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CNN LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE
Republicans, Democrats Trade Fire Over Iraqi Weapons
Aired June 11, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Republicans and Democrats trade fire over Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. The Republicans today rejected Democratic calls for an investigation into the way pre-war intelligence was handled.
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Senator Pat Roberts joins us tonight.
And, a dramatic development in the accounting scandal at Freddie Mac tonight, federal prosecutors today announced a criminal investigation of the quasi governmental agency. Jan Hopkins will report.
And, the market popped higher today. The three main market indexes closed at the highest levels in fact of the year that after the Federal Reserve said there are signs of economic recovery, Christine Romans with the market.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Wednesday, June 11, here now Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everyone.
Tonight, the Middle East peace process is in danger of being swept away by an escalating cycle of violence. President Bush called upon the world to stop terrorism after a suicide bomb attack on a bus in Jerusalem today. Sixteen people were killed, at least 70 were injured. Shortly afterward, Israel killed seven people in Gaza, two of them members of Hamas.
We have two reports. Mike Hanna is in Jerusalem, but first we go to Kelly Wallace in Gaza where there have been more Israeli helicopter attacks tonight -- Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the latest Israeli operation took place just about an hour ago, three Israeli Apache helicopters in the air firing two missiles on a car in a neighborhood east of Gaza City. Palestinian sources saying two Palestinians were killed believed to be members of the radical Palestinian group Hamas, one person injured.
Israeli security sources are saying the target here was going after a cell involved in the firing of homemade rockets at Israel. Security sources are stressing that this operation had no connection whatsoever to that Jerusalem bus bombing earlier in the day which left 16 people dead.
Now, it was just after that bus bombing, Lou, as you said when Israeli Apache helicopters were in the air over Gaza City. It appeared to be immediate retaliation for the bus bombing but Israeli sources say that was not the case that that operation was planned in advance and that the timing was purely coincidental.
In that aerial attack seven people killed, three at this hour believed to be members of Hamas and four believed to be bystanders, including two sisters. Now, this all coming after two other Israeli aerial assaults on Tuesday, including a failed attempt to kill the public face of Hamas here in Gaza, Abdel Aziz Rantisi.
After that, Hamas leaders were vowing to retaliate in a big way and they say they did. The group came out late this day claiming responsibility for the Jerusalem bus bombing. Lou, now we are in this very familiar cycle of attack and counterattack, unclear where both sides go from here.
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is saying he is still committed to the political process but says he will go after Palestinian militants in his words to the end. Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas came out and condemned the Jerusalem bus bombing but also condemned the Israeli military actions saying these steps do not help him in any way try and achieve some type of ceasefire with these groups -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kelly, thank you very much, Kelly Wallace reporting from Gaza.
As Kelly just reported Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Israel will continue to pursue terrorists after today's suicide attack in Jerusalem. Mike Hanna joins us now live from Jerusalem -- Mike.
MIKE HANNA, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Lou, Israelis have been bracing themselves for some form of attack in the wake of that failed assassination attempt in Gaza Tuesday, and indeed that attack came.
In the early evening a Palestinian suicide bomber disguised as an Orthodox Jew climbed aboard Bus 14 on Jaffa (ph) Road, the main thoroughfare through the middle of downtown Jerusalem and he detonated an explosive device. Thirteen people died on the scene, another three died after being admitted to hospital. Well over 70 people were injured.
The suicide bomber has been identified as an 18-year-old from the West Bank city of Hebron. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack saying that it was in retaliation for the Israeli operation in Gaza City.
From Israel, absolute condemnation of the attack and the pledge from Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that he will continue to protect Israelis, to protect Israeli security, and to take action against those planning terror attacks wherever they might be. Condemnation too from the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, and the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat that all of this leave the U.S.-backed road map, a plan that was intended to end the conflict after nearly three years lying in absolute tatters.
The attack in Jerusalem, once again, raising Israeli anger to exceedingly high levels and the Israeli operations in the Gaza Strip having the same effect among militant Palestinian organizations.
So, the hope that had been so high a week ago when the two prime ministers shook hands in Jordan in front of U.S. President George W. Bush now completely fallen apart it does appear, Lou, very hard to see where that road map goes from here apart from being folded up and put away at this stage.
DOBBS: Mike, it is understandable, anger in Israel, anger as there has been throughout on the part of the Palestinians. When you say the anger has risen here and that the road map is in tatters, the one thing that is different is this time, at least, in this all too familiar cycle of violence is that President Bush has put his prestige, his office and his administration on the line. What is the sense there that there will be a difference this time?
