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Patrick Dennehy Missing, Feared Dead; What's New With the Royals?

Aired July 24, 2003 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, the parents and girlfriend of the missing Baylor University player speak out. Patrick Dennehy's friend and former teammate is charged with his murder. But a month after Patrick disappeared, police have no -- still found no body, no murder weapon, not even a scene of the crime. We'll talk about the agony and the uncertainty with Patrick's parents, Valerie and Brian Brabazon; his girlfriend, Jessica De La Rosa, and his friend, Daniel Okopnyi.
Plus, speaking for the accused, Carlton Dotson's attorney, Grady Irvin.

And then, Camilla Parker Bowles just turned 56. What special plans did Prince Charles make for her birthday? Is Prince William having a long distance love affair despite palace denials? And James Hewitt's causing again stir with royal watchers everywhere. The latest royal scoop with our panel of experts in London, Robert Lacey, author of bestsellers like "Monarch": Dick Arbiter, the former press secretary to her majesty the queen; Hugo Vickers, another best-selling royals biographer; and Harold Brooks-Baker, director of Burke's Peerage.

They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

We start in Waco, Texas where present are Valerie and Brian Brabazon. They are the parents of Patrick Dennehy, the missing young man. Jessica De La Rosa is also with us in Waco. She is his girlfriend, she's also an athlete, by the way, attending the University of New Mexico. And Daniel Okopnyi. Daniel is a friend of Patrick Dennehy.

Valerie, does it -- what do you make of all of this? What -- what -- what can -- what have you -- what conclusions have you come to?

VALERIE BRABAZON, PATRICK DENNEHY'S MOTHER: Well, basically, Larry, the conclusion I came to basically is -- like I say, we haven't given up hope that Patrick is still out there somewhere. I mean, even though Carlton -- they have Carlton right now, but he keeps saying that, no, you know, he didn't make that statement -- you know, saying that he had murdered Patrick. But even if he's stating that, I still know that Carlton knows something. You know, know the whereabouts of Patrick. So I just wish he would come forward to let us know something -- let us where Patrick is, his location.

KING: When was the last time you spoke with your son? V. BRABAZON: Actually, it was probably around May 26 or the 27th that I talked to him.

KING: Was he concerned about anything?

V. BRABAZON: Actually, our last conversation was dealing with him. He was telling me about -- he was getting ready to go to summer school and that he was going to be moving out of his apartment into a house with his roommate. And he was just asking me about getting him, like, a 32-inch television and, you know, and a PlayStation and, you know, stuff like that. And I told him I would check with his dad just to see, you know, if we can do that for him.

And basically after that, I kind of like turned the phone over to his sister, and he was telling his sister about his two pitbull dogs that he just received. So he seemed like he was fine, like he wasn't worried about anything, you know -- and, you know, when we said goodbye, you know, we always tell Patrick we love him, and that was the last, you know, we heard from him.

KING: Brian, was he happy at -- at Baylor?

BRIAN BRABAZON, PATRICK DENNEHY'S STEPFATHER: He was excited to be at Baylor. He couldn't wait to play basketball. He's going to a great school. And it's in the Big 12, which is probably the best basketball conference in the United States. And he knew that he was going to stack up very well against any player on any team in the Big 12.

Baylor was going to go -- is going to go to the Final Four this year with Patrick's help.

KING: Was -- he was a transfer student, right?


KING: From what school?

B. BRABAZON: University of New Mexico

KING: And Jessica De La Rosa, as his girlfiend, is that where you met him? At New Mexico?


KING: And when was the last time you spoke with him, Jessica?

DE LA ROSA: I spoke with him late in the evening of June 11.

KING: Did he tell -- did he seem troubled by anything? Worried?

DE LA ROSA: Well, we had spoken a couple of times earlier that day. So he was just kind of winding down in his day. He told me he had to go. I think he just had to take care of the puppies. And he told me he'd call me probably the next day. KING: But did the -- he had no sense of any trouble brewing?

DE LA ROSA: Well, in our previous conversations, probably the entire week before, there was all these different things that were going on, all these personal issues that he was having and Carlton was too. And it was just -- I couldn't believe it. Whenever he was telling me these things, I couldn't believe it. And I was getting -- they were making me nervous. And they were making me angry and scared as well.

KING: Issues between him and Carlton?

DE LA ROSA: No, not between them. But it did concern both of them.

KING: Can you tell us what they were?

DE LA ROSA: No, I mean, I haven't really talked about that.

KING: All right. Daniel, when was the last time you spoke to your friend?

DANIEL OKOPNYI, FRIEND OF PATRICK DENNEHY: Last time I spoke to him was on the 14th of June.

KING: Did he seem troubled, worried about anything?

OKOPNYI: Very paranoid -- was talking about problems and threats. And I told him to come out and stay with me at my house in Arlington because of all the things that were going on. And it really worried me. And he said he was on his way that day.

