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CNN Live Today

Interview With Professor Fawaz Gerges

Aired June 11, 2003 - 10:25   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, we turn our attention to the Middle East peace process, which, as we said has gotten quite complicated. Just last week, there was quite a lot of optimism being expressed as President Bush formally launched a new peace initiative with Israeli and Palestinian leaders, and forcefully and personally got involved, but now the fanfare has faded, and the administration is concerned that a resurgence of violence could derail the peace effort.
Joining us to talk some more about that is Fawaz Gerges. He is professor of Middle Eastern and international affairs at Sarah Lawrence College in New York. Professor Gerges, thanks for coming in and talking with us about this today.

Let me ask your thoughts now, like those that we've been talking this morning about this latest attack there on Mr. Rantissi, the Palestinian leader. Are will we going to see here a long, extended sort of tit for tat attacks that we have seen in the past? Every time progress is made, the next time you see some sort of violence erupt like this?

FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: Well, I think this is really the danger. I think the Israeli attack on the Hamas political leader, Rantissi, complicates the efforts by the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas in order to find ways and mechanisms to end the armed intifada, and it also plays into the hands of the militants, that is the armed Palestinian groups who are opposed to the road map, and would not like to give up armed resistance.

And I think, as importantly, I think the new Israeli attack, I think, undermines American presidential efforts to stop the cycle of violence and nudge the two parties back into the negotiating table. And I think it's reassuring now that President Bush scolded the Israeli government, and of course, made it very clear that the new attack, of course, hinders the peace process, and I think the president's remarks send a strong message to both Palestinians and Israelis that American policy is to support the peace process and to really invest major political capital in order to nudge both parties back into the negotiating table.

HARRIS: Well, the scolding you mentioned by President Bush -- and it will be some time before we can tell whether or not that scolding was strong enough to actually produce any results there, but if the next step has got to be taken by this administration, the Bush administration, and by the Sharon administration, what should those next steps be?

GERGES: This is again -- it is an excellent question. I think at the end of the day, we keep talking about the militant Palestinian groups who are opposed to the road map. It seems to me not only the militants. I mean, from my readings from the Palestinian media on a daily basis, not just the militant Palestinian groups -- Hamas, Jihad, and al Aqsa Martyr Brigades -- that even mainstream Palestinian society is deeply suspicious of the meager offerings by the Israeli government to dismantle a few outposts as opposed to inhabited settlements on the West Bank, and of course, the new attack, as I said, in fact it plays into the hands, not only the armed Palestinian groups, but also mainstream Palestinian society who basically is very suspicious of the road map, as one Palestinian leader put it yesterday, civil society leader, he said it's a trap.

What the United States and Israel should do, Leon, here is to empower mainstream Palestinian society, to give it hope, a stake in the future. This is the most effective means to isolate the militants and empower the reformist camp in the Palestinians. How you empower Mahmoud Abbas, the new Palestinian prime minister, is to really show that he can make a marked improvement in Palestinian lives and, of course, to show that the end of Israeli military occupation is near. This is the most effective way to end violence, to isolate the militants on the Palestinian sides and the Israeli action yesterday does not help in this process.

HARRIS: You are not surprised at all, though, to see all of this happen? Do you think in any way that perhaps the gap between Palestinians and Israelis, even at this point, has been underestimated?

GERGES: You know, Leon, despite everything that has happened in the last 33 months, since the outbreak of the armed Palestinian intifada, majorities, large majorities on both the Israeli and Palestinian side, still subscribe to a peace settlement, a peace settlement based on the international consensus, two states living side by side in peace.

This is really fascinating. Despite the bloodshed, more than 700 Israelis have been killed, more than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed, more than 50 percent of Israelis and Palestinians still subscribe to the peace process, a settlement based on international consensus.

The danger lies in the fact that you have dissubscribed (ph) groups in both camps, in the Palestinian camp and the Israeli camp who are dissubscribed (ph), and, of course, would like to undermine the road map, and this is why presidential involvement is crucial. The president must remain engaged personally in the peace process and invest political capital in order to nudge both parties into the negotiating table.

