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American Morning

Interview With Terrorism Analyst Eric Margolis

Aired June 23, 2003 - 09:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. authorities still studying a newly-released tape said to be from al Qaeda. That tape turned up over the weekend, shows a man with his face covered speaking Arabic. The speaker says Osama bin Laden's terror group carried out the deadly bombings this month in Saudi Arabia and going back to the case in Morocco.
Is the tape authentic, though? Terrorism analyst Eric Margolis, author of "War at the Top of the World" is our guest here on AMERICAN MORNING. You saw it, you listened to it. Good morning to you. What do you think? True or not?

ERIC MARGOLIS, TERRORISM ANALYST: I give it a 50/50 for authenticity. We've seen some fake tapes before. There some curious things on the tape. This man gives his name, which is unusual, which sounds like an Indonesian name even though he's speaking Arabic. He announces that Osama bin Laden is alive in Afghanistan. Holds up a sign saying it was recorded on the 14th of June to date it.

And then goes on to say very intriguing factor that al Qaeda was responsible for the Riyadh and Morocco bombings. Al Qaeda doesn't usually take overt claim for its actions.

And finally he links, he says a new alliance has been created between al Qaeda, Taliban and the forces of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghan warlord and leader, who I've known years, and that this is new anti-American alliance.

HEMMER: Want to get to that name is a second. Let's talk about it right now. You've met the man. What is the background on him?

MARGOLIS: Fascinating character, a Pushtan leader in southern Afghanistan. He was one of the seven original Mujahideen leaders who fought the Soviets. He was the No. 1 most effective fighter against the Soviets. He was largely supplied and armed and financed by the United States and by Saudi Arabia. He was our most effective proxy in Afghanistan.

According to him, he told me the U.S. tried to assassinate him in 1989. He went -- he fell out with Taliban, went to Iran, came back. The U.S. tried to assassinate him last year in a missile strike. He's now proclaimed jihad against American forces, says he going to liberate Afghanistan.

HEMMER: Well what do you -- are we starting to see the beginning of these groups emerging, kind of the son of al Qaeda, filling the void or perhaps even contributing to what was started by Osama bin Laden?

MARGOLIS: I think we're seeing a lot of like-minded groups who are not necessarily on the direct operational control of al Qaeda, which is very much underground and on the run, but who are quite capable of staging attacks on their own. Like, for example, the attacks in Bali and Indonesia. They're soul mates of al Qaeda, but it wasn't al Qaeda that was pulling the strings.

HEMMER: Why is it though that we've seen, based on history and what al Qaeda has done and not done, that they do not come out and publicly take credit for their action?

MARGOLIS: Well it's an interesting question. One reason is to confound the West so they really don't know who's doing that. And it's been an effective technique. It causes consternation greater than if they knew who it was. Secondly, they do it for security purposes.

And, third, they're trying to give the impression that it's not just al Qaeda, but it's groups around -- across the Muslim world that are fighting against the United States.

HEMMER: There's news crossing today from Iran, a couple different voices speaking. They appear to conflict with each other. One saying that al Qaeda members have been tracked down, identified in Iran. Others say no, that has not been the case.

What do we know about the level of cooperation that Iran has now offered when it comes to al Qaeda members perhaps taking refuge in that country?

MARGOLIS: My own understanding, Iran has handed over hundreds of al Qaeda suspects to the United States on the quiet. Iran and al Qaeda were always bitter enemies, as Iran was with Taliban in Afghanistan. So I don't think there's -- the Iranian government is officially hiding or sheltering al Qaeda people. However, comma, there are large sectors of eastern Iran in the desert and Baluchistan that borders Pakistan, which are no man's land. And there against the Baluchi tribes, are very tall and skinny people who look much like bin Laden, it's quite possible there's al Qaeda people having taking shelter there.

HEMMER: Quickly, if you're living in Iran, you're a member of al Qaeda, you want to penetrate the borders of Iraq and get your best shot at an American soldier?

MARGOLIS: Absolutely. It's a fertile, ideal targets and the easiest that they've had so far.

HEMMER: Eric Margolis, good to see you in person.

MARGOLIS: Nice to be back.

