make sure they gave him all of his rights, his Miranda rights, calling in a lawyer even before the first court procedure. That suggests that they don't want to screw this up early on.
TOOBIN: No, it certainly does suggest that they are dotting all the "I"s and crossing all the "T"s. The -- and it looks like Rudolph made no statements, so there probably is no significant -- they served their purpose. They didn't get -- they gave him a lawyer and the lawyer kept him quiet. But it does suggest they are bending over backwards to make sure in this extremely high profile case, they are doing everything right.
BLITZER: CNN's Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst. Thanks, Jeffrey, very much.
Here's your turn to weigh in on this story. "Our Web Question of the Day" is this. Can Eric Robert Rudolph get a fair trial? You can vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you are there, I'd love to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.
President Bush on what many consider to be mission impossible right now. Can he do what no man or woman has ever done before?
Plus, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Was the threat overstated to justify war? The U.S.-led coalition right now on the defensive.
And who owns what you are watching? Mega media companies get the green light to buy up even more. All that. First today's "News Quiz."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER (voice-over): What is the largest media company in the world? General Electric, Walt Disney Company, AOL Time Warner, Newscorp? The answer coming up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: What's in a handshake or a bear hug? A lot, if you are President Bush. Do his gestures speak volumes about who is in good standing and who is not? That story, much more coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. President Bush has wrapped up his meetings in Europe, and he's now moved on to the middle east for a new round of summit sessions aimed at trying to end the Israeli- Palestinian conflict. Our White House correspondent, Dana Bash is joining us now live from Sharm el-Sheik, the southern most tip of Sinai in Egypt. Dana, tell us what is happening.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well, President Bush's arrival here a couple of hours ago marks the first time he's been in the Mideast in his 2 1/2 years in office. And this first stop in the region will include meetings with Arab leaders.
He'll meet individually with his host, Hosni Mubarak, and a couple of others. In addition they will have a wide-ranging meeting with the man that they're intending to prop up and perhaps legitimize here, and that is the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas.
White House officials say that's a primary goal of this summit is to show the world, to see and be seen with him, to show that he is a legitimate leader and legitimate negotiator as they embark on the road map for peace.
Now, before coming here to Egypt, President Bush was in Evian, France, where he started to melt the ice with President Jacques Chirac of France. While there, the two men did appear before the cameras and talk about the Mideast peace process. President Bush saying it will be a difficult process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: My expectations of the Middle East are to call all the respective parties to their responsibility to achieve peace. And to make it very clear that my country and I will put in as much time as necessary to achieve the vision of two states living side by side in peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And this meeting here in Egypt is a lead-up to another very important meeting. President Bush then heads to Aqaba, Jordan, where he'll meet with both Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas. The three will meet together in a three-way summit, and this, of course, marks an extraordinary turn for President Bush in his strategy in dealing with the region.
Up until now he has been reluctant to use the prestige of the presidency to force two sides, he said, into a negotiation, that he said, that they did not want. And, Wolf, a reminder of just how different President Bush is dealing with this than his predecessor. On the way here we saw a large billboard from 1996 with a bunch of leaders, including Bill Clinton, who was here a number of times in search for Mideast peace process.
It is certainly a reminder of how differently George Bush has attempted to reach peace or dealt with the region as opposed to his predecessor. And it's also important to note that in this meeting here in Sharm el-Sheikh we'll not see one important figure, and that is Yasser Arafat. He was not invited here -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Dana Bash in Sharm el-Sheik. I was there for that 1996 summit as well. Thanks very much, Dana, for that report.
President Bush and key European leaders fought a series of skirmishes over Iraq. But now that the real war is over, at least for now, have they made peace? Rather than listening to what they say, we may need to watch how they act.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): If you are coming into this a little late, maybe six months late, here's a quick way to catch up on U.S. relations with traditional European allies. Watch the body language.
President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, is quoted as having said "punish France, isolate Germany and forgive Russia" for the position each took on the war with Iraq. During the president's swing through Europe, some of that was evident. Some wasn't.
BUSH: We'd like a cup of coffee, please.
BLITZER: His appearances with the G-8 summit's host, French President Jacques Chirac, could hardly be considered warm but also weren't as chilly as many had expected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not easy to forget. Not easy to forgive, but it's improving today in a job.
