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Defense Documents: Intelligence on Iraq was Unclear; Hamas Challenges Abbas
Aired June 06, 2003 - 11:09 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, ANCHOR: Almost nine minutes after the hour now. We turn now to news coming from the Pentagon.
The Pentagon's own intelligence operation expressed some serious doubts that Iraq had an active program to develop weapons of mass destruction, particularly chemical weapons.
Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, has obtained a declassified summary of this report which was completed last year. She joins us now from her post at the Pentagon. She's got details on this. Hello, Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Leon.
Well, this report dates from September 2002, just as the administration was beginning to ramp up its case that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that posed an imminent threat.
Now, the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency took a look at Iraq's programs, focusing very heavily on the period after December 1998 when the U.N. weapons inspectors had been thrown out, the period in which the U.S. had no real visibility as to what was going on inside Iraq.
One of the conclusions that they came to has caused a good deal of controversy. What that report said, quoting now, was that "there is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons or where Iraq has or will establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities."
Now, to place all of this in context, of course, that quote addresses the point, what was Iraq doing at the time? Did they have a new program underway, were they producing new amounts of material and stockpiling them? The DIA says on that question, they really cannot come to an absolutely definitive conclusion.
And that's really what the intelligence community does. They make assessments, they make judgments. But unless they really have the solid evidence in hand in front of them, they rarely do come to a definitive conclusion.
But they did see things going on in Iraq that did cause them a lot of concern. A couple of things that the DIA said -- they said that there was, quoting, "unusual activity last year suggesting Iraq was distributing chemical munitions in anticipation of a U.S. attack." They said that Iraq probably had the chemical munitions such as artillery shells but they don't say it very definitively, according to people that have seen the report that we have talked too.
The report also says Iraq had chemicals and equipment to produce mustard agent. But they raise questions about whether or not Iraq could produce new large amounts of nerve agent. That they lacked the chemicals and they lacked the facilities to do that because so much had been bombed in previous attacks.
So the bottom line is the DIA says sure, Iraq did have at one point a very active chemical and biological warfare program, there's no question about that. The U.N. knew it, everyone knew it, Secretary of State Colin Powell, they said, had a fair representation back in February.
But whether or not they could come to any absolutely definitive conclusions, jury's still out on that one. The DIA says they probably just could not do that back in December 2002 -- Leon.
HARRIS: Very interesting for this report to be coming out just as we're hearing talk in the Senate about having hearings about all of this.
Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, nice work getting that report for us. WE appreciate that.
Now, as we said, that defense intelligence came at the same time the White House was talking about Iraq as an imminent threat. Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has been working her sources at the White House and she brings us now the response from there.
OK, Suzanne, what are you hearing?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Leon, White House officials who I spoke to said that they are not aware whether or not this DIA report actually hit the president's desk or was here at the White House and it was actually at that level. There are a lot of sources of information and intelligence that it gets, that they are actually looking into that.
But a senior administration official who I spoke with said that the Bush administration, the White House, the president is confident that he made the right decision based on the right intelligence. This invading Iraq that, yes, they believed that they're weapons of mass destruction.
Now why is the administration so confident about this? Well, there are essentially two reasons: the White House believes that it's not alone in its thinking, that you had the international community, you had the Security Council, and you also had Congress, all of them last year agreeing that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
The only person the senior administration officials said that said Saddam Hussein didn't was Saddam Hussein. That's the first point.
The second is, White House insiders say it really is not going to be a political liability. If you look at the polls, most voters really aren't paying that much attention to this. This is not a priority when it comes to what they're looking at. So they are not concerned about the weapons of mass destruction.
But as you know, Leon, of course, the course continues whether or not they're actually going to find them.
HARRIS: All right, Suzanne. Now that story is going to be playing out, not doubt, in days to come.
But one that is already in play right now is the Middle East peace process. President Bush, as you know, throwing himself into it now personally. But it seems as though something of a roadblock now being thrown out by Hamas.
Any response from the White House about Hamas' stance this morning, saying that they are going to be opposing the Palestinian prime minister right now?
MALVEAUX: Well, Leon, there was a strong response from the White House because they really want to make the point that they're not going to allow Hamas or any other group to derail this process. We heard from Michael Anton. He is the spokesman for the National Security Council, and he said this morning, I'm quoting here, he told me, "There's now a real prospect for peace. All parties agree that terrorism needs to stop and that all parties must fight terror. Those who pursue terror have made it clear that they are enemies of peace."
Now, Leon, we heard yesterday President Bush using an old ranch term. He said that if Israelis and Palestinians didn't get on their commitments right away, he would get on the phone and ride herd, is what he said.
But also a senior administration official who I spoke with said it is not necessarily helpful or productive for the White House to speak out publicly when it comes to every development along this way. He said it's going to be a bumpy road. They recognize that and this is just one of those bumps in the road -- Leon.
