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CNN Sunday Morning
Attorneys at Law
Aired July 13, 2003 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST: I'm Michael Smerconish with Court TV's Lisa Bloom and guest host Kim Keenan. Welcome to ATTORNEYS AT LAW.
KIM KEENAN, GUEST HOST: Robert Blake's attorneys want to drag another famous name into his murder case. We'll examine the latest twists.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: But lets begin with "The Big Case."
A squeaky clean NBA star is accused of sexual misconduct. Los Angeles Lakers basketball player Kobe Bryant is back in California, free on $25,000 bail, after a woman accused him of sexual misconduct during an encounter in a hotel room in Colorado.
Here's the catch: Prosecutors have not yet decided if they will file charges against the NBA star. District Attorney Mark Hurlbert explains.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK HURLBERT, EAGLE, COLORADO, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It's a very serious allegation, and we want to make sure that we are thorough and we want to make sure that we're complete. And we are reviewing the police reports, we are reviewing the evidence, and we are seeing if any more investigation needs to be done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Bryant was staying at the lodge and spa at Cordillera while having knee surgery at a nearby sports clinic. Bryant's attorney says he is innocent and expects to be exonerated.
Joining us to discuss "The Big Case," Colorado criminal-defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt.
Welcome, Jeralyn.
JERALYN MERRITT, CRIMINAL-DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi. How are you?
SMERCONISH: We're great.
Hey, Jeralyn, I don't understand maybe the way things get done in Colorado. On one hand, you have the sheriff who goes out and arrests Kobe Bryant. Now the prosecutors seem to be saying, well, not so fast. Is there a disconnect between the two? MERRITT: Absolutely. And that's not the normal procedure in Colorado. Usually in Colorado, the police will prepare a report, submit it to the district attorney. He looks at the facts and decides what law the person may have broke, and, as you heard Mr. Hurlbert, there may have not been -- be any law he's broken in this case.
BLOOM: Kim, let me ask you a question because I know you're a former president of a rape crisis center. It strikes me that this victim so far has done everything right. She immediately reported the crime. She went to a hospital and had medical tests done. She hasn't sold her story. She hasn't talked to the press. She hasn't filed a civil case. So far so good?
KEENAN: So far so good, but she can't be feeling really good about this process. Here she's done everything right, and the prosecutor is saying he may be charged with felony sexual assault, he may be charged with something else, he might not be charged with something at all. She's got to be feeling like, oh, my God, I put myself on the line, and look what's going on here.
BLOOM: Well, Jeralyn, let me ask you a question. Isn't the D.A. just proceeding with all deliberate speed? Isn't he taking appropriate steps probably to review the DNA evidence that we know Kobe Bryant submitted to, to look at all of the test results before he reaches a charging decision?
MERRITT: Lisa, that's exactly what he's doing, and that's what he should be doing, and this D.A. has done this before.
Last year in his county, there was a skiing fatality, and, while the guy stayed in jail for four days, he reviewed all of the evidence, and then he said I'm not filing, there's no case.
KEENAN: But, Jeralyn, I mean when we talk about a disconnect, this is way off the page. I mean the sheriff is saying, hey, I've got probable cause, I'm going to file this immediately. He jumps over the D.A. and files this. I mean what can he be thinking about? How can it be so different when the prosecutor gets the same information?
MERRITT: I don't understand why the sheriff did what he did, and I bet, if he had to do it again, he would do it differently. He smeared this guy's reputation. We don't have the test results back. We don't know if he's going to be charged with a crime. And yet from now on, everybody is going to associate sexual assault with Kobe Bryant's name. It's unfair.
SMERCONISH: Jeralyn, what can you tell us about the standard for sexual assault in the State of Colorado, because I understand that it's a more liberal standard than in many of the other states in the country.
MERRITT: Sure. Sexual assault in Colorado covers a variety of sexual acts and a variety of -- some that many people would not even consider that sexual. There's -- improper groping, for example, you know, can be a sexual assault. There's also misdemeanor levels, as well as felony levels, and it carries up to life in prison in Colorado.
SMERCONISH: Lisa, we don't know too much about this victim. We know that she's a blonde. We know her age. We know that she's a college student. But we know something else, that, apparently, she tried out for "American Idol." And I can just see the defense strategy already for Kobe Bryant being one of she was star struck based on that fact.
BLOOM: Oh, come on, Michael. It's so easy to go after alleged rape victims. She and about half of the other 19-year-olds in the country have tried out for a reality show. I don't think that necessarily besmirches her reputation...
SMERCONISH: I'm not saying it...
BLOOM: ... her credibility.
SMERCONISH: ... besmirches, but I can see that strategy.
BLOOM: When you're going up against somebody like Kobe Bryant, you need a lot of resources. You need your friends and family.
And, Jeralyn, let me go out to you because we've got to talk about the star factor in this case. I think, because this is Kobe Bryant, the sheriffs rushed to arrest him because they wanted to show they're going to be tough on a celebrity. I think, because it's Kobe Bryant, the D.A. is slow to charge because he wants to show that he's going to be very, very careful before he charges a celebrity. It can really work both ways, can't it?
MERRITT: It does work both ways, Lisa, and I think you're right about the district attorney. He wants to go slowly, but that's his style. He has always gone slowly. He's doing the right thing so far.
But the sheriff -- on the other hand, I don't know why he rushed Kobe Bryant to a hospital, why he rushed him to one in Glenwood Spring, which is 40 miles away from the Cordillera Lodge. Why didn't they go to Vail Valley Hospital?
SMERCONISH: Jeralyn, how does...
MERRITT: Something was up.