BLITZER: The same cannot be said of the interaction or lack of it with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. A cold shoulder for Schroeder, who used his opposition to the Iraq war to get himself re- elected. At the photo ops, the president and the chancellor kept their distance.
For Russia's Vladimir Putin, a friendly pat on the knee in St. Petersburg. Mr. Bush was all over Polish President Alexander Kwasniewski, who actually sent troops to fight in this war. Evidence the administration's position that we have to move on might apply to some more than others.
On the defensive, over Iraq...
BLAIR: The idea that we doctored such intelligence is completely and totally false.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The allies blast back over weapons of mass destruction. But is there any truth to the criticism? We'll take a closer look.
Plus -- rights and wrongs. Has the war on terror gone too far? A debate. That's still to come.
And a royal coming out party.
First, in case you were enjoying yourself these past couple of days, here's "Our Weekend Snapshot."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): At least 25 tornadoes were spotted sweeping across central and northern Illinois. There was extensive damage in towns of Clinton, Joliette and Lockport, but no deaths or serious injuries.
Heavy rain and melting snow caused flooding that opened a sinkhole on Colorado's main east-west highway. I-70 was closed near the resort town of Vail.
The Atlantic hurricane season officially began with at least one expert predicting lots of activity in the coming months including 14 named storms. The long-term average is under 10.
A former stray dog taken in by American forces in Iraq arrives in the United States. Regulations almost blocked the trip until the Pentagon agreed to deem Fluffy military surplus. That cleared the way for a tail-wagging reunion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my gosh! Nemo's swimming out to sea!
BLITZER: Disney's latest offering set the box office record for an animated film. "Finding Nemo" took in more than $70 million in its opening weekend. PAUL MCCARTNEY, MUSICIAN: It's great to be home.
BLITZER: And Paul McCartney capped off his 14-month world tour right in his hometown. Thirty thousand people packed the docks in Liverpool for the open-air concert which McCartney has said will not be his last.
And that's "Our Weekend Snapshot."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The failure by the United States to find lots of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, or even confirmation they existed before the war began, is raising new questions. Did the U.S. and Britain overstate the evidence or mislead the world about the weight of the intelligence? Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the Pentagon is getting increasingly defensive about the questions being raised about how conclusive the evidence was before the U.S. went to war in Iraq. And specifically, whether the U.S. and Great Britain overstated the evidence to mislead the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Colin Powell says his presentation to the United Nations February 5 followed three straight days of preparation during which he grilled CIA analysts late into the night about the quality of U.S. intelligence. In Rome, Powell says he still stands by that report.
POWELL: There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It wasn't a figment of anyone's imagination.
MCINTYRE: But an administration official tells CNN Powell did have doubts about evidence linking Iraq to al Qaeda, and included the reference only after being persuaded by the White House. The failure of the U.S. to find any banned weapons so far has some in Congress calling for hearings into whether the case against Iraq was overstated or even intentionally inflated.
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-IN), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: After all the facts are in, it looks as if the intelligence are simply wrong. I think we need to do two things. First, get to the bottom of why errors in judgment were made, and secondly, I think there will be a heightened level of skepticism.
MCINTYRE: A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows for now, two- thirds of Americans seem willing to give President Bush the benefit of the doubt. Asked whether the Bush administration deliberately misled the American public about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, 31 percent said, yes, it deliberately misled, but 67 percent said, no, it did not. Britain's prime minister, Tony Blair, is facing a more skeptical public and criticism from within his own party.
BLAIR: The idea that Saddam Hussein has, for 12 years, been obstructing the U.N. weapons inspectors, has been engaged in this huge battle with the international community, when all the way along he'd actually destroyed these weapons, is completely absurd.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: So where are the weapons? It's clear that the intelligence suggesting they may have been deployed on the battlefield was wrong, and some administration officials are now beginning to think that in an effort to ride out the U.N. sanctions, Saddam Hussein may have destroyed any large stockpiles and hidden the production facilities in commercial dual-use facilities -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thanks, Jamie, very much for that solid report.
National security and civil rights. Should one be sacrificed for the other? That debate when we return. Also, mega media. More stations, fewer owners. Does it change what you'll see on television?