HANNA: Well, all parties seeking peace are deeply hoping that there will be a difference this time, and as you correctly say there is a difference in this particular period after a process because of the personal involvement of the U.S. president, because he gave his assurances to all parties in recent weeks that he would remain committed, that he would see this through.
Nobody expected that this process was going to be easy. Nobody expected that there were not going to be hurdles in the way, and all parties who are committed to peace in the region, or who have said they are committed to peace, do accept U.S. President Bush as the honest arbitrator in the matter and they're well aware too that he has in the past made good on commitments that he has personally given.
He's done so in this case. People in the region who are seeking peace are looking for tangible aspects of that, perhaps a high level envoy being sent out in the region. Certainly, they do need some outside agency and are looking to the White House to provide that -- Lou.
DOBBS: Mike, thank you very much, Mike Hanna reporting live from Jerusalem.
President Bush condemned the suicide bombing in the strongest possible terms. The president called on countries to cut off funds to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups, White House Correspondent Chris Burns reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS BURNS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A day after diplomatically riding herd on Israel, President Bush faces yet more Mid East turmoil. He lashes out at Palestinian militants he says are intent on scuttling the road map to peace.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is clear there are people in the Middle East who hate peace.
BURNS: The president appears to hold out hope the new Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas can forge a truce among the militants though there's growing frustration in the Bush administration with Abbas' current inability to do so, this as Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon seeks to neutralize the militants by force.
MARTIN INDYK, SAVAN CTR. FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY: The road map is not dead yet but it is in a coma and it's essentially on life support until and unless the president can find a way to get Prime Minister Abbas to act, to stop the terrorism, and in the process to get Prime Minister Sharon to hold back.
BURNS: Instead of direct public pressure on either side, the president calls on the world, read Arab world, to help shut down the militant sources of support.
BUSH: I strongly urge all of you to fight off terror, to cut off money to organizations such as Hamas, to isolate those who hate so much that they're willing to kill to stop peace from going forward.
BURNS: But for a second day the president avoids reporters' questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would Israel be justified in going after Hamas, sir?
BURNS: Little more overt action beyond reports of feverish phone contacts with the Middle East and plans for the promised U.S. troubleshooting team to arrive in the region in the coming days.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNS: Now, unable to break this latest spiral of violence, it appears President Bush is avoiding getting any deeper publicly into a deteriorating situation and though he's committed himself publicly to going the distance in the peace process, he seems to be leaving it to behind the scenes diplomacy right now and hoping for a period of calm -- Lou.
DOBBS: Public words at this point doing little to change the direction of this cycle of violence. Chris, thank you very much, Chris Burns reporting from the White House.
The chairman of the Armed Services Committee, Senator John Warner today told CNN that a NATO peacekeeping force should be sent to the Middle East.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: The presence of NATO, I think, at the invitation of both governments, would bring about some measure of greater stability so that the process can go forward and the Palestinian Prime Minister can get a better grip on the internal security in his country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: We'll be talking about Senator Warner's proposal and all of the issues surrounding the violence in Jerusalem today and the Mid East peace process with two of the country's leading experts later here in the broadcast.
Secretary of State Colin Powell met the U.N. secretary-general in Washington today and Kofi Annan and Colin Powell both urged everyone to continue to support the road map to peace agreed to at the Aqaba Summit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: This is the time for us to remain steadfast, to continue moving down the path that was laid out at Aqaba last week by the leaders who were assembled.
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: We all were very hopeful after the meetings of Aqaba and the statements the leaders made with the strong support of the president. We thought finally we were going to move forward and I hope the leaders will not be deterred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: At the United Nations on the issue of the search for weapons of mass destruction, diplomatic language seemed to be far from the mind of the retiring Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector Hans Blix today. Blix was quoted as saying there are bastards in Washington who planted nasty stories about him in the media, Senior United Nations Correspondent Richard Roth reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: And then we have the presidential sites.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Satellite photographs on his office wall are the only way Hans Blix can see Iraq these days. The chief weapons inspector and his international searchers are shut out of Iraq by the U.S.
But in his final days on the job, Blix is speaking out more, angry over how he feels he was treated by some in the U.S. government. In an interview in "The Guardian" newspaper, Blix said:
"I have my detractors in Washington. There are bastards who spread things around, of course, who planted nasty things in the media. Not that I cared very much."
BLIX: Well, I said it vexes me if I have what I regard as totally unjustified accusations but I don't lose sleep over it and I have certainly continued my job here. ROTH (on camera): You used a word beginning with a "B".
BLIX: Ah, yes, yes. Well, I wasn't sure that would be printed. I don't think it will be printed in America.
ROTH: So, do you think they were, to use the word printed, bastards?
