Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Today
A Bishop's Troubles
Aired June 17, 2003 - 11:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A Catholic bishop already accused of covering up sexual misconduct in the church faces more legal trouble. He is charged with leaving the scene of a fatal hit and run accident.
Our National Correspondent Frank Buckley joins us now live from Phoenix, Arizona. Frank what's the details on this story?
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Leon, Bishop Thomas O'Brien is out on bond after $45,000 bond was posted last night and we have a copy of the release order and it sets forth conditions under which this release is taking place.
A couple of the conditions, one, the bishop cannot leave the state of Arizona without seeking the permission of the court. Secondly, the bishop has to turn in his passport to the presiding judge of the criminal court system here in Phoenix.
Last night when Bishop O'Brien was released from custody, we can show you what it looked like there, a crush of reporters and photographers there to greet the bishop. There is intense interest locally here in Phoenix.
Bishop O'Brien now faces a charge of fleeing the scene of a fatal accident. It carries a potential sentence of nearly four years in prison if he's convicted. Police say the car that the bishop was driving on Saturday night at the time of the accident clearly shows evidence that it was involved in a collision.
The front windshield is shattered. Police say O'Brien acknowledged that he was driving on Saturday night at the time of the accident; in fact, the court documents suggest that O'Brien told police that he thought that he hit a dog or a cat or that someone threw a rock at the car and that's how it sustained the damage.
So far, no comment from Bishop O'Brien himself and a spokesman for the diocese says the diocese will offer complete cooperation with the investigation. Meanwhile the preliminary hearing, the next court date in this case, Leon, is set for June 25th.
HARRIS: All right, Frank, and just to refresh our memory here, what was it that initially led them to look for the bishop in the first place?
BUCKLEY: Well, the accident took place on Saturday night, a man Jim Reed was killed during this fatal hit and run accident, a 43-year- old man. One of the witnesses actually saw a car leaving the scene and followed the car that they said hit Mr. Reed. They took down the license plate number, came back and gave it to investigators.
Investigators traced that license back and found that it was registered to the Catholic diocese here in Phoenix. They found out that the bishop was the driver of that car. They got a message to him Sunday night via a priest, according to police, but the bishop did not contact them. So, on Monday, they went to the bishop and later they arrested him.
HARRIS: Got you, this has got to be something of another black eye for the archdiocese out there. They must be somewhat embarrassed to have the bishop back in the news because he was the news originally about the sex abuse scandal and his part in an alleged cover-up at least. What are you hearing about that?
BUCKLEY: Well, you know, it was just a couple of weeks ago that Bishop O'Brien acknowledged that as he has been the bishop here he knew that priests who had been accused of sex abuse were continuing to work in the diocese, were continuing to work with children and they were transferred in some cases to parishes where the supervisors weren't told, and certainly the parishioners were not told of these sex abuse allegations.
And so, that was acknowledged, and as part of that acknowledgement he had to sign an agreement with state authorities, with county authorities saying that there would be an appointment of a special counsel and others to monitor the sex abuse policy within the diocese here. He had to give up some of his powers. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were placed into accounts to help victims.
So, this arrest of the bishop takes place just two weeks after that public acknowledgement was made. So, you know, the local newspaper here, the banner headline this morning said "Stunned." People are, in fact, stunned about all of this.
HARRIS: Yes, it's a stunning story. Thanks, Frank, Frank Buckley reporting live for us out of Phoenix, Arizona. Frank, will continue to follow that story for us.
Moving on now we have another story to talk about that has been in the press for some time. Lawyers for bombing suspect Eric Rudolph waived a hearing set for today and he's not going to ask a judge to set bond in his case.
Rudolph is awaiting trial in the bombing of a Birmingham clinic that left an off-duty police officer dead and a nurse critically wounded. Bond was considered to be unlikely for Rudolph anyway. He was arrested in North Carolina after five years on the run you may recall.
Now, we turn to the developments, the latest developments in another high profile case, this one on the West Coast, the case of Scott Peterson who was charged with killing his wife Laci and their unborn son Conner.
