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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Bush, Blair Face Criticism Over War in Iraq; Jagger, Silver Square Off; D.A. to Decide on Charges Against Bryant by Tuesday

Aired July 10, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair are being hammered, hammered by their critics; at issue did they deliberately mislead the world about the threat from Saddam Hussein's regime?
Bianca Jagger and Ron Silver, they strongly disagree. They're standing by to join me live.

WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): It's Thursday, July 10, 2003. Hello from Washington. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting.

From Washington to Baghdad, troubling and deadly new fallout from the war in Iraq. The top U.S. military commander says Saddam Hussein loyalists are carrying out what he calls professional assassinations of American forces and, in his words, the war is not over.

Our Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson is joining us now live from Baghdad with more -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, two more soldiers killed today. One in Tikrit died when and RPG, rocket- propelled grenade, hit his patrol. Another soldier died when he was shot while driving in his convoy south of Baghdad.

General Sanchez, the commander of ground forces here saying that the troops are up against professional assassins who are stepping up their attacks, troops nevertheless trying to track down their attackers.

(CNN EXCLUSIVE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): U.S. troops line up to storm a house. A pre-dawn raid to capture a man suspected of killing U.S. troops. From a blacked out command post a call to helicopters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible) can you see any activity on the rooftops?

ROBERTSON: Military police monitor outside as the raid unfolds. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get him on the ground. Get him on the ground.

ROBERTSON: When we get in, two men, three women, and five children are being questioned. Dean (ph), the translator, tells them your brother is a gangster. He killed two Americans.

(AUDIO GAP) but when asked to describe their brother say he's not tall and not short and has no more hair.

As they are led away for further questioning, the women break down. Day just beginning to break and fearing a suspect may have escaped next door, troops enter the next house. Soldiers tense as the house holder leads them to his weapons, two automatic machine guns now confiscated. In the front room, the search goes on amidst the chaos, suffering.

"This is my son" she protests. "He was killed by Saddam."

Daylight and the operation winding down, a debrief from the captain in charge.

CAPT. SEAN KUESTER, U.S. ARMY: It looks like we may have been a couple of days late. Some of the suspects on the sheet that we were looking for were seen here two days ago. We think we've apprehended some of their relatives. We're going to bring them in for counterintelligence to ask them some questions.

ROBERTSON: Both now sitting under guard in a makeshift police wagon, analysis from the man leading the raid.

STAFF SGT. CHRISTOPHER BUSH, U.S. ARMY: I think it was a success. We got a lot of good information about the guy and information will help out maybe another squad another time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Without timely intelligence, coalition forces face an uphill battle trying to track down their attackers, something they are acutely aware of because they know that if they make mistakes on the ground that reflects badly with the community that they're trying to help there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Our Nic Robertson in Baghdad, thanks Nic very much.

And with the latest casualties, 217 American military personnel have now been killed in Iraq since the start of the war in March, 146 of the deaths were the result of what's officially described as hostile action. The other 71 are classified as non-hostile, and more than 1,000 U.S. troops have been injured, various forms of injuries, in both hostile and non-hostile action.

Congressional Democrats are becoming increasingly vocal in their criticism of the post-war situation in Iraq. One of them, Senator and presidential candidate John Kerry lambasted the president today for what he called lack of planning, lack of diplomacy, and a lack of strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's been days since the president was flown to an aircraft carrier to announce that hostilities in Iraq had ended. Now clearly it's time for the president to step forward and tell the truth that the war is continuing and so are the casualties.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president may be facing pressure over Iraq, but the situation is much worse for his staunchest ally in the war, the British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Our senior European political correspondent Robin Oakley has more from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: That Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he had existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons which could be activated within 45 minutes.

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN SR. EUROPEAN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Tony Blair pitched his whole case for war, not on regime change, but on the need to take out Saddam's weapons but none of those weapons has yet emerged and with some government officials now conceding it's unlikely they ever will be found, he's being accused of misleading parliament and people.

Even Mr. Blair seemed to have growing doubts, telling MPs Tuesday that he was confident weapons programs, rather than the weapons themselves, would be found.

A Downing Street spokesman rode back on that apparent admission Thursday saying Mr. Blair remained confident survey teams would find products as well as programs, but the man who resigned from his cabinet rather than back the war says Blair must now admit he was wrong.

ROBIN COOK, FMR. BRITISH FOREIGN SECY.: This is, after all, the most grave matter. Parliament was asked to vote for war on an assurance that weapons of mass destruction existed.

OAKLEY: Already one legislative committee has concluded the government's case for war was not proven. Now opposition leaders and some in Tony Blair's own party are redoubling demands for a full independent judicial inquiry.

(on camera): Mr. Blair has become engaged in a long, drawn out battle with the British Broadcasting Corporation over his case for war. His own Labor members of parliament have turned rebellious and his opinion poll ratings have taken a dive. Analysts say that if weapons aren't found soon in Iraq, things can only get worse. Robin Oakley, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Adding to the growing controversy here in the United States, a British report saying Saddam Hussein tried to buy uranium in Africa as part of the justification for the war. The president has cited that intelligence report in his State of the Union address. That report has since been proven false but administration officials say the controversy is being overblown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The president wasn't in any way trying to mislead. It was information that got into the speech. Whether it should or should not have been in the speech is something we can certainly discuss and debate but it wasn't a deliberate attempt on the part of the president to either mislead or exaggerate. That's just ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The secretary of state, by the way, is the guest tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE." That's at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific, here only on CNN.

Joining me now from New York to talk about the president's use of what has now clearly been described as faulty intelligence in that State of the Union address and more, two special guests, the human rights activist Bianca Jagger and the actor Ron Silver who's a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Ron, first to you, you were a big supporter of going to war, any second thoughts right now?

RON SILVER, ACTOR: No, none at all and I'll tell you why. There's a lot of talk about deception but I agree with the secretary that it's totally ridiculous. If the president was deceived or he had bad information so did UNSCOM, so did the 15 countries whose intelligence services told them to vote for Security Council Resolution 1441.

The debate was not about whether he had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to attain them or hide them, about his constantly lying. The debate was we all presumed that this is the case.

BLITZER: Let me bring in Bianca.

SILVER: The debate was what to do about it.

BLITZER: Bianca, go ahead.

BIANCA JAGGER, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Absolutely not. The debate was whether Iraq and Saddam Hussein represented an imminent threat to the national security of this country and Great Britain.

And, in fact, when they provided the information about the (AUDIO GAP) in Niger to the weapons inspector, to Mr. ElBaradei did reluctantly and they took six weeks before they gave it to him.

In fact, Mr. ElBaradei reported to the U.N. on March 7 that the information that they had about uranium in that African country was not only fraudulent but it was completely untrue.

BLITZER: All right.

JAGGER: And nonetheless since then the government in this country and in Great Britain has continued to use this information as true. Many members of Congress here in the United States voted on the war because of that.

BLITZER: Bianca.

JAGGER: Yes.

BLITZER: Are you saying that the president deliberately lied to the American public?

JAGGER: Well, what I want to say is that I believe so because if we go to the Web site of Congressman Henry Waxman, he wrote a letter to President Bush in March 27, I think if I'm not wrong, asking him questions about the uranium from Niger and questioning the validity and the truth of that information. Nonetheless, he wrote many letters since then on how come the president -- did the president doesn't read his letters from members of Congress?

BLITZER: All right, we'll bring back Ron. Go ahead, Ron.

SILVER: I find that offensive, number one, that you would believe sources coming from Iraq and other sources (unintelligible).

JAGGER: No, no, no. This is not from Iraq. I'm talking about Congressman Henry Waxman.

SILVER: Hold on. Hold on a second, Bianca. Hold on a second. Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. He used them on his own people. He used them on other countries and the last final U.N. report said he still had them and was lying. All the intelligence services believe that he had them.

JAGGER: No, no, no. Please, forgive me...

SILVER: Now, hold on.

JAGGER: Let's listen to what Mr. Blix said when he left his job and even before.

SILVER: Mr. Blix also declared them nuclear free and then in '95 he was told that he was lied to and he said oops, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. JAGGER: Mr. Blix believed that he has been manipulated that his information was misused, and in fact, if Mr. Blix was allowed to continue to do his job and so was Mr. ElBaradei, we probably wouldn't have a war.

SILVER: They had 12 years.

