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CNN Live Today

Interview With Sen. McCain

Aired June 03, 2003 - 11:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now that the war in Iraq is won, there is a lingering question that many people want answered: where are the weapons of mass destruction that were given as the reason for the war in the first place?
CNN Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl joins us now from Capitol Hill with more on that, and Jon is not alone. He has got a guest, Arizona Senator John McCain is with him -- hello, Jon.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Leon. Senator McCain, who joins me here, is one of the strongest Republican supporters of the effort in Iraq. Now, Senator McCain knows that some serious questions are being asked here, especially by Democrats, but by some Republicans as well as to why weapons of mass destruction have not yet been found in Iraq.

Senator Bob Graham, who is also the former chairman of the Intelligence Committee and a presidential candidate says that there was either a serious intelligence failure or the manipulation of intelligence to keep the American people in the dark.

Senator McCain, what is your understanding right now as to why, with 300,000 American troops on the ground, there still has been no sign of weapons of mass destruction?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Well, there's various theories as to why they haven't found them.

They have found the two laboratories, the search goes on. But let me just quickly say, when I saw the 9 and 10-year-old boys come out of a prison, I was satisfied. There is no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction, he has constructed them, he has hidden them, and even the French and Germans agree that he had these weapons, it was just a matter of how you find them.

So, I think that it's very appropriate for the Congress to have hearings on this whole issue. You just mentioned charges that are being made about manipulation and all that. Fine, let's have hearings. It's appropriate after every conflict to have hearings, but I'm satisfied that Saddam Hussein not only had weapons of mass destruction, but if we hadn't overthrown him, he would have gone back to pursuing the development of weapons of mass destruction.

KARL: But when Secretary Colin Powell made that presentation in February before the U.N. Security Council, he talked about 500 tons of sarin, VX nerve agents, and and also 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin. I mean, if he, in fact, had all that, how is it we haven't found it?

MCCAIN: I do not know that answer. I do know that -- that he had those weapons in 1998 when the inspectors couldn't inspect anymore. I mean, that was the unanimous view of every nation and all the inspectors, and I don't know the answer to that. But I do know that he has used them, he would use them, and he would, if he were able to, continue to develop them.

KARL: Do you think that there was pressure on the intelligence community to make the strongest possible case, and perhaps to hype the evidence, as Senator Graham has suggested?

MCCAIN: I do not know, but again, I think it's entirely appropriate, as it was after the Gulf War to have congressional hearings and have witnesses come and testify. Not only on that issue, but how long we're going to be in Iraq, what the cost of our continued occupation of Iraq is going to be. And you know, I think it's very appropriate to many questions being asked. That's Congress's duty.

KARL: Now, President Bush has said that they have already found weapons of mass destruction, pointing to those two mobile labs. Is that really the kind of evidence that will satisfy the world?

MCCAIN: Americans are satisfied we did the right thing. Now, there's a problem with the Europeans, and obviously that's not going to satisfy them. More work needs to be done, but I believe that congressional hearings are appropriate, and a lot of this information will come out. But I still think, as most Americans do, we did the right thing.

KARL: And Senator Warner with the Armed Services Committee said that he will have those hearings. Senator McCain, I believe Leon Harris has a question for us.

MCCAIN: Yes.

HARRIS: Yes, Senator, I would like to ask you one other question, because one of the other reasons why, many of us were told, that a war was necessary was because it was required to keep weapons of mass destruction from leaving Iraq and making their way into the hands of any terrorists around the world that may actually use them.

Well, if they're not in Iraq, and if one of the cases that is being made now is that they have been spirited out of Iraq, does that necessarily mean that the war was not a good idea?

MCCAIN: Well, if Saddam Hussein had those weapons, they may have been spirited out, we don't know that, or maybe we haven't found them, but there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein was bent on the destruction of the United States and would have done whatever he could, including continued developments of these weapons of mass destruction, Leon.

HARRIS: But if a war actually encouraged him and provided an opportunity for him to give them to someone else to use them, and if that does happen, what then? MCCAIN: Well, these hypotheticals are hard for me to respond to. I don't know who he gave them to if he gave them to anybody. I still think that if we had taken the pressure off him, there's no doubt in anybody's mind, with his clear record of having used weapons of mass destruction, the only bad guy that has, that he would have gone ahead with the development of them.

HARRIS: I grant you that. I apologize for throwing the hypothetical on you.

MCCAIN: No problem, Leon.

HARRIS: But let me ask you this, and I'm sorry, this one is somewhat of a hypothetical, but if it is found in these hearings that the administration may have hyped these intelligence findings in order to push this war on the world, there is a columnist, Paul Krugman, in "The New York Times" this morning saying that would be worse than Iran-Contra. That would be worse than Watergate. Would you agree with that?

MCCAIN: I think it depends on the degree. Clearly, they were trying to rally support for this effort, not only within the United States, but internationally. So in the hypothetical situation, if they said, Look, this is an important issue, such as we find out Paul Wolfowitz did and let's focus on it, that's one thing. If they manufactured false evidence, that's something else. It's a little hard to judge that -- Leon.

HARRIS: Understood. We'll have to wait for the hearings for all that to come out. We sure do appreciate your time this morning, Senator as always.

MCCAIN: Thank you. Pleasure.