HARRIS: Well, our jobs are going to be to stand on the sidelines and see just how that process all plays out and whether or not President Bush does stay engaged. Thank you very much, Professor Fawaz Gerges. Appreciate that. Hope to talk to you some time down the road.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 11, 2003 - 10:25   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, we turn our attention to the Middle East peace process, which, as we said has gotten quite complicated. Just last week, there was quite a lot of optimism being expressed as President Bush formally launched a new peace initiative with Israeli and Palestinian leaders, and forcefully and personally got involved, but now the fanfare has faded, and the administration is concerned that a resurgence of violence could derail the peace effort.
Joining us to talk some more about that is Fawaz Gerges. He is professor of Middle Eastern and international affairs at Sarah Lawrence College in New York. Professor Gerges, thanks for coming in and talking with us about this today.

Let me ask your thoughts now, like those that we've been talking this morning about this latest attack there on Mr. Rantissi, the Palestinian leader. Are will we going to see here a long, extended sort of tit for tat attacks that we have seen in the past? Every time progress is made, the next time you see some sort of violence erupt like this?

FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: Well, I think this is really the danger. I think the Israeli attack on the Hamas political leader, Rantissi, complicates the efforts by the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas in order to find ways and mechanisms to end the armed intifada, and it also plays into the hands of the militants, that is the armed Palestinian groups who are opposed to the road map, and would not like to give up armed resistance.

And I think, as importantly, I think the new Israeli attack, I think, undermines American presidential efforts to stop the cycle of violence and nudge the two parties back into the negotiating table. And I think it's reassuring now that President Bush scolded the Israeli government, and of course, made it very clear that the new attack, of course, hinders the peace process, and I think the president's remarks send a strong message to both Palestinians and Israelis that American policy is to support the peace process and to really invest major political capital in order to nudge both parties back into the negotiating table.

HARRIS: Well, the scolding you mentioned by President Bush -- and it will be some time before we can tell whether or not that scolding was strong enough to actually produce any results there, but if the next step has got to be taken by this administration, the Bush administration, and by the Sharon administration, what should those next steps be?

GERGES: This is again -- it is an excellent question. I think at the end of the day, we keep talking about the militant Palestinian groups who are opposed to the road map. It seems to me not only the militants. I mean, from my readings from the Palestinian media on a daily basis, not just the militant Palestinian groups -- Hamas, Jihad, and al Aqsa Martyr Brigades -- that even mainstream Palestinian society is deeply suspicious of the meager offerings by the Israeli government to dismantle a few outposts as opposed to inhabited settlements on the West Bank, and of course, the new attack, as I said, in fact it plays into the hands, not only the armed Palestinian groups, but also mainstream Palestinian society who basically is very suspicious of the road map, as one Palestinian leader put it yesterday, civil society leader, he said it's a trap.

What the United States and Israel should do, Leon, here is to empower mainstream Palestinian society, to give it hope, a stake in the future. This is the most effective means to isolate the militants and empower the reformist camp in the Palestinians. How you empower Mahmoud Abbas, the new Palestinian prime minister, is to really show that he can make a marked improvement in Palestinian lives and, of course, to show that the end of Israeli military occupation is near. This is the most effective way to end violence, to isolate the militants on the Palestinian sides and the Israeli action yesterday does not help in this process.

HARRIS: You are not surprised at all, though, to see all of this happen? Do you think in any way that perhaps the gap between Palestinians and Israelis, even at this point, has been underestimated?

GERGES: You know, Leon, despite everything that has happened in the last 33 months, since the outbreak of the armed Palestinian intifada, majorities, large majorities on both the Israeli and Palestinian side, still subscribe to a peace settlement, a peace settlement based on the international consensus, two states living side by side in peace.

This is really fascinating. Despite the bloodshed, more than 700 Israelis have been killed, more than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed, more than 50 percent of Israelis and Palestinians still subscribe to the peace process, a settlement based on international consensus.

The danger lies in the fact that you have dissubscribed (ph) groups in both camps, in the Palestinian camp and the Israeli camp who are dissubscribed (ph), and, of course, would like to undermine the road map, and this is why presidential involvement is crucial. The president must remain engaged personally in the peace process and invest political capital in order to nudge both parties into the negotiating table.

HARRIS: Well, our jobs are going to be to stand on the sidelines and see just how that process all plays out and whether or not President Bush does stay engaged. Thank you very much, Professor Fawaz Gerges. Appreciate that. Hope to talk to you some time down the road.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com