JAGGER: We wouldn't have American soldiers being killed today.

SILVER: Let us talk...

BLITZER: All right.

JAGGER: The president needs to answer the truth.

BLITZER: Go ahead, Ron.

SILVER: Let us talk about deception. The last time I was on this program with you, you said 500,000 would be the number of casualties.

JAGGER: I said...

SILVER: Two million people will be displaced. Now, I assumed you were not deliberately misleading us about the consequences.

JAGGER: I am sorry. I was quoting...

SILVER: I assumed you had bad information, is that correct?

JAGGER: Ron, forgive me. The U.N. issued a report where they said they were concerned that 500,000 could die in the war in Iraq. They talked about a terrible humanitarian catastrophe which is the truth.

SILVER: So, the U.N. information was faulty? It turned out to be incorrect.

JAGGER: The U.N. information was only saying...

SILVER: Things happen.

JAGGER: The U.N. was saying -- but we're talking about serious matters. We're talking about an issue of weapons of mass destruction...

SILVER: But, Bianca let me...

JAGGER: ...and nuclear weapons and the capacity for Iraq to be able to buy them.

BLITZER: All right, hold on one second. Hold on. Bianca, let me just ask you this fundamental question.

JAGGER: Yes. Sure.

BLITZER: Are the Iraqi people today and the world indeed, the region, better off now that Saddam Hussein's regime is out of power?

JAGGER: We all are glad to see Saddam Hussein gone. Are they better off? I don't know because the United States has not been able to establish law and order in the country and, in fact, going back to the truth and the issue of deceived, whether we were or not deceived and whether the U.S. Congress and parliament was deceived.

In Great Britain today, they are asking for the resignation of Prime Minister Blair and what I would like to see is an independent investigation here in Congress and in parliament to establish whether the president and the prime minister lied.

SILVER: Bianca, as you know, we don't have the parliamentary system here.

BIANCA: Yes, but we have congressional and congressional are asking for an investigation.

SILVER: Yes, may I jump in? There's a lot of politics involved now. There is a different type of risk assessment we need to do after 9/11. That is fairly obvious. When you buy a stock or you do anything else, you weigh the risks and this and that before you go and do something.

In a post-9/11 national security situation, we had to weigh the risks and in the national security situation you weigh intention and capability.

JAGGER: Yes.

SILVER: Everybody thought he had the capability and had. We knew what his intention was. The risk was too great.

JAGGER: Forgive me. Forgive me for saying something. What was used was that we used preemptive strike against Iraq. It was in contravention with international law.

SILVER: NO, that's not (unintelligible). That's not true.

JAGGER: And now we're not talking -- we're now not talking anymore about weapons of mass destruction. We're talking about programs of weapons of mass destruction.

SILVER: No.

JAGGER: And soon we will be talking about thinking about weapons of mass destruction and that will be enough to attack another country.

BLITZER: All right, Ron, go ahead. You have the last word.

SILVER: That's quite all right. I want to go back to the risk assessment. His intentions were very clear. In a post-9/11 world, you have to make sure that people that have those intentions never acquire the capability and that's what we needed to do. That is the president's responsibility, his fundamental responsibility to protect the safety and security of the American people and he's done just that.

JAGGER: And violate international law.

SILVER: I don't think so.

BLITZER: Let me just correct myself. Bianca, I gave Ron the first word. I'll give you the last word, go ahead and wrap up your final point.

JAGGER: My final point is that we need to know whether President Bush and Prime Minister Blair deceived the public and Congress and parliament. We need to have an independent inquiry in the U.S. Congress and in the U.K. parliament to establish whether they both lied and that's why I am concerned.

I feel that this war was illegal. It was unjust and it was wrong and now we are re-vindicated because we are seeing that they have not found weapons of mass destruction.

BLITZER: Bianca Jagger and Ron Silver please come back both of you. Thanks for joining us today.

JAGGER: Thanks so much for having us.

SILVER: Thanks a lot.

BLITZER: And here's your turn to weigh in on this story. Our web question of the day is this: "Did President Bush make an honest mistake in his State of the Union address, or did he deliberately mislead the American public about Iraq?" We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

You can vote. Go to cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd also love to hear directly from you. Send me your comments, your questions. I'll try to get some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

The fate of a basketball superstar still very much up in the air, right now, the allegation extremely serious, sexual assault, but still no charges. How long will Kobe Bryant have to wait before learning how Colorado authorities plan to proceed?

Also, an unarmed man shot in the back eight times by police, a closer look at the police chase that's tearing a community apart.

And, wild weather triple threat, look at this, heat, tornadoes, and flooding. We'll get to all of that.

First, today's news quiz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER (voice-over): On average, what's the hottest city in the United States, Yuma, Arizona; Fort Meyers, Florida; Palm Springs, California; Midland-Odessa, Texas, the answer coming up? (END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're continuing to get more and more details about the alleged incident that has NBA superstar Kobe Bryant in some hot water. Let's get the latest.

CNN's Brian Cabell is standing by in Vail, Colorado with more -- Brian.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, good afternoon.

Originally, the D.A. here was hoping to have a decision on the possible charges by tomorrow. Now, he says it will be Tuesday at the very earliest. Apparently, one of the possibilities that's holding things up is that they need analysis of the physical evidence.

That evidence right now is with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. In cases like this normally they would be looking at blood, hair, possibly pubic hair, possibly skin, fibers, that sort of thing.

And we know, according to a cab driver, about a day after this alleged incident that Bryant, along with his entourage and some deputy sheriff's officials, went to a hospital, presumably to give that evidence.

All of this was done very secretly in the middle of the night. This, or course, has been a long week of embarrassment for one of the NBA's brightest superstars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything that this victim has read, anything that she's seen on TV, any negatives she is absorbing them and she's starting to believe them about herself. She's wondering at this point, a victim is wondering why she should have even come forward, why she did this, what's going to happen to her and truly she's doubting herself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: Of course, that is a victim's advocate talking about the trials and tribulations of being a victim in this case. I believe we also have some sound from a defense attorney talking about the problems that Kobe Bryant faces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY POZNER, ATTORNEY: Kobe Bryant has taken a beating in the media for being investigated even though there's a presumption of innocence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he getting a break in any sense because of his celebrity? POZNER: I don't see him getting any breaks here. I don't think any of this has played better for him because of who he is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: As for the victim, we have her name but it is not being released. She is a 19-year-old girl, went to a local high school here. She was a cheerleader. She was in a singing group, apparently a very talented singer. According to one publication, she actually tried out for "American Idol."

We've tried to talk to her. We talked to her father who said talk to the D.A. and, as I said Wolf, all of this is now in the hands of the D.A. and we may have a decision on this whether to file charges or not next Tuesday -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll be standing by. Brian Cabell thanks very much in Vail, Colorado.

Pittsburgh Pirates player Randall Simon has been cited for disorderly conduct after this bizarre incident during a mascot race in Milwaukee. Watch it. Four people dressed as giant sausages were running past the Pirate's dugout last night when Simon swung his bat at one of them.

The woman in the Italian sausage costume fell to the ground, knocking down a woman dressed as a hot dog. Both were treated for scraped knees.

The baseball Commissioner Bud Selig issued a statement saying, and I'm quoting now: "The type of behavior exhibited by Mr. Simon is anathema to the family entertainment that we are trying to provide in our ballparks and is wholly unacceptable."

There's also a strange twist, a very strange twist in the killing of a California family. The man suspected of shooting to death his estranged wife, three children, and mother-in-law has now been released.

CNN's David Mattingly is in Bakersfield, California. He's joining us now live to explain what's going on -- David.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Bakersfield Police clearly stepping back today and rethinking what they're doing with this case after and up and down day yesterday in the investigation following the murders of his entire family.

Vincent Brothers turned himself in to authorities in Elizabeth City, North Carolina where he was reportedly visiting his mother. Bakersfield Police also had him arrested, but less than 12 hours later they let him go.