BLIX: Well, I certainly thought, had a low opinion about these detractors but it's not really worth much time.
ROTH (voice-over): Blix in print said some elements of the Pentagon were behind a smear campaign against him.
BLIX: Clearly one of the former Swedish deputy prime minister writes in "Washington Times" or in the "Wall Street Journal" and I haven't met the guy since the '70s and evidently some of the information must have come from private sources in the U.S. There was something wrong.
POWELL: No smear campaign that I'm aware of. I have high regard for Dr. Blix. I worked very closely with Dr. Blix over the last eight or nine months. I know that the president had confidence in him as well and what we're doing now is looking forward not looking backwards.
ROTH: Secretary Powell's briefing to the Security Council has yet to bear fruit on the ground. Blix says he received little intelligence during his time in Iraq his teams could ever confirm, and the former Swedish foreign minister had this warning for the future.
BLIX: I think one has to be cautious in making use of the armed force on flimsy or shaky grounds.
ROTH (on camera): Hans Blix may have even more to say. He's expected to write a book. Secretary-General Annan defended the chief inspector, adding we haven't heard the last of him.
Richard Roth, CNN, United Nations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And, Blix did acknowledge that there would have been no progress at all on the part of the U.N. weapons inspection process had it not been for the presence of 200,000 coalition troops in the region.
Still ahead tonight, silencing the critics, Senator Pat Roberts chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee. He will spearhead closed door hearings on intelligence leading up to the war. He joins us later in the broadcast.
And, a criminal investigation, the furor, the fury over Freddie Mac intensifies, Jan Hopkins will report. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Some good news and some suggestion that the economy remains sluggish around most of the country. In April and May, the Federal Reserve so-called Beige Book found that the end of major combat operations in Iraq has given in fact some lift to business and consumer confidence; however, it is stressed that the effects were not dramatic. The Feds said consumer spending remains lackluster, manufacturing mixed.
Blue chip stocks soared for a second straight day. The Dow Jones Industrials up 128 points. The NASDAQ rose 18 points and the S&P 500 up almost 13 points. Christine Romans with the market for us -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Strong in the latter part of the day and you know this is new highs for the year, 11-month high for the Dow and the S&P and, Lou, more than two stocks rose for each that fell at the big board, so the advance still very broad.
IBM rallying three percent after Merrill Lynch put it on its focus list despite an SEC probe. AT&T rallied six percent. Keep in mind, folks, it's still the worst performer this year in the Dow and the S&P.
Freddie Mac, the number two most active at the big board. It fell three percent again today.
And, Texas Instruments dropped eight percent on a warning there. Semiconductors really a rare group not participating in today's rally, Lou. Morgan Stanley downgraded the whole bunch and the software group was mixed.
Tomorrow is Oracle's annual meeting. What will happen next with that hostile bid for PeopleSoft? Everyone's watching that space.
Oil prices rose about $32 a barrel today and look at this 15-year chart of the ten-year note. It briefly was at a new 45-year low today but a lot of folks pulling out some very long-term charts looking for support. You're hearing three percent, two and three-quarter percent, two and a half percent, one analyst today telling me it's crazy but they keep, those yields continue to fall.
And, Siebel shareholders, the latest to vote against expensing options. They also voted down linking executive pay with performance, protesters arguing, Lou that the company relies just too much on fixed price stock options for pay. They say to lose the ownership of all shareholders for the benefit of corporate insiders.
Unfortunately, Siebel not the only company to have its shareholders vote down such a move. You've seen a lot of different tech companies, including Intel vote against that.
DOBBS: Well, Intel with Andy Grove leading the way certainly is at least somewhat understandable the impact on their -- it would dilute, reduce their earnings considerably. But Siebel rejecting pay and performance doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? ROMANS: Well, it's interesting as well because the protesters, you know the people, the shareholders, have been getting a bigger chunk of that pie though. They've been losing these shareholder votes but they have been making their voices heard in these annual meetings.
DOBBS: And, I suspect the trend will continue. All right, Christine thank you very much, Christine Romans.
Seventy executives in all of corporate America have now been charges, 16 of them from Enron. ImClone's founder, former CEO Sam Waksal yesterday became the first person to be sentenced to jail. It's now been 555 days since Enron filed for bankruptcy and set off this national corporate corruption scandal.
Checking now on the national debt, it stands at more than $6,580,000,000,000 tonight, up $4 billion from last evening.
Coming up next, a criminal investigation at Freddie Mac, jitters in the housing market, and fresh fears for the economy. Jan Hopkins will wrap it all up here.