SMERCONISH: How does Kobe Bryant play in front of a Colorado jury? Kobe Bryant went to a high school in my home community. He's very popular in a suburban Philadelphia community. I would think that he would have some appeal in Colorado as well.
MERRITT: Oh, he'll have tremendous appeal. He's a hero here, everybody loves him, and that's all anybody is talking about.
KEENAN: But I think that's what makes this such a heart-tearing story.
I mean, on the one hand, you've got an alleged victim out there, and this can't be an easy thing to do when you're 19 years old, accuse one of the most famous people in the world of sexual assault, but, on the other hand, as jaded as we all are, everybody wants to believe in a hero. We all want to root and say, oh, he couldn't possibly do that, how could -- no one could be that stupid as to attack someone out in Vail, Colorado, when they're out there for surgery.
So you really -- it really tears on the heartstrings, and it's like it's being dragged out by the D.A., and so he's got us all sort of on the edge of our seats.
BLOOM: I think that's true, and I -- you know, the attacks on her have been fast and furious because she tried out for "American Idol." You know, what rape victim or alleged rape victim has ever become a superstar later on because she brought a charge like that? Far more likely is...
SMERCONISH: I don't -- I don't think it's an attack.
BLOOM: ... that her life is going to be turned upside down, that the press is going to be all over her, her family, and her short 19 years on this earth to try to find some dirt on her. That's what she faces.
SMERCONISH: It's not an attack. It's one of, what, five facts that we know about, and this...
BLOOM: Well, what's the relevance of it? Why bring it up?
SMERCONISH: The relevance may be that she put herself in a position with Kobe Bryant that she should not have.
BLOOM: She put herself in...
SMERCONISH: Look, this guy is not one...
BLOOM: ... employment at a hotel where she...
SMERCONISH: ... of the bad boys of the NBA. This...
BLOOM: ... was required to go bring some rooms service.
SMERCONISH: ... is a guy with a clean record as well.
BLOOM: That's what she did.
SMERCONISH: Lisa, this guy...
BLOOM: She didn't put herself...
SMERCONISH: ... has no record. He's not been convicted of anything, and he's not one of the thugs of the NBA.
BLOOM: And she hasn't been convicted of anything either or...
KEENAN: Exactly.
BLOOM: ... accused of any wrongdoing, except doing her job, bringing room service to a superstar who happened to come to her hotel that night.
SMERCONISH: I've never gotten room service from a concierge, but we'll wait and see how the facts...
KEENAN: I think that's what the problem is.
SMERCONISH: ... play themselves out.
KEENAN: It's like you're 19. You either have to be Monica Lewinsky, or you have to be a librarian. The reality is the average 19-year-old is probably neither.
MERRITT: And maybe nothing happened at all. So let's wait and see what the evidence says when it comes back.
SMERCONISH: Well, Jeralyn, the fact that they're taking some DNA would lead you to suspect that something took place. Whether it was consensual or not is what remains to be seen.
MERRITT: Oh, but -- well, let's -- you know, they're taking DNA but of what. It could be hairs. It could be fibers. We don't know that it's semen. We don't know that any sexual act actually occurred yet.
KEENAN: We have to take a quick break, Jeralyn Merritt. But thank you for sharing your perspective with us.
MERRITT: Sure.
KEENAN: Up next, the former "Baretta" star is back in the news. The latest turn in the Robert Blake murder trial when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Spiked lawsuit. Filmmaker Spike Lee settled his case against Viacom's new cable channel for men, "Spike TV."
Lee claimed the media giant hijacked his name to promote a network with, quote, "demeaning, vapid, and quasi-pornographic content." Viacom argued that Spike is a common name with no association to Lee.
The two parties settled out of court in a confidential agreement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SMERCONISH: Welcome back.
An intriguing development in the Robert Blake murder case. Robert Blake is charged in the shooting death of his wife, Bonny Lee Bakley, outside a California restaurant in May of 2001. This week, the judge ordered that a witness, Dianne Mattson, must testify in court. The defense contends that she has evidence that could implicate actor Marlon Brando's son, Christian, in a conspiracy to murder Bonny Lee Bakley. Mattson claims she heard Christian Brando tell two former stuntmen a few months before Bakley's death that, quote, "someone ought to put a bullet," unquote, through Bakley's head.
Mattson's attorney wanted her questioned in a pretrial hearing or videotaped session because she fears for her safety.
The question I have to ask is whether this is not Peterson in the making, meaning wasn't this a ploy to curry favor with prospective jurors.
BLOOM: Or Peterson in the making because it's an alternative killer theory the defense is trying to put forward, and I think this judge, by her decision, is saying I'm not buying it.
Even if the alternative killer theory is Christian Brando, someone who, in fact, has killed in the past -- if you remember in 1990, he killed his half-sister's boyfriend, spent six years in prison for that.
But this judge says there's nothing special about this, I'm not ordering a pretrial deposition, let her come and testify at trial.
KEENAN: But the witness is also Christian Brando's alibi. So how is she going to do both? How is she going to implicate him in a murder and then, at the same time, say, oh, but I was with him when it happened?
BLOOM: Well, her theory is that he set up someone else, the alleged stuntman Duffy Hambleton, to do the shooting, to do the killing. He's already a witness in the case, and I think her testimony could cast some doubt on the credibility of Duffy.
SMERCONISH: The thing's like a dime-store novel. I mean where do they invent these people? Duffy the stuntman. It's...
KEENAN: That's right.
SMERCONISH: You know, who's going to emerge next?
KEENAN: It's better than a cult. It's better than saying the cult did it.
