Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Interview With Martin Indyk
Aired June 04, 2003 - 09:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Important steps taken, difficult steps, too, on that difficult road in Middle East peace. Optimism high in Aqaba, Jordan, as President Bush meeting with Israeli and Palestinian leaders there.
Our senior White House correspondent John King also on hand.
Let's get to John straight away -- good afternoon there, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Bill.
Many tough and challenging days, weeks and most ahead, but President Bush would perhaps put it this way. As we speak now, the Middle East peace process is back in business. That the result of a dramatic three way summit here in Aqaba, Jordan today. Mr. Bush meeting with the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas. Hosting the summit, King Abdullah of Jordan.
The four leaders walking out across a bridge constructed over a swimming pool near the edge of the Red Sea not that long ago. These men coming out here to say that they have reached agreements under which the Israelis and the Palestinians will implement the early steps they are required to take under the administration's so-called road map for Middle East peace.
For the Palestinians, that means an end to the violence, a crackdown by Mahmoud Abbas on militant groups, a call from him for Palestinian militants to lay down their arms completely.
For the Israelis, that means immediately, Prime Minister Sharon said, dismantling illegal settlements in the Palestinian territories, a recognition of the right at first for a provisional Palestinian state.
Mr. Bush quite optimistic at this moment. This is his first detailed personal involvement in the Middle East process. Mr. Bush believes there is an opportunity at last to end -- at the end of the road map, with an independent Palestinian state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All here today now share a goal. The Holy Land must be shared between the State of Palestine and the State of Israel, living at peace with each other and with every nation of the Middle East. All sides will benefit from this achievement and all sides have responsibilities to meet. As the road map accepted by the party makes clear, both must make tangible immediate steps toward this two state vision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And shaking at the end of the ceremonies here, everyone obviously in an upbeat mood. Mr. Bush says he will send a new envoy to the region very soon. He also says National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice will supplement Secretary of State Colin Powell in demonstrating his administration's personal commitment to the difficult days ahead.
There is a moment of optimism. There is a mood of hope here right now. But earlier, at the beginning of the trilateral, when prime ministers Abbas and Sharon came out to pose for photographers, they refused an invitation to shake hands, a reminder even as there is a celebration today that the peace process is beginning yet again, these two men still are not certain they can trust each other, still are not certain that each side will implement the steps it is now required to take in the days ahead -- Bill.
HEMMER: John King live in Jordan.
John, thanks for that.
Let's talk more about it right now.
Mark Indyk, the former U.S. ambassador to Israel in the Clinton years, now director of the Saban Center for Mideast Policy at the Brookings Institution.
Mr. Ambassador, welcome back here at AMERICAN MORNING.
MARTIN INDYK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: You're watching these four men make their statements publicly in Jordan.
What comes to mind as you are observing that?
INDYK: Well, you used the word historic and I think that's correct. It is an historic moment. Firstly, because for the last two years, the Israelis and Palestinians have been killing each other. They've been war warring rather than jaw jawing, as Churchill used to say. It was better to jaw jaw and that's very important in this context.
Secondly, the words they spoke were important. As the president said, the three leaders were committed now publicly in front of the world to a two state solution. Many viewers have come to accept that, have been jaundiced by the idea that it's really going to happen. But now that the leaders are on the record in front of the world as committing to that, that, too, clarifies what the objective is going to be.
Then there was a statement by Abu Mazen that he would end the armed intifada and that he would succeed at that, a demonstration, I think, of commitment on the Palestinian part which we haven't seen for many years.
And, of course, Prime Minister Sharon not only committing to a Palestinian state, but talking about contiguity for the Palestinian state, the importance of government by the Palestinians to Israel and his commitment to begin the process of taking out those illegal settlement outposts.
So I think...
HEMMER: We -- go ahead, I'm sorry. But the illegal outposts are something I want to get to right away, because not a whole lot of specifics given in these statements. But help us define what it means by an illegal outpost, an unauthorized outpost, say, in the West Bank.