And, violence on the road to peace, President Bush wants terrorist funding cut off at the source. Two leading experts on the Middle East join us next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The accounting scandal at Freddie Mac has prompted an investigation, this one a criminal investigation. Federal prosecutors today said they have opened a probe into the mortgage company. The SEC is also of course investigating.
Jan Hopkins reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAN HOPKINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One-quarter of all mortgages are owned by Freddie Mac. It is the fourth largest financial institution in the country. Some worry the scandal could unravel the housing boom or lead to a huge taxpayer bailout like the S&L crisis.
PETER WALLISON, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: These two companies, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are so vital to the housing market that if there were to be a serious problem with either of them, it could have a systemic effect on our entire economy.
HOPKINS: The U.S. attorney in Virginia has launched a criminal investigation into Freddie Mac. The SEC is looking into the matter, and Congress wants to know why there wasn't more oversight of such an important agency.
REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: I don't think they have to worry about their mortgages but I do think investors have to worry about their ownership in these companies.
HOPKINS: One of the Wall Street firms that rates Freddie Mac bonds is afraid there is more dirt to be unearthed.
ERIK EISENSTEIN, STANDARD & POOR'S: I think the market is a little concerned about what's behind door number three.
HOPKINS: The Federal Reserve has been watching Freddie Mac and its cousin Fannie Mae for some time. William Poole of the St. Louis Fed expressed concern in a March speech, Poole saying:
"Should either Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae be rocked by a mistake or by an unforecastable shock, the result could be a crisis in the U.S. financial markets that would inflict considerable damage."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOPKINS: Despite all of the fear so far, the housing market is stable and mortgage brokers say that they have no trouble getting loans. Mortgage rates continue to fall to new 40-year lows, now at just over five percent for a 30-year mortgage -- Lou.
DOBBS: The three executives, the top three executives of Freddie Mac who left Friday, what kind of compensation package are they getting in this exit?
HOPKINS: Well, the one David Glenn, he was the COO.
DOBBS: The chief operating officer.
HOPKINS: Right. He was let go for cause. He gets nothing but -- and he's forfeiting $11 million in stock options. Now, Leland Brendsel, who resigned after he was asked to resign, he has a contract. He's getting about $3 million in compensation and $21 million in vested stock.
DOBBS: Incredible.
HOPKINS: And investors have lost market cap down about $7 billion.
DOBBS: Seven billion dollars. Quite a week, all right, Jan thanks, Jan Hopkins.
Time now to check on the trade deficit which tonight stands at more than $225 billion.
Still ahead here, violence rocks the Middle East. Could it be enough to derail the peace talks? Two leading Middle East experts join us.
And, Washington divided over Saddam's weapons of mass destruction Senator Pat Roberts says so far no evidence to support claims of wrongdoing on the part of the administration. He is our guest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, efforts to control the spread of the monkeypox virus have intensified. The government has banned altogether the sale of prairie dogs in this country, which spread that disease to humans. The government is also prohibiting the import of all rodents from Africa where that virus originated.
The CDC is monitoring 54 suspected cases now of monkeypox and is recommending smallpox shots for people who have been exposed to the virus.
NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe says space shuttles will now be launched only during the daytime. The switch will allow cameras to photograph any damage that occurs on liftoff. Astronauts will also be making extra space walks to inspect the craft for any possible damage.
Scientists say three skulls discovered in Ethiopia are the oldest human beings ever found. The skulls are estimated to be 160,000 years old. Those scientists say the remains boost the theory that modern man evolved out of the continent of Africa.
Sammy Sosa will not be in the game tonight when the Chicago Cubs play Baltimore. Major League Baseball suspected Sosa for seven games for using a corked bat. Sosa's suspension was reduced from eight games to seven after he appealed.
Turning now to the Middle East and the peace process and the escalating violence between Israelis and Palestinians, a suicide bomber killed 16 people today and wounded 70 others on a bus in Jerusalem. The attack came exactly a week after the Aqaba Summit among President Bush and the Israeli and Palestinian prime ministers.
Afterward, Israel launched a series of helicopter attacks on Gaza. The latest attack took place this evening. Kelly Wallace in Gaza reports at least two radical Islamists were killed. Earlier, Israel killed seven people including two members of Hamas which took responsibility for the bombing.
President Bush today called upon all countries to cut off funds that go to Hamas and other radical Palestinians.
Joining me now, two leading experts on Middle Eastern terrorism; Rohan Gunaratna is a former investigator with the U.N. terrorism branch, author of "Inside al Qaeda, the Global Terror Network;" Matthew Levitt, former FBI terrorism analyst. He's now a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Thanks for being with us gentlemen.
MATTHEW LEVITT, FMR. FBI TERRORISM ANALYST: Pleasure.