BLOOM: And Duffy testified at Robert Blake's preliminary hearing that Blake approached him to pop her, to whack her, to sniff her out, using that same kind of dime-store language.
But this is an important case. Let's not forget the victim, Bonny Lee Bakley. She was the mother of four. A lot of people have made fun of her. But she was brutally murdered outside of a restaurant in Studio City, California.
And the last person seen with her was Robert Blake, and I think the judge is keeping that firmly in mind. KEENAN: Well, I think the fact that he was Baretta makes a lot of sense for why you have the dime-store whack sort of, you know, thump thou kind of thing going on. So it makes sense.
SMERCONISH: Despite his celluloid fame, I do not think Robert Blake is a guy you can put on the stand. Having watched that network interview that he did, I just -- I just don't think any jury is going to buy his wrap.
BLOOM: Well, he's still calling himself a cowboy. We'll have to wait and see.
Turning now to a strange twist in the killing of a California family. The man suspected of shooting to death his estranged wife, three children, and mother-in-law has been released. Police cited new information in the case and said they didn't have enough evidence to hold Vincent Brothers for the murders. Officials said they're continuing to collect evidence and urged Vincent Brothers to consent to a police interview.
Joining us to discuss this unusual case is Kaci Christian with CNN affiliate KBAK. She joins us in Bakersfield, California.
Welcome.
KACI CHRISTIAN, KBAK CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
BLOOM: Kaci, let me ask you why a question about Vincent Brothers. We know so little about him. What have you been able to find out?
CHRISTIAN: First of all, Vincent Brothers has been a member of this community here in Bakersfield for quite some time, and he is -- apparently has a very well-respected position. He joined the Bakersfield City School District in 1989 where he ascended the ranks, ultimately becoming vice principal at Fremont Elementary School.
SMERCONISH: Kaci, how about the weapons that were actually used in these murders? What do we know about them, and were any weapons registered in his name?
CHRISTIAN: You know, recent developments have revealed that the victims -- we've long been told so far that they were shot. We're also learning that they have also been stabbed. It's a terrible tragic twist in this case because it implies so much more pain and suffering on the fact of the victims. So police are searching for a .22-caliber handgun, and they're also searching for a stabbing weapon, perhaps a knife, of some sort.
KEENAN: Kaci, why don't the police consider Vincent Brothers to be a flight risk?
CHRISTIAN: You know, he -- they said recently that he -- they believe that he has ties to the community, that he's involved here, and that they do not consider him a flight risk. Whether or not that's really the case, I can't say. It would be conjecture to say that perhaps he will be under continued scrutiny, no matter where in the country he is, and he is expected -- he has been in North Carolina earlier this week and is expected to return to Bakersfield.
BLOOM: Well, I'm sure the police want to arrest their man. What's the next step for the police out in Bakersfield?
CHRISTIAN: Police continue to go through evidence they gathered. Amazing amounts of evidence at the crime scene. There's ballistics evidence, all kinds of trace evidence, and they also were able to secure a DNA sample. They did a buccal swab test on him, on Vincent Brothers, while he was in North Carolina. So they will able to compare DNA.
One of the problems, however, is that he resided in the house in the crime scene, and so it's going to be difficult to assess whether or not that evidence, you know, that he -- they compare it to -- whether his DNA being left at the scene is from this recent tragic killing or if it's from before when he lived in the residence.
SMERCONISH: Kaci, do we yet know whether this man has an alibi? There was some talk in the news last week about Ohio playing a role somehow in this case. The State of Ohio.
CHRISTIAN: Currently, investigators from the Bakersfield Police Department are in Ohio. We don't have word yet about why what that evidence may be.
But, you know, there is still a lot of conjecture about the time line. The bodies were found on Tuesday morning, but they had last been seen on Sunday morning in church. So they normally -- the family normally attended church services also in the evening, but they failed to show up there.
And then after -- on Monday, after no one hearing from them and them repeatedly getting phone calls at the house and no one answering, the best friend went to the house on Tuesday morning where she had a shocking and grizzly discovery finding the body of her best friend and that of the little girl who was just 23 months old.
That before they even found the other three victims.
BLOOM: Kaci Christian of CNN affiliate KBAK in Bakersfield, California.
Thanks for joining us.
Michael, I know the police are going to keep a close watch on this guy, Vincent Brothers. Maybe they'll put a GPS tracking device on his car like they did with Scott Peterson. They're not going to let this guy get away.
SMERCONISH: You know what I'm thinking? We talked earlier about Kobe Bryant, and some think that maybe the sheriff jumped the gun in making the arrest before the prosecutor was on board. Now you looking at this case, and you're thinking did the police believe, well, we're jumping the gun when we so quickly brought our charges, and then they backed off.
KEENAN: I think -- I think this is starting to be something that people can draw the parallels. You really need to take the advantage.
When you're the prosecution, you're supposed to put your case together before you put a defendant on notice because, if you do it this way, hey, he should be able to -- whatever he needs to do to make sure that he shows that he's innocent he has more of an opportunity.
I think this gives Kobe a great opportunity...
BLOOM: But...
KEENAN: ... and I think it gives Vincent Brothers a great opportunity.
BLOOM: But unlike Kobe Bryant, this looks like a family affair. When a wife, three kids, and a mother-in-law are shot down, the husband is going to be the logical suspect. Of course, they're going to look at him, unlike the Kobe Bryant case where it's simply a stranger.
SMERCONISH: And there are issues of past spousal abuse involving this fellow, not with this wife but with the prior wife. So stay tuned.
KEENAN: Well, we have to take another quick break.
Up next, the legal cases that make us say objection.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The former police chief made famous by the Washington, D.C., area sniper shootings, Charles Moose, has resolved some legal troubles of his own.