INDYK: These settlements which have gone up, they're usually a few trailers on a hilltop. In the course of the intifada, the settlers, mainly the young settlers who don't have a lot of respect for the rule of law, put these trailers up in response to the deaths of settlers as a result of Palestinian attacks. It was designed to show the Palestinians that for every Israeli settler they killed, they would lose more territory.
And the numbers vary, but there are something between 65 and 100 of these hilltop outposts, just a few settlers in some trailers. But they're, the people are young. They are zealots. They are very committed to staying there and Sharon will have to send in the Israeli Army and there will be confrontations with these settlers. It will be wrenching for the Israeli body politic.
One of the right-wing leaders in Israel two days ago said that to remove these would be tantamount to sparking a civil war. And I think the settlers are very nervous at the moment and this is not going to be an easy thing for Sharon to do.
So I think the fact that he's ready to announce it means that he will do it and that will be an important confidence building step in the process.
HEMMER: In a word or two, as we sit here half a world away, is this going to work?
INDYK: I think that it has a chance to work. It's going to be very difficult because the terrorists will do what they can to thwart it, as they've done before. But we've got three things going for the process today. The first, and I think the most important, is the president's personal commitment and involvement. That's been absent for the last two and a half years. Without that, the two sides can't take the necessary steps because they don't have confidence enough in each other.
Secondly, we have a new leadership on the Palestinian side that is speaking a different language, a language of peace, a language of ending violence.
And thirdly we have a prime minister in Israel from the right- wing who enjoys broad political support, is the only man in Israel's history who has removed settlements before and I believe is the only leader in Israel on the political horizon that could do it in this context. And he's now talking about doing that as part of the process of achieving a two state solution, something which Israeli governments have not committed to in the past.
So these are new developments that I think means that there's a breeze of hope blowing today out of Aqaba.
HEMMER: You make a great point, Ariel Sharon, the point man for the Israelis in Sinai back in the 1970s.
Martin Indyk, thanks, former ambassador to Israel there in D.C.
We'll speak again. Thanks.
INDYK: Thank you, Bill.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 4, 2003 - 09:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Important steps taken, difficult steps, too, on that difficult road in Middle East peace. Optimism high in Aqaba, Jordan, as President Bush meeting with Israeli and Palestinian leaders there.
Our senior White House correspondent John King also on hand.
Let's get to John straight away -- good afternoon there, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Bill.
Many tough and challenging days, weeks and most ahead, but President Bush would perhaps put it this way. As we speak now, the Middle East peace process is back in business. That the result of a dramatic three way summit here in Aqaba, Jordan today. Mr. Bush meeting with the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, the Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas. Hosting the summit, King Abdullah of Jordan.
The four leaders walking out across a bridge constructed over a swimming pool near the edge of the Red Sea not that long ago. These men coming out here to say that they have reached agreements under which the Israelis and the Palestinians will implement the early steps they are required to take under the administration's so-called road map for Middle East peace.
For the Palestinians, that means an end to the violence, a crackdown by Mahmoud Abbas on militant groups, a call from him for Palestinian militants to lay down their arms completely.
For the Israelis, that means immediately, Prime Minister Sharon said, dismantling illegal settlements in the Palestinian territories, a recognition of the right at first for a provisional Palestinian state.
Mr. Bush quite optimistic at this moment. This is his first detailed personal involvement in the Middle East process. Mr. Bush believes there is an opportunity at last to end -- at the end of the road map, with an independent Palestinian state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All here today now share a goal. The Holy Land must be shared between the State of Palestine and the State of Israel, living at peace with each other and with every nation of the Middle East. All sides will benefit from this achievement and all sides have responsibilities to meet. As the road map accepted by the party makes clear, both must make tangible immediate steps toward this two state vision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And shaking at the end of the ceremonies here, everyone obviously in an upbeat mood. Mr. Bush says he will send a new envoy to the region very soon. He also says National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice will supplement Secretary of State Colin Powell in demonstrating his administration's personal commitment to the difficult days ahead.