ROHAN GUNARATNA, AUTHOR, "INSIDE AL QAEDA": Thank you.
DOBBS: Hamas, is there any way to stop this organization? Let me turn -- let me ask you first, Matthew.
LEVITT: Well, the key as you mentioned earlier as the president mentioned today is to shut down the funding. Terrorist groups need support. They need money both to buy weapons and, in the case of Hamas, to run the social welfare network that both garners grassroots support and enables it to conduct widespread activities to support its terrorist activities.
The social infrastructure is well-known as places to hide caches of weapons and even in one instance, under a playground of a kindergarten, to be used as meeting places, etcetera. Today many states in the Arab world and the European Union don't list Hamas as a terrorist organization. Individual countries in Europe do but the E.U. does not.
DOBBS: Rohan, you worked with the U.N. how can that be?
ROHAN GUNARATNA, FMR. U.N. TERRORISM INVESTIGATOR: Well, that is correct. Because there are no fire walls between the political, military and the social, economic and welfare structures of Hamas. It is very important to target all those institutions at the same time to ensure that Hamas is operationally shut down.
DOBBS: And why has there been resistance to so categorize the Hamas, a radical Islamists, obviously, they're a terrorist organization.
GUNARATNA: It is because this organization has existed for a long time. And they have politicized and radicalized even moderate Muslims. It is very important to take early action against such extremist organizations, that preach violence and hatred. And are not willing to be part of a compromise solution. Hamas even operated inside the United States.
DOBBS: Let me ask both of you, gentlemen this question, and let me begin with you, Matthew. It is apparent to everyone that terrorism cannot exist without state sponsorship. That Hamas is getting that sponsorship, that funding.
Who are the states -- which states support Hamas and what can done to stop it.
LEVITT: Well, it's interesting. Since the rise of al Qaeda, people assume that is the age of loosely affiliated terrorist groups and it is but they forgot about the state sponsors. Iran is a very proactive -- the most proactive state sponsor. It's much more significant to Hezbollah, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, but fiances Hamas as well. Hamas, is also getting funding from Saudi Arabia. Not so much from the government although government sanctioned telethons, but from wealthy individuals and that's tolerated from the government, and front organizations in Europe and the United States. It's critically important to shut down all of those different financing mechanisms and Iran is a very, very disturbing player in the case. In the case of Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah, almost all of the money comes from Iran and need to deal with that and deal with it immediately.
DOBBS: Rohan.
GUNARATNA: Certainly. I believe that finance which is the life blood of a terrorist organization must be crippled. But also, it is very important to insure that key Hamas leaders who are operating outside the Palestinian areas should be brought to justice. To mount significant pressure on the organization to cooperate, to insure that there is a settlement in the Middle East.
DOBBS: There is a beginning to a new Middle East here as a result of the war against Saddam Hussein and the regime change that's taken place there. There's the presence of U.S. troops.
Are we seeing a change in the attitudes of the Arab states themselves, particularly Saudi Arabia, Syria, which supports Hamas, as well as Hezbollah?
Are we seeing any change there or is there a great deal work more to be done -- Rohan.
LEVITT: I would say insignificant change. Secretary of State Powell went to Syria and asked them to shut down the headquarters Of Hamas and Islamic Jihad operating there and in a small number of cases, removed the plaque from the door but not more. In the wake of the Riyadh bombings, we would expecting the Saudi's to be much more forthcoming than they have been. They cracked down on terrorist operatives in the kingdom, which you would expect them to do. But to date, yet to crack down on the terrorist financing that emanates from the kingdom. And many examples, recent post the Riyadh bombings of the financing continuing. You'd think there would be a greater willingness to cooperate. In fact, we have not yet seen that.
DOBBS: Rohan.
GUNARATNA: The regulation of charities, very important, because still, many of the charities active are not accountable. There is not enough transparency. They must be made accountable to the end user. Also, the banking -- the banks must be held responsible for transfers. But more than this, the United States must more aggressively engage governments such as Iran and Syria to insure that there is no support for groups like Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Brigade.
DOBBS: Let's move to the extension of what you gentlemen are saying. Is it necessary then that U.S. troops, says Senator John Warner today, as you know, proposed NATO troops be placed in between the Israelis and the Palestinian to insure peace. Are you really saying there should be military action if there's no other way to stop the support of terrorism against Syria, against Iran?
Matthew, let me start with you.
LEVITT: Inserting international peacekeepers in West Bank and Gaza seems attractive to a complicated problem. In fact, it would a terrible, terrible idea. The key to the road map and to previous efforts, what's good is it requires both parties, Israelis and Palestinians to take responsibility. And in the Palestinian case, in particular, they have never been required to take responsibility for their actions. Mediators who were involved in the first rounds of the peace process admit to that now. So it's critical...
