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CNN Live Today

Israeli Raids Undermine Abbas' Power, Respect; Interview With Professor Rob Sobhani

Aired June 25, 2003 - 10:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We are moving on to the Middle East and the crisis there. Israeli troops today killed two Hamas militants in a gun battle in the Gaza strip. It's the latest incident to jeopardize the chances of a Hamas-called temporary cease-fire.
CNN's Jerrold Kessel takes us to a point in limbo both on the map and in the lives of two people caught in the uncertainty of the times.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN DEPUTY JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): An Israeli checkpoint on the West Bank. A Palestinian bride waits for permission to cross with her husband-to-be to his home village.

Elsewhere on the West Bank, Israeli pressure on Hamas. More than 150 people detained during a major night sweep by the Israeli army. Those arrested, Israel says, either active in or linked to Hamas. Israeli commanders say the purpose of the arrests, to undermine the Hebron grouping of the radical Islamic organization responsible for many recent terror attacks in Israeli cities.

But one of the architects of the peace effort worries about diversions on the peace road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These actions very efficiently undercuts the authority of the new Palestinian Prime Minister Abu Mazen. And it illustrates how important it is now as fast as possible to hand over security responsibility to the security forces of the Palestinian Authority and to rebuild these forces so that they are robust in order to address the security problem.

KESSEL: Hamas has been under intense pressure to accept a "hudna" (ph), a temporary truce under which it would halt strikes against Israel. But are the arrests adding to the pressure on Hamas to accept a cease-fire? Or having the opposite affect, re-enforcing the Hamas position there will be no hudna until Israel guarantees no more attacks?

That would involve, in the first phase, Israel withdrawing from designated areas of Gaza and the West Bank, enabling Palestinian security forces to take control there.

And that would supposedly lead to the reduction of the number of checkpoints like this one. Here, after a wait, this time a happy ending of sorts. Even applause from an Israeli soldier as the bride goes to meet her in-laws. But, even with a hint of first steps down the peace road, a new Israeli-Palestinian honeymoon still seems far away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KESSEL: And to underscore that, the events of this day in the last few hours. Israeli police have intercepted what they say was a major bomb which could have caused many, many casualties, just near the West Bank border with Israel. Two Palestinians on their way to set off that bomb, perhaps a suicide bombing, were caught.

And that event intercepted, but down in Gaza, a clash between Hamas and Israeli troops there. Two Hamas members killed when they tried to attack those Israeli troops on duty in northern part of Gaza.

So this is the hunt, 1,000th day, Heidi. Exactly 1,000th day of this on going conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians, bitter and intense conflict. And if there are hopes that they will be going down the peace road soon, at the moment, they remain hopes -- Heidi.

COLLINS: That is an awfully long time. All right, Jerrold Kessell, thanks so much for the update on the situation there.

Let's go ahead and take a closer look now, if we may, at the Middle East peace process through the eyes of an expert. Rob Sobhani is an adjunct professor of government and international studies at Georgetown University. He is also a frequent traveler to the region and understands it very well. Thanks for joining us again, Rob. Nice to see you.

ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Good morning, Heidi.

COLLINS: Tell us, what do you think so far of the Middle East peace process. Especially in relation to Colin Powell and his feeling and what he has been able to accomplish so far?

SOBHANI: I think what Colin Powell has been able to accomplish is to give legitimacy to the new Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, because at this point Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian prime minister, needs as much support from the United States, visible support. And I think that's one of the major contributions that Secretary Powell has made is to elevate Mahmoud Abbas in the eyes of the American publicly, obviously. But more so in the eyes of the international community.

COLLINS: How long do you think it will be until there is actual peace in the region?

SOBHANI: I think, Heidi, maybe it's time that we start taking seriously suggestions by very senior members of the Congress, such as Senator Lugar and Mideast experts like Martin Endecore (ph) now talking about the possibility of introducing NATO troops into West Bank and Gaza, maybe American troops, maybe Turkish troops simply because it seem that the Palestinians are not able to provide Israel the security that Israel needs.

And, more importantly, it will event allow for the Palestinians to first-hand have an experience with American troops on the West Bank and Gaza without Israeli soldiers. So I think maybe we need to shift the dynamic a little here.

COLLINS: And do you think that that is possible for the Palestinians to actually protect those Jewish settlements?

