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CNN Live Today

Saddam Speaks Again?

Aired July 17, 2003 - 11:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. military now acknowledges a new phase in the hostilities there. General John Abuzaid (ph), who recently took over Central Command from General Tommy Franks says that the ongoing attacks have all the earmarks of classic guerrilla-type warfare. In addition, he says the Iraqi resistance is more organized than before.
Now no sooner did we get General Abuzaid's sobering assessment than a voice purported to be Saddam Hussein's surfaces in a new audio tape, urging armed resistance.

Now CNN can not verify that the voice on the tape is Saddam's, but the timing is no coincidence. Today is the 35th anniversary of the time when the Baath Party rose to power in Iraq, and it has been a national holiday up until just days ago.

Writer Simon Henderson joins us now by phone from Los Angeles. He is the author of the book "Instant Empire: Saddam Hussein's Ambition for Iraq," and Simon has been with us before to talk about what's happening there in Iraq.

And, Simon, last time we did talk, you mentioned that there may be more attacks or more events coming to mark some of these anniversaries, and today we have one.

What do you make of it?

SIMON HENDERSON, AUTHOR: Well, in the general sense of good feeling on my own part that I was able to predict something reasonably accurate, I don't have a very satisfactory sense at all. This is a disturbing situation that the attacks are continuing, that the attacks appear to be organized, and yet we're still uncertain about the status of Saddam Hussein. There's a general assumption that he's alive, but mere audiotapes and an occasional fax in the past handwritten supposedly by him, aren't really convincing evidence.

Oh, dear, I say to myself, why can't we have a videotape? Maybe there's more to this than what those are supporting Saddam would like us to realize.

HARRIS: What do you suspect then?

HENDERSON: Well, I don't find it hard to believe that there are supporters of Saddam and supporters of the Baath Party who are still out there and still determined to make the Americans' life uncomfortable in Iraq, the Americans and the British. But I'm uncertain whether Saddam has a leading role in that. There's no real evidence that he has a leading organizational role. Think of the impact of a photograph of Saddam, a recent photograph, something which would suggest it's recent anyway, or a videotape on Iraqi resistance. It would be tremendous, and indeed a great setback to the American forces.

HARRIS: That's a very interesting observation.

What about the dates? You talked about specifically, you mentioned this one and maybe a couple other dates this month that would perhaps be perfect opportunities for some sort of an event and maybe a catastrophic one of some kind to rally the forces that have been pro-Saddam. Do you expect something to happen today?

HENDERSON: Well, today, it is early for us in the United States, but it's already late in Iraq itself, and we're running out of time.

This was the day in 1968 when the Baath Party came to power. Yesterday was the anniversary of the date in 1979 when Saddam Hussein personally became the leader of Iraq and the beginning of the week, July 14th, was the anniversary of the date in 1958 when the Iraqi monarchy was overthrown by Iraqi army.

So those are the dates. There aren't any more dates in July, unless there's a significant event in the residual hours of today. I think we might have to wait until something else happens.

HARRIS: Let me ask you something else about this. The fact is now, no matter what, Saddam Hussein has been deposed. He's also been exposed as being a tragic leader, a leader who was basically responsible for some of the most heinous crimes against his own people, and yet this network, Al Arabia, felt it was fine for them to run this 15-minute tape, perhaps benefiting his cause. What do you make of that?

HENDERSON: It's all rather bizarre. There's Al-Arabia, who's to be doing this, and of course, Al Jazeera, the Qatari television station which has been doing this.

It would seem that Arab television stations think they have carte blanche to make the predicament of the United States in Iraq as awkward as possible, and not to say anything how ghastly Saddam's regime has been, the number of people who ended up in mass graves, the fact that most of the country, much of the country isn't being militantly resisting against American forces. They tell the bad news, they don't tell the good news.

HARRIS: Well, Simon, I finally have it ask you this, because this is just one final note I picked up here from some of the wires that have been were written about this 15-minute tape. The speaker on this tape is saying that the door is open for any loyal Iraqi not a follower of the coalition to run the country. And this is the first time Saddam has talked about someone other than himself stepping up and leading the country. Do you see that as evidence that perhaps this is not Saddam on this tape?

HENDERSON: Well, it's certainly an interesting question, because the idea that Saddam thinks he could share power with anybody else, or somebody could replace him, I think is very much against what Saddam was all about. Saddam identified himself totally with the country, and thought the country identified itself totally with him. He was -- there was a cruel awakening for him when he was overthrown in April, but he doesn't appear, if he's still alive, to have learned the lesson.