DOBBS: What about the Israeli side, Matthew?
LEVITT: Of course it cuts both ways. The Israelis happy to see dismantled outposts. Even among those that it was a viable military target, even people that say that admit that this was horrible, horrible timing on the part of the Israelis and the reason why the administration rightly so very upset with this action at this time.
DOBBS: Rohan.
GUNARATNA: NATO troops will not help at all. Hamas will target the NATO troops. It is very important to look at this problem from a very long range perspective and to deal more effectively with Hamas and with the PIJ, and with the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. It's also important to empower the Palestinian Authority and to persuade them to deal with the organizations. There's no better entity to deal with these groups other than the Palestinian Authority itself. Because this authority can give up the intelligence that is required to fight against these groups, and also, can mount significant political and social pressure on these organizations.
DOBBS: Rohan Gunarathna, thank you very much. Matthew Levitt, thank you for joining us.
LEVITT: Thank you.
GUNARATNA: Thank you.
DOBBS: That brings us to the "Quote of the Day." This time, from an Israeli official who today spoke out against the bombings in the Middle East.
"This suicide bomb is against the peace, it's being done by the enemies of peace, by the enemies of Abu Mazen and by the enemies of the state of Israel. The only answer will be a fight against terror."
This if from Israeli Foreign Minister Gideon Meir.
That brings us to the poll question of the evening. "Who should be most responsible for resolving the crisis in the Middle East?" The United States, the United Nations, Israelis and Palestinians, or the Arab States?
Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. Tonight we will have the preliminary results later in the broadcast.
The final results of yesterday's poll question "Which will happen first, 14 percent said Iraqi weapons of mass destruction will be found, 14 percent said U.S. troops leave Iraq, 61 percent said life on Mars discovered, 11 percent said Ken Lay will be charged.
When we continue, weapons of mass destruction, the debate divided Washington. Claims of manipulation by the Bush administration. Senator Pat Roberts, the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee joins us.
And the global war on AIDS. Business leaders taking up the fight. We'll talk with one of the key figures leading the charge. Live from the Kennedy Center in Washington.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Iran is likely to have nuclear weapons in a relatively short period of time. Rumsfeld, while in Germany, said Iran has an active nuclear program. But the defense secretary said Teheran does not appear to have yet nuclear weapons.
The controversy over the intelligence on Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction is intensifying on Capitol Hill. Today, leading Republicans from the Senate and House held a news conference to criticize Democratic calls for a Congressional investigation.
National security correspondent, David Ensor, has the story -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, responding to the charges of cooked intelligence or hype from the Bush administration on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and ties to terrorists, the senior Republicans said they're conducting a careful review of the intelligence supplied to the administration before the war, that they will hold some closed hearings next week; however, the chairman of the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services committees rejected Democratic calls for an immediate and full investigation and for public hearings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARNER: The evidence that I have examined does not rise to give the presumption that anyone in this administration has hyped or cooked or embellished such evidence to a particular purpose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D-WV), VICE CHMN., SENATE INTEL. CMTE: But I'm going to tell you something. We need to have a very tough investigation. We need to know what those analysis were -- and not just from the CIA but all of the intelligence agencies and we need to pursue it aggressively. We need to have a final report. That report has to be made to the American people. We need to have public hearings. And we need to be able to call witnesses -- you know, witnesses who don't agree -- who worked for intelligence agencies that don't agree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ENSOR: The Democrats want to ask a lot of questions. Why did the president insist Iraq was an imminent danger when U.S. intelligence was only saying that Iraq still had some of the weapons of mass destruction from before the Gulf War and might or might not be trying to make new ones?
For their part, administration officials say they want to focus their attention on finding Iraq's weapons, which intelligence officials remain convinced do exist but say may take some time to find. Finding something would probably be the best or quickest way to end this debate, Lou.
DOBBS: Indeed it would. David, thank you very much. David Ensor, our national security correspondent, from Washington.
Last night here, we talked with Senator Carl Levin, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Senator Levin said there is some evidence the government inflated the evidence before the war.
Joining me now is the Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Pat Roberts.
Senator Pat Roberts joining us from Washington and we thank you for being here, sir.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-KS), CHMN., SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Lou, thank you very much for the opportunity.
DOBBS: You said you decided today not to pursue an investigation by your committee. Why not?