Moose signed a $170,000 book deal about the case, but the Montgomery County ethics committee forbids employees from using public office for personal gain. Moose resigned and agreed to relinquish the fee for the movie rights to his story. The amount: $4,250.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEENAN: More fallout from the Supreme Court's privacy rights ruling last month.
A decorated Vietnam veteran who was discharged from the Army for being gay is suing to reverse his dismissal. The Purple Heart recipient claims the Texas sodomy opinion retroactively guarantees his right to privacy, which he feels the don't-ask-don't-tell policy undermines. The lieutenant colonel was discharged just eight days before his 20-year retirement date, forcing him to forfeit an estimated $1-million pension.
Is this unfair or what? Absolutely he should be protesting this every chance he gets. I'm not sure about his procedural standing at this point, but it's wrong. It's just wrong to take a man's pension away under these circumstances.
BLOOM: Well, I think -- I think this is the next domino to fall after Justice Kennedy's sweeping decision in Lawrence v. Texas, which said that it is demeaning to lesbians and gay men to have sodomy laws criminalizing their behavior. It's equally demeaning, I think, to discriminate against lesbians and gays, to hold them down in the military, and this is a great test case for it.
SMERCONISH: Don't-ask-don't-tell is a very tolerant policy that was initiated by Bill Clinton, not the most conservative of presidents. I think the Supreme Court had a political decision and not a legal decision, and the don't-ask-don't-tell will survive.
BLOOM: I don't know how you can say it's tolerant if a man loses his pension just before retirement.
SMERCONISH: He shouldn't have come out of the closet.
BLOOM: Oh.
KEENAN: But, no, he didn't come out. He had an arson at his home, and they found the tape and turned it over. I mean this is somebody's who's -- consensual adult conduct in his home.
BLOOM: Now to a textbook case for a lawsuit. Some eighth- graders skipped school to attend a party where there might have been some fooling around going on but not all that surprising.
But when school officials heard about it, they decided the right punishment was a few tests for sexually-transmitted diseases and pregnancy. The students were suspended and allegedly told they would not be allowed to return until they provided a doctor's note with a clean bill of health. The girls are suing for violation of privacy.
Boy, is that a great case. And what a terrible lesson to teach young girls, that medical test tests are going to be a punishment instead of positive, preventative measures in their lives.
KEENAN: Where are the boys? What, they don't -- we don't care whether they have STDs, we don't care whether they can transmit diseases to other people? There's a bad message in there.
SMERCONISH: The bad message is that we're all focused on the school and not on the fact that 12-year-old girls are having sex. The New York Public Schools have to have a daycare program because out-of- wedlock pregnancy is so bad. That's what we should be focusing on.
BLOOM: But we don't know what the girls were doing when they were playing hooky, but why do the boys don't get detention and the girls get tested?
SMERCONISH: If they needed a test, they were doing something.
KEENAN: Well, it doesn't matter. You treat them both the same. In any event, our laws let us treat everyone exactly the same, and to treat the girls different just makes it worse to be a young girl.
BLOOM: And they have privacy rights in their medical records and in their sexuality even at 12.
KEENAN: You know, it tells them that the girls...
SMERCONISH: They shouldn't be having sex.
KEENAN: ... don't have any rights over their bodies, but...
SMERCONISH: OK.
KEENAN: ... the boys do.
SMERCONISH: We're their parents.
Now to a case of indigestion. A Pittsburgh Pirate player was booked for misdemeanor battery for hitting a sausage? Actually, first baseman Randall Simon used his bat to take a swing at a woman dressed up as an Italian sausage during the popular races at a Milwaukee game Wednesday. Prosecutors decided not to file criminal charges, but Simon was fined $432.
I like the middle America values from the sausage. She said, hey, I had a skinned knee, I'm not injured, it was a part of the whole drill, don't charge the guy criminally, let bygones be bygones.
KEENAN: She's the real hero here. She was a good sport. She took it in the spirit that it was meant. He was just stupid.
BLOOM: Oh, come on now. I've often wondered what's in a sausage. Now we find out it's actually a human being. You take a bat, you swing it at a human being, there should be some consequences, more than just a couple hundred dollars' fine.
SMERCONISH: A cheesecake can beat a sausage. I just want everybody to know that.
KEENAN: Yes, I think I'm with the cheesecake. Let's -- let's just skip the sausage.
Finally, we ask: Would you take this case? A former radio personality in Greenville, South Carolina, says she was fired for opposing the U.S. war in Iraq. Roxanne Walker is suing WMYI Radio, its parent company Clear Channel Communications, and several others.
Walker claims that she was encouraged to join pro-war discussions with her co-host, and then she was belittled both on and off the air because of her political views. Walker says, quote, "I went through hell. I was forced out because I would not comply with their orders to be silent," unquote.
It's still America. That's a great case. Good work if you can get it, and I would take it any day of the week.
BLOOM: The only surprising part about this case to me, Michael, is that she actually had the guts to bring a lawsuit in an industry that is controlled by one dominant player, Clear Channel. She may never work again. I'd love to see what she's doing in five years after she stepped forward in this one.
SMERCONISH: Get some ratings, and you won't get fired. Look, this demonization of Clear Channel is ridiculous. A syndicated radio host by the name of Glenn Beck put on pro-troop, pro-America rallies during the Iraq war, and the media spun that into Clear Channel somehow trying to massage the Bush administration, and she's trying to capitalize on it. Nothing further.
That's all the time we have. On behalf of Lisa Bloom and Kim Keenan, I'm Michael Smerconish, thanks for watching.
