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CNN Live Today
Interview With Scott MacLeod
Aired June 20, 2003 - 11:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, to the still volatile situation in Iraq, two U.S. soldiers are injured in an attack today and it happened in the town of Fallujah considered a hotbed for Saddam Hussein loyalists. Witnesses say Islamic fighters fired rocket- propelled grenades at U.S. forces. A power station caught fire and a U.S. military vehicle was hit.
Joining us to talk about the situation in Iraq and the dangers the troops still face is Scott MacLeod of "Time" magazine. He is in Baghdad now, Scott, thanks for being here.
I want to talk to you if we could begin with the security situation there in Iraq. Is it as bad as what we are learning here in the United States?
SCOTT MACLEOD, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, it is bad. I mean the American forces are all over Iraq. They're all over Baghdad and now they're coming under fairly regular attack. It does seem a lot of these attacks are premeditated, organized attacks. Even if they're by small groups of people there does seem to be some increasing signs of organization.
I think it's still too early to get too alarmed by it, though, because when the forces came in here they didn't really occupy or crush the Saddam loyalists in the Saddam heartland, the Sunni triangle as they call it, around the hometown of Saddam, Tikrit.
And so, it was really expected that, you know, this kind of resistance would continue. I think the more worrying thing is that it's happening in the heart of Baghdad because they've really got to get Baghdad secured and under control.
But I think that these mopping up operations that they're now, the American forces are now carrying out in let's say central Iraq, this was expected from the beginning. The Saddam fighters there had never really been totally defeated.
COLLINS: The everyday conveniences that have been frustrating for the Iraqi people to say the least, what about power outages, are things improved on that front?
MACLEOD: Well, they're a lot worse than the last couple of days because there have been some attacks on some stations by these apparent guerrillas and just here in Baghdad we've seen many more hours of outages just in the last couple of days. It really is a headache for people. Iraqis have the impression that America can do anything. They came and got rid of Saddam Hussein, which was a miracle for them, and even ordinary Iraqis who didn't mind the invasion and were very happy to have Saddam go are getting agitated that America can't do something about normal day-to- day services like electricity.
And, in the long term, this is going to be a problem because America has to win hearts and minds to make this occupation and nation building effort successful. It has to basically be welcomed in this effort by the Iraqi people.
And, if they get the feeling that there is something wrong here, that the Americans really aren't helping them, this could sour public opinion and give some support, not to the Saddam guerrillas, I think these people won't find any support in the Iraq population at large, but it will encourage a kind of revolutionary atmosphere where more and more people want to see the Americans go.
COLLINS: Scott, let's go ahead and talk about the possibility now that Saddam Hussein is still alive and not only just alive but in Iraq. We have learned today here at CNN and also a report in "The New York Times" that two U.S. intelligence agencies have been monitoring these intercepted communications that have actually increased that suggest this, in fact, could be true. What is the feeling there?
MACLEOD: I think it's pretty likely. I mean I don't have any intelligence information that proves one way or the other that Saddam is alive. I don't think these other reports are saying that either, but there does seem to be some indication that Saddam loyalists are talking to each other in ways that suggest that Saddam is around and he needs to be protected.
I think that a good sign from the American point of view of those who are trying to capture Saddam is that his private secretary, Mr. Mahmud, was captured on Monday staying at a makeshift state house basically on the run, wearing pajamas. He had grown a beard and wasn't very recognizable from his old powerful days. This was perhaps the second most powerful man in Iraq and he's clearly on the run and he's captured now.
COLLINS: That's right and also we are learning, or at least we think we're learning, that he is now offering a little bit more information. We weren't so sure that that was going to happen, at least American officials were not sure that that was going to happen because of the other captures not much information had come out.
MACLEOD: Well, for me the interesting thing is that he was in Iraq. He was in Tikrit, which would be the obvious place that he would be if he was in Iraq, which does suggest that, you know, Saddam hasn't escaped the country with billions of dollars and is hiding in South America or something. It does suggest that Saddam isn't far behind.