Plus, battle of the best selling authors. Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken have at it in a huge, angry war of words.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.
Has the war on terror trampled some of all of our civil rights?
The results of an internal Justice Department investigation.
First, the latest headlines.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: A new Justice Department report is highly critical of the way the government treated hundreds of detainees after the September 11 attacks, saying that some were subjected to verbal and physical abuse.
Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena broke this story right here on Friday. She's joining us now live with the latest -- Kelly.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this report, which focuses on the detention of illegal immigrants has been anticipated for months. And it focuses entirely on how detainees were treated in the aftermath of September 11.
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ARENA (voice-over): Investigating the September 11 attacks presented enormous challenges. Still the Justice Department's inspector general says that is no excuse for significant problems in how illegal immigrants caught up in the terrorist hunt were treated. GLENN FINE, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INSPECTOR GENERAL: The FBI did not take sufficient care to determine which ones were special interest to their investigation and which ones were not. We also found problems in the pace of the clearance process undertaken by the FBI.
ARENA: Detainees were held until cleared of a terrorist tie and the new report says that took too long, an average of 80 days. Some detainees held at this federal correctional facility in New York were not told for more than a month why they were in custody. Their access to lawyers was severely limited and some detainees here were physically and verbally abused by guards.
FINE: We found evidence indicating some in some cases detainees were slammed against the wall. That the correctional officers steps on chains while they were walking, some officers bent their fingers and arms back.
ARENA: Some detainees were subject to lights on in their cells 24 hours a day for months. Claims of mistreatment are being investigated, but on all other counts, Justice officials insist they acted legally. The point out all 762 detainees referred to in the report were in the United States illegally. In a statement, the department said, quote, "Our policy is to use all legal tools available to protect innocent Americans from terrorist attacks. We make no apologies for finding every legal way possible to protect the American public."
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ARENA: Several former detainees have filed lawsuits against the government. Critics say the new report provides them ammunition. Sources say that some Justice officials involved in crafting and implementing the policy have been encouraged to obtain their own legal counsel -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Interesting, Kelli Arena, thanks for that good reporting.
Joining us to talk more about this inspector general report from the Justice Department, Brad Berenson. He is a former White House counsel in the Bush administration. And the executive director of the ACLU Anthony Romero. Thanks to both of you very much.
First to you, Brad, this is pretty embarrassing stuff for the Bush administration that you guys, your former official in the White House have to now defend this behavior right after 9/11.
BRAD BERENSON, FORMER ASSOCIATE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Well, I actually don't agree that this is a significant embarrassment for the administration. None of the conduct in this report was illegal. The report in fact confirms that the office of Legal Counsel and the Justice Department blessed all the things that were matters of policy. As for the physical and verbal abuse, that was not a matter of policy. That was a few isolated instances of misconduct by individual corrections officers. Now no one would excuse that. On the other hand, given that they are up there in New York the immediate aftermath of 9/11, it's not difficult to understand why feelings may have run high.
BLITZER: All right, Anthony, do you have the same assessment?
ANTHONY ROMERO, EXEC. DIR. ACLU: No, not at all. In fact, the inspector general goes quite far to say that not with standing the difficulty and hectic events that happened after 9/11, the Justice Department went too far too fast. It talked about the haphazard and indiscriminate way it which it prosecuted the war on terrorism. And how it quickly turned into a war on immigrants. They raised serious concerns about our civil liberties, and how the justice department, even itself, was at odds and had the base for the Justice Department about how best to prosecute the war on terror.
BLITZER: And on that specific point, Brad, you heard Kelli Arena say at the end of a report that some top officials of the Justice Department are now being encouraged to go hire private attorneys in case they are sued by some of these immigrants who were picked up.
BERENSON: Yes. I don't know the truth of that report, but I don't see anything in the report that would give them grounds for personal legal liability or especially to require the retention of private counsel. I don't see why counsel for the government, why Justice Department couldn't -- Justice Department lawyers could not represent these officials. All of these actions were taken in good faith. All of them appear to comply with the law, and we have to remember that every single person that we're talking about here was a law breaker, was a person who violated federal law, in most cases immigration laws, civil or criminal.
BLITZER: Lets Anthony respond to that go ahead.