Now, for these developments, let's turn to our CNN's Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin who is standing by in New York to explain all this for us. Jeff, as we see it in the headlines, the story is now it's a battle brewing in the courtroom between lawyers but not between Peterson's lawyers and the other lawyers. What's going on here?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the judge finally got fed up with all of us in the press and issued a gag order and said it's time for everyone involved in the case, that is witnesses and lawyers for the participants, to stop talking to the press.
But, lawyers being lawyers, they read his order carefully and the lawyer - the order did not cover lawyers for witnesses and one of the lawyers for one of the witnesses is Gloria Allred who represents Amber Frey who's the sort of other woman in the story and she's been speaking out. But, Scott Peterson's lawyer is very upset about that and he wants sanctions imposed on Gloria Allred for, he says, violating the gag order.
HARRIS: All right, so what do you make of this because it appears as though if a layman like myself were to read what the judge wrote there, the judge may not have said the witnesses' lawyers but he did say he didn't want to hear from the witnesses.
So, I would think that well that means that he doesn't want anyone talking about this case. What do you - is it a technicality here or did the judge make a mistake? What do you think?
TOOBIN: Three very expensive years in law school train you to read the order for what it says not for what it means and, you know, lawyers are particular about this sort of thing and I think Gloria Allred is right in the specifics but I think Mark Geragos, Scott Peterson's lawyer, may be right in general about a broader problem with the whole idea of a gag order. I mean I think, you know, you're either covered or you aren't.
HARRIS: Right.
TOOBIN: And she's a lawyer for a witness and she doesn't appear to be covered for me. But, Geragos does make a legitimate point when he says look my client is on trial for his life. He is facing a possible death sentence. No one is out there speaking for him.
There are people like Gloria Allred who think very bad things about Scott Peterson. They are saying essentially negative things about him and there is no one out there protecting my client with the jury pool. That's a problem with this gag order. It's a problem with all gag orders and I think that's a tussle we're going to be seeing as this case develops.
HARRIS: Very interesting. All right, tell us what exactly are the penalties if you do, if it is found that Gloria Allred did break the gag order, which you don't believe is going to be the case? But if she were to have been found to have broken the gag order what are the penalties for that?
TOOBIN: Well, the penalty is being held in contempt of court which is in itself a penalty. I mean no lawyer wants to be held in contempt of court. Theoretically or contempt of court you can be imprisoned. I don't think anything like that is likely to happen to anyone in this case, barring you know something truly flagrant and outrageous.
But, you know, lawyers I think do take seriously the threat of contempt but, you know, Gloria Allred is someone who is quite familiar to everyone who watches cable TV.
She's involved in a lot of high profile cases. She got involved in this case, I think it's safe to say, because she wanted to speak out and speak out for Amber Frey. That's what she's doing, and unless the judge specifically tells her not to, and the judge hasn't done so yet, she'd going to keep talking.
HARRIS: Yes, well Amber Frey may not have wanted to be involved in this case but she is and there's this issue of photos coming back up. Don't get too excited folks.
There's been news about some nude photos of Amber Frey being available somewhere but that's not what we're talking about here, photos that she took with Scott Peterson at a party or a date or something like that. Talk about those, Jeff, what is it you're hearing about that and why is that significant?
TOOBIN: Well, "Newsweek" had some good reporting about this this week. They said that remember the police tapped Scott Peterson's cell phone during this investigation and apparently one of the - several of the calls they picked up were calls from Scott Peterson to his lover, his ex-lover, whatever she was, Amber Frey saying please give me those photos back. Please, I'd like them back.
Clearly, the implication is he doesn't want those photos falling into the police hands, thus, you know, giving the police potentially a motive for murder, you know, proving that there was this - there was this extramarital relationship. He's trying to cover it up by getting the photos back.
That is apparently what's on those phone calls. You know, it is a long way from proving that he's guilty but it is evidence that would show he might have a motive to murder his wife.
HARRIS: Very interesting, very interesting, thanks Jeff, appreciate the advice as always.
TOOBIN: OK, Leon.