CNN continues after this break.
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Aired July 13, 2003 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST: I'm Michael Smerconish with Court TV's Lisa Bloom and guest host Kim Keenan. Welcome to ATTORNEYS AT LAW.
KIM KEENAN, GUEST HOST: Robert Blake's attorneys want to drag another famous name into his murder case. We'll examine the latest twists.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: But lets begin with "The Big Case."
A squeaky clean NBA star is accused of sexual misconduct. Los Angeles Lakers basketball player Kobe Bryant is back in California, free on $25,000 bail, after a woman accused him of sexual misconduct during an encounter in a hotel room in Colorado.
Here's the catch: Prosecutors have not yet decided if they will file charges against the NBA star. District Attorney Mark Hurlbert explains.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK HURLBERT, EAGLE, COLORADO, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It's a very serious allegation, and we want to make sure that we are thorough and we want to make sure that we're complete. And we are reviewing the police reports, we are reviewing the evidence, and we are seeing if any more investigation needs to be done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Bryant was staying at the lodge and spa at Cordillera while having knee surgery at a nearby sports clinic. Bryant's attorney says he is innocent and expects to be exonerated.
Joining us to discuss "The Big Case," Colorado criminal-defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt.
Welcome, Jeralyn.
JERALYN MERRITT, CRIMINAL-DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi. How are you?
SMERCONISH: We're great.
Hey, Jeralyn, I don't understand maybe the way things get done in Colorado. On one hand, you have the sheriff who goes out and arrests Kobe Bryant. Now the prosecutors seem to be saying, well, not so fast. Is there a disconnect between the two? MERRITT: Absolutely. And that's not the normal procedure in Colorado. Usually in Colorado, the police will prepare a report, submit it to the district attorney. He looks at the facts and decides what law the person may have broke, and, as you heard Mr. Hurlbert, there may have not been -- be any law he's broken in this case.
BLOOM: Kim, let me ask you a question because I know you're a former president of a rape crisis center. It strikes me that this victim so far has done everything right. She immediately reported the crime. She went to a hospital and had medical tests done. She hasn't sold her story. She hasn't talked to the press. She hasn't filed a civil case. So far so good?
KEENAN: So far so good, but she can't be feeling really good about this process. Here she's done everything right, and the prosecutor is saying he may be charged with felony sexual assault, he may be charged with something else, he might not be charged with something at all. She's got to be feeling like, oh, my God, I put myself on the line, and look what's going on here.
BLOOM: Well, Jeralyn, let me ask you a question. Isn't the D.A. just proceeding with all deliberate speed? Isn't he taking appropriate steps probably to review the DNA evidence that we know Kobe Bryant submitted to, to look at all of the test results before he reaches a charging decision?
MERRITT: Lisa, that's exactly what he's doing, and that's what he should be doing, and this D.A. has done this before.
Last year in his county, there was a skiing fatality, and, while the guy stayed in jail for four days, he reviewed all of the evidence, and then he said I'm not filing, there's no case.
KEENAN: But, Jeralyn, I mean when we talk about a disconnect, this is way off the page. I mean the sheriff is saying, hey, I've got probable cause, I'm going to file this immediately. He jumps over the D.A. and files this. I mean what can he be thinking about? How can it be so different when the prosecutor gets the same information?
MERRITT: I don't understand why the sheriff did what he did, and I bet, if he had to do it again, he would do it differently. He smeared this guy's reputation. We don't have the test results back. We don't know if he's going to be charged with a crime. And yet from now on, everybody is going to associate sexual assault with Kobe Bryant's name. It's unfair.
SMERCONISH: Jeralyn, what can you tell us about the standard for sexual assault in the State of Colorado, because I understand that it's a more liberal standard than in many of the other states in the country.
MERRITT: Sure. Sexual assault in Colorado covers a variety of sexual acts and a variety of -- some that many people would not even consider that sexual. There's -- improper groping, for example, you know, can be a sexual assault. There's also misdemeanor levels, as well as felony levels, and it carries up to life in prison in Colorado.
SMERCONISH: Lisa, we don't know too much about this victim. We know that she's a blonde. We know her age. We know that she's a college student. But we know something else, that, apparently, she tried out for "American Idol." And I can just see the defense strategy already for Kobe Bryant being one of she was star struck based on that fact.
BLOOM: Oh, come on, Michael. It's so easy to go after alleged rape victims. She and about half of the other 19-year-olds in the country have tried out for a reality show. I don't think that necessarily besmirches her reputation...
SMERCONISH: I'm not saying it...
BLOOM: ... her credibility.
SMERCONISH: ... besmirches, but I can see that strategy.
BLOOM: When you're going up against somebody like Kobe Bryant, you need a lot of resources. You need your friends and family.
And, Jeralyn, let me go out to you because we've got to talk about the star factor in this case. I think, because this is Kobe Bryant, the sheriffs rushed to arrest him because they wanted to show they're going to be tough on a celebrity. I think, because it's Kobe Bryant, the D.A. is slow to charge because he wants to show that he's going to be very, very careful before he charges a celebrity. It can really work both ways, can't it?
MERRITT: It does work both ways, Lisa, and I think you're right about the district attorney. He wants to go slowly, but that's his style. He has always gone slowly. He's doing the right thing so far.
But the sheriff -- on the other hand, I don't know why he rushed Kobe Bryant to a hospital, why he rushed him to one in Glenwood Spring, which is 40 miles away from the Cordillera Lodge. Why didn't they go to Vail Valley Hospital?
SMERCONISH: Jeralyn, how does...
MERRITT: Something was up.