ROBERTS: Well, basically we said we want to complete and thorough review of the documentation. We just talked to George Tenet this afternoon. Both Senator Rockefeller and myself -- I don't think that there's much of a debate. Much of the goals that Senator Rockefeller outlined in regard to witnesses, a public statement we having our hearings, anybody else that thinks that they may have seen their analytical products skewed in any way. We all agree on that.
It's just that we think we ought to go through the documentation first. That is our responsibility on the Intelligence Committee. We want to do our homework first, educate members first so that when members really criticize, they've had ample time to go through the entire documentation. Not only with WMD, but the alleged terrorist activity which I think has occurred.
DOBBS: Senator, each certainly of the members on your committee looked at the intelligence in the months leading up to the decision by the president to go to war against Saddam Hussein. Was there any indication in any of the intelligence that you saw that did not justify the statement that there are weapons of mass destruction or conversely, that there were?
ROBERTS: No. No, as a matter of fact, if you go back, clear back to the first Gulf War and the IAEA, the International Atomic Agency, who indicated about three months, I think, after the war, there wasn't any nuclear capability, that Saddam Hussein had. Then in six months, they said, Woops, we got a tip and he does have that capability.
If you carry that on, British intelligence, French intelligence, American intelligence, U.N. inspection teams, even Mr. Blix have indicated that he had a weapons of mass destruction program. The key now is where is it? And in behalf of our national security, that seems to be the key question.
But I found, at least in the information that I have as chairman, no evidence of any manipulation. And one of the things that I said today, Lou -- and I think it's very important, if there's anybody there now working for any of the 14 agencies that comprise the intelligence community, that thinks that they have been coerced or intimidated or had their analytical products skewered in any way, please come to the committee. We have had nobody to do that. Porter Goss, who's the chairman of the House committee on intelligence, has had nobody come to the floor. We will keep it in confidence. That's part of our job. And so that's what I said during the press conference.
DOBBS: Would that be sufficient, senator, for you to launch an investigation?
ROBERTS: If somebody comes forward and/or if as we go through the full documentation, and it is very voluminous, and we find some egregious error or mistake or mistake in judgment -- and that will be a bipartisanship judgment, by the way, on both sides, obviously, some further action would have to be taken. We'd have to make a decision at that time. I don't expect that to happen, but it could.
DOBBS: Senator, let me ask you this going forward. Now, great concern being expressed by the Defense Department, also the State Department, the administration about Iran, its nuclear weapons program. After all of the discussion about weapons of mass destruction, and the inability of our forces in Iraq to find those, based on the intelligence pre-war, does it concern you that we may have some serious deficiencies in our intelligence gathering capabilities that makes it difficult to correctly assess what's going on?
ROBERTS: Right. That's one of the questions that people have concern about and I share that concern. But to date, I do not have that sense.
As a matter of fact, I think the intelligence we have received today from Mr. Tenet and we do on a weekly basis during what we call the hot spot and the threat briefing, and if we find out any other information that certainly needs looking into, why, we stop right there and we have that hearing. I just don't share that view.
You know, everybody expects intelligence to be explicit, highly granualized. That's the latest word that people use. Intelligence just doesn't do that. If you try to connect the dots, you may have 10 dots out there, you've connected three. Now does that really mean that you go forth with that kind of information? After 9/11, it does. And one of the things that I'm concerned about is, here's a little tad bit of politics being played here by several presidential candidates, and now this call for a formal investigation on top of an investigation we just had with 9/11.
What worries me is now, after 9/11, one of the -- one of the bottom line -- what, I guess, observations is, is that we didn't want to be risk averse. Now with all this so-called talk of an investigation before we do our homework, before we even take a look at the evidence, I think is having a bad effect on the intelligence community. We don't need to be beating up on the intelligence community about the head and shoulders.
We do need to find out what kind of an analytical product it was and then what happened from that stage to the policymakers. And we will find out.
DOBBS: And how soon do you expect to have that conclusion?
ROBERTS: I would hope we could wrap it up in a month. But having said that, these things tend to drag out and quite frankly, if we do due diligence with the kind of information we have -- and as I said, it's very voluminous -- both on the terrorist activity with inside Iraq and then the justification for the public statements -- and we're talking about all of the intelligence community -- that's going to take some time for members to wade through. And I'm going to insist that members themselves wade through this product and actually do the so-called investigating or the thorough review themselves so that they have a better idea or a better judgment as exactly to the veracity of the intelligence.
DOBBS: Senator Pat Roberts, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, thank you very much for being with us.
ROBERTS: Thank you, Lou. Thank you so much.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in the poll. The question is: "Who should be responsible, most responsible for resolving the crisis in the Middle East? "The United States, the United Nations, Israelis and Palestinians, or the Arab states?" Cast your vote at cnn.com/moneyline. We'll be bringing you the results in just a few minutes.
