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CNN Live Saturday

Interview With Scott Appleby

Aired June 21, 2003 - 14:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: American Catholic bishops say they have made a monumental effort in dealing with sexually abusive priests. But they admit they is still a long road ahead. The issue has taken center stage the last few days at St. Louis at the bishops annual conference. And that meeting is drawing to a close today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BISHOP WILTON GREGORY, U.S. CONFERENCE OF BISHOPS: We realize that the real healing that is needed and is called for must take place on the local level. And I can assure you that the bishops of this country are committed as local pastors to accomplishing just that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And while the bishops point to progress, victims of sexually abusive priests still accuse church leaders of secrecy and cover-ups. With us now to talk more about the issues, Scott Appleby, a history professor at Notre Dame University. Good to see you.

SCOTT APPLEBY, HISTORY PROFESSOR: Hello.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, are you impressed by the progress that the leaders of the bishops conference have professed to have in the past year alone?

APPLEBY: I wouldn't say I'm impressed but I'm encouraged by where we are now.

The bishops need to do three things. They need to fully comply with the process that they set in place a year ago, which includes letting the office of children -- the protection of children and young people conduct its audit of all the dioceses in the country to make sure they are complying with the standards set up. That's one thing they have to do.

They also have to, as Bishop Gregory just indicated, work on the local level in their diocese to show that they are not forgetting the victims, that the human element is still very much in play, and then they have to pass what I call the mom test. That is, they have to reach out and preach and teach and communicate with local Catholics so that they will understand the meaning of this crisis, how we got into this mess. And I call it the mom test, because if it doesn't pass muster with my mom in St. Louis, who has been a devout Catholic 70 years, it's not going to pass muster with the laity. WHITFIELD: Well, speaking of your mom and perhaps a whole lot of moms out there, about this time last year during the conference in Dallas when it was also in the throes of the investigations just opening up, involving sexual abuse, there were an awful lot of congregants who said, I am not going back to that church.

In the past year, do you believe that the Catholic church has restored enough faith and that many of those people who left their churches are now returning?

APPLEBY: I think it's too soon to say that. This is a process that will take years. It's been a tremendously damaging crisis, not only for the victims, obviously, but also shaking the trust of many lay Catholics, not in Christ, not in God, but in the church itself.

WHITFIELD: But can the Catholic church afford for it to take years when they need people to be returning to these churches sooner rather than later?

APPLEBY: No, they should start now with the kind of open communication I referred to, the preaching, the teaching, the reaching out, which will begin the process. But it's not going to turn around overnight. And as Bishop Gregory said, the healing and the repentance that is necessary will take months. The process should begin now, though.

WHITFIELD: Even Pope John Paul II got a lot of flack from people who said, you know what, they didn't feel like he was taking a stern enough approach and encouraging the bishops conference enough to take a stronger stance on the issue.

In any way, do you see that the trust or the faith in Pope John Paul in any way, has that been restored?

APPLEBY: I think the Pope John Paul is such a popular pope among lay Catholics that he probably has risen above this in terms of his own popularity. There's still, though, a kind of, I think, dissatisfaction with the way the Vatican in general has failed to respond in a kind of vigorous leadership role to reassure Catholic faithful. The pope has never been a particularly strong supporter of independent authority for national conferences of bishops. I think he feels that's a threat in part to the centralized authority of the pope. But this bishop's conference needs as much open support as it can get from the pope.

WHITFIELD: And quickly, let's talk about a couple other things that have happened in the past year. Bernard Law has since stepped down, also stepping down just this past week, Frank Keating. How disruptive have these two moves, perhaps, been for the process, really?

APPLEBY: Well, the morale in the church is very low now, not only because those men stepped down, but because they had to, and many people thought Cardinal Law should have stepped down a year ago. But the general sense of malaise and crises in the churches is very deep. I think priests and many bishops are frustrated because they too want progress to be quick. They want to get beyond this. But unfortunately, it's a very complicated and complex situation, and it will take time.

WHITFIELD: Scott Appleby of Notre Dame, thanks very much.