HARRIS: We'll check back and get some more of your analysis later on, Jeffrey Toobin in New York.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 17, 2003 - 11:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: A Catholic bishop already accused of covering up sexual misconduct in the church faces more legal trouble. He is charged with leaving the scene of a fatal hit and run accident.
Our National Correspondent Frank Buckley joins us now live from Phoenix, Arizona. Frank what's the details on this story?
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Leon, Bishop Thomas O'Brien is out on bond after $45,000 bond was posted last night and we have a copy of the release order and it sets forth conditions under which this release is taking place.
A couple of the conditions, one, the bishop cannot leave the state of Arizona without seeking the permission of the court. Secondly, the bishop has to turn in his passport to the presiding judge of the criminal court system here in Phoenix.
Last night when Bishop O'Brien was released from custody, we can show you what it looked like there, a crush of reporters and photographers there to greet the bishop. There is intense interest locally here in Phoenix.
Bishop O'Brien now faces a charge of fleeing the scene of a fatal accident. It carries a potential sentence of nearly four years in prison if he's convicted. Police say the car that the bishop was driving on Saturday night at the time of the accident clearly shows evidence that it was involved in a collision.
The front windshield is shattered. Police say O'Brien acknowledged that he was driving on Saturday night at the time of the accident; in fact, the court documents suggest that O'Brien told police that he thought that he hit a dog or a cat or that someone threw a rock at the car and that's how it sustained the damage.
So far, no comment from Bishop O'Brien himself and a spokesman for the diocese says the diocese will offer complete cooperation with the investigation. Meanwhile the preliminary hearing, the next court date in this case, Leon, is set for June 25th.
HARRIS: All right, Frank, and just to refresh our memory here, what was it that initially led them to look for the bishop in the first place?
BUCKLEY: Well, the accident took place on Saturday night, a man Jim Reed was killed during this fatal hit and run accident, a 43-year- old man. One of the witnesses actually saw a car leaving the scene and followed the car that they said hit Mr. Reed. They took down the license plate number, came back and gave it to investigators.
Investigators traced that license back and found that it was registered to the Catholic diocese here in Phoenix. They found out that the bishop was the driver of that car. They got a message to him Sunday night via a priest, according to police, but the bishop did not contact them. So, on Monday, they went to the bishop and later they arrested him.
HARRIS: Got you, this has got to be something of another black eye for the archdiocese out there. They must be somewhat embarrassed to have the bishop back in the news because he was the news originally about the sex abuse scandal and his part in an alleged cover-up at least. What are you hearing about that?
BUCKLEY: Well, you know, it was just a couple of weeks ago that Bishop O'Brien acknowledged that as he has been the bishop here he knew that priests who had been accused of sex abuse were continuing to work in the diocese, were continuing to work with children and they were transferred in some cases to parishes where the supervisors weren't told, and certainly the parishioners were not told of these sex abuse allegations.
And so, that was acknowledged, and as part of that acknowledgement he had to sign an agreement with state authorities, with county authorities saying that there would be an appointment of a special counsel and others to monitor the sex abuse policy within the diocese here. He had to give up some of his powers. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were placed into accounts to help victims.
So, this arrest of the bishop takes place just two weeks after that public acknowledgement was made. So, you know, the local newspaper here, the banner headline this morning said "Stunned." People are, in fact, stunned about all of this.
HARRIS: Yes, it's a stunning story. Thanks, Frank, Frank Buckley reporting live for us out of Phoenix, Arizona. Frank, will continue to follow that story for us.
Moving on now we have another story to talk about that has been in the press for some time. Lawyers for bombing suspect Eric Rudolph waived a hearing set for today and he's not going to ask a judge to set bond in his case.
Rudolph is awaiting trial in the bombing of a Birmingham clinic that left an off-duty police officer dead and a nurse critically wounded. Bond was considered to be unlikely for Rudolph anyway. He was arrested in North Carolina after five years on the run you may recall.
Now, we turn to the developments, the latest developments in another high profile case, this one on the West Coast, the case of Scott Peterson who was charged with killing his wife Laci and their unborn son Conner.
