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CNN Saturday Morning News
Interview With Don Van Natta
Aired July 19, 2003 - 07:40 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Davis Love, III is the leader going into the third round of the British Open. Now, he tees off in a few hours as the only player under par, believe it or not. Tiger Woods, Vijay Singh and defending champ Ernie Els are all at least four shots back.
And for millions of hackers across the globe, the game of golf is much more than just playing in the grass. But how you play the game can be a surprising clue into your true nature.
Don Van Natta is an investigative reporter for the "New York Times" and he has studied the games of our golfing presidents. Tough gig you got there, Don. His book is "First Off the Tee" and he joins us from our London bureau this morning.
Thanks so much for being with us, Don.
DON VAN NATTA, "NEW YORK TIMES": Good morning, Heidi.
COLLINS: I'm interested to know in your book, what exactly was surprising to you about the golf game and the presidents themselves, particularly on the issue of character?
VAN NATTA: What surprised me is how often these presidents reveal themselves and their style of leadership on the golf course. Because they let their guards down and leave the press and public behind on the first tee and we don't see them again until the 18th green, they're really themselves out there. And I was really surprised, almost to a man, how often presidential leadership was reflected on the golf course.
COLLINS: Give us some examples. What were some of your most surprising findings about particular presidents?
VAN NATTA: Well, William Howard Taft, the first presidential golfer, really, the symbol of his ambivalence about being president was really seen on the golf course. He would rather be golfing than governing. He often snuck out of the White House to play 18 holes at Chevy Chase Club outside Washington, D.C. He one time had a meeting with a diplomat, a Chilean diplomat, and he said I'll be damned if I'm going to give up my golf game to see this fellow.
So Taft, it really was reflected with Taft. And with many of them. John F. Kennedy, for instance, the best of all the presidential golfers, he kept his game in the closet and a secret. Of course, he had many secrets, golf being just one of them, but he was worried about being seen as another duffer in chief like Dwight Eisenhower so he kept his game a secret from the American people.
COLLINS: Probably a good idea on his part.
VAN NATTA: Right.
COLLINS: Now, I know you tried to play golf, or at least some rounds, with as many presidents as possible. But Clinton was the only one who took you up on it.
What was that like?
VAN NATTA: Oh, it was a great time. We played last summer at a course near his house in Chappaqua, New York. He knew I was there basically to see whether all the rumors and reports about his cheating on the golf course were true. And he was on his best behavior with me for about a hole and a half. In fact, on the second fairway he asked when his ball landed in a puddle near a sprinkler head, what the ruling on that was, just to show what a meticulous rule follower he was.
But after that, it was like a switch had been thrown and it was all downhill. He took three or three shots off the fairway, a couple of shots off the tee. He took a couple of chip shots around the green. I saw two or three no putt pars that day. At the end of the day he had an 82 on his score card, but it took him 200 swings to get there.
COLLINS: Now, after only a hole and a half? Eighteen holes he was playing? How many holes did you play?
VAN NATTA: We played 18 holes. It was on the second fairway that he was sort of showing me that he follows the rules and after that is when he let his guard down and he took quite a few Mulligans the rest of the afternoon.
COLLINS: I also want to ask you a question about something that you write in your book. You say that, "Golf draws presidents because the game says no."
What do you mean by that?
VAN NATTA: Well, I think it's the game's uncompromising difficulty that really appeals to the American presidents. Just about everybody in their personal lives says yes to them and bends over backwards to do things for them. And I think they really like the fact that on a golf course they're on their own. You know, no strategist can blast out of a sand trap for them. There's no presidential aide that can sink that tough eight foot putt for them. They're on their own and they can do it themselves, and it's very, very difficult, and I think they appreciate that.
COLLINS: Just a moment ago we were looking at some video of President George Bush, I believe, also playing with his father, which they do quite a bit.
What's it like -- actually, you haven't played with them, have you? I'm wondering what you think of their golfing, as you see it, perhaps, on TV?
VAN NATTA: Yes, no, I did interview George Bush, Sr. for this book and he gave me a terrific interview. The two Bushes just love to be out there together. As any son knows or dad knows, the time you spend out there with your father or your son is just so magical, and it really is for the Bushes. They play what's known as speed golf. It's more important to them to get around the 18 holes in just a couple of hours than what the little numbers on the score cards say. And they have a lot of fun.
George Bush, Sr.'s game has gone in the tank in recent years and he now tees off from the gold tees, the forward tees, and George W. Bush likes to tease his dad and say, "Don't trip over your skirt, Betsy, before you hit the next one."
COLLINS: Ooh, that's harsh. They must play best ball, I guess, huh?
VAN NATTA: That is pretty harsh. Yes, sometimes they do. They're always moving out there. They play very quickly.
COLLINS: All right, Don Van Natta, author of "First Off the Tee," a great book.
Thanks so much for being with us this morning.
We appreciate your time.
VAN NATTA: Thank you, Heidi.