SOBHANI: Well, there's no doubt that, as your report indicated, Hamas still continues to see Israeli citizens as targets. Hamas still sees the existence of Israel as an ethoma (ph). And therefore it's very important that Hamas be isolated.

And one way we can do this, Heidi, is to provide the new Palestinian prime minister with immediate financial assistance. If he can be given a financial boost, he can certainly begin to isolate Hamas and Hamas supporters.

COLLINS: I have to ask, though, Rob. What is the feeling about Mahmoud Abbas from the people in Palestine? I mean, some of the supporters obviously going toward Hamas from the -- we've talked about this before -- from some of the humanitarian efforts and the needs that have been filled by Hamas. What do the people think of him as a leader?

SOBHANI: Well unfortunately any time a Palestinian leader stands side by side to an Israeli leader like Mr. Sharon or the American President Bush, it distracts to a certain extent because within the Palestinian territories they are viewed as traitors to a certain extent.

And that's why, once again, it's very important that the Arab world give Mr. Abbas legitimacy, invite him to their capitals, give him the red carpet treatment. But more importantly give him a check so he can start winning those skeptics over. I think it's very important in this process that we boost Mahmoud Abbas him both politically, diplomatically and financially.

COLLINS: So aside from Hamas and the security control in Gaza, is there anything else? I mean, what else is it that's blocking this peace process?

SOBHANI: Well, one of the other fundamental issues that is blocking the peace process, of course, the countries that support and sponsor terrorism. Countries that sponsor and support Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah. Because without the outside funding from countries such as the government of Iran, it's very difficult for Hamas to survive and Hezbollah to carry out terrorist attacks. So...

COLLINS: Rob, that's right. And then how do you cut those funds off?

SOBHANI: Well that's where I think once again the United States, with our European allies, we need to put a lot of pressure on the government of Iran, for example, and tell them we will not tolerate their continued support of terrorism. Shimon Peres today had a very excellent article in the "Wall Street Journal" about this. We need to cut off those sources of funding.

COLLINS: All right, Rob Sobhani, thanks so much for being with us once again today. Adjunct professor of government and international studies coming to us from Georgetown University.

SOBHANI: Thank you, Heidi.

SOBHANI: Thanks so much, Rob.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





With Professor Rob Sobhani>


Aired June 25, 2003 - 10:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We are moving on to the Middle East and the crisis there. Israeli troops today killed two Hamas militants in a gun battle in the Gaza strip. It's the latest incident to jeopardize the chances of a Hamas-called temporary cease-fire.
CNN's Jerrold Kessel takes us to a point in limbo both on the map and in the lives of two people caught in the uncertainty of the times.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN DEPUTY JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): An Israeli checkpoint on the West Bank. A Palestinian bride waits for permission to cross with her husband-to-be to his home village.

Elsewhere on the West Bank, Israeli pressure on Hamas. More than 150 people detained during a major night sweep by the Israeli army. Those arrested, Israel says, either active in or linked to Hamas. Israeli commanders say the purpose of the arrests, to undermine the Hebron grouping of the radical Islamic organization responsible for many recent terror attacks in Israeli cities.

But one of the architects of the peace effort worries about diversions on the peace road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These actions very efficiently undercuts the authority of the new Palestinian Prime Minister Abu Mazen. And it illustrates how important it is now as fast as possible to hand over security responsibility to the security forces of the Palestinian Authority and to rebuild these forces so that they are robust in order to address the security problem.

KESSEL: Hamas has been under intense pressure to accept a "hudna" (ph), a temporary truce under which it would halt strikes against Israel. But are the arrests adding to the pressure on Hamas to accept a cease-fire? Or having the opposite affect, re-enforcing the Hamas position there will be no hudna until Israel guarantees no more attacks?

That would involve, in the first phase, Israel withdrawing from designated areas of Gaza and the West Bank, enabling Palestinian security forces to take control there.

And that would supposedly lead to the reduction of the number of checkpoints like this one. Here, after a wait, this time a happy ending of sorts. Even applause from an Israeli soldier as the bride goes to meet her in-laws. But, even with a hint of first steps down the peace road, a new Israeli-Palestinian honeymoon still seems far away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KESSEL: And to underscore that, the events of this day in the last few hours. Israeli police have intercepted what they say was a major bomb which could have caused many, many casualties, just near the West Bank border with Israel. Two Palestinians on their way to set off that bomb, perhaps a suicide bombing, were caught.

