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CNN Live At Daybreak

Bloodstained Middle East Road Map

Aired June 12, 2003 - 06:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Is the peace plan a pipe dream? It is quiet in the Middle East now, but for how long? Israeli military actions, suicide bombings and then more violence.
We take you live now to Jerusalem. Jerrold Kessel is there.

Jerrold -- are there any new moves to stop the violence?

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, if they are, they've got to come from outside, and they've got to come from the United States. But for the moment, it is the reminiscing and the looking back at the vortex of violence that hit the area yesterday.

And if it was violence yesterday, today it is funerals, funerals under way just a short time ago in Gaza, Hamas funerals. Four Palestinian militants were killed in those two Israeli airstrikes yesterday evening and late last night, and five Palestinian bystanders, as the Israeli rockets went off to those Hamas militants.

And the funerals will be held later today here in Jerusalem for many of those 16 people killed by a young Palestinian suicide bomber aboard the bus No. 14 in the heart of Jerusalem. Many of those are now being identified as elderly people, men and women, who were either on their way back from work in the late afternoon rush hour or heading into the city for evening shopping.

The problem with the road map to peace, that peace initiative, came up at the Israeli cabinet today, when Ariel Sharon brought his ministers up-to-date on the latest situation and his assessment of it. According to the Israeli estimate, Hamas, which claimed responsibility for that bus bombing in Jerusalem yesterday, plans to go on and it means to continue its bombing campaign against the Israelis. Prime Minister Sharon, for his part, is saying that Israel will hunt to the end, to the bitter end, the Hamas and other militant leaders. Strong words also from the prime minister about the Palestinian leadership this morning.

And the Israeli chief of staff saying to the cabinet, no point in reaching a cease-fire with Hamas; they are not to be dealt with. Israel will only go after the militants.

Bleak times for that peace initiative -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Jerrold Kessel live from Jerusalem this morning.

It's time to go deeper now. On the phone with us live, Fawaz Gerges, an expert on the Middle East and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College just outside of New York.

Good morning.

FAWAZ GERGES, MIDDLE EAST EXPERT: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, let's get right to the heart of the matter. Is this peace plan dead?

GERGES: Well, I think the so-called "road map," the peace initiative, is indeed very shaky, and I fear that the main casualties of the new cycle of violence between Israelis and Palestinians will be the road map, and, of course, the prime minister, the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas. In fact, there is really one point -- one big point to make about the new cycle of violence; in particular, the Israeli attack two days ago on the Hamas political leader, Rantissi, and then the retaliation by Hamas, is that these attacks have complicated the efforts of Mahmoud Abbas. And, of course, they have made his taks very difficult to find the means and efforts to end the armed intifada.

COSTELLO: Yes, you heard what Jerrold Kessel said. Jerrold Kessel said Ariel Sharon told the Israeli cabinet that Hamas plans to continue the bombing campaign, and Israel will hunt to the end. If this sort of thing continues, what can be done? What should be done? Should a force from NATO be sent in? Should U.S. troops be sent in? What should happen?

GERGES: Well, in fact, this is, again, another political question. Without outside intervention, I think the cycle of violence will continue. As you know, if we have learned one important lesson in the last 33 months since the outbreak of the Palestinian intifada is that really the other side succeeds in convincing the other that he has the upper hand. I mean, besides everything that Israel has done in the last 33 months, Hamas and Jihad and the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade still have the capacity to unleash violence and terror on Israel, and everything that Israel has done has not resolved the issue.

And this is why it is essential that the president himself, that our president, President Bush, remains personally engaged in the process, and now uses the weight and prestige of the presidency in order to force a cease-fire on both sides. And, yes, absolutely, if it takes a third force to at least get between the two sides so they can disengage from each other, this is the only way that you can really stop the cycle of violence that has been taking on -- has been going on for the last 33 months.

COSTELLO: So, who should fight the fight? Should it be U.S. troops? Should the Arab states get involved in this? Will Britain get involved again?

GERGES: I mean, let's make one point clear. Without I think America's efforts, I don't think you're going to see much movement on the Palestinian-Israeli peace process. Again, if history teaches us any lesson, not only that the United States must get involved, but also the president himself. And if the United States is very sensitive about putting its troops in the region, and, of course, it's a very dangerous situation, I would argue that the NATO troops would be some of the most acceptable and effective means to at least separate the two parties.

So, I would argue that, in particular NATO, NATO is the most qualified at this stage to try to separate the two (AUDIO GAP) such a scenario. And would the United States really push for such a scenario? I think these are -- this is a very difficult and complex initiative and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that without American leadership, I don't think a cease-fire can be achieved, and I don't think that a third force would be able to separate the two parties.