HARRIS: All right. Thank you very much, Suzanne. Have a good weekend. We'll see you later. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Challenges Abbas>
Aired June 6, 2003 - 11:09 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, ANCHOR: Almost nine minutes after the hour now. We turn now to news coming from the Pentagon.
The Pentagon's own intelligence operation expressed some serious doubts that Iraq had an active program to develop weapons of mass destruction, particularly chemical weapons.
Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, has obtained a declassified summary of this report which was completed last year. She joins us now from her post at the Pentagon. She's got details on this. Hello, Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Leon.
Well, this report dates from September 2002, just as the administration was beginning to ramp up its case that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that posed an imminent threat.
Now, the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency took a look at Iraq's programs, focusing very heavily on the period after December 1998 when the U.N. weapons inspectors had been thrown out, the period in which the U.S. had no real visibility as to what was going on inside Iraq.
One of the conclusions that they came to has caused a good deal of controversy. What that report said, quoting now, was that "there is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons or where Iraq has or will establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities."
Now, to place all of this in context, of course, that quote addresses the point, what was Iraq doing at the time? Did they have a new program underway, were they producing new amounts of material and stockpiling them? The DIA says on that question, they really cannot come to an absolutely definitive conclusion.
And that's really what the intelligence community does. They make assessments, they make judgments. But unless they really have the solid evidence in hand in front of them, they rarely do come to a definitive conclusion.
But they did see things going on in Iraq that did cause them a lot of concern. A couple of things that the DIA said -- they said that there was, quoting, "unusual activity last year suggesting Iraq was distributing chemical munitions in anticipation of a U.S. attack." They said that Iraq probably had the chemical munitions such as artillery shells but they don't say it very definitively, according to people that have seen the report that we have talked too.
The report also says Iraq had chemicals and equipment to produce mustard agent. But they raise questions about whether or not Iraq could produce new large amounts of nerve agent. That they lacked the chemicals and they lacked the facilities to do that because so much had been bombed in previous attacks.
So the bottom line is the DIA says sure, Iraq did have at one point a very active chemical and biological warfare program, there's no question about that. The U.N. knew it, everyone knew it, Secretary of State Colin Powell, they said, had a fair representation back in February.
But whether or not they could come to any absolutely definitive conclusions, jury's still out on that one. The DIA says they probably just could not do that back in December 2002 -- Leon.
HARRIS: Very interesting for this report to be coming out just as we're hearing talk in the Senate about having hearings about all of this.
Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, nice work getting that report for us. WE appreciate that.
Now, as we said, that defense intelligence came at the same time the White House was talking about Iraq as an imminent threat. Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has been working her sources at the White House and she brings us now the response from there.
OK, Suzanne, what are you hearing?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Leon, White House officials who I spoke to said that they are not aware whether or not this DIA report actually hit the president's desk or was here at the White House and it was actually at that level. There are a lot of sources of information and intelligence that it gets, that they are actually looking into that.
But a senior administration official who I spoke with said that the Bush administration, the White House, the president is confident that he made the right decision based on the right intelligence. This invading Iraq that, yes, they believed that they're weapons of mass destruction.
Now why is the administration so confident about this? Well, there are essentially two reasons: the White House believes that it's not alone in its thinking, that you had the international community, you had the Security Council, and you also had Congress, all of them last year agreeing that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
The only person the senior administration officials said that said Saddam Hussein didn't was Saddam Hussein. That's the first point.
The second is, White House insiders say it really is not going to be a political liability. If you look at the polls, most voters really aren't paying that much attention to this. This is not a priority when it comes to what they're looking at. So they are not concerned about the weapons of mass destruction.
But as you know, Leon, of course, the course continues whether or not they're actually going to find them.
HARRIS: All right, Suzanne. Now that story is going to be playing out, not doubt, in days to come.
But one that is already in play right now is the Middle East peace process. President Bush, as you know, throwing himself into it now personally. But it seems as though something of a roadblock now being thrown out by Hamas.
Any response from the White House about Hamas' stance this morning, saying that they are going to be opposing the Palestinian prime minister right now?
MALVEAUX: Well, Leon, there was a strong response from the White House because they really want to make the point that they're not going to allow Hamas or any other group to derail this process. We heard from Michael Anton. He is the spokesman for the National Security Council, and he said this morning, I'm quoting here, he told me, "There's now a real prospect for peace. All parties agree that terrorism needs to stop and that all parties must fight terror. Those who pursue terror have made it clear that they are enemies of peace."
Now, Leon, we heard yesterday President Bush using an old ranch term. He said that if Israelis and Palestinians didn't get on their commitments right away, he would get on the phone and ride herd, is what he said.
But also a senior administration official who I spoke with said it is not necessarily helpful or productive for the White House to speak out publicly when it comes to every development along this way. He said it's going to be a bumpy road. They recognize that and this is just one of those bumps in the road -- Leon.
HARRIS: All right. Thank you very much, Suzanne. Have a good weekend. We'll see you later. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Challenges Abbas>