KING: That's Arlington, Texas?

OKOPNYI: About an hour away from Waco.

KING: Yes. Threats about what, Daniel? Paranoid about what?

OKOPNYI: He was paranoid because of one player, a new recruit by the name of Harvey Thomas -- and other individuals making threats. And he wouldn't tell me the details. He wanted to see me face to face. He didn't want to talk over the phone. And that's just how we were -- when important things arose. And just wanted to share this personally with me and I never got that chance.

KING: Can you figure, Valerie, why on Earth teammates would make threats against him or why he would be fearful?

V. BRABAZON: I don't know why any teammate would make a threat against Patrick. Like I said, Patrick is a very well liked person. He's very respectful. He always -- as for as Carlton, as far as I know, they said they was best friends. I know he was by Carlton's side when he was going through his problems and issues and always checked up on him. And he's like that with anyone. He's going to make that sure you're OK. So I don't see -- you know, I don't see anyone on the team that would be, you know, upset with Patrick or mad about him with anything.

KING: Brian, do you know Carlton Dotson?

B. BRABAZON: I've only spoken with Carlton Dotson twice on the phone and he seemed like a nice young man to me. And I don't have nothing bad to say about him. He was respectful. And the second time I talked to him, he did seem like he was worried about things going on here in Waco and he only wished that we could meet in person so he could tell me the whole story. And I didn't -- I tried to pry things out of him, but he just wouldn't tell me what I wanted to hear.

KING: In other words, the mystery gets curiouser and curiouser.


KING: Yes. And what do you make of the fact that he supposedly confessed and then he says he didn't confess and now he's under arrest, and no bail? What do you make of that, Brian?

B. BRABAZON: I think Carlton is hurting emotionally and he probably is mentally exhausted from just the things that he's saying.

I hope and pray that he didn't shoot and kill our son. But if that is the case, you know, justice will be served. But that's only one end of the story. There's another whole side of why Patrick had to go out and buy weapons. What was making him so scared?

KING: That's right. And also...

B. BRABAZON: And why was Carlton so....

KING: And you've had complaints -- we'll ask about that in a moment -- about the university itself.

As we got break, there were 911 calls that Dotson made to Maryland authorities. This was on Sunday, July 20. These have been edited. These county -- Kent County Attorney Susan Hineman says the calls have been edited to remove sections during which Dotson or the dispatchers discuss medical or psychological conditions. As we go to break, here's that 911 tape.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kent Count 911, do you have an emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir -- I mean, yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you at now?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you inside or outside or... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm inside right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Do you want to meet the officer outside?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Right in front of the store?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What's your name?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Carlton Dotson. I would like to -- I would like to -- I would to like to leave the Dorchester County Police know that I'm...


KING: Now Valerie, what clearly are you saying that the university did wrong?

V. BRABAZON: Well, as far as me, like I said, when you send your kid off to college like that, a lot of parents send their kids far away to school. And I feel that they should actually watch over, you know, each and every kid that's there. And if a kid don't show up for a certain thing for a couple of days, I think they should notify the parents to let them know they haven't seen their kid, or if they came to them with a, kind of a serious problem, I think they should notify the parents to let them know. Hey, your kid came to me with this, you know. Maybe the parent could intervene. But in this case, I know they didn't call and contact us, let us know what was going on.

KING: Jessica, are you surprised that the university didn't do more than they did?

DE LA ROSA: I am very surprised. Because in basketball, any division I program, they keep close tabs on these guys all of the time. And even my coaches, I mean, my coaches have maybe 100-plus athletes. And if somebody didn't show up for practice one day, you better believe that they're asking where they are and after practice is over, they're in there calling. If nobody saw them that day or something. They're in there calling, you know, parents or whatever. My coaches do that and they have so many more athletes to take care of.

You know, his coaches, they know me. They've known me since the moment that they started recruiting Patrick. They have my phone number. We've talked on my phone. Patrick and I shared that number whenever they were recruiting him. I'm know I'm down as Patrick's contact and emergency number. So they have my number and they never called me. I'm the one who called them. KING: Brian, frankly, do you fear the worst here?

B. BRABAZON: No, I'm not going to say that Larry. I feel bad, but I don't feel for the worst. I'm sure trick's still out there and he's alive and we're going to have a happy homecoming.

KING: We all hope that. If that's true, Daniel, where is he?

OKOPNYI: I've been talking about that a lot with Jessica and the family. There's too many scenarios that could have happened, but one thing we know is that he's not deceased.

KING: You know that in your heart?


KING: What do you feel, Valerie?

V. BRABAZON: I feel the same thing in my heart, that my son is still alive. But I know that, like I said, I know Carlton knows his whereabouts. And I just want him to let us know where he is. I know he knows something and I just want him to let us know. So we can bring our son home.