There is a moment of optimism. There is a mood of hope here right now. But earlier, at the beginning of the trilateral, when prime ministers Abbas and Sharon came out to pose for photographers, they refused an invitation to shake hands, a reminder even as there is a celebration today that the peace process is beginning yet again, these two men still are not certain they can trust each other, still are not certain that each side will implement the steps it is now required to take in the days ahead -- Bill.
HEMMER: John King live in Jordan.
John, thanks for that.
Let's talk more about it right now.
Mark Indyk, the former U.S. ambassador to Israel in the Clinton years, now director of the Saban Center for Mideast Policy at the Brookings Institution.
Mr. Ambassador, welcome back here at AMERICAN MORNING.
MARTIN INDYK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: You're watching these four men make their statements publicly in Jordan.
What comes to mind as you are observing that?
INDYK: Well, you used the word historic and I think that's correct. It is an historic moment. Firstly, because for the last two years, the Israelis and Palestinians have been killing each other. They've been war warring rather than jaw jawing, as Churchill used to say. It was better to jaw jaw and that's very important in this context.
Secondly, the words they spoke were important. As the president said, the three leaders were committed now publicly in front of the world to a two state solution. Many viewers have come to accept that, have been jaundiced by the idea that it's really going to happen. But now that the leaders are on the record in front of the world as committing to that, that, too, clarifies what the objective is going to be.
Then there was a statement by Abu Mazen that he would end the armed intifada and that he would succeed at that, a demonstration, I think, of commitment on the Palestinian part which we haven't seen for many years.
And, of course, Prime Minister Sharon not only committing to a Palestinian state, but talking about contiguity for the Palestinian state, the importance of government by the Palestinians to Israel and his commitment to begin the process of taking out those illegal settlement outposts.
So I think...
HEMMER: We -- go ahead, I'm sorry. But the illegal outposts are something I want to get to right away, because not a whole lot of specifics given in these statements. But help us define what it means by an illegal outpost, an unauthorized outpost, say, in the West Bank.
INDYK: These settlements which have gone up, they're usually a few trailers on a hilltop. In the course of the intifada, the settlers, mainly the young settlers who don't have a lot of respect for the rule of law, put these trailers up in response to the deaths of settlers as a result of Palestinian attacks. It was designed to show the Palestinians that for every Israeli settler they killed, they would lose more territory.
And the numbers vary, but there are something between 65 and 100 of these hilltop outposts, just a few settlers in some trailers. But they're, the people are young. They are zealots. They are very committed to staying there and Sharon will have to send in the Israeli Army and there will be confrontations with these settlers. It will be wrenching for the Israeli body politic.
One of the right-wing leaders in Israel two days ago said that to remove these would be tantamount to sparking a civil war. And I think the settlers are very nervous at the moment and this is not going to be an easy thing for Sharon to do.
So I think the fact that he's ready to announce it means that he will do it and that will be an important confidence building step in the process.
HEMMER: In a word or two, as we sit here half a world away, is this going to work?
INDYK: I think that it has a chance to work. It's going to be very difficult because the terrorists will do what they can to thwart it, as they've done before. But we've got three things going for the process today. The first, and I think the most important, is the president's personal commitment and involvement. That's been absent for the last two and a half years. Without that, the two sides can't take the necessary steps because they don't have confidence enough in each other.
Secondly, we have a new leadership on the Palestinian side that is speaking a different language, a language of peace, a language of ending violence.
And thirdly we have a prime minister in Israel from the right- wing who enjoys broad political support, is the only man in Israel's history who has removed settlements before and I believe is the only leader in Israel on the political horizon that could do it in this context. And he's now talking about doing that as part of the process of achieving a two state solution, something which Israeli governments have not committed to in the past.
So these are new developments that I think means that there's a breeze of hope blowing today out of Aqaba.
HEMMER: You make a great point, Ariel Sharon, the point man for the Israelis in Sinai back in the 1970s.
Martin Indyk, thanks, former ambassador to Israel there in D.C.
We'll speak again. Thanks.
INDYK: Thank you, Bill.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