They say they changed their minds because of information relevant to the case that came in from the state of Ohio. They have investigators on their way to check out that information right now. In the meantime, Brothers remains the only suspect in this case in the murders of his wife, his mother-in-law, and their three small children, their bodies discovered in their home here in Bakersfield on Tuesday. All of them had been shot to death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. NEIL MAHAN, BAKERSFIELD POLICE: Whether or not folks in North Carolina or Bakersfield or anyone anywhere else is surprised, I can guarantee you we're frustrated. Clearly, we would like to be able to, you know, wrap this case up tomorrow. We have five people dead in our community but that's not going to be the case. We know that. Quite frankly, you know that too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Right now, police say what they want most is to talk to Brothers and he is not talking to them. He has an attorney and has so far refused to answer their questions -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, David Mattingly following this very, very bizarre killing, tragic killing. Thanks very much, David, for that report.

A motorist shot eight times, was it self defense or a major police mistake? We'll take a closer look at the shooting that has a town divided.

Also, barreling toward Cancun, Claudette turns her eye to a very popular vacation spot.

And, he was on that dangerous mission to Somalia, so why would Liberia be any different for U.S. troops? I'll ask the former U.S. Army Ranger Keni Thomas, that and much more, all that. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Our next story included some very disturbing video. It's a person being killed, in this case shot to death by police officers in Shreveport, Louisiana. The video was shot by cameras in the cruisers and we bring it to you now because of the explosive controversy it's triggered.

Here's CNN's Mike Brooks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What began as a routine police chase, a Cadillac running a red light, would end this night in sudden death. Video cameras in three police cars were rolling when the driver stopped.

Look, quick, what's in his hand? Police thought it was a gun and opened fire. Twenty-five-year-old Marquis Hudspeth (ph) fell dying, shot eight times all in the back. He was unarmed. Police found only a silver-colored cell phone. The local prosecutor ruled police fired in self defense.

PAUL CARMOUCHE, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, SHREVEPORT, LA: The officers started ducking as if he's trying to duck out of the line of fire from what he thinks is actually a pistol.

BROOKS: Others see it differently.

JAMES PANNELL, NAACP PRESIDENT, SHREVEPORT, LA: And once you turn your back away from me what was the reason for you to shoot over 20-some times walking behind this person?

BROOKS: Black ministers led a protest march. Others, mostly White, rallied to support the police.

PANNELL: It's basically torn the community apart.

BROOKS: Shreveport's population is divided almost 50/50 between Black and White, but on the police force Whites outnumber Blacks about 3-1. The new police chief wants better communication with the community.

CHIEF MIKE CAMPBELL, SHREVEPORT, LA POLICE: And, I think that it's very clear that there is a problem, there is a disconnect.

BROOKS: The FBI has begun its own civil rights investigation into the videotaped shooting. Both critics and city officials support that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We welcome it. I mean we invited them. We asked them to come in and take a look.

BROOKS: Let's take a look again at the police video, this time in slow motion, and listen to what police told investigators. Corporal Denver Ramsey:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I stuck my gun in his back and grabbed him at which time he jerked and turned and pointed the weapon at me.

BROOKS: Officer Stephen Hathorne (ph), coming from the left, thought he heard a shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as I heard a gun, I thought Ramsey was shot and I opened up fire and I fired until he hit the ground.

BROOKS: Ramsey saw Hathorne duck away from the man.

RAMSEY: He immediately turned and pointed the weapon at Officer Hathorne at which time I fired my weapon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they felt threatened and they did what they had to do.

BROOKS: If you look at another camera angle, you can see the first shots are fired as the driver begins to walk away.

BROOKS: If you look at another camera angle, you can see the first shots are fired as the driver begins to walk away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man was walking off. He wasn't a threat at that point.

BROOKS (on camera): The attorney for the two officers involved in the shooting say they are cooperating with the FBI investigation. The FBI won't say what they are looking at or what they found so far. It could be months before the FBI issues a report. But one thing seems certain, it won't please everyone.

Mike Brooks, CNN, Shreveport, Louisiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: U.S. troops on the ready to go into Liberia. But could it turn out to be another Somalia. We'll talk to a former army ranger who was in Somalia in that doomed mission to Africa.

Also, bad maintenance. Find out how the plane you are flying on could have been fixed up by a bad shop.

And a new witness in the Robert Blake murder case. The new witness names the son of another Hollywood star as the potential suspect. Details when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, live from the nation's capital. With correspondents from around the world. Here now is Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. U.S. troops potentially on the way to Liberia. Could it turn out to be another Somalia?

I'll ask a former U.S. Army ranger who was there.

First, the latest headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: Secretary of State Colin Powell, says the president will likely decide within days whether to send an American peacekeeping force to Liberia. Brent Sadler is in the capital, Monrovia, with more details.

Brent, tell us what's happening right now.

BRENT SADLER,CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf.

The U.S. Assessment team continues its endeavors on the ground here in Liberia, a third such straight day, out and about looking at the enormous numbers of displaced and various health problems, of which there are many in this capital itself, which is a city in ruins. Now U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, said it will be after this assessment team gets out of the region that a decision could come from the president very soon. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We will wait to see what our assessment team finds out during their deliberations over the weekend, and then I expect the president to make a decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: So Charles Taylor, the Liberian president, has said that he is prepared to quit office. He wants peacekeepers on the ground. West Africans states are saying they will provide about 1,000 troops. Mr. Taylor himself said in an interview with me a couple of days ago, that he recognizes that President Bush has a very, very difficult decision to make, given U.S. experiences in Somalia a decade ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES TAYLOR, PRESIDENT OF LIBERIA: The United States right now is faced, I guess, with the dilemma of committing troops to Liberia, having troops all around the world with the terrible situation in Afghanistan and Iraq, and then, again, facing an election year soon. The specter of an American boy coming to Liberia and getting hurt is on his mind, which is right. As president, he ought to think about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: Not only that in terms of possible casualties for any U.S. Peacekeeping mission here. President Bush also concerned about military overstretch, given missions in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Balkans -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brent Sadler in Monrovia. Brent, thanks very much.

The situations are very different. But for many, the possibility of U.S. troops in Africa brings to mind the disastrous 1993 mission in Somalia. At that time, as many you remember, 18 Americans died, 76 were injured. Many you will remember the movie the book "Black Hawk Down." F

Former Army Ranger Keni Thomas was there. He's joining us from Atlanta to talk about what possibly could number store in Liberia.

Keni, thanks for joining us.

Is Liberia, in your opinion, potentially another Somalia in waiting?

KENI THOMAS, FORMER ARMY RANGER: You know, I hope not, and at this point I certainly don't think so because, you know, we were in Somalia for a year and accomplished a great mission. They did help feed a starving nation. It wasn't until task force ranger arrived almost a year later that direct combat started happening. So I hope that we're a long way from that right now. But it is a potentially dangerous situation whenever you send anybody into these countries where there is problems. People walking around with weapons. There are people walking around with weapons, they want to use them. Any time you put Americans in that situation, they have to be cognizant that casualties air possibility.

BLITZER: You make a good point. The situation in Somalia and in Liberia very different. But when U.S. troops went, you point out as well, at Somalia, they were warmly received for the humanitarian mission, but only later did things fall apart and the disaster of Mogadishu occur. That potentially could happen in Monrovia as well.

THOMAS: Potentially it could. You know, the thing you really have to think about is if you are going to send boys in, if you are going to send our troops in, the big question is, is it worth losing American lives. Because I'm telling you if you send people into a country where people are walking around the streets with weapons, there are going to be American casualties. Because the littlest spark, someone is going to take that weapon and start firing it. The first person they are going to point it at is an American soldier. They aren't carrying them around because they look cool. They are carrying them around because they want to use them. So if you are going to send someone in make sure the cause is worth the risk.

BLITZER: Do the Army Rangers, the other special forces who might be going in, the peacekeeping forces, as they are described, do they enjoy getting involved in this kind of peacekeeping operation as opposed to combat and warfare?

THOMAS: I think enjoy is probably not the right word. But I think anybody who gets the call, whether it's a special operations unit or regular military, I think they are all very proud to go and serve. And I'm sure that when they get the call, they have faith in their leaders that it's an important enough reason that they are being called and put in harm's way. So they don't question the leadership or why they are there.

Whether or not you -- it's a tricky situation to be in, because with us, task force Ranger, we're very fortunate in that it was very clear what our mission was. We were after a deed. When you go in as a peacekeeping force, what exactly is your mission? That's where it gets very difficult for the soldiers and they have to stay very alert.

BLITZER: These are very two different countries, Somalia and Liberia, as you well know, even though they are both in Africa. But what specifically would the president, the commander in chief, have to tell troops to make it clear then that this is a vital national security interest mission?

