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American Morning

Stalking Saddam Hussein

Aired June 19, 2003 - 07:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to find out more now about the capture of a high-ranking aide to Saddam Hussein and the prospect that this puts the U.S. perhaps a step closer to catching the former dictator. General Abid Hamid Mahmud al-Tikriti was the fourth most- wanted man in Iraq. Only Saddam and his two sons rank higher.
From Washington today, CNN analyst Ken Pollack of the Saban Center of the Brookings Institution is back with us here on AMERCAN MORNING.

Ken, good morning. Good to see you again there.

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thank you, Bill. Good to see you.

HEMMER: We call this man a personal or a presidential secretary. Our definition is much different than this man's. How critical was he to Saddam Hussein?

POLLACK: This is a very big fish, as has been described. I think that's a very good way to put it.

And you're also right, Bill, that while we use the term "personal secretary," that does not even begin to do him justice. In some ways, a better way to think of Abid is that he was more like Saddam Hussein's chief of staff. If Qusay, his second son, was his right hand, Abid was his left.

Abid was in charge of a lot of his security. He was Saddam's gatekeeper. He was the one who made the Iraqi regime function. When Saddam had orders to be transmitted, more often than not those orders went through Abid. And Abid was one of the few people, maybe only he and Qusay were the only two people in Iraq, other than Saddam, who had the ability to issue independent orders on Saddam's behalf.

HEMMER: A couple of facts in here that I think are quite interesting. One of Saddam's bodyguards also picked up in this raid, about 50 other members of what's believed to be his former security personnel. And also, this man was picked up in the town of Tikrit. What does that tell you?

POLLACK: Well, it is a very interesting development. What it indicates is that chances are, Saddam is still in Iraq. If Abid is still in Iraq, there is a very good chance that Saddam is still in Iraq. He may, in fact, be in Tikrit. This was always the expectation was that if Saddam fled -- and I have to say that I think most people didn't expect that Saddam would flee the U.S. invasion, that he'd go down in a blaze of glory, myself included -- but he did decide to do so. We'll find out later why exactly that was.

But it suggests that he fled up into northwestern Iraq which are the tribal areas of Iraq, the Sunni tribes who are most loyal to Saddam, the ones who would be most likely to be willing to hide him, give him shelter and also give him military support.

HEMMER: And what was this man's connection to WMD in Iraq?

POLLACK: Well, that's, in some ways, the $64,000 question. Abid was high enough in the Iraqi command structure that he almost certainly knew something about weapons of mass destruction. Chances are that he knew that the Iraqis had them, what they may have had, at least in broad terms. It's unclear how much beyond that Abid would know. Did he actually know where the materials were stored? Did he actually know who had what, where it was located, how it was being hidden, et cetera, et cetera?

It may have been that this information was compartmented. We know that Qusay was in charge of the weapons of mass destruction in a much more hands-on fashion. And it may have been that just as Saddam likes to play divide and conquer with just about everything, he played divide and conquer with Abid and Qusay, so that Abid may have known some of the more basic information of broader stuff, but he may not have known the specifics. U.S. interrogators are going to have to find that out in the weeks ahead.

HEMMER: And now we all wait to see, as you point out, whether or not No. 4 leads them to Nos. 3, 2 and 1 in Iraq. Thanks, Ken. Good to see you again. Ken Pollock in D.C.

POLLACK: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.






Aired June 19, 2003 - 07:06   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We want to find out more now about the capture of a high-ranking aide to Saddam Hussein and the prospect that this puts the U.S. perhaps a step closer to catching the former dictator. General Abid Hamid Mahmud al-Tikriti was the fourth most- wanted man in Iraq. Only Saddam and his two sons rank higher.
From Washington today, CNN analyst Ken Pollack of the Saban Center of the Brookings Institution is back with us here on AMERCAN MORNING.

Ken, good morning. Good to see you again there.

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thank you, Bill. Good to see you.

HEMMER: We call this man a personal or a presidential secretary. Our definition is much different than this man's. How critical was he to Saddam Hussein?

POLLACK: This is a very big fish, as has been described. I think that's a very good way to put it.

And you're also right, Bill, that while we use the term "personal secretary," that does not even begin to do him justice. In some ways, a better way to think of Abid is that he was more like Saddam Hussein's chief of staff. If Qusay, his second son, was his right hand, Abid was his left.

Abid was in charge of a lot of his security. He was Saddam's gatekeeper. He was the one who made the Iraqi regime function. When Saddam had orders to be transmitted, more often than not those orders went through Abid. And Abid was one of the few people, maybe only he and Qusay were the only two people in Iraq, other than Saddam, who had the ability to issue independent orders on Saddam's behalf.

HEMMER: A couple of facts in here that I think are quite interesting. One of Saddam's bodyguards also picked up in this raid, about 50 other members of what's believed to be his former security personnel. And also, this man was picked up in the town of Tikrit. What does that tell you?

POLLACK: Well, it is a very interesting development. What it indicates is that chances are, Saddam is still in Iraq. If Abid is still in Iraq, there is a very good chance that Saddam is still in Iraq. He may, in fact, be in Tikrit. This was always the expectation was that if Saddam fled -- and I have to say that I think most people didn't expect that Saddam would flee the U.S. invasion, that he'd go down in a blaze of glory, myself included -- but he did decide to do so. We'll find out later why exactly that was.

But it suggests that he fled up into northwestern Iraq which are the tribal areas of Iraq, the Sunni tribes who are most loyal to Saddam, the ones who would be most likely to be willing to hide him, give him shelter and also give him military support.

HEMMER: And what was this man's connection to WMD in Iraq?

POLLACK: Well, that's, in some ways, the $64,000 question. Abid was high enough in the Iraqi command structure that he almost certainly knew something about weapons of mass destruction. Chances are that he knew that the Iraqis had them, what they may have had, at least in broad terms. It's unclear how much beyond that Abid would know. Did he actually know where the materials were stored? Did he actually know who had what, where it was located, how it was being hidden, et cetera, et cetera?

It may have been that this information was compartmented. We know that Qusay was in charge of the weapons of mass destruction in a much more hands-on fashion. And it may have been that just as Saddam likes to play divide and conquer with just about everything, he played divide and conquer with Abid and Qusay, so that Abid may have known some of the more basic information of broader stuff, but he may not have known the specifics. U.S. interrogators are going to have to find that out in the weeks ahead.

HEMMER: And now we all wait to see, as you point out, whether or not No. 4 leads them to Nos. 3, 2 and 1 in Iraq. Thanks, Ken. Good to see you again. Ken Pollock in D.C.

POLLACK: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.