HEMMER: All right.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 23, 2003 - 09:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. authorities still studying a newly-released tape said to be from al Qaeda. That tape turned up over the weekend, shows a man with his face covered speaking Arabic. The speaker says Osama bin Laden's terror group carried out the deadly bombings this month in Saudi Arabia and going back to the case in Morocco.
Is the tape authentic, though? Terrorism analyst Eric Margolis, author of "War at the Top of the World" is our guest here on AMERICAN MORNING. You saw it, you listened to it. Good morning to you. What do you think? True or not?

ERIC MARGOLIS, TERRORISM ANALYST: I give it a 50/50 for authenticity. We've seen some fake tapes before. There some curious things on the tape. This man gives his name, which is unusual, which sounds like an Indonesian name even though he's speaking Arabic. He announces that Osama bin Laden is alive in Afghanistan. Holds up a sign saying it was recorded on the 14th of June to date it.

And then goes on to say very intriguing factor that al Qaeda was responsible for the Riyadh and Morocco bombings. Al Qaeda doesn't usually take overt claim for its actions.

And finally he links, he says a new alliance has been created between al Qaeda, Taliban and the forces of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghan warlord and leader, who I've known years, and that this is new anti-American alliance.

HEMMER: Want to get to that name is a second. Let's talk about it right now. You've met the man. What is the background on him?

MARGOLIS: Fascinating character, a Pushtan leader in southern Afghanistan. He was one of the seven original Mujahideen leaders who fought the Soviets. He was the No. 1 most effective fighter against the Soviets. He was largely supplied and armed and financed by the United States and by Saudi Arabia. He was our most effective proxy in Afghanistan.

According to him, he told me the U.S. tried to assassinate him in 1989. He went -- he fell out with Taliban, went to Iran, came back. The U.S. tried to assassinate him last year in a missile strike. He's now proclaimed jihad against American forces, says he going to liberate Afghanistan.

HEMMER: Well what do you -- are we starting to see the beginning of these groups emerging, kind of the son of al Qaeda, filling the void or perhaps even contributing to what was started by Osama bin Laden?

MARGOLIS: I think we're seeing a lot of like-minded groups who are not necessarily on the direct operational control of al Qaeda, which is very much underground and on the run, but who are quite capable of staging attacks on their own. Like, for example, the attacks in Bali and Indonesia. They're soul mates of al Qaeda, but it wasn't al Qaeda that was pulling the strings.

HEMMER: Why is it though that we've seen, based on history and what al Qaeda has done and not done, that they do not come out and publicly take credit for their action?

MARGOLIS: Well it's an interesting question. One reason is to confound the West so they really don't know who's doing that. And it's been an effective technique. It causes consternation greater than if they knew who it was. Secondly, they do it for security purposes.

And, third, they're trying to give the impression that it's not just al Qaeda, but it's groups around -- across the Muslim world that are fighting against the United States.

HEMMER: There's news crossing today from Iran, a couple different voices speaking. They appear to conflict with each other. One saying that al Qaeda members have been tracked down, identified in Iran. Others say no, that has not been the case.

What do we know about the level of cooperation that Iran has now offered when it comes to al Qaeda members perhaps taking refuge in that country?

MARGOLIS: My own understanding, Iran has handed over hundreds of al Qaeda suspects to the United States on the quiet. Iran and al Qaeda were always bitter enemies, as Iran was with Taliban in Afghanistan. So I don't think there's -- the Iranian government is officially hiding or sheltering al Qaeda people. However, comma, there are large sectors of eastern Iran in the desert and Baluchistan that borders Pakistan, which are no man's land. And there against the Baluchi tribes, are very tall and skinny people who look much like bin Laden, it's quite possible there's al Qaeda people having taking shelter there.

HEMMER: Quickly, if you're living in Iran, you're a member of al Qaeda, you want to penetrate the borders of Iraq and get your best shot at an American soldier?

MARGOLIS: Absolutely. It's a fertile, ideal targets and the easiest that they've had so far.

HEMMER: Eric Margolis, good to see you in person.

MARGOLIS: Nice to be back.

HEMMER: All right.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com