THOMAS: I think the troops are so ready to go, and do their duty for their country that all he's got to do is tell them exactly what you said. This is vital to the United States of America. You are our best. We're sending you in. And they'd say hoah (ph) and they'd go do the job and they'd do it well and be very prepared for it.

BLITZER: Keni Thomas, thanks very much for joining us.

THOMAS: Yes, sir, thank you. BLITZER: And remember, we're bracing, the next few days, the secretary of state says that's possible the U.S. will make a decision, the president will make a decision whether to send hundreds, perhaps a few thousand troops into Liberia. CNN, of course, will be on top of this story.

Bad maintenance that could be putting your flight in danger. Find out why the government is now handing out some flunking grades.

And she just set a world record, paddling with her hands from Cuba to Key West. We'll talk to Elaine Patterson.

But first, a look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): The nuclear crisis on the Korean peninsula escalates. A North Korean envoy says his country is ready for both war and dialogue. He's insisting on direct talks with Washington.

The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency reports some progress in Iran. Mohammed ElBaradei says officials in Tehran have agreed to more discussion, but still are not ready for tighter nuclear inspections.

Also in Iran, the separate coffins of formerly conjoined twins arrived home from Singapore. The 29-year-old women died during surgery to separate them. The coffins were taken to Tehran's Grand Mosque, where hundreds of mourners came to pay respects.

Day four of the annual running of the bulls in Pamplona, Spain. Three people were gored, and at least 10 hurt, including an American teenager. The injuries aren't said to be life threatening.

American Lance Armstrong is second overall so far in the Tour de France, despite finishing 53rd in the fifth stage. His best rides are expected this weekend when the mountain stages begin.

And in southern Germany, an American man has started his attempt at a world's record for nonstop rollercoaster riding. Richard Rodriguez (ph) plans to go around the clock. Last year, he did 104 days on the same coaster, but rode only during the day.

And that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There was a close call at one of the world's busiest airports this week. A commuter jet was about to land at Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport Monday when a stray cargo truck crossed the runway. The pilot was ordered to abort the landing. A second plane had to do the same when the truck turned around. Officials say a system that alerts air traffic controllers about unauthorized vehicles on runways saved the day.

New government report could reinforce any fears of flying U.S. travelers may have. It found problems at many private repair facilities used by commercial airlines. CNN's Patty Davis is joining us now live from Reagan National Airport, outside Washington, with more -- Patty.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, under pressure to cut costs, many airlines are increasingly contracting out maintenance. A new government audit says the FAA has got to step up its oversight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS (voice-over): The crash of Air Midwest flight 5481 in January killed all 21 on board. Federal crash investigators are looking into whether maintenance contracted out to a private repair station played a role in the accident.

It's not just Air Midwest. The major airlines are increasingly farming out maintenance, rather than doing the work themselves. They spend nearly half their maintenance dollars on outsourcing.

But most private repair stations, both in the U.S. and overseas, flunked a recent government audit. The Transportation Department's inspector general found problems or mistakes, including using incorrect parts and equipment, went undetected at 86 percent of the private repair stations it audited. Safety experts say penalties for violations at outsource shops are so low there's little incentive to improve.

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Oftentimes the penalties are in the $1,000 to $2,500 range. They are not significant, and very seldom are repair stations who are repeat offenders put out of business.

DAVIS: The Federal Aviation Administration comes in for tough criticism for not paying enough attention to the repair stations. Instead, the inspector general says the FAA is focusing too much on airlines in-house maintenance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS: Now, the FAA agrees, it says, with a lot of what's in this report. But it defends itself saying that it has not been lax, its inspectors look at the record of crashes in the U.S. It is very, very low. Though -- it is also saying that it does have fixes in the works. It plans this fall already to increase standards at those private repair stations, standards and surveillance -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Patty, ever since the arrest of the shoe bomber, Richard Reid, all of us have been frustrated, annoyed at having to take off our shoes going through security checkpoints at airports. Now the TSA, the Transportation Security Administration, has some new guidelines?

DAVIS: Well, it has been a huge customer complaint. As you said, people having to take their shoes off. The policy has not been consistent. You go in one airport and everybody has to take their shoes off. You go in another and that's not the case.

What the TSA did today it said it's coming out with a consistent policy. And the policy is that you don't have to take your shoes off. You won't be required to do that.

They are going to suggest that you do it. If you say, I don't want to take my shoes off, you may have to undergo some secondary screening. That can be quite onerous at times. The TSA is saying, listen, just take your shoes off when you're going through screening. It will make it fast and quick. And just do it. It's better than being brought down by a bomb.

BLITZER: Just the other day, I was going through a checkpoint, a lot of people didn't want to take their shoes off because they didn't want to walk with their socks or barefoot through that security checkpoint. But we'll see what happens on this run. Patty Davis at Reagan National Airport outside Washington, thanks very much, Patty.

Wild weather, heat, tornadoes and flooding put a damper on the summer.

Plus -- long way home. We'll talk to a woman who just hand- paddled, yes, hand-paddled her way from Cuba to Key West and set a world record.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked, what's the hottest city in the United States? The answer, Yuma, Arizona. The average temperature there is 88 degrees. In July it averages 106.

And you can't quite fry eggs on the sidewalk of Phoenix, Arizona, but it's coming close. The high temperature there is expected to reach 116 degrees today. That would break the record for the date. The area is under a heat advisory for the second day in a row. Phoenix also remains under an ozone health watch.

Ominous clouds covered the sun in Wichita, Kansas. A storm front moved across the state last night, producing tornadoes and high winds. Several counties reported downed power lines and trees. The strong winds blew off a roof at Wichita Greyhound Park, damaging dozens of cars. No serious injuries are reported.

And in Decatur, Indiana, two sheriffs deputies rescuing teens from a flooded river, had to be rescued themselves. Their boat over turned when it hit tree limbs spilling the men into the current. The deputies and the teens clung to branches until a state police diver helped them into another boat.

Could you imagine lying flat on a fiberglass board and having to paddle your way across the ocean using only your arms? That's what several people just finished doing, including a Florida woman named Elaine Patterson who is part of the all-female team to make the trek from Havana to Key West. Elaine Patterson is joining us now live on the phone to talk about this. Elaine what makes someone want to do this?

ELAINE PATTERSON, HAND-PADDLED DISTANCE BETWEEN CUBA AND KEY WEST: Well, first of all, hello, Wolf, and, I think it's just -- we just wanted to show the women out there that -- what women are capable to do, you know. We are just as strong as any man.

BLITZER: How long did it take you to get from Cuba to Key West?

PATTERSON: It took us 25 hours and 40 minutes.

BLITZER: And you obviously had to stop along the way.

PATTERSON: We didn't stop at all, we just kept on going all night.

BLITZER: You went nonstop, paddling for 24 hours?

PATTERSON: Yes, there were four of us. We did an hour interval. You'd be on for an hour, off for three, on for an hour, off for three. Then we cut back when the seas got really rough to 45-minute intervals. When we hit the Key, about 15 miles out of Key West, we went down to 30 minutes.

BLITZER: What's the scariest part because there are sharks in those waters, too?

PATTERSON: Yes, there's a lot of them. But we didn't really see anything out there. It was so rough. The seas were up to 10 feet and the winds were blowing real hard. We were just trying to stay as close to the boat as we could so we wouldn't get lost out there. It was quite a trip.

PATTERSON: Elaine Patterson, thanks for joining us. You are one remarkable woman.

PATTERSON: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: Our hot Web question of the day is this, did President Bush make an honest mistake in his State of the Union Address or did he deliberately mislead the American public about Iraq? You can vote. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you are weighing in on our Web question of the day. Did President Bush make an honest mistake in his State of the Union Address or did he deliberately mislead the American public about Iraq? Look at this, 20 percent of you say honest mistake, 80 percent of you say he deliberately misled the public. More than 15,000 of you have already voted. As always, we remind you this is not a scientific poll.

Here's some instant feedback we're getting back from you. Trent from Virginia wrote this, "President Bush has been straightforward and honest with the public. It's my belief that if he misled the public, as in the case of the Niger dispute, it was unintentional. This is a crucial time for Americans to show their strength and patriotism by supporting President Bush."

Tony from Florida has a different view, "Whether the president misled us or he got bad information is not the issue, as former president Harry Truman said, the buck stops here."