SMERCONISH: How does Kobe Bryant play in front of a Colorado jury? Kobe Bryant went to a high school in my home community. He's very popular in a suburban Philadelphia community. I would think that he would have some appeal in Colorado as well.
MERRITT: Oh, he'll have tremendous appeal. He's a hero here, everybody loves him, and that's all anybody is talking about.
KEENAN: But I think that's what makes this such a heart-tearing story.
I mean, on the one hand, you've got an alleged victim out there, and this can't be an easy thing to do when you're 19 years old, accuse one of the most famous people in the world of sexual assault, but, on the other hand, as jaded as we all are, everybody wants to believe in a hero. We all want to root and say, oh, he couldn't possibly do that, how could -- no one could be that stupid as to attack someone out in Vail, Colorado, when they're out there for surgery.
So you really -- it really tears on the heartstrings, and it's like it's being dragged out by the D.A., and so he's got us all sort of on the edge of our seats.
BLOOM: I think that's true, and I -- you know, the attacks on her have been fast and furious because she tried out for "American Idol." You know, what rape victim or alleged rape victim has ever become a superstar later on because she brought a charge like that? Far more likely is...
SMERCONISH: I don't -- I don't think it's an attack.
BLOOM: ... that her life is going to be turned upside down, that the press is going to be all over her, her family, and her short 19 years on this earth to try to find some dirt on her. That's what she faces.
SMERCONISH: It's not an attack. It's one of, what, five facts that we know about, and this...
BLOOM: Well, what's the relevance of it? Why bring it up?
SMERCONISH: The relevance may be that she put herself in a position with Kobe Bryant that she should not have.
BLOOM: She put herself in...
SMERCONISH: Look, this guy is not one...
BLOOM: ... employment at a hotel where she...
SMERCONISH: ... of the bad boys of the NBA. This...
BLOOM: ... was required to go bring some rooms service.
SMERCONISH: ... is a guy with a clean record as well.
BLOOM: That's what she did.
SMERCONISH: Lisa, this guy...
BLOOM: She didn't put herself...
SMERCONISH: ... has no record. He's not been convicted of anything, and he's not one of the thugs of the NBA.
BLOOM: And she hasn't been convicted of anything either or...
KEENAN: Exactly.
BLOOM: ... accused of any wrongdoing, except doing her job, bringing room service to a superstar who happened to come to her hotel that night.
SMERCONISH: I've never gotten room service from a concierge, but we'll wait and see how the facts...
KEENAN: I think that's what the problem is.
SMERCONISH: ... play themselves out.
KEENAN: It's like you're 19. You either have to be Monica Lewinsky, or you have to be a librarian. The reality is the average 19-year-old is probably neither.
MERRITT: And maybe nothing happened at all. So let's wait and see what the evidence says when it comes back.
SMERCONISH: Well, Jeralyn, the fact that they're taking some DNA would lead you to suspect that something took place. Whether it was consensual or not is what remains to be seen.
MERRITT: Oh, but -- well, let's -- you know, they're taking DNA but of what. It could be hairs. It could be fibers. We don't know that it's semen. We don't know that any sexual act actually occurred yet.
KEENAN: We have to take a quick break, Jeralyn Merritt. But thank you for sharing your perspective with us.
MERRITT: Sure.
KEENAN: Up next, the former "Baretta" star is back in the news. The latest turn in the Robert Blake murder trial when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Spiked lawsuit. Filmmaker Spike Lee settled his case against Viacom's new cable channel for men, "Spike TV."
Lee claimed the media giant hijacked his name to promote a network with, quote, "demeaning, vapid, and quasi-pornographic content." Viacom argued that Spike is a common name with no association to Lee.
The two parties settled out of court in a confidential agreement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SMERCONISH: Welcome back.
An intriguing development in the Robert Blake murder case. Robert Blake is charged in the shooting death of his wife, Bonny Lee Bakley, outside a California restaurant in May of 2001. This week, the judge ordered that a witness, Dianne Mattson, must testify in court. The defense contends that she has evidence that could implicate actor Marlon Brando's son, Christian, in a conspiracy to murder Bonny Lee Bakley. Mattson claims she heard Christian Brando tell two former stuntmen a few months before Bakley's death that, quote, "someone ought to put a bullet," unquote, through Bakley's head.
Mattson's attorney wanted her questioned in a pretrial hearing or videotaped session because she fears for her safety.
The question I have to ask is whether this is not Peterson in the making, meaning wasn't this a ploy to curry favor with prospective jurors.
BLOOM: Or Peterson in the making because it's an alternative killer theory the defense is trying to put forward, and I think this judge, by her decision, is saying I'm not buying it.
Even if the alternative killer theory is Christian Brando, someone who, in fact, has killed in the past -- if you remember in 1990, he killed his half-sister's boyfriend, spent six years in prison for that.
But this judge says there's nothing special about this, I'm not ordering a pretrial deposition, let her come and testify at trial.
KEENAN: But the witness is also Christian Brando's alibi. So how is she going to do both? How is she going to implicate him in a murder and then, at the same time, say, oh, but I was with him when it happened?
BLOOM: Well, her theory is that he set up someone else, the alleged stuntman Duffy Hambleton, to do the shooting, to do the killing. He's already a witness in the case, and I think her testimony could cast some doubt on the credibility of Duffy.
SMERCONISH: The thing's like a dime-store novel. I mean where do they invent these people? Duffy the stuntman. It's...
KEENAN: That's right.
SMERCONISH: You know, who's going to emerge next?
KEENAN: It's better than a cult. It's better than saying the cult did it.
BLOOM: And Duffy testified at Robert Blake's preliminary hearing that Blake approached him to pop her, to whack her, to sniff her out, using that same kind of dime-store language.