HARRIS: And Jon, appreciate your report as well. Jon Karl on Capitol Hill joined there by Senator John McCain of Arizona. We will continue to take a look at that issue throughout the day here on the network.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 3, 2003 - 11:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Now that the war in Iraq is won, there is a lingering question that many people want answered: where are the weapons of mass destruction that were given as the reason for the war in the first place?
CNN Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl joins us now from Capitol Hill with more on that, and Jon is not alone. He has got a guest, Arizona Senator John McCain is with him -- hello, Jon.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Leon. Senator McCain, who joins me here, is one of the strongest Republican supporters of the effort in Iraq. Now, Senator McCain knows that some serious questions are being asked here, especially by Democrats, but by some Republicans as well as to why weapons of mass destruction have not yet been found in Iraq.

Senator Bob Graham, who is also the former chairman of the Intelligence Committee and a presidential candidate says that there was either a serious intelligence failure or the manipulation of intelligence to keep the American people in the dark.

Senator McCain, what is your understanding right now as to why, with 300,000 American troops on the ground, there still has been no sign of weapons of mass destruction?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Well, there's various theories as to why they haven't found them.

They have found the two laboratories, the search goes on. But let me just quickly say, when I saw the 9 and 10-year-old boys come out of a prison, I was satisfied. There is no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction, he has constructed them, he has hidden them, and even the French and Germans agree that he had these weapons, it was just a matter of how you find them.

So, I think that it's very appropriate for the Congress to have hearings on this whole issue. You just mentioned charges that are being made about manipulation and all that. Fine, let's have hearings. It's appropriate after every conflict to have hearings, but I'm satisfied that Saddam Hussein not only had weapons of mass destruction, but if we hadn't overthrown him, he would have gone back to pursuing the development of weapons of mass destruction.

KARL: But when Secretary Colin Powell made that presentation in February before the U.N. Security Council, he talked about 500 tons of sarin, VX nerve agents, and and also 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin. I mean, if he, in fact, had all that, how is it we haven't found it?

MCCAIN: I do not know that answer. I do know that -- that he had those weapons in 1998 when the inspectors couldn't inspect anymore. I mean, that was the unanimous view of every nation and all the inspectors, and I don't know the answer to that. But I do know that he has used them, he would use them, and he would, if he were able to, continue to develop them.

KARL: Do you think that there was pressure on the intelligence community to make the strongest possible case, and perhaps to hype the evidence, as Senator Graham has suggested?

MCCAIN: I do not know, but again, I think it's entirely appropriate, as it was after the Gulf War to have congressional hearings and have witnesses come and testify. Not only on that issue, but how long we're going to be in Iraq, what the cost of our continued occupation of Iraq is going to be. And you know, I think it's very appropriate to many questions being asked. That's Congress's duty.

KARL: Now, President Bush has said that they have already found weapons of mass destruction, pointing to those two mobile labs. Is that really the kind of evidence that will satisfy the world?

MCCAIN: Americans are satisfied we did the right thing. Now, there's a problem with the Europeans, and obviously that's not going to satisfy them. More work needs to be done, but I believe that congressional hearings are appropriate, and a lot of this information will come out. But I still think, as most Americans do, we did the right thing.

KARL: And Senator Warner with the Armed Services Committee said that he will have those hearings. Senator McCain, I believe Leon Harris has a question for us.

MCCAIN: Yes.

HARRIS: Yes, Senator, I would like to ask you one other question, because one of the other reasons why, many of us were told, that a war was necessary was because it was required to keep weapons of mass destruction from leaving Iraq and making their way into the hands of any terrorists around the world that may actually use them.

Well, if they're not in Iraq, and if one of the cases that is being made now is that they have been spirited out of Iraq, does that necessarily mean that the war was not a good idea?

MCCAIN: Well, if Saddam Hussein had those weapons, they may have been spirited out, we don't know that, or maybe we haven't found them, but there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein was bent on the destruction of the United States and would have done whatever he could, including continued developments of these weapons of mass destruction, Leon.

HARRIS: But if a war actually encouraged him and provided an opportunity for him to give them to someone else to use them, and if that does happen, what then? MCCAIN: Well, these hypotheticals are hard for me to respond to. I don't know who he gave them to if he gave them to anybody. I still think that if we had taken the pressure off him, there's no doubt in anybody's mind, with his clear record of having used weapons of mass destruction, the only bad guy that has, that he would have gone ahead with the development of them.

HARRIS: I grant you that. I apologize for throwing the hypothetical on you.

MCCAIN: No problem, Leon.

HARRIS: But let me ask you this, and I'm sorry, this one is somewhat of a hypothetical, but if it is found in these hearings that the administration may have hyped these intelligence findings in order to push this war on the world, there is a columnist, Paul Krugman, in "The New York Times" this morning saying that would be worse than Iran-Contra. That would be worse than Watergate. Would you agree with that?

MCCAIN: I think it depends on the degree. Clearly, they were trying to rally support for this effort, not only within the United States, but internationally. So in the hypothetical situation, if they said, Look, this is an important issue, such as we find out Paul Wolfowitz did and let's focus on it, that's one thing. If they manufactured false evidence, that's something else. It's a little hard to judge that -- Leon.

HARRIS: Understood. We'll have to wait for the hearings for all that to come out. We sure do appreciate your time this morning, Senator as always.

MCCAIN: Thank you. Pleasure.

HARRIS: And Jon, appreciate your report as well. Jon Karl on Capitol Hill joined there by Senator John McCain of Arizona. We will continue to take a look at that issue throughout the day here on the network.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com