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CNN Live At Daybreak

The Saddam Factor

Aired June 16, 2003 - 07:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get to Iraq again. The U.S. military thinks recent attacks on its soldiers in Baghdad north and west of the city are the work of fighters loyal to Saddam Hussein. That is why U.S. troops spanned out yet again today in hostile territory to try and round up attackers there.
The former dictator still seems to be a powerful figure in Iraq even though it is not even known whether or not he is alive or dead.

For more now, here is Jane Arraf working the story in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): His face has almost disappeared, but even with Americans in the palaces, Saddam Hussein is impossible to forget and unwise to dismiss.

In the Baghdad tea house that a young Saddam used to frequent when he was only dreaming of power, the owner and many of the patrons say they long for his return.

"We talk about him 24 hours a day," says owner, Furaq Bassan (ph). "We always say there is no one like Saddam who can lead this country."

Two months after the end of the war, the former president remains an elusive target. On April 7, the U.S. bombed this house in Baghdad, believing he was there. They're still doing DNA tests to see if he was.

The fear and hope that he might return is kept alive through reported sightings.

At the al-Chardalk (ph) tea house, where Baath members secretly met in the 1960s, several people said they saw Saddam after the bombing intended to kill him. Some said they saw him in the street as recently as this week.

Engineer Kamal Anwar (ph) says he and his brother were walking down the street on April 9 when Saddam got out of a car.

"He said, 'Do you have weapons? Throw them away.' We threw them. He stood in the middle of us, no guards, nothing. My brother said, 'Sir, won't we see you any more?' He said, 'No, why wouldn't you see me?'"

Anwar (ph) and others said they were waiting for Saddam to return and to return them to a time when gasoline was cheap and the streets were clean and safe.

U.S. officials acknowledge that while Saddam is unaccounted for, the Baath Party will exert a dangerous influence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because it allows the Baathists to go around in the bazaars and in the villages, as they're doing, saying Saddam is alive and he's going to come back and we're going to come back. And the effect of that is to make it more difficult for people who are afraid of the Baathists -- and that's just about everybody -- it makes it more difficult for them to come forward and cooperate with us.

ARRAF: With the U.S. pledging to pull the Baath Party up by their roots, its operations have been driven underground.

The name Baath means rebirth, originally intended to reawaken Arab nationalism. Die-hard Baath Party supporters await another resurrection.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Jane Arraf again reporting in Baghdad.

Still in the Iraqi capital, the question remains: What kind of role could Saddam Hussein be playing now?

Hassan Fattah of "The New Republic" is with us to talk about this.

What about it? What about the organization for these attacks? Is there evidence to suggest that that is the case?

HASSAN FATTAH, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Well, I think whether there is or not is largely irrelevant. The question is: Why do most Iraqis believe that Saddam Hussein is still alive? Why do most Iraqis believe that he is behind a lot of these attacks? That's the more important question really.

HEMMER: And the answer to that then is what when it comes to driving the motivation behind these attacks on American soldiers?

FATTAH: Well, I think there's this visceral fear that a lot of Iraqis have of what's going on. They feel left out of the system. They feel left out of a lot of what's going on in the halls of government. The halls of government are closed to them, and they don't really know where their country is headed. And I think that's a more salient issue today.

HEMMER: Yes, you say the average Iraqi does not hate the Americans; they just don't know where the Americans are taking them. That goes to your point that you just answered that.

FATTAH: Well, I would say that the average Iraqi doesn't hate Americans at all. He's very curious about Americans and doesn't know where the Americans are taking them. But I also think that the average Iraqis are afraid of the kind of mistakes that America will make in this occupation. HEMMER: Do you believe that some Iraqis are lying low, perhaps the majority are lying low, to await the fate of Saddam Hussein?

FATTAH: No doubt. I'm sure that there are a lot of loyalists of Saddam who are lying low and keeping quiet. You know, one of the problems that's happening is in this effort to de-Baathetize the country, we're sending the Baath loyalists underground, which I think is just as dangerous as having Saddam around, to be honest.

HEMMER: Yes. And when they talk about Saddam Hussein, what are the discussions these days regarding him?

FATTAH: Well, ultimately, it's a fear. It's a fear of the sense that Saddam and his men could take pot shots, could basically ruin the freedom that they now have.

HEMMER: Yes, and based on that freedom right now, what are you seeing in terms of improvements on a day-to-day basis for the Iraqi people?

FATTAH: Well, I think the improvements are really slow, really gradual. You do see more power. The security is slowly coming back, but there's still a long, long way to go. The average American wouldn't accept this life ever, really.

HEMMER: Yes. And when you talk to American soldiers, what's their attitude?

FATTAH: I think they're tired. They're hot. It's really hot here, as you can tell by my sweat. And it's -- they just want to go home, and you really can't blame them. They've been here for a long time and they're not really trained to police a nation, really.

HEMMER: Hassan Fattah, "The New Republic," live in Baghdad, thanks for talking with us.