ROMERO: What's remarkable is the fact the Justice Department has encouraged the individuals to secure individual legal counsel. We saw that in press reports and we've heard that elsewhere throughout the weekend. If the Justice Department really thought there was nothing wrong or illegal or unconstitutional about its actions. We find it curious they'd be encouraging government officials to hiring lawyers. Then you read the actual, 198 page document, and you see that the Justice Department goes quite far in terms of abuse and treatment of some detainees in the treatment centers. Remarkably, Wolf, that in one detention center, that the tapes -- videotapes that could have documented the conditions of confinement or abuse of prisoners were destroyed. It talks about official policies set by the Justice Department.
BLITZER: Well, let me have Brad weigh in on that.
Do you have any evidence to suggest or confirm that documents were destroyed?
BERENSON: I have no evidence either way on that. I haven't any idea whether that's true.
BLITZER: Because that's a serious allegation, right, Anthony?
What specifically are you referred to? ROMERO: Towards the end of the report, I think around page 170, they talk about videotapes that had been taken at MAC, the Metropolitan Detention Center, that had been destroyed and taped over. These were taped that were being used to be able to corroborate or to track the abuse or treatment of the conditions of confinement in prison.
BLITZER: Brad, you've had a chance, Brad, to look at this inspector general's report. Looking back with hindsight, of course, remembering the mood right after 9/11, what if anything do you think the administration should have done perhaps differently?
BERENSON: Well, there are things the administration could have done differently. I mean, no one is going to argue absolutely everything was done perfectly. But under the circumstances, I think the standard of perfection is probably a little too much to expect. My overall reaction reading the report was that given what had happened to this country on 9/11 this country did about as well as any country in the world probably would have under the circumstances, and the record, while not perfect, was still pretty darn good.
BLITZER: And Anthony, you have to give the administration, the Justice Department credit for coming out with this inspector general's report, not covering up perhaps some mistakes in this policy.
ROMERO: It's the inspector general who draws entirely the contrary conclusion to the one Brad just drew. And what for us is breath taking and remarkable is the level and extent of the scathing criticism you find within the Justice Department's own report. The fact that they fully documented the abuse issues, and fully addressed for us the concerns around immigrants rights in the aftermath of 9/11, gives us reason to believe this is just the beginning of the debate, not the end of it.
BLITZER: The debate will continue. Unfortunately not here because we're all out of time. Brad Berenson, thanks very much. Anthony Romero, thanks to you as well.
Think a book convention is simply a laid-back meeting ground? Think again. Two very popular authors get in a heated argument. What were Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken yelling about? We'll play it for you, next.
First, a look at some other news making headlines around the world.
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BLITZER (voice-over): Fighting in Congo. A warring faction accuses a rival faction of killing almost 350 people, most of them civilians.
A Ugandan military commander says at least 100 people were killed in weekend fighting. The latest reports come as the French-led international force is due in the northeastern part of the country to try to stop the fighting. North Korea's nukes. An American congressman just back from North Korea says the communist nation once again admitted having nuclear weapons and plans to build more.
Republican Curt Weldon of Pennsylvania also reports the North says it has almost finished reprocessing spent fuel rods, a move that could produce more nuclear weapons within month.
China's great dam. Gates to the controversial Three Gorges Dam on the Yangtze river have been shut, starting the process of filling a 355-mile reservoir. China says the massive project is critical for national power and controlling the Yangtze river. Critics say the $25 billion project will create ecological disaster.
Mission to Mars. An unmanned European spacecraft is headed for Mars. In the first of three missions set for this month, the Mars Express was launched by a Russian rocket and is expected to orbit Mars for two years in search for signs of life on the planet.
Ship sinking. A Chinese freighter sank in the Baltic Sea after a collision with a Cypress-registered ship. It happened off Denmark over the weekend. All crew members were picked up by a Danish rescue vessel. An investigation into the cause of the accident is under way.
And that's our look around the world.
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BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- what's the largest media company in the world? The answer, AOL Time Warner, the parent company of this network.
In a highly controversial move, the Republican-controlled Federal Communications Commission today relaxed some key rules restricting media ownership. Critics say the new rules could result in a few giant media companies controlling what you see, hear and read. CNN national correspondent Bob Franken is joining us now live to tell us what this ruling really means -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it raises the question, whether the FCC's three Republican, two Democrat vote will mean fewer owners and ultimately mean fewer choices and worse choices.