Turning to our "Thought of the Day" now, some advice on how to look at things. "I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else." That from Sir Winston Churchill.
Coming up next, declaring war on AIDS. Leaders from the worlds of business and policy join forces in a global fight against the deadly disease.
And your thoughts on former ImClone CEO Sam Waksal's prison sentence and much more still ahead.
Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Business leaders gathered in Washington promoting the fight against AIDS today. More than 42 million people around the world are now infected with the virus. There is still no cure. Tonight, hundreds of business and political leaders are gathering at the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C. to encourage the role of business in fighting AIDS all around the world. Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Richard Holbrooke, the president and CEO of the Global Coalition on HIV/AIDS joins us tonight. Ambassador, what would you say is the level of progress on the part of the business community in fighting AIDS?
RICHARD HOLBROOKE, PRESIDENT, CEO, GLOBAL COALITION ON HIV/AIDS: Lou, it's so good to be with you here from the Kennedy Center tonight, and in answer to your first question, it's very simple. Business has a vital role to play. We just scratched the surface. The Global Business Coalition, which is having its annual dinner tonight, with Colin Powell as our main speaker, is 113 companies now, up from 15 a year and a half ago.
But honestly, let me be honest. This is not an evening of self- congratulations. Business has just scratched the surface. They must clean out their own workplaces, particularly those companies that work in the highly affected areas in Africa and India, spread the word and do more.
DOBBS: Well, 12,000 people a day contract HIV/AIDS. Nine thousand...
HOLBROOKE: Lou, Lou, can I just underscore what you're saying? Because we all know the statistics. But let me put it more specifically. AIDS is the ultimate weapon of mass destruction. The numbers you were starting, and I apologize for interrupting, but three times as many people per day are dying of it as at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. More people than were killed in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. This is the weapon of mass destruction, and I'm so glad that we get a chance to tell business through MONEYLINE that they have a role to play and most businesses aren't playing.
DOBBS: And as you tonight meet, we're going to honor, I know it's not an awards dinner, but you're going to honor two companies in particular. which of those two companies -- we're about out of time, Ambassador, that are going to be honored for taking leadership roles?
HOLBROOKE: Tonight, Standard Chartered Bank and Tata Steel of India. Our chairman is Jurgen Schrempp, the CEO of DaimlerChrysler. DaimlerChrysler has been the leader and won the award last year, and Jurgen, who couldn't be with us on this interview, is deeply involved, this is an international effort. And I appreciate the chance to talk through you to the business community of the world.
DOBBS: We're delighted to have you with us, and congratulations on your evening and the progress that you intend to...
HOLBROOKE: We're not congratulating -- we're not congratulating ourselves...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Still ahead, the preliminary results of tonight's poll. We'll share some of your e-mails on the corporate crime and the crackdown. Sam Waksal and a great deal more is still ahead here. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Checking the preliminary results of our poll tonight, the question, who should be most responsible for resolving the crisis in the Middle East? Thirteen percent said the United Nations. United Nations, 28. Israelis and Palestinians, 44 percent. The Arab states, 15 percent. We thank you for voting.
Now let's take a look at some of your thoughts. Many of you wrote in about the debate about finding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, and with some passion. Kevin Kirkpatrick of Haleyville, Alabama said: "If it was as easy to find the weapons of mass destruction as it would be to hide them, then there would not have been a war." An excellent point.
And on the topic of corporate crime, Tom Austin of Cleveland, Ohio said: "The discovery of still more accounting gimmickry, auditing trickery and executive compensation treachery at Freddie Mac is further evidence of a climate of corporate abuse that has reached a near epidemic proportion. Claims that the world's confidence was shaken by but a few bad apples is looking more and more disingenuous."
Dennis from Iowa said about Sam Waksal's request to serve his seven-year jail term at Elgin federal prison in Florida: "Jail time at Elgin? Put them behind bars -- real steel. Have them make license plates until they pay all their investors back. More proof that if you have money, you can make your own jail reservations." Or perhaps avoid it altogether.
And L. Mutty from Connecticut wrote in to say: "Thank you for keeping the criminal scoreboard alive. We are all still waiting for Ken Lay to be charged, but alas, as your poll asked, most think that life on Mars will be found first!"
We appreciate hearing from you. E-mail us your thoughts at loudobbs@cnn.com. Thanks for being with us tonight. Tomorrow, our guests include professor Fawaz Gerges of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) college on whether the road map for Middle East peace will survive. For all of us here, good night from New York. "LIVE FROM THE HEADLINES" with Anderson Cooper is next.
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