But this is an important case. Let's not forget the victim, Bonny Lee Bakley. She was the mother of four. A lot of people have made fun of her. But she was brutally murdered outside of a restaurant in Studio City, California.
And the last person seen with her was Robert Blake, and I think the judge is keeping that firmly in mind. KEENAN: Well, I think the fact that he was Baretta makes a lot of sense for why you have the dime-store whack sort of, you know, thump thou kind of thing going on. So it makes sense.
SMERCONISH: Despite his celluloid fame, I do not think Robert Blake is a guy you can put on the stand. Having watched that network interview that he did, I just -- I just don't think any jury is going to buy his wrap.
BLOOM: Well, he's still calling himself a cowboy. We'll have to wait and see.
Turning now to a strange twist in the killing of a California family. The man suspected of shooting to death his estranged wife, three children, and mother-in-law has been released. Police cited new information in the case and said they didn't have enough evidence to hold Vincent Brothers for the murders. Officials said they're continuing to collect evidence and urged Vincent Brothers to consent to a police interview.
Joining us to discuss this unusual case is Kaci Christian with CNN affiliate KBAK. She joins us in Bakersfield, California.
Welcome.
KACI CHRISTIAN, KBAK CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
BLOOM: Kaci, let me ask you why a question about Vincent Brothers. We know so little about him. What have you been able to find out?
CHRISTIAN: First of all, Vincent Brothers has been a member of this community here in Bakersfield for quite some time, and he is -- apparently has a very well-respected position. He joined the Bakersfield City School District in 1989 where he ascended the ranks, ultimately becoming vice principal at Fremont Elementary School.
SMERCONISH: Kaci, how about the weapons that were actually used in these murders? What do we know about them, and were any weapons registered in his name?
CHRISTIAN: You know, recent developments have revealed that the victims -- we've long been told so far that they were shot. We're also learning that they have also been stabbed. It's a terrible tragic twist in this case because it implies so much more pain and suffering on the fact of the victims. So police are searching for a .22-caliber handgun, and they're also searching for a stabbing weapon, perhaps a knife, of some sort.
KEENAN: Kaci, why don't the police consider Vincent Brothers to be a flight risk?
CHRISTIAN: You know, he -- they said recently that he -- they believe that he has ties to the community, that he's involved here, and that they do not consider him a flight risk. Whether or not that's really the case, I can't say. It would be conjecture to say that perhaps he will be under continued scrutiny, no matter where in the country he is, and he is expected -- he has been in North Carolina earlier this week and is expected to return to Bakersfield.
BLOOM: Well, I'm sure the police want to arrest their man. What's the next step for the police out in Bakersfield?
CHRISTIAN: Police continue to go through evidence they gathered. Amazing amounts of evidence at the crime scene. There's ballistics evidence, all kinds of trace evidence, and they also were able to secure a DNA sample. They did a buccal swab test on him, on Vincent Brothers, while he was in North Carolina. So they will able to compare DNA.
One of the problems, however, is that he resided in the house in the crime scene, and so it's going to be difficult to assess whether or not that evidence, you know, that he -- they compare it to -- whether his DNA being left at the scene is from this recent tragic killing or if it's from before when he lived in the residence.
SMERCONISH: Kaci, do we yet know whether this man has an alibi? There was some talk in the news last week about Ohio playing a role somehow in this case. The State of Ohio.
CHRISTIAN: Currently, investigators from the Bakersfield Police Department are in Ohio. We don't have word yet about why what that evidence may be.
But, you know, there is still a lot of conjecture about the time line. The bodies were found on Tuesday morning, but they had last been seen on Sunday morning in church. So they normally -- the family normally attended church services also in the evening, but they failed to show up there.
And then after -- on Monday, after no one hearing from them and them repeatedly getting phone calls at the house and no one answering, the best friend went to the house on Tuesday morning where she had a shocking and grizzly discovery finding the body of her best friend and that of the little girl who was just 23 months old.
That before they even found the other three victims.
BLOOM: Kaci Christian of CNN affiliate KBAK in Bakersfield, California.
Thanks for joining us.
Michael, I know the police are going to keep a close watch on this guy, Vincent Brothers. Maybe they'll put a GPS tracking device on his car like they did with Scott Peterson. They're not going to let this guy get away.
SMERCONISH: You know what I'm thinking? We talked earlier about Kobe Bryant, and some think that maybe the sheriff jumped the gun in making the arrest before the prosecutor was on board. Now you looking at this case, and you're thinking did the police believe, well, we're jumping the gun when we so quickly brought our charges, and then they backed off.
KEENAN: I think -- I think this is starting to be something that people can draw the parallels. You really need to take the advantage.
When you're the prosecution, you're supposed to put your case together before you put a defendant on notice because, if you do it this way, hey, he should be able to -- whatever he needs to do to make sure that he shows that he's innocent he has more of an opportunity.
I think this gives Kobe a great opportunity...
BLOOM: But...
KEENAN: ... and I think it gives Vincent Brothers a great opportunity.
BLOOM: But unlike Kobe Bryant, this looks like a family affair. When a wife, three kids, and a mother-in-law are shot down, the husband is going to be the logical suspect. Of course, they're going to look at him, unlike the Kobe Bryant case where it's simply a stranger.
SMERCONISH: And there are issues of past spousal abuse involving this fellow, not with this wife but with the prior wife. So stay tuned.
KEENAN: Well, we have to take another quick break.
Up next, the legal cases that make us say objection.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The former police chief made famous by the Washington, D.C., area sniper shootings, Charles Moose, has resolved some legal troubles of his own.