COSTELLO: Understand. Professor Gerges, thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate you waking up early with DAYBREAK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired June 12, 2003 - 06:02   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Is the peace plan a pipe dream? It is quiet in the Middle East now, but for how long? Israeli military actions, suicide bombings and then more violence.
We take you live now to Jerusalem. Jerrold Kessel is there.

Jerrold -- are there any new moves to stop the violence?

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, if they are, they've got to come from outside, and they've got to come from the United States. But for the moment, it is the reminiscing and the looking back at the vortex of violence that hit the area yesterday.

And if it was violence yesterday, today it is funerals, funerals under way just a short time ago in Gaza, Hamas funerals. Four Palestinian militants were killed in those two Israeli airstrikes yesterday evening and late last night, and five Palestinian bystanders, as the Israeli rockets went off to those Hamas militants.

And the funerals will be held later today here in Jerusalem for many of those 16 people killed by a young Palestinian suicide bomber aboard the bus No. 14 in the heart of Jerusalem. Many of those are now being identified as elderly people, men and women, who were either on their way back from work in the late afternoon rush hour or heading into the city for evening shopping.

The problem with the road map to peace, that peace initiative, came up at the Israeli cabinet today, when Ariel Sharon brought his ministers up-to-date on the latest situation and his assessment of it. According to the Israeli estimate, Hamas, which claimed responsibility for that bus bombing in Jerusalem yesterday, plans to go on and it means to continue its bombing campaign against the Israelis. Prime Minister Sharon, for his part, is saying that Israel will hunt to the end, to the bitter end, the Hamas and other militant leaders. Strong words also from the prime minister about the Palestinian leadership this morning.

And the Israeli chief of staff saying to the cabinet, no point in reaching a cease-fire with Hamas; they are not to be dealt with. Israel will only go after the militants.

Bleak times for that peace initiative -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Jerrold Kessel live from Jerusalem this morning.

It's time to go deeper now. On the phone with us live, Fawaz Gerges, an expert on the Middle East and a professor at Sarah Lawrence College just outside of New York.

Good morning.

FAWAZ GERGES, MIDDLE EAST EXPERT: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, let's get right to the heart of the matter. Is this peace plan dead?

GERGES: Well, I think the so-called "road map," the peace initiative, is indeed very shaky, and I fear that the main casualties of the new cycle of violence between Israelis and Palestinians will be the road map, and, of course, the prime minister, the new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas. In fact, there is really one point -- one big point to make about the new cycle of violence; in particular, the Israeli attack two days ago on the Hamas political leader, Rantissi, and then the retaliation by Hamas, is that these attacks have complicated the efforts of Mahmoud Abbas. And, of course, they have made his taks very difficult to find the means and efforts to end the armed intifada.

COSTELLO: Yes, you heard what Jerrold Kessel said. Jerrold Kessel said Ariel Sharon told the Israeli cabinet that Hamas plans to continue the bombing campaign, and Israel will hunt to the end. If this sort of thing continues, what can be done? What should be done? Should a force from NATO be sent in? Should U.S. troops be sent in? What should happen?

GERGES: Well, in fact, this is, again, another political question. Without outside intervention, I think the cycle of violence will continue. As you know, if we have learned one important lesson in the last 33 months since the outbreak of the Palestinian intifada is that really the other side succeeds in convincing the other that he has the upper hand. I mean, besides everything that Israel has done in the last 33 months, Hamas and Jihad and the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade still have the capacity to unleash violence and terror on Israel, and everything that Israel has done has not resolved the issue.

And this is why it is essential that the president himself, that our president, President Bush, remains personally engaged in the process, and now uses the weight and prestige of the presidency in order to force a cease-fire on both sides. And, yes, absolutely, if it takes a third force to at least get between the two sides so they can disengage from each other, this is the only way that you can really stop the cycle of violence that has been taking on -- has been going on for the last 33 months.

COSTELLO: So, who should fight the fight? Should it be U.S. troops? Should the Arab states get involved in this? Will Britain get involved again?

GERGES: I mean, let's make one point clear. Without I think America's efforts, I don't think you're going to see much movement on the Palestinian-Israeli peace process. Again, if history teaches us any lesson, not only that the United States must get involved, but also the president himself. And if the United States is very sensitive about putting its troops in the region, and, of course, it's a very dangerous situation, I would argue that the NATO troops would be some of the most acceptable and effective means to at least separate the two parties.

So, I would argue that, in particular NATO, NATO is the most qualified at this stage to try to separate the two (AUDIO GAP) such a scenario. And would the United States really push for such a scenario? I think these are -- this is a very difficult and complex initiative and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that without American leadership, I don't think a cease-fire can be achieved, and I don't think that a third force would be able to separate the two parties.

COSTELLO: Understand. Professor Gerges, thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate you waking up early with DAYBREAK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.