HARRIS: We still want to see what happens next. And, Simon Henderson, we'd love to have your insight on it as we watch these next significant dates approach on the calendar. Take care, and thank you very much for your insight this time around. We will talk with you later, that's for sure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired July 17, 2003 - 11:11   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. military now acknowledges a new phase in the hostilities there. General John Abuzaid (ph), who recently took over Central Command from General Tommy Franks says that the ongoing attacks have all the earmarks of classic guerrilla-type warfare. In addition, he says the Iraqi resistance is more organized than before.
Now no sooner did we get General Abuzaid's sobering assessment than a voice purported to be Saddam Hussein's surfaces in a new audio tape, urging armed resistance.

Now CNN can not verify that the voice on the tape is Saddam's, but the timing is no coincidence. Today is the 35th anniversary of the time when the Baath Party rose to power in Iraq, and it has been a national holiday up until just days ago.

Writer Simon Henderson joins us now by phone from Los Angeles. He is the author of the book "Instant Empire: Saddam Hussein's Ambition for Iraq," and Simon has been with us before to talk about what's happening there in Iraq.

And, Simon, last time we did talk, you mentioned that there may be more attacks or more events coming to mark some of these anniversaries, and today we have one.

What do you make of it?

SIMON HENDERSON, AUTHOR: Well, in the general sense of good feeling on my own part that I was able to predict something reasonably accurate, I don't have a very satisfactory sense at all. This is a disturbing situation that the attacks are continuing, that the attacks appear to be organized, and yet we're still uncertain about the status of Saddam Hussein. There's a general assumption that he's alive, but mere audiotapes and an occasional fax in the past handwritten supposedly by him, aren't really convincing evidence.

Oh, dear, I say to myself, why can't we have a videotape? Maybe there's more to this than what those are supporting Saddam would like us to realize.

HARRIS: What do you suspect then?

HENDERSON: Well, I don't find it hard to believe that there are supporters of Saddam and supporters of the Baath Party who are still out there and still determined to make the Americans' life uncomfortable in Iraq, the Americans and the British. But I'm uncertain whether Saddam has a leading role in that. There's no real evidence that he has a leading organizational role. Think of the impact of a photograph of Saddam, a recent photograph, something which would suggest it's recent anyway, or a videotape on Iraqi resistance. It would be tremendous, and indeed a great setback to the American forces.

HARRIS: That's a very interesting observation.

What about the dates? You talked about specifically, you mentioned this one and maybe a couple other dates this month that would perhaps be perfect opportunities for some sort of an event and maybe a catastrophic one of some kind to rally the forces that have been pro-Saddam. Do you expect something to happen today?

HENDERSON: Well, today, it is early for us in the United States, but it's already late in Iraq itself, and we're running out of time.

This was the day in 1968 when the Baath Party came to power. Yesterday was the anniversary of the date in 1979 when Saddam Hussein personally became the leader of Iraq and the beginning of the week, July 14th, was the anniversary of the date in 1958 when the Iraqi monarchy was overthrown by Iraqi army.

So those are the dates. There aren't any more dates in July, unless there's a significant event in the residual hours of today. I think we might have to wait until something else happens.

HARRIS: Let me ask you something else about this. The fact is now, no matter what, Saddam Hussein has been deposed. He's also been exposed as being a tragic leader, a leader who was basically responsible for some of the most heinous crimes against his own people, and yet this network, Al Arabia, felt it was fine for them to run this 15-minute tape, perhaps benefiting his cause. What do you make of that?

HENDERSON: It's all rather bizarre. There's Al-Arabia, who's to be doing this, and of course, Al Jazeera, the Qatari television station which has been doing this.

It would seem that Arab television stations think they have carte blanche to make the predicament of the United States in Iraq as awkward as possible, and not to say anything how ghastly Saddam's regime has been, the number of people who ended up in mass graves, the fact that most of the country, much of the country isn't being militantly resisting against American forces. They tell the bad news, they don't tell the good news.

HARRIS: Well, Simon, I finally have it ask you this, because this is just one final note I picked up here from some of the wires that have been were written about this 15-minute tape. The speaker on this tape is saying that the door is open for any loyal Iraqi not a follower of the coalition to run the country. And this is the first time Saddam has talked about someone other than himself stepping up and leading the country. Do you see that as evidence that perhaps this is not Saddam on this tape?

HENDERSON: Well, it's certainly an interesting question, because the idea that Saddam thinks he could share power with anybody else, or somebody could replace him, I think is very much against what Saddam was all about. Saddam identified himself totally with the country, and thought the country identified itself totally with him. He was -- there was a cruel awakening for him when he was overthrown in April, but he doesn't appear, if he's still alive, to have learned the lesson.

HARRIS: We still want to see what happens next. And, Simon Henderson, we'd love to have your insight on it as we watch these next significant dates approach on the calendar. Take care, and thank you very much for your insight this time around. We will talk with you later, that's for sure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com