I enjoyed it a lot.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 19, 2003 - 07:40 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Davis Love, III is the leader going into the third round of the British Open. Now, he tees off in a few hours as the only player under par, believe it or not. Tiger Woods, Vijay Singh and defending champ Ernie Els are all at least four shots back.
And for millions of hackers across the globe, the game of golf is much more than just playing in the grass. But how you play the game can be a surprising clue into your true nature.
Don Van Natta is an investigative reporter for the "New York Times" and he has studied the games of our golfing presidents. Tough gig you got there, Don. His book is "First Off the Tee" and he joins us from our London bureau this morning.
Thanks so much for being with us, Don.
DON VAN NATTA, "NEW YORK TIMES": Good morning, Heidi.
COLLINS: I'm interested to know in your book, what exactly was surprising to you about the golf game and the presidents themselves, particularly on the issue of character?
VAN NATTA: What surprised me is how often these presidents reveal themselves and their style of leadership on the golf course. Because they let their guards down and leave the press and public behind on the first tee and we don't see them again until the 18th green, they're really themselves out there. And I was really surprised, almost to a man, how often presidential leadership was reflected on the golf course.
COLLINS: Give us some examples. What were some of your most surprising findings about particular presidents?
VAN NATTA: Well, William Howard Taft, the first presidential golfer, really, the symbol of his ambivalence about being president was really seen on the golf course. He would rather be golfing than governing. He often snuck out of the White House to play 18 holes at Chevy Chase Club outside Washington, D.C. He one time had a meeting with a diplomat, a Chilean diplomat, and he said I'll be damned if I'm going to give up my golf game to see this fellow.
So Taft, it really was reflected with Taft. And with many of them. John F. Kennedy, for instance, the best of all the presidential golfers, he kept his game in the closet and a secret. Of course, he had many secrets, golf being just one of them, but he was worried about being seen as another duffer in chief like Dwight Eisenhower so he kept his game a secret from the American people.
COLLINS: Probably a good idea on his part.
VAN NATTA: Right.
COLLINS: Now, I know you tried to play golf, or at least some rounds, with as many presidents as possible. But Clinton was the only one who took you up on it.
What was that like?
VAN NATTA: Oh, it was a great time. We played last summer at a course near his house in Chappaqua, New York. He knew I was there basically to see whether all the rumors and reports about his cheating on the golf course were true. And he was on his best behavior with me for about a hole and a half. In fact, on the second fairway he asked when his ball landed in a puddle near a sprinkler head, what the ruling on that was, just to show what a meticulous rule follower he was.
But after that, it was like a switch had been thrown and it was all downhill. He took three or three shots off the fairway, a couple of shots off the tee. He took a couple of chip shots around the green. I saw two or three no putt pars that day. At the end of the day he had an 82 on his score card, but it took him 200 swings to get there.
COLLINS: Now, after only a hole and a half? Eighteen holes he was playing? How many holes did you play?
VAN NATTA: We played 18 holes. It was on the second fairway that he was sort of showing me that he follows the rules and after that is when he let his guard down and he took quite a few Mulligans the rest of the afternoon.
COLLINS: I also want to ask you a question about something that you write in your book. You say that, "Golf draws presidents because the game says no."
What do you mean by that?
VAN NATTA: Well, I think it's the game's uncompromising difficulty that really appeals to the American presidents. Just about everybody in their personal lives says yes to them and bends over backwards to do things for them. And I think they really like the fact that on a golf course they're on their own. You know, no strategist can blast out of a sand trap for them. There's no presidential aide that can sink that tough eight foot putt for them. They're on their own and they can do it themselves, and it's very, very difficult, and I think they appreciate that.
COLLINS: Just a moment ago we were looking at some video of President George Bush, I believe, also playing with his father, which they do quite a bit.
What's it like -- actually, you haven't played with them, have you? I'm wondering what you think of their golfing, as you see it, perhaps, on TV?
VAN NATTA: Yes, no, I did interview George Bush, Sr. for this book and he gave me a terrific interview. The two Bushes just love to be out there together. As any son knows or dad knows, the time you spend out there with your father or your son is just so magical, and it really is for the Bushes. They play what's known as speed golf. It's more important to them to get around the 18 holes in just a couple of hours than what the little numbers on the score cards say. And they have a lot of fun.
George Bush, Sr.'s game has gone in the tank in recent years and he now tees off from the gold tees, the forward tees, and George W. Bush likes to tease his dad and say, "Don't trip over your skirt, Betsy, before you hit the next one."
COLLINS: Ooh, that's harsh. They must play best ball, I guess, huh?
VAN NATTA: That is pretty harsh. Yes, sometimes they do. They're always moving out there. They play very quickly.
COLLINS: All right, Don Van Natta, author of "First Off the Tee," a great book.
Thanks so much for being with us this morning.
We appreciate your time.
VAN NATTA: Thank you, Heidi.
I enjoyed it a lot.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