That's all the time we have right now, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Silver Square Off; D.A. to Decide on Charges Against Bryant by Tuesday>


Aired July 10, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair are being hammered, hammered by their critics; at issue did they deliberately mislead the world about the threat from Saddam Hussein's regime?
Bianca Jagger and Ron Silver, they strongly disagree. They're standing by to join me live.

WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): It's Thursday, July 10, 2003. Hello from Washington. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting.

From Washington to Baghdad, troubling and deadly new fallout from the war in Iraq. The top U.S. military commander says Saddam Hussein loyalists are carrying out what he calls professional assassinations of American forces and, in his words, the war is not over.

Our Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson is joining us now live from Baghdad with more -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, two more soldiers killed today. One in Tikrit died when and RPG, rocket- propelled grenade, hit his patrol. Another soldier died when he was shot while driving in his convoy south of Baghdad.

General Sanchez, the commander of ground forces here saying that the troops are up against professional assassins who are stepping up their attacks, troops nevertheless trying to track down their attackers.

(CNN EXCLUSIVE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): U.S. troops line up to storm a house. A pre-dawn raid to capture a man suspected of killing U.S. troops. From a blacked out command post a call to helicopters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible) can you see any activity on the rooftops?

ROBERTSON: Military police monitor outside as the raid unfolds. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get him on the ground. Get him on the ground.

ROBERTSON: When we get in, two men, three women, and five children are being questioned. Dean (ph), the translator, tells them your brother is a gangster. He killed two Americans.

(AUDIO GAP) but when asked to describe their brother say he's not tall and not short and has no more hair.

As they are led away for further questioning, the women break down. Day just beginning to break and fearing a suspect may have escaped next door, troops enter the next house. Soldiers tense as the house holder leads them to his weapons, two automatic machine guns now confiscated. In the front room, the search goes on amidst the chaos, suffering.

"This is my son" she protests. "He was killed by Saddam."

Daylight and the operation winding down, a debrief from the captain in charge.

CAPT. SEAN KUESTER, U.S. ARMY: It looks like we may have been a couple of days late. Some of the suspects on the sheet that we were looking for were seen here two days ago. We think we've apprehended some of their relatives. We're going to bring them in for counterintelligence to ask them some questions.

ROBERTSON: Both now sitting under guard in a makeshift police wagon, analysis from the man leading the raid.

STAFF SGT. CHRISTOPHER BUSH, U.S. ARMY: I think it was a success. We got a lot of good information about the guy and information will help out maybe another squad another time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Without timely intelligence, coalition forces face an uphill battle trying to track down their attackers, something they are acutely aware of because they know that if they make mistakes on the ground that reflects badly with the community that they're trying to help there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Our Nic Robertson in Baghdad, thanks Nic very much.

And with the latest casualties, 217 American military personnel have now been killed in Iraq since the start of the war in March, 146 of the deaths were the result of what's officially described as hostile action. The other 71 are classified as non-hostile, and more than 1,000 U.S. troops have been injured, various forms of injuries, in both hostile and non-hostile action.

Congressional Democrats are becoming increasingly vocal in their criticism of the post-war situation in Iraq. One of them, Senator and presidential candidate John Kerry lambasted the president today for what he called lack of planning, lack of diplomacy, and a lack of strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's been days since the president was flown to an aircraft carrier to announce that hostilities in Iraq had ended. Now clearly it's time for the president to step forward and tell the truth that the war is continuing and so are the casualties.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president may be facing pressure over Iraq, but the situation is much worse for his staunchest ally in the war, the British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Our senior European political correspondent Robin Oakley has more from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: That Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he had existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons which could be activated within 45 minutes.

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN SR. EUROPEAN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Tony Blair pitched his whole case for war, not on regime change, but on the need to take out Saddam's weapons but none of those weapons has yet emerged and with some government officials now conceding it's unlikely they ever will be found, he's being accused of misleading parliament and people.

Even Mr. Blair seemed to have growing doubts, telling MPs Tuesday that he was confident weapons programs, rather than the weapons themselves, would be found.

A Downing Street spokesman rode back on that apparent admission Thursday saying Mr. Blair remained confident survey teams would find products as well as programs, but the man who resigned from his cabinet rather than back the war says Blair must now admit he was wrong.

ROBIN COOK, FMR. BRITISH FOREIGN SECY.: This is, after all, the most grave matter. Parliament was asked to vote for war on an assurance that weapons of mass destruction existed.

OAKLEY: Already one legislative committee has concluded the government's case for war was not proven. Now opposition leaders and some in Tony Blair's own party are redoubling demands for a full independent judicial inquiry.

(on camera): Mr. Blair has become engaged in a long, drawn out battle with the British Broadcasting Corporation over his case for war. His own Labor members of parliament have turned rebellious and his opinion poll ratings have taken a dive. Analysts say that if weapons aren't found soon in Iraq, things can only get worse. Robin Oakley, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Adding to the growing controversy here in the United States, a British report saying Saddam Hussein tried to buy uranium in Africa as part of the justification for the war. The president has cited that intelligence report in his State of the Union address. That report has since been proven false but administration officials say the controversy is being overblown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The president wasn't in any way trying to mislead. It was information that got into the speech. Whether it should or should not have been in the speech is something we can certainly discuss and debate but it wasn't a deliberate attempt on the part of the president to either mislead or exaggerate. That's just ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The secretary of state, by the way, is the guest tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE." That's at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific, here only on CNN.

Joining me now from New York to talk about the president's use of what has now clearly been described as faulty intelligence in that State of the Union address and more, two special guests, the human rights activist Bianca Jagger and the actor Ron Silver who's a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Ron, first to you, you were a big supporter of going to war, any second thoughts right now?

RON SILVER, ACTOR: No, none at all and I'll tell you why. There's a lot of talk about deception but I agree with the secretary that it's totally ridiculous. If the president was deceived or he had bad information so did UNSCOM, so did the 15 countries whose intelligence services told them to vote for Security Council Resolution 1441.

The debate was not about whether he had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to attain them or hide them, about his constantly lying. The debate was we all presumed that this is the case.

BLITZER: Let me bring in Bianca.

SILVER: The debate was what to do about it.

BLITZER: Bianca, go ahead.

BIANCA JAGGER, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Absolutely not. The debate was whether Iraq and Saddam Hussein represented an imminent threat to the national security of this country and Great Britain.

And, in fact, when they provided the information about the (AUDIO GAP) in Niger to the weapons inspector, to Mr. ElBaradei did reluctantly and they took six weeks before they gave it to him.

In fact, Mr. ElBaradei reported to the U.N. on March 7 that the information that they had about uranium in that African country was not only fraudulent but it was completely untrue.

BLITZER: All right.

JAGGER: And nonetheless since then the government in this country and in Great Britain has continued to use this information as true. Many members of Congress here in the United States voted on the war because of that.

BLITZER: Bianca.

JAGGER: Yes.

BLITZER: Are you saying that the president deliberately lied to the American public?

JAGGER: Well, what I want to say is that I believe so because if we go to the Web site of Congressman Henry Waxman, he wrote a letter to President Bush in March 27, I think if I'm not wrong, asking him questions about the uranium from Niger and questioning the validity and the truth of that information. Nonetheless, he wrote many letters since then on how come the president -- did the president doesn't read his letters from members of Congress?

BLITZER: All right, we'll bring back Ron. Go ahead, Ron.

SILVER: I find that offensive, number one, that you would believe sources coming from Iraq and other sources (unintelligible).

JAGGER: No, no, no. This is not from Iraq. I'm talking about Congressman Henry Waxman.

SILVER: Hold on. Hold on a second, Bianca. Hold on a second. Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. He used them on his own people. He used them on other countries and the last final U.N. report said he still had them and was lying. All the intelligence services believe that he had them.

JAGGER: No, no, no. Please, forgive me...

SILVER: Now, hold on.

JAGGER: Let's listen to what Mr. Blix said when he left his job and even before.

SILVER: Mr. Blix also declared them nuclear free and then in '95 he was told that he was lied to and he said oops, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. JAGGER: Mr. Blix believed that he has been manipulated that his information was misused, and in fact, if Mr. Blix was allowed to continue to do his job and so was Mr. ElBaradei, we probably wouldn't have a war.

SILVER: They had 12 years.

JAGGER: We wouldn't have American soldiers being killed today.