FATTAH: Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired June 16, 2003 - 07:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get to Iraq again. The U.S. military thinks recent attacks on its soldiers in Baghdad north and west of the city are the work of fighters loyal to Saddam Hussein. That is why U.S. troops spanned out yet again today in hostile territory to try and round up attackers there.
The former dictator still seems to be a powerful figure in Iraq even though it is not even known whether or not he is alive or dead.

For more now, here is Jane Arraf working the story in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): His face has almost disappeared, but even with Americans in the palaces, Saddam Hussein is impossible to forget and unwise to dismiss.

In the Baghdad tea house that a young Saddam used to frequent when he was only dreaming of power, the owner and many of the patrons say they long for his return.

"We talk about him 24 hours a day," says owner, Furaq Bassan (ph). "We always say there is no one like Saddam who can lead this country."

Two months after the end of the war, the former president remains an elusive target. On April 7, the U.S. bombed this house in Baghdad, believing he was there. They're still doing DNA tests to see if he was.

The fear and hope that he might return is kept alive through reported sightings.

At the al-Chardalk (ph) tea house, where Baath members secretly met in the 1960s, several people said they saw Saddam after the bombing intended to kill him. Some said they saw him in the street as recently as this week.

Engineer Kamal Anwar (ph) says he and his brother were walking down the street on April 9 when Saddam got out of a car.

"He said, 'Do you have weapons? Throw them away.' We threw them. He stood in the middle of us, no guards, nothing. My brother said, 'Sir, won't we see you any more?' He said, 'No, why wouldn't you see me?'"

Anwar (ph) and others said they were waiting for Saddam to return and to return them to a time when gasoline was cheap and the streets were clean and safe.

U.S. officials acknowledge that while Saddam is unaccounted for, the Baath Party will exert a dangerous influence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because it allows the Baathists to go around in the bazaars and in the villages, as they're doing, saying Saddam is alive and he's going to come back and we're going to come back. And the effect of that is to make it more difficult for people who are afraid of the Baathists -- and that's just about everybody -- it makes it more difficult for them to come forward and cooperate with us.

ARRAF: With the U.S. pledging to pull the Baath Party up by their roots, its operations have been driven underground.

The name Baath means rebirth, originally intended to reawaken Arab nationalism. Die-hard Baath Party supporters await another resurrection.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Jane Arraf again reporting in Baghdad.

Still in the Iraqi capital, the question remains: What kind of role could Saddam Hussein be playing now?

Hassan Fattah of "The New Republic" is with us to talk about this.

What about it? What about the organization for these attacks? Is there evidence to suggest that that is the case?

HASSAN FATTAH, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Well, I think whether there is or not is largely irrelevant. The question is: Why do most Iraqis believe that Saddam Hussein is still alive? Why do most Iraqis believe that he is behind a lot of these attacks? That's the more important question really.

HEMMER: And the answer to that then is what when it comes to driving the motivation behind these attacks on American soldiers?

FATTAH: Well, I think there's this visceral fear that a lot of Iraqis have of what's going on. They feel left out of the system. They feel left out of a lot of what's going on in the halls of government. The halls of government are closed to them, and they don't really know where their country is headed. And I think that's a more salient issue today.

HEMMER: Yes, you say the average Iraqi does not hate the Americans; they just don't know where the Americans are taking them. That goes to your point that you just answered that.

FATTAH: Well, I would say that the average Iraqi doesn't hate Americans at all. He's very curious about Americans and doesn't know where the Americans are taking them. But I also think that the average Iraqis are afraid of the kind of mistakes that America will make in this occupation. HEMMER: Do you believe that some Iraqis are lying low, perhaps the majority are lying low, to await the fate of Saddam Hussein?

FATTAH: No doubt. I'm sure that there are a lot of loyalists of Saddam who are lying low and keeping quiet. You know, one of the problems that's happening is in this effort to de-Baathetize the country, we're sending the Baath loyalists underground, which I think is just as dangerous as having Saddam around, to be honest.

HEMMER: Yes. And when they talk about Saddam Hussein, what are the discussions these days regarding him?

FATTAH: Well, ultimately, it's a fear. It's a fear of the sense that Saddam and his men could take pot shots, could basically ruin the freedom that they now have.

HEMMER: Yes, and based on that freedom right now, what are you seeing in terms of improvements on a day-to-day basis for the Iraqi people?

FATTAH: Well, I think the improvements are really slow, really gradual. You do see more power. The security is slowly coming back, but there's still a long, long way to go. The average American wouldn't accept this life ever, really.

HEMMER: Yes. And when you talk to American soldiers, what's their attitude?

FATTAH: I think they're tired. They're hot. It's really hot here, as you can tell by my sweat. And it's -- they just want to go home, and you really can't blame them. They've been here for a long time and they're not really trained to police a nation, really.

HEMMER: Hassan Fattah, "The New Republic," live in Baghdad, thanks for talking with us.

FATTAH: Thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.