Moose signed a $170,000 book deal about the case, but the Montgomery County ethics committee forbids employees from using public office for personal gain. Moose resigned and agreed to relinquish the fee for the movie rights to his story. The amount: $4,250.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEENAN: More fallout from the Supreme Court's privacy rights ruling last month.
A decorated Vietnam veteran who was discharged from the Army for being gay is suing to reverse his dismissal. The Purple Heart recipient claims the Texas sodomy opinion retroactively guarantees his right to privacy, which he feels the don't-ask-don't-tell policy undermines. The lieutenant colonel was discharged just eight days before his 20-year retirement date, forcing him to forfeit an estimated $1-million pension.
Is this unfair or what? Absolutely he should be protesting this every chance he gets. I'm not sure about his procedural standing at this point, but it's wrong. It's just wrong to take a man's pension away under these circumstances.
BLOOM: Well, I think -- I think this is the next domino to fall after Justice Kennedy's sweeping decision in Lawrence v. Texas, which said that it is demeaning to lesbians and gay men to have sodomy laws criminalizing their behavior. It's equally demeaning, I think, to discriminate against lesbians and gays, to hold them down in the military, and this is a great test case for it.
SMERCONISH: Don't-ask-don't-tell is a very tolerant policy that was initiated by Bill Clinton, not the most conservative of presidents. I think the Supreme Court had a political decision and not a legal decision, and the don't-ask-don't-tell will survive.
BLOOM: I don't know how you can say it's tolerant if a man loses his pension just before retirement.
SMERCONISH: He shouldn't have come out of the closet.
BLOOM: Oh.
KEENAN: But, no, he didn't come out. He had an arson at his home, and they found the tape and turned it over. I mean this is somebody's who's -- consensual adult conduct in his home.
BLOOM: Now to a textbook case for a lawsuit. Some eighth- graders skipped school to attend a party where there might have been some fooling around going on but not all that surprising.
But when school officials heard about it, they decided the right punishment was a few tests for sexually-transmitted diseases and pregnancy. The students were suspended and allegedly told they would not be allowed to return until they provided a doctor's note with a clean bill of health. The girls are suing for violation of privacy.
Boy, is that a great case. And what a terrible lesson to teach young girls, that medical test tests are going to be a punishment instead of positive, preventative measures in their lives.
KEENAN: Where are the boys? What, they don't -- we don't care whether they have STDs, we don't care whether they can transmit diseases to other people? There's a bad message in there.
SMERCONISH: The bad message is that we're all focused on the school and not on the fact that 12-year-old girls are having sex. The New York Public Schools have to have a daycare program because out-of- wedlock pregnancy is so bad. That's what we should be focusing on.
BLOOM: But we don't know what the girls were doing when they were playing hooky, but why do the boys don't get detention and the girls get tested?
SMERCONISH: If they needed a test, they were doing something.
KEENAN: Well, it doesn't matter. You treat them both the same. In any event, our laws let us treat everyone exactly the same, and to treat the girls different just makes it worse to be a young girl.
BLOOM: And they have privacy rights in their medical records and in their sexuality even at 12.
KEENAN: You know, it tells them that the girls...
SMERCONISH: They shouldn't be having sex.
KEENAN: ... don't have any rights over their bodies, but...
SMERCONISH: OK.
KEENAN: ... the boys do.
SMERCONISH: We're their parents.
Now to a case of indigestion. A Pittsburgh Pirate player was booked for misdemeanor battery for hitting a sausage? Actually, first baseman Randall Simon used his bat to take a swing at a woman dressed up as an Italian sausage during the popular races at a Milwaukee game Wednesday. Prosecutors decided not to file criminal charges, but Simon was fined $432.
I like the middle America values from the sausage. She said, hey, I had a skinned knee, I'm not injured, it was a part of the whole drill, don't charge the guy criminally, let bygones be bygones.
KEENAN: She's the real hero here. She was a good sport. She took it in the spirit that it was meant. He was just stupid.
BLOOM: Oh, come on now. I've often wondered what's in a sausage. Now we find out it's actually a human being. You take a bat, you swing it at a human being, there should be some consequences, more than just a couple hundred dollars' fine.
SMERCONISH: A cheesecake can beat a sausage. I just want everybody to know that.
KEENAN: Yes, I think I'm with the cheesecake. Let's -- let's just skip the sausage.
Finally, we ask: Would you take this case? A former radio personality in Greenville, South Carolina, says she was fired for opposing the U.S. war in Iraq. Roxanne Walker is suing WMYI Radio, its parent company Clear Channel Communications, and several others.
Walker claims that she was encouraged to join pro-war discussions with her co-host, and then she was belittled both on and off the air because of her political views. Walker says, quote, "I went through hell. I was forced out because I would not comply with their orders to be silent," unquote.
It's still America. That's a great case. Good work if you can get it, and I would take it any day of the week.
BLOOM: The only surprising part about this case to me, Michael, is that she actually had the guts to bring a lawsuit in an industry that is controlled by one dominant player, Clear Channel. She may never work again. I'd love to see what she's doing in five years after she stepped forward in this one.
SMERCONISH: Get some ratings, and you won't get fired. Look, this demonization of Clear Channel is ridiculous. A syndicated radio host by the name of Glenn Beck put on pro-troop, pro-America rallies during the Iraq war, and the media spun that into Clear Channel somehow trying to massage the Bush administration, and she's trying to capitalize on it. Nothing further.
That's all the time we have. On behalf of Lisa Bloom and Kim Keenan, I'm Michael Smerconish, thanks for watching.
CNN continues after this break.
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