And that event intercepted, but down in Gaza, a clash between Hamas and Israeli troops there. Two Hamas members killed when they tried to attack those Israeli troops on duty in northern part of Gaza.

So this is the hunt, 1,000th day, Heidi. Exactly 1,000th day of this on going conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians, bitter and intense conflict. And if there are hopes that they will be going down the peace road soon, at the moment, they remain hopes -- Heidi.

COLLINS: That is an awfully long time. All right, Jerrold Kessell, thanks so much for the update on the situation there.

Let's go ahead and take a closer look now, if we may, at the Middle East peace process through the eyes of an expert. Rob Sobhani is an adjunct professor of government and international studies at Georgetown University. He is also a frequent traveler to the region and understands it very well. Thanks for joining us again, Rob. Nice to see you.

ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Good morning, Heidi.

COLLINS: Tell us, what do you think so far of the Middle East peace process. Especially in relation to Colin Powell and his feeling and what he has been able to accomplish so far?

SOBHANI: I think what Colin Powell has been able to accomplish is to give legitimacy to the new Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, because at this point Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian prime minister, needs as much support from the United States, visible support. And I think that's one of the major contributions that Secretary Powell has made is to elevate Mahmoud Abbas in the eyes of the American publicly, obviously. But more so in the eyes of the international community.

COLLINS: How long do you think it will be until there is actual peace in the region?

SOBHANI: I think, Heidi, maybe it's time that we start taking seriously suggestions by very senior members of the Congress, such as Senator Lugar and Mideast experts like Martin Endecore (ph) now talking about the possibility of introducing NATO troops into West Bank and Gaza, maybe American troops, maybe Turkish troops simply because it seem that the Palestinians are not able to provide Israel the security that Israel needs.

And, more importantly, it will event allow for the Palestinians to first-hand have an experience with American troops on the West Bank and Gaza without Israeli soldiers. So I think maybe we need to shift the dynamic a little here.

COLLINS: And do you think that that is possible for the Palestinians to actually protect those Jewish settlements?

SOBHANI: Well, there's no doubt that, as your report indicated, Hamas still continues to see Israeli citizens as targets. Hamas still sees the existence of Israel as an ethoma (ph). And therefore it's very important that Hamas be isolated.

And one way we can do this, Heidi, is to provide the new Palestinian prime minister with immediate financial assistance. If he can be given a financial boost, he can certainly begin to isolate Hamas and Hamas supporters.

COLLINS: I have to ask, though, Rob. What is the feeling about Mahmoud Abbas from the people in Palestine? I mean, some of the supporters obviously going toward Hamas from the -- we've talked about this before -- from some of the humanitarian efforts and the needs that have been filled by Hamas. What do the people think of him as a leader?

SOBHANI: Well unfortunately any time a Palestinian leader stands side by side to an Israeli leader like Mr. Sharon or the American President Bush, it distracts to a certain extent because within the Palestinian territories they are viewed as traitors to a certain extent.

And that's why, once again, it's very important that the Arab world give Mr. Abbas legitimacy, invite him to their capitals, give him the red carpet treatment. But more importantly give him a check so he can start winning those skeptics over. I think it's very important in this process that we boost Mahmoud Abbas him both politically, diplomatically and financially.

COLLINS: So aside from Hamas and the security control in Gaza, is there anything else? I mean, what else is it that's blocking this peace process?

SOBHANI: Well, one of the other fundamental issues that is blocking the peace process, of course, the countries that support and sponsor terrorism. Countries that sponsor and support Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah. Because without the outside funding from countries such as the government of Iran, it's very difficult for Hamas to survive and Hezbollah to carry out terrorist attacks. So...

COLLINS: Rob, that's right. And then how do you cut those funds off?

SOBHANI: Well that's where I think once again the United States, with our European allies, we need to put a lot of pressure on the government of Iran, for example, and tell them we will not tolerate their continued support of terrorism. Shimon Peres today had a very excellent article in the "Wall Street Journal" about this. We need to cut off those sources of funding.

COLLINS: All right, Rob Sobhani, thanks so much for being with us once again today. Adjunct professor of government and international studies coming to us from Georgetown University.

SOBHANI: Thank you, Heidi.

SOBHANI: Thanks so much, Rob.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





With Professor Rob Sobhani>