Now, for these developments, let's turn to our CNN's Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin who is standing by in New York to explain all this for us. Jeff, as we see it in the headlines, the story is now it's a battle brewing in the courtroom between lawyers but not between Peterson's lawyers and the other lawyers. What's going on here?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the judge finally got fed up with all of us in the press and issued a gag order and said it's time for everyone involved in the case, that is witnesses and lawyers for the participants, to stop talking to the press.
But, lawyers being lawyers, they read his order carefully and the lawyer - the order did not cover lawyers for witnesses and one of the lawyers for one of the witnesses is Gloria Allred who represents Amber Frey who's the sort of other woman in the story and she's been speaking out. But, Scott Peterson's lawyer is very upset about that and he wants sanctions imposed on Gloria Allred for, he says, violating the gag order.
HARRIS: All right, so what do you make of this because it appears as though if a layman like myself were to read what the judge wrote there, the judge may not have said the witnesses' lawyers but he did say he didn't want to hear from the witnesses.
So, I would think that well that means that he doesn't want anyone talking about this case. What do you - is it a technicality here or did the judge make a mistake? What do you think?
TOOBIN: Three very expensive years in law school train you to read the order for what it says not for what it means and, you know, lawyers are particular about this sort of thing and I think Gloria Allred is right in the specifics but I think Mark Geragos, Scott Peterson's lawyer, may be right in general about a broader problem with the whole idea of a gag order. I mean I think, you know, you're either covered or you aren't.
HARRIS: Right.
TOOBIN: And she's a lawyer for a witness and she doesn't appear to be covered for me. But, Geragos does make a legitimate point when he says look my client is on trial for his life. He is facing a possible death sentence. No one is out there speaking for him.
There are people like Gloria Allred who think very bad things about Scott Peterson. They are saying essentially negative things about him and there is no one out there protecting my client with the jury pool. That's a problem with this gag order. It's a problem with all gag orders and I think that's a tussle we're going to be seeing as this case develops.
HARRIS: Very interesting. All right, tell us what exactly are the penalties if you do, if it is found that Gloria Allred did break the gag order, which you don't believe is going to be the case? But if she were to have been found to have broken the gag order what are the penalties for that?
TOOBIN: Well, the penalty is being held in contempt of court which is in itself a penalty. I mean no lawyer wants to be held in contempt of court. Theoretically or contempt of court you can be imprisoned. I don't think anything like that is likely to happen to anyone in this case, barring you know something truly flagrant and outrageous.
But, you know, lawyers I think do take seriously the threat of contempt but, you know, Gloria Allred is someone who is quite familiar to everyone who watches cable TV.
She's involved in a lot of high profile cases. She got involved in this case, I think it's safe to say, because she wanted to speak out and speak out for Amber Frey. That's what she's doing, and unless the judge specifically tells her not to, and the judge hasn't done so yet, she'd going to keep talking.
HARRIS: Yes, well Amber Frey may not have wanted to be involved in this case but she is and there's this issue of photos coming back up. Don't get too excited folks.
There's been news about some nude photos of Amber Frey being available somewhere but that's not what we're talking about here, photos that she took with Scott Peterson at a party or a date or something like that. Talk about those, Jeff, what is it you're hearing about that and why is that significant?
TOOBIN: Well, "Newsweek" had some good reporting about this this week. They said that remember the police tapped Scott Peterson's cell phone during this investigation and apparently one of the - several of the calls they picked up were calls from Scott Peterson to his lover, his ex-lover, whatever she was, Amber Frey saying please give me those photos back. Please, I'd like them back.
Clearly, the implication is he doesn't want those photos falling into the police hands, thus, you know, giving the police potentially a motive for murder, you know, proving that there was this - there was this extramarital relationship. He's trying to cover it up by getting the photos back.
That is apparently what's on those phone calls. You know, it is a long way from proving that he's guilty but it is evidence that would show he might have a motive to murder his wife.
HARRIS: Very interesting, very interesting, thanks Jeff, appreciate the advice as always.
TOOBIN: OK, Leon.
HARRIS: We'll check back and get some more of your analysis later on, Jeffrey Toobin in New York.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