SILVER: Let us talk...

BLITZER: All right.

JAGGER: The president needs to answer the truth.

BLITZER: Go ahead, Ron.

SILVER: Let us talk about deception. The last time I was on this program with you, you said 500,000 would be the number of casualties.

JAGGER: I said...

SILVER: Two million people will be displaced. Now, I assumed you were not deliberately misleading us about the consequences.

JAGGER: I am sorry. I was quoting...

SILVER: I assumed you had bad information, is that correct?

JAGGER: Ron, forgive me. The U.N. issued a report where they said they were concerned that 500,000 could die in the war in Iraq. They talked about a terrible humanitarian catastrophe which is the truth.

SILVER: So, the U.N. information was faulty? It turned out to be incorrect.

JAGGER: The U.N. information was only saying...

SILVER: Things happen.

JAGGER: The U.N. was saying -- but we're talking about serious matters. We're talking about an issue of weapons of mass destruction...

SILVER: But, Bianca let me...

JAGGER: ...and nuclear weapons and the capacity for Iraq to be able to buy them.

BLITZER: All right, hold on one second. Hold on. Bianca, let me just ask you this fundamental question.

JAGGER: Yes. Sure.

BLITZER: Are the Iraqi people today and the world indeed, the region, better off now that Saddam Hussein's regime is out of power?

JAGGER: We all are glad to see Saddam Hussein gone. Are they better off? I don't know because the United States has not been able to establish law and order in the country and, in fact, going back to the truth and the issue of deceived, whether we were or not deceived and whether the U.S. Congress and parliament was deceived.

In Great Britain today, they are asking for the resignation of Prime Minister Blair and what I would like to see is an independent investigation here in Congress and in parliament to establish whether the president and the prime minister lied.

SILVER: Bianca, as you know, we don't have the parliamentary system here.

BIANCA: Yes, but we have congressional and congressional are asking for an investigation.

SILVER: Yes, may I jump in? There's a lot of politics involved now. There is a different type of risk assessment we need to do after 9/11. That is fairly obvious. When you buy a stock or you do anything else, you weigh the risks and this and that before you go and do something.

In a post-9/11 national security situation, we had to weigh the risks and in the national security situation you weigh intention and capability.

JAGGER: Yes.

SILVER: Everybody thought he had the capability and had. We knew what his intention was. The risk was too great.

JAGGER: Forgive me. Forgive me for saying something. What was used was that we used preemptive strike against Iraq. It was in contravention with international law.

SILVER: NO, that's not (unintelligible). That's not true.

JAGGER: And now we're not talking -- we're now not talking anymore about weapons of mass destruction. We're talking about programs of weapons of mass destruction.

SILVER: No.

JAGGER: And soon we will be talking about thinking about weapons of mass destruction and that will be enough to attack another country.

BLITZER: All right, Ron, go ahead. You have the last word.

SILVER: That's quite all right. I want to go back to the risk assessment. His intentions were very clear. In a post-9/11 world, you have to make sure that people that have those intentions never acquire the capability and that's what we needed to do. That is the president's responsibility, his fundamental responsibility to protect the safety and security of the American people and he's done just that.

JAGGER: And violate international law.

SILVER: I don't think so.

BLITZER: Let me just correct myself. Bianca, I gave Ron the first word. I'll give you the last word, go ahead and wrap up your final point.

JAGGER: My final point is that we need to know whether President Bush and Prime Minister Blair deceived the public and Congress and parliament. We need to have an independent inquiry in the U.S. Congress and in the U.K. parliament to establish whether they both lied and that's why I am concerned.

I feel that this war was illegal. It was unjust and it was wrong and now we are re-vindicated because we are seeing that they have not found weapons of mass destruction.

BLITZER: Bianca Jagger and Ron Silver please come back both of you. Thanks for joining us today.

JAGGER: Thanks so much for having us.

SILVER: Thanks a lot.

BLITZER: And here's your turn to weigh in on this story. Our web question of the day is this: "Did President Bush make an honest mistake in his State of the Union address, or did he deliberately mislead the American public about Iraq?" We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

You can vote. Go to cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd also love to hear directly from you. Send me your comments, your questions. I'll try to get some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

The fate of a basketball superstar still very much up in the air, right now, the allegation extremely serious, sexual assault, but still no charges. How long will Kobe Bryant have to wait before learning how Colorado authorities plan to proceed?

Also, an unarmed man shot in the back eight times by police, a closer look at the police chase that's tearing a community apart.

And, wild weather triple threat, look at this, heat, tornadoes, and flooding. We'll get to all of that.

First, today's news quiz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER (voice-over): On average, what's the hottest city in the United States, Yuma, Arizona; Fort Meyers, Florida; Palm Springs, California; Midland-Odessa, Texas, the answer coming up? (END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're continuing to get more and more details about the alleged incident that has NBA superstar Kobe Bryant in some hot water. Let's get the latest.

CNN's Brian Cabell is standing by in Vail, Colorado with more -- Brian.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, good afternoon.

Originally, the D.A. here was hoping to have a decision on the possible charges by tomorrow. Now, he says it will be Tuesday at the very earliest. Apparently, one of the possibilities that's holding things up is that they need analysis of the physical evidence.

That evidence right now is with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. In cases like this normally they would be looking at blood, hair, possibly pubic hair, possibly skin, fibers, that sort of thing.

And we know, according to a cab driver, about a day after this alleged incident that Bryant, along with his entourage and some deputy sheriff's officials, went to a hospital, presumably to give that evidence.

All of this was done very secretly in the middle of the night. This, or course, has been a long week of embarrassment for one of the NBA's brightest superstars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything that this victim has read, anything that she's seen on TV, any negatives she is absorbing them and she's starting to believe them about herself. She's wondering at this point, a victim is wondering why she should have even come forward, why she did this, what's going to happen to her and truly she's doubting herself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: Of course, that is a victim's advocate talking about the trials and tribulations of being a victim in this case. I believe we also have some sound from a defense attorney talking about the problems that Kobe Bryant faces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY POZNER, ATTORNEY: Kobe Bryant has taken a beating in the media for being investigated even though there's a presumption of innocence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he getting a break in any sense because of his celebrity? POZNER: I don't see him getting any breaks here. I don't think any of this has played better for him because of who he is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABELL: As for the victim, we have her name but it is not being released. She is a 19-year-old girl, went to a local high school here. She was a cheerleader. She was in a singing group, apparently a very talented singer. According to one publication, she actually tried out for "American Idol."

We've tried to talk to her. We talked to her father who said talk to the D.A. and, as I said Wolf, all of this is now in the hands of the D.A. and we may have a decision on this whether to file charges or not next Tuesday -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll be standing by. Brian Cabell thanks very much in Vail, Colorado.

Pittsburgh Pirates player Randall Simon has been cited for disorderly conduct after this bizarre incident during a mascot race in Milwaukee. Watch it. Four people dressed as giant sausages were running past the Pirate's dugout last night when Simon swung his bat at one of them.

The woman in the Italian sausage costume fell to the ground, knocking down a woman dressed as a hot dog. Both were treated for scraped knees.

The baseball Commissioner Bud Selig issued a statement saying, and I'm quoting now: "The type of behavior exhibited by Mr. Simon is anathema to the family entertainment that we are trying to provide in our ballparks and is wholly unacceptable."

There's also a strange twist, a very strange twist in the killing of a California family. The man suspected of shooting to death his estranged wife, three children, and mother-in-law has now been released.

CNN's David Mattingly is in Bakersfield, California. He's joining us now live to explain what's going on -- David.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Bakersfield Police clearly stepping back today and rethinking what they're doing with this case after and up and down day yesterday in the investigation following the murders of his entire family.

Vincent Brothers turned himself in to authorities in Elizabeth City, North Carolina where he was reportedly visiting his mother. Bakersfield Police also had him arrested, but less than 12 hours later they let him go.

They say they changed their minds because of information relevant to the case that came in from the state of Ohio. They have investigators on their way to check out that information right now. In the meantime, Brothers remains the only suspect in this case in the murders of his wife, his mother-in-law, and their three small children, their bodies discovered in their home here in Bakersfield on Tuesday. All of them had been shot to death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. NEIL MAHAN, BAKERSFIELD POLICE: Whether or not folks in North Carolina or Bakersfield or anyone anywhere else is surprised, I can guarantee you we're frustrated. Clearly, we would like to be able to, you know, wrap this case up tomorrow. We have five people dead in our community but that's not going to be the case. We know that. Quite frankly, you know that too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Right now, police say what they want most is to talk to Brothers and he is not talking to them. He has an attorney and has so far refused to answer their questions -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, David Mattingly following this very, very bizarre killing, tragic killing. Thanks very much, David, for that report.