COLLINS: All right, thanks so much for being with us, Scott MacLeod, from "Time" magazine appreciate your insight on this. I'm sure everyone will be watching to find out where Saddam is. Thanks so much, Scott.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 20, 2003 - 11:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, to the still volatile situation in Iraq, two U.S. soldiers are injured in an attack today and it happened in the town of Fallujah considered a hotbed for Saddam Hussein loyalists. Witnesses say Islamic fighters fired rocket- propelled grenades at U.S. forces. A power station caught fire and a U.S. military vehicle was hit.
Joining us to talk about the situation in Iraq and the dangers the troops still face is Scott MacLeod of "Time" magazine. He is in Baghdad now, Scott, thanks for being here.
I want to talk to you if we could begin with the security situation there in Iraq. Is it as bad as what we are learning here in the United States?
SCOTT MACLEOD, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, it is bad. I mean the American forces are all over Iraq. They're all over Baghdad and now they're coming under fairly regular attack. It does seem a lot of these attacks are premeditated, organized attacks. Even if they're by small groups of people there does seem to be some increasing signs of organization.
I think it's still too early to get too alarmed by it, though, because when the forces came in here they didn't really occupy or crush the Saddam loyalists in the Saddam heartland, the Sunni triangle as they call it, around the hometown of Saddam, Tikrit.
And so, it was really expected that, you know, this kind of resistance would continue. I think the more worrying thing is that it's happening in the heart of Baghdad because they've really got to get Baghdad secured and under control.
But I think that these mopping up operations that they're now, the American forces are now carrying out in let's say central Iraq, this was expected from the beginning. The Saddam fighters there had never really been totally defeated.
COLLINS: The everyday conveniences that have been frustrating for the Iraqi people to say the least, what about power outages, are things improved on that front?
MACLEOD: Well, they're a lot worse than the last couple of days because there have been some attacks on some stations by these apparent guerrillas and just here in Baghdad we've seen many more hours of outages just in the last couple of days. It really is a headache for people. Iraqis have the impression that America can do anything. They came and got rid of Saddam Hussein, which was a miracle for them, and even ordinary Iraqis who didn't mind the invasion and were very happy to have Saddam go are getting agitated that America can't do something about normal day-to- day services like electricity.
And, in the long term, this is going to be a problem because America has to win hearts and minds to make this occupation and nation building effort successful. It has to basically be welcomed in this effort by the Iraqi people.
And, if they get the feeling that there is something wrong here, that the Americans really aren't helping them, this could sour public opinion and give some support, not to the Saddam guerrillas, I think these people won't find any support in the Iraq population at large, but it will encourage a kind of revolutionary atmosphere where more and more people want to see the Americans go.
COLLINS: Scott, let's go ahead and talk about the possibility now that Saddam Hussein is still alive and not only just alive but in Iraq. We have learned today here at CNN and also a report in "The New York Times" that two U.S. intelligence agencies have been monitoring these intercepted communications that have actually increased that suggest this, in fact, could be true. What is the feeling there?
MACLEOD: I think it's pretty likely. I mean I don't have any intelligence information that proves one way or the other that Saddam is alive. I don't think these other reports are saying that either, but there does seem to be some indication that Saddam loyalists are talking to each other in ways that suggest that Saddam is around and he needs to be protected.
I think that a good sign from the American point of view of those who are trying to capture Saddam is that his private secretary, Mr. Mahmud, was captured on Monday staying at a makeshift state house basically on the run, wearing pajamas. He had grown a beard and wasn't very recognizable from his old powerful days. This was perhaps the second most powerful man in Iraq and he's clearly on the run and he's captured now.
COLLINS: That's right and also we are learning, or at least we think we're learning, that he is now offering a little bit more information. We weren't so sure that that was going to happen, at least American officials were not sure that that was going to happen because of the other captures not much information had come out.
MACLEOD: Well, for me the interesting thing is that he was in Iraq. He was in Tikrit, which would be the obvious place that he would be if he was in Iraq, which does suggest that, you know, Saddam hasn't escaped the country with billions of dollars and is hiding in South America or something. It does suggest that Saddam isn't far behind.
COLLINS: All right, thanks so much for being with us, Scott MacLeod, from "Time" magazine appreciate your insight on this. I'm sure everyone will be watching to find out where Saddam is. Thanks so much, Scott.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