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JONATHAN ADELSTEIN, FCC COMMISSIONER: More sensationalism. More commercialism. More crassness. More violence. More homogenization, and noticeably less serious coverage of news and local events.
MICHAEL POWELL, FCC CHAIRMAN: I believe that our actions will advance our diversity and localism goals and maintain a vigorously independent environment.
FRANKEN: The order allows major media companies, including the networks, to own TV stations in markets covering 45 percent of the nation's population, up from 35 percent. It will allow a single owner to buy at least two TV stations in all but the smallest markets, and three in the very biggest, and it will allow a single media organization to own a newspaper, TV and radio stations in the same area.
The protests at the FCC were small, but the public response by mail and e-mail has been massive. About three quarters of a million people weighed in. The comment, almost unanimously opposed. Almost all complain the competition of ideas will be swept aside by a lack of media competition.
But supporters of the changes say the old rules were relics of a distant past.
KEVIN MARTIN, FCC COMMISSIONER: No CNN, no Fox, no NBC, no CNBC. Local news broadcast by the local stations just once at 6:00, and just once at 11:00.
FRANKEN: Maybe so. But for dissenters complain that the bigger selection is really controlled by a smaller group of companies. They point to the experience of radio deregulation, which allowed one company, for instance, Clear Channel Communications, to acquire 1,200 stations nationwide. And that meant they contend less local content, more automation. In one celebrated case, no one was there to answer the frantic phone calls from officials in Minot (ph), North Dakota, wanting to spread the word of a poisonous gas cloud from a train derailment.
MICHAEL COPPS, FCC COMMISSIONER: Clear Channel-ization of the rest of the American media will harm our country.
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FRANKEN: In any case, the FCC decision is clearly not the last word. There will certainly be court tests, Wolf, and Congress will weigh in. Already 150 House and Senate members have expressed their opposition to this decision -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bob Franken, thanks very much for that report.
Normally the Annual Book Sellers and Publishers Convention is a rather staid affair. Authors appear to promote their upcoming books, but this past weekend, things were anything but staid at the convention in Los Angeles. That's because Fox News' Bill Reilly and humorist Al Franken, both promoting their new books, which will be out in the fall, had a blistering exchange.
Franken's book is entitled "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right." O'Reilly's book is titled, "Who's Looking Out for You." He spoke first and was rather, at least relatively mild in his presentation. Franken followed, and that's when things got nasty very quickly, when he said liberals like himself were going to start attacking conservatives.
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AL FRANKEN, AUTHOR: We're not going to sit for it anymore. We just aren't.
OK. I'll finish for now. I could go on all day.
BILL O'REILLY, AUTHOR: I know you could.
FRANKEN: And I know you could, too.
O'REILLY: You just about have. You just about have.
FRANKEN: Yes, you tell them, Bill.
O'REILLY: We're supposed to be on here for 15 minutes. This idiot goes 35. OK? All he's gotten in six and a half years is that I misspoke, that I labeled a Polk award a Peabody. He writes it in his book, he tries to make it out to be lies...
FRANKEN: No, no, no...
O'REILLY: Hey, shut up! You had your 35 minutes! Shut up!
FRANKEN: This isn't your show, Bill.
O'REILLY: This is what this guy does.
FRANKEN: Bill, you can't...
O'REILLY: This is what this guy does, all right? This is what he does.
FRANKEN: Take control, Pat. Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I think I need a whistle and a striped shirt here. I'm not to be a referee.
(CROSSTALK)
O'REILLY: Can you please control him? This guy accused me of being a liar, ladies and gentlemen, on national television, because I misspoke and labeled a Peabody a Polk. I didn't mention we won four National Headliners, OK? This is what this guy does. He demonizes it, all right? And then other people pick it up. Now, if it's important to you that I misspoke and labeled a Peabody a Polk, that's fine.
FRANKEN: You didn't just misspeak!
O'REILLY: That's fine. That's fine, OK?
This is what he does. He is vicious, and that is with a capital "v" person who is blinded by ideology. And that's all I'll say about him. Rebut.