A motorist shot eight times, was it self defense or a major police mistake? We'll take a closer look at the shooting that has a town divided.

Also, barreling toward Cancun, Claudette turns her eye to a very popular vacation spot.

And, he was on that dangerous mission to Somalia, so why would Liberia be any different for U.S. troops? I'll ask the former U.S. Army Ranger Keni Thomas, that and much more, all that. Stand by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Our next story included some very disturbing video. It's a person being killed, in this case shot to death by police officers in Shreveport, Louisiana. The video was shot by cameras in the cruisers and we bring it to you now because of the explosive controversy it's triggered.

Here's CNN's Mike Brooks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What began as a routine police chase, a Cadillac running a red light, would end this night in sudden death. Video cameras in three police cars were rolling when the driver stopped.

Look, quick, what's in his hand? Police thought it was a gun and opened fire. Twenty-five-year-old Marquis Hudspeth (ph) fell dying, shot eight times all in the back. He was unarmed. Police found only a silver-colored cell phone. The local prosecutor ruled police fired in self defense.

PAUL CARMOUCHE, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, SHREVEPORT, LA: The officers started ducking as if he's trying to duck out of the line of fire from what he thinks is actually a pistol.

BROOKS: Others see it differently.

JAMES PANNELL, NAACP PRESIDENT, SHREVEPORT, LA: And once you turn your back away from me what was the reason for you to shoot over 20-some times walking behind this person?

BROOKS: Black ministers led a protest march. Others, mostly White, rallied to support the police.

PANNELL: It's basically torn the community apart.

BROOKS: Shreveport's population is divided almost 50/50 between Black and White, but on the police force Whites outnumber Blacks about 3-1. The new police chief wants better communication with the community.

CHIEF MIKE CAMPBELL, SHREVEPORT, LA POLICE: And, I think that it's very clear that there is a problem, there is a disconnect.

BROOKS: The FBI has begun its own civil rights investigation into the videotaped shooting. Both critics and city officials support that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We welcome it. I mean we invited them. We asked them to come in and take a look.

BROOKS: Let's take a look again at the police video, this time in slow motion, and listen to what police told investigators. Corporal Denver Ramsey:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I stuck my gun in his back and grabbed him at which time he jerked and turned and pointed the weapon at me.

BROOKS: Officer Stephen Hathorne (ph), coming from the left, thought he heard a shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as I heard a gun, I thought Ramsey was shot and I opened up fire and I fired until he hit the ground.

BROOKS: Ramsey saw Hathorne duck away from the man.

RAMSEY: He immediately turned and pointed the weapon at Officer Hathorne at which time I fired my weapon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they felt threatened and they did what they had to do.

BROOKS: If you look at another camera angle, you can see the first shots are fired as the driver begins to walk away.

BROOKS: If you look at another camera angle, you can see the first shots are fired as the driver begins to walk away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man was walking off. He wasn't a threat at that point.

BROOKS (on camera): The attorney for the two officers involved in the shooting say they are cooperating with the FBI investigation. The FBI won't say what they are looking at or what they found so far. It could be months before the FBI issues a report. But one thing seems certain, it won't please everyone.

Mike Brooks, CNN, Shreveport, Louisiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: U.S. troops on the ready to go into Liberia. But could it turn out to be another Somalia. We'll talk to a former army ranger who was in Somalia in that doomed mission to Africa.

Also, bad maintenance. Find out how the plane you are flying on could have been fixed up by a bad shop.

And a new witness in the Robert Blake murder case. The new witness names the son of another Hollywood star as the potential suspect. Details when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, live from the nation's capital. With correspondents from around the world. Here now is Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. U.S. troops potentially on the way to Liberia. Could it turn out to be another Somalia?

I'll ask a former U.S. Army ranger who was there.

First, the latest headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: Secretary of State Colin Powell, says the president will likely decide within days whether to send an American peacekeeping force to Liberia. Brent Sadler is in the capital, Monrovia, with more details.

Brent, tell us what's happening right now.

BRENT SADLER,CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf.

The U.S. Assessment team continues its endeavors on the ground here in Liberia, a third such straight day, out and about looking at the enormous numbers of displaced and various health problems, of which there are many in this capital itself, which is a city in ruins. Now U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, said it will be after this assessment team gets out of the region that a decision could come from the president very soon. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We will wait to see what our assessment team finds out during their deliberations over the weekend, and then I expect the president to make a decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: So Charles Taylor, the Liberian president, has said that he is prepared to quit office. He wants peacekeepers on the ground. West Africans states are saying they will provide about 1,000 troops. Mr. Taylor himself said in an interview with me a couple of days ago, that he recognizes that President Bush has a very, very difficult decision to make, given U.S. experiences in Somalia a decade ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES TAYLOR, PRESIDENT OF LIBERIA: The United States right now is faced, I guess, with the dilemma of committing troops to Liberia, having troops all around the world with the terrible situation in Afghanistan and Iraq, and then, again, facing an election year soon. The specter of an American boy coming to Liberia and getting hurt is on his mind, which is right. As president, he ought to think about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: Not only that in terms of possible casualties for any U.S. Peacekeeping mission here. President Bush also concerned about military overstretch, given missions in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Balkans -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brent Sadler in Monrovia. Brent, thanks very much.

The situations are very different. But for many, the possibility of U.S. troops in Africa brings to mind the disastrous 1993 mission in Somalia. At that time, as many you remember, 18 Americans died, 76 were injured. Many you will remember the movie the book "Black Hawk Down." F

Former Army Ranger Keni Thomas was there. He's joining us from Atlanta to talk about what possibly could number store in Liberia.

Keni, thanks for joining us.

Is Liberia, in your opinion, potentially another Somalia in waiting?

KENI THOMAS, FORMER ARMY RANGER: You know, I hope not, and at this point I certainly don't think so because, you know, we were in Somalia for a year and accomplished a great mission. They did help feed a starving nation. It wasn't until task force ranger arrived almost a year later that direct combat started happening. So I hope that we're a long way from that right now. But it is a potentially dangerous situation whenever you send anybody into these countries where there is problems. People walking around with weapons. There are people walking around with weapons, they want to use them. Any time you put Americans in that situation, they have to be cognizant that casualties air possibility.

BLITZER: You make a good point. The situation in Somalia and in Liberia very different. But when U.S. troops went, you point out as well, at Somalia, they were warmly received for the humanitarian mission, but only later did things fall apart and the disaster of Mogadishu occur. That potentially could happen in Monrovia as well.

THOMAS: Potentially it could. You know, the thing you really have to think about is if you are going to send boys in, if you are going to send our troops in, the big question is, is it worth losing American lives. Because I'm telling you if you send people into a country where people are walking around the streets with weapons, there are going to be American casualties. Because the littlest spark, someone is going to take that weapon and start firing it. The first person they are going to point it at is an American soldier. They aren't carrying them around because they look cool. They are carrying them around because they want to use them. So if you are going to send someone in make sure the cause is worth the risk.

BLITZER: Do the Army Rangers, the other special forces who might be going in, the peacekeeping forces, as they are described, do they enjoy getting involved in this kind of peacekeeping operation as opposed to combat and warfare?

THOMAS: I think enjoy is probably not the right word. But I think anybody who gets the call, whether it's a special operations unit or regular military, I think they are all very proud to go and serve. And I'm sure that when they get the call, they have faith in their leaders that it's an important enough reason that they are being called and put in harm's way. So they don't question the leadership or why they are there.

Whether or not you -- it's a tricky situation to be in, because with us, task force Ranger, we're very fortunate in that it was very clear what our mission was. We were after a deed. When you go in as a peacekeeping force, what exactly is your mission? That's where it gets very difficult for the soldiers and they have to stay very alert.

BLITZER: These are very two different countries, Somalia and Liberia, as you well know, even though they are both in Africa. But what specifically would the president, the commander in chief, have to tell troops to make it clear then that this is a vital national security interest mission?