APPLEBY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 21, 2003 - 14:16   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: American Catholic bishops say they have made a monumental effort in dealing with sexually abusive priests. But they admit they is still a long road ahead. The issue has taken center stage the last few days at St. Louis at the bishops annual conference. And that meeting is drawing to a close today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BISHOP WILTON GREGORY, U.S. CONFERENCE OF BISHOPS: We realize that the real healing that is needed and is called for must take place on the local level. And I can assure you that the bishops of this country are committed as local pastors to accomplishing just that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And while the bishops point to progress, victims of sexually abusive priests still accuse church leaders of secrecy and cover-ups. With us now to talk more about the issues, Scott Appleby, a history professor at Notre Dame University. Good to see you.

SCOTT APPLEBY, HISTORY PROFESSOR: Hello.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, are you impressed by the progress that the leaders of the bishops conference have professed to have in the past year alone?

APPLEBY: I wouldn't say I'm impressed but I'm encouraged by where we are now.

The bishops need to do three things. They need to fully comply with the process that they set in place a year ago, which includes letting the office of children -- the protection of children and young people conduct its audit of all the dioceses in the country to make sure they are complying with the standards set up. That's one thing they have to do.

They also have to, as Bishop Gregory just indicated, work on the local level in their diocese to show that they are not forgetting the victims, that the human element is still very much in play, and then they have to pass what I call the mom test. That is, they have to reach out and preach and teach and communicate with local Catholics so that they will understand the meaning of this crisis, how we got into this mess. And I call it the mom test, because if it doesn't pass muster with my mom in St. Louis, who has been a devout Catholic 70 years, it's not going to pass muster with the laity. WHITFIELD: Well, speaking of your mom and perhaps a whole lot of moms out there, about this time last year during the conference in Dallas when it was also in the throes of the investigations just opening up, involving sexual abuse, there were an awful lot of congregants who said, I am not going back to that church.

In the past year, do you believe that the Catholic church has restored enough faith and that many of those people who left their churches are now returning?

APPLEBY: I think it's too soon to say that. This is a process that will take years. It's been a tremendously damaging crisis, not only for the victims, obviously, but also shaking the trust of many lay Catholics, not in Christ, not in God, but in the church itself.

WHITFIELD: But can the Catholic church afford for it to take years when they need people to be returning to these churches sooner rather than later?

APPLEBY: No, they should start now with the kind of open communication I referred to, the preaching, the teaching, the reaching out, which will begin the process. But it's not going to turn around overnight. And as Bishop Gregory said, the healing and the repentance that is necessary will take months. The process should begin now, though.

WHITFIELD: Even Pope John Paul II got a lot of flack from people who said, you know what, they didn't feel like he was taking a stern enough approach and encouraging the bishops conference enough to take a stronger stance on the issue.

In any way, do you see that the trust or the faith in Pope John Paul in any way, has that been restored?

APPLEBY: I think the Pope John Paul is such a popular pope among lay Catholics that he probably has risen above this in terms of his own popularity. There's still, though, a kind of, I think, dissatisfaction with the way the Vatican in general has failed to respond in a kind of vigorous leadership role to reassure Catholic faithful. The pope has never been a particularly strong supporter of independent authority for national conferences of bishops. I think he feels that's a threat in part to the centralized authority of the pope. But this bishop's conference needs as much open support as it can get from the pope.

WHITFIELD: And quickly, let's talk about a couple other things that have happened in the past year. Bernard Law has since stepped down, also stepping down just this past week, Frank Keating. How disruptive have these two moves, perhaps, been for the process, really?

APPLEBY: Well, the morale in the church is very low now, not only because those men stepped down, but because they had to, and many people thought Cardinal Law should have stepped down a year ago. But the general sense of malaise and crises in the churches is very deep. I think priests and many bishops are frustrated because they too want progress to be quick. They want to get beyond this. But unfortunately, it's a very complicated and complex situation, and it will take time.

WHITFIELD: Scott Appleby of Notre Dame, thanks very much.

APPLEBY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com