FRANKEN: I do tell the truth. And when I -- and if I do get caught, or if I do say something wrong, I admit it. And the whole point of what I said here was that when you were caught, you lash back... O'REILLY: Look, if this is all you got, we heard it, Al. If this is all you got after six and a half years, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
FRANKEN: No, I told you it isn't all I have.
O'REILLY: You're pathetic. If this is all you got after six and a half years, you are pathetic.
FRANKEN: I told you it isn't all I got.
O'REILLY: You're pathetic.
FRANKEN: It isn't all I got! I got a lot more!
O'REILLY: And if it's as lame as that, it's unbelievable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: If you haven't seen this presentation on C-Span, they might be replaying it. You probably would want to watch the entire presentation. By the way, whatever their disagreements, and they have plenty, they do have something very much in common. Based on their publishing track records, both books are likely to become best sellers.
A mistress and a mom have a moment of reconciliation.
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RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Richard Quest at Buckingham Palace. Why did the queen invite 500 children to spend the afternoon in her back garden and Camilla Parker Bowles to spend the morning in church? I'll tell you next.
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BLITZER: We'll go to London for the royal party that's raising eyebrows. You have to see this. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. Fifty years ago today, a 27-year-old mother of two was crowned queen and today Britain's Elizabeth II mark the anniversary with a service of thanksgiving and a children's party at her palace. CNN's Richard Quest has more now from London.
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QUEST (voice-over): This was the day for the solemn ceremony and a sunny time in the garden. Remembering half a century since her coronation, Queen Elizabeth decided the day should be low-key. It started as it did 50 years ago at Westminster Abby with a service of thanksgiving.
VERY REV. WESLEY CARR, DEAN OF WESTMINSTER: On this, the 50th anniversary of the coronation, we join Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, our queen, as she again presents herself to God. And we the congregation recognize her by thanking god for her leadership.
QUEST: In the congregation was Camilla Parker Bowles, prince Charles' companion. They didn't arrive together, they didn't sit together, but the mere fact they were there together is considered a royal development.
Then a chance to remember a more simple time with a fun fair in the palace grounds. Five hundred less privileged children came to the queen's home for tea. It's not every day the palace has a castle, even a bouncy castle in its grounds.
(on camera): Did you have a good time here at the palace?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
QUEST: Lovely. Well you still got some ice cream. Come on, keep going with that.
(voice-over): The queen spends as long as necessary to go around the lawn, meeting the children and finally, cutting the cake. There were no fancy ornaments this year, no golden coaches, no parades. Just homely fun in the back garden.
(on camera): The palace will be very pleased, not only with the Golden Jubilee last year, the huge pomp and ceremony, but also from the quieter celebrations commemorating the 50th anniversary of the coronation. Now they just have to plan what to do for the Diamond Jubilee. There's just 10 years to go.
Richard Quest, CNN, Buckingham Palace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Richard.
We're getting some new information over at the Pentagon on a very disturbing incident in the Persian Gulf. When we come back, we'll go live to Jamie McIntyre for details.
Also, the results of "Our Web Question of the Day." Can Eric Robert Rudolph get a fair trial? That, much more, stay with us.
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BLITZER: We have some disturbing information just coming in from the Pentagon. our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre, once again, is joining us now live with details -- Jamie.
MCINTYRE: Well, Wolf, 4 soldiers and some civilian contractors on small boats in the Shat al-Ahrab (ph) waterway were taken into custody by Iranian authorities yesterday as they were heading down to the Al Fah Peninsula to pick up some oil workers. Pentagon sources say the American soldiers were blindfolded, taken at gunpoint and questioned overnight before being return unhurt today. Some of the civilians are still being held, the boat captains. Unclear at this time whether the U.S. will launch an official protest -- Wolf. BLITZER: All right, Jamie McIntyre will continue to monitor the story for us. Thanks, Jamie, very much.
Here's how you're weighing in on "our Web Question of the Day." Remember we've been asking you this: can Eric Robert Rudolph get a fair trial? Look at his, 76 percent of you say yes, 24 percent of you say no. As always, remember, this is not a scientific poll.
A reminder, you can always watch us, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, weekday 5 p.m. Eastern. I'll be back tomorrow also at noon Eastern. We'll take a look at the hunt for weapons of mass destruction.
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