THOMAS: I think the troops are so ready to go, and do their duty for their country that all he's got to do is tell them exactly what you said. This is vital to the United States of America. You are our best. We're sending you in. And they'd say hoah (ph) and they'd go do the job and they'd do it well and be very prepared for it.

BLITZER: Keni Thomas, thanks very much for joining us.

THOMAS: Yes, sir, thank you. BLITZER: And remember, we're bracing, the next few days, the secretary of state says that's possible the U.S. will make a decision, the president will make a decision whether to send hundreds, perhaps a few thousand troops into Liberia. CNN, of course, will be on top of this story.

Bad maintenance that could be putting your flight in danger. Find out why the government is now handing out some flunking grades.

And she just set a world record, paddling with her hands from Cuba to Key West. We'll talk to Elaine Patterson.

But first, a look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): The nuclear crisis on the Korean peninsula escalates. A North Korean envoy says his country is ready for both war and dialogue. He's insisting on direct talks with Washington.

The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency reports some progress in Iran. Mohammed ElBaradei says officials in Tehran have agreed to more discussion, but still are not ready for tighter nuclear inspections.

Also in Iran, the separate coffins of formerly conjoined twins arrived home from Singapore. The 29-year-old women died during surgery to separate them. The coffins were taken to Tehran's Grand Mosque, where hundreds of mourners came to pay respects.

Day four of the annual running of the bulls in Pamplona, Spain. Three people were gored, and at least 10 hurt, including an American teenager. The injuries aren't said to be life threatening.

American Lance Armstrong is second overall so far in the Tour de France, despite finishing 53rd in the fifth stage. His best rides are expected this weekend when the mountain stages begin.

And in southern Germany, an American man has started his attempt at a world's record for nonstop rollercoaster riding. Richard Rodriguez (ph) plans to go around the clock. Last year, he did 104 days on the same coaster, but rode only during the day.

And that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There was a close call at one of the world's busiest airports this week. A commuter jet was about to land at Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport Monday when a stray cargo truck crossed the runway. The pilot was ordered to abort the landing. A second plane had to do the same when the truck turned around. Officials say a system that alerts air traffic controllers about unauthorized vehicles on runways saved the day.

New government report could reinforce any fears of flying U.S. travelers may have. It found problems at many private repair facilities used by commercial airlines. CNN's Patty Davis is joining us now live from Reagan National Airport, outside Washington, with more -- Patty.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, under pressure to cut costs, many airlines are increasingly contracting out maintenance. A new government audit says the FAA has got to step up its oversight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS (voice-over): The crash of Air Midwest flight 5481 in January killed all 21 on board. Federal crash investigators are looking into whether maintenance contracted out to a private repair station played a role in the accident.

It's not just Air Midwest. The major airlines are increasingly farming out maintenance, rather than doing the work themselves. They spend nearly half their maintenance dollars on outsourcing.

But most private repair stations, both in the U.S. and overseas, flunked a recent government audit. The Transportation Department's inspector general found problems or mistakes, including using incorrect parts and equipment, went undetected at 86 percent of the private repair stations it audited. Safety experts say penalties for violations at outsource shops are so low there's little incentive to improve.

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Oftentimes the penalties are in the $1,000 to $2,500 range. They are not significant, and very seldom are repair stations who are repeat offenders put out of business.

DAVIS: The Federal Aviation Administration comes in for tough criticism for not paying enough attention to the repair stations. Instead, the inspector general says the FAA is focusing too much on airlines in-house maintenance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS: Now, the FAA agrees, it says, with a lot of what's in this report. But it defends itself saying that it has not been lax, its inspectors look at the record of crashes in the U.S. It is very, very low. Though -- it is also saying that it does have fixes in the works. It plans this fall already to increase standards at those private repair stations, standards and surveillance -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Patty, ever since the arrest of the shoe bomber, Richard Reid, all of us have been frustrated, annoyed at having to take off our shoes going through security checkpoints at airports. Now the TSA, the Transportation Security Administration, has some new guidelines?

DAVIS: Well, it has been a huge customer complaint. As you said, people having to take their shoes off. The policy has not been consistent. You go in one airport and everybody has to take their shoes off. You go in another and that's not the case.

What the TSA did today it said it's coming out with a consistent policy. And the policy is that you don't have to take your shoes off. You won't be required to do that.

They are going to suggest that you do it. If you say, I don't want to take my shoes off, you may have to undergo some secondary screening. That can be quite onerous at times. The TSA is saying, listen, just take your shoes off when you're going through screening. It will make it fast and quick. And just do it. It's better than being brought down by a bomb.

BLITZER: Just the other day, I was going through a checkpoint, a lot of people didn't want to take their shoes off because they didn't want to walk with their socks or barefoot through that security checkpoint. But we'll see what happens on this run. Patty Davis at Reagan National Airport outside Washington, thanks very much, Patty.

Wild weather, heat, tornadoes and flooding put a damper on the summer.

Plus -- long way home. We'll talk to a woman who just hand- paddled, yes, hand-paddled her way from Cuba to Key West and set a world record.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked, what's the hottest city in the United States? The answer, Yuma, Arizona. The average temperature there is 88 degrees. In July it averages 106.

And you can't quite fry eggs on the sidewalk of Phoenix, Arizona, but it's coming close. The high temperature there is expected to reach 116 degrees today. That would break the record for the date. The area is under a heat advisory for the second day in a row. Phoenix also remains under an ozone health watch.

Ominous clouds covered the sun in Wichita, Kansas. A storm front moved across the state last night, producing tornadoes and high winds. Several counties reported downed power lines and trees. The strong winds blew off a roof at Wichita Greyhound Park, damaging dozens of cars. No serious injuries are reported.

And in Decatur, Indiana, two sheriffs deputies rescuing teens from a flooded river, had to be rescued themselves. Their boat over turned when it hit tree limbs spilling the men into the current. The deputies and the teens clung to branches until a state police diver helped them into another boat.

Could you imagine lying flat on a fiberglass board and having to paddle your way across the ocean using only your arms? That's what several people just finished doing, including a Florida woman named Elaine Patterson who is part of the all-female team to make the trek from Havana to Key West. Elaine Patterson is joining us now live on the phone to talk about this. Elaine what makes someone want to do this?

ELAINE PATTERSON, HAND-PADDLED DISTANCE BETWEEN CUBA AND KEY WEST: Well, first of all, hello, Wolf, and, I think it's just -- we just wanted to show the women out there that -- what women are capable to do, you know. We are just as strong as any man.

BLITZER: How long did it take you to get from Cuba to Key West?

PATTERSON: It took us 25 hours and 40 minutes.

BLITZER: And you obviously had to stop along the way.

PATTERSON: We didn't stop at all, we just kept on going all night.

BLITZER: You went nonstop, paddling for 24 hours?

PATTERSON: Yes, there were four of us. We did an hour interval. You'd be on for an hour, off for three, on for an hour, off for three. Then we cut back when the seas got really rough to 45-minute intervals. When we hit the Key, about 15 miles out of Key West, we went down to 30 minutes.

BLITZER: What's the scariest part because there are sharks in those waters, too?

PATTERSON: Yes, there's a lot of them. But we didn't really see anything out there. It was so rough. The seas were up to 10 feet and the winds were blowing real hard. We were just trying to stay as close to the boat as we could so we wouldn't get lost out there. It was quite a trip.

PATTERSON: Elaine Patterson, thanks for joining us. You are one remarkable woman.

PATTERSON: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: Our hot Web question of the day is this, did President Bush make an honest mistake in his State of the Union Address or did he deliberately mislead the American public about Iraq? You can vote. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you are weighing in on our Web question of the day. Did President Bush make an honest mistake in his State of the Union Address or did he deliberately mislead the American public about Iraq? Look at this, 20 percent of you say honest mistake, 80 percent of you say he deliberately misled the public. More than 15,000 of you have already voted. As always, we remind you this is not a scientific poll.

Here's some instant feedback we're getting back from you. Trent from Virginia wrote this, "President Bush has been straightforward and honest with the public. It's my belief that if he misled the public, as in the case of the Niger dispute, it was unintentional. This is a crucial time for Americans to show their strength and patriotism by supporting President Bush."

Tony from Florida has a different view, "Whether the president misled us or he got bad information is not the issue, as former president Harry Truman said, the buck stops here."

That's all the time we have right now, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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