KING: Let me include a call here in our remaining moments of this panel of people who have so kindly contributed to this show tonight. Athens, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Hi. My question is, I was just wondering if the family felt that if there's any indication this is drug related?

KING: Brian?

B. BRABAZON: You know, it's all speculation. I don't believe our son was involved in drugs. And if it has anything to do with drugs, he was pulled into it by somebody else. He wouldn't knowingly walk into a situation that would be dangerous like that for him.

KING: Jessica, do you have any knowledge in that regard?

DE LA ROSA: Well, I can tell you, this is not related to that in any respect. And like Brian said, that's just part of the speculation right now. Obviously we know a whole lot more than the media knows. You all do know an awful lot. It's not related like that.

KING: You believe your boyfriend is alive?

DE LA ROSA: Yes. I believe that he's out there somewhere. We've got to find him. I mean, if they've intensely searched these places several times and he's not there. Well, you know, he's got to be out there somewhere.

KING: Got to be somewhere.

DE LA ROSA: And I mean, even if he looks -- well I mean, if he looks different or something, I mean, he's tall. And he has definitive eyes, I think. His eyes aren't going to change, and his height isn't going to change. I think we can find him somehow.

KING: One more call, Chicago hello.

CALLER: Hello.


CALLER: Hi. My question is, basically I think Patrick's mom had indicated that the dogs were a gift. I'm just wondering, were they a gift or were these dogs Patrick bought himself, and if so -- usually when people purchase pitbulls it's strictly for protection. I know living in the inner city here in Chicago that's what it's for. And I've known many drug dealers that acquire these dogs.

KING: Valerie, why did he get pitbulls?

V. BRABAZON: Basically, I really don't know. I mean, his girlfriend have to answer that. Because it was their dogs together.

KING: Jessica?

DE LA ROSA: Well, Patrick had been talking about getting a dog for --God, probably a year and a half and I was trying to talk him out of it for so long and it changed. He wanted a lab, he wanted pitbulls, he wanted a husky. So it was just Patrick's -- he finally did it.

KING: Nothing to do with protection?

DE LA ROSA: Nothing to do with -- I mean they're funny dogs. I have them with me right now. Yes, they're puppies. They're funny, they roll around, they play, they don't hurt anybody, you know, they're sweet. They are the sweetest dogs in the world.

KING: Our prayers are with all of you. We're going to stay on top of this. And when we come back, we're going to meet the attorney for Mr. Dotson also two of our legal experts.

Our prayers are with all of you, and let's hope Patrick Dennehy is alive and safe somewhere. We'll be right back.


KING: From Orlando, Florida, we welcome attorney Grady Irvin. He's the attorney for Carlton Dotson. Dotson is in custody in Maryland charged by authorities in the murder of his teammate.

Did he -- did he -- did your client confess?

GRADY IRVIN, CARLTON DOTSON'S ATTORNEY: Larry, let me first of all say that my prayers go out to the family of Patrick Dennehy. I pray for them, and I'm hopeful that this has a safe outcome and an outcome that we all can deal with.

I'm not aware -- now to your question -- I'm not aware of any confession that was made on behalf of my client to law enforcement authorities.

KING: Then why is he being held without bail and charged with murder?

IRVIN: Well, one of the things I think we have right here -- you saw his family this evening talk about the fact that they still hold out hope that Patrick is alive. I share that very same hope. And I'm sure that those who are close to this situation have that same hope.

I think that what happened was on Sunday, Carlton continued to exhibit very, very bizarre behavior, which his parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents had reported that he'd been exhibiting. He had been walking from one room to another room with a Bible openface, saying prayers in each of those rooms. I think with the 911 tape that you played a portion of, which, oddly, law enforcement authorities have only released certain portions of it. And I don't know why they even released that portion -- he made a cry for help. He asked for medical attention. He asked for attention. And how this turned from a cry for medical attention and a mental health evaluation turned into a police interrogation is beyond me, Larry, and it's very, very disturbing.

KING: So what do you make of this whole thing, Grady? What to you is the story here?

IRVIN: Well, Larry, what I saw was I saw the press conference of the Waco Police Department. I looked at that press conference. I watched that every second of that press conference. And in that press conference, they were very, very vague and there was quite a lot of ambiguity there with respect to why Carlton Dotson was eventually arrested. They didn't go into any specifics about what Carlton supposedly said to them.

When a person makes a cry for 911 help, and they're asking for medical attention, you send out an ambulance. You send out a MediVac. You don't send out law enforcement authorities. What they were able to secure in the state of Texas, which is somewhat disturbing to me, they were able to get a judge to sign a warrant for his arrest.

Now, we are going to take a look at that and that is why we are fighting extradition at this time.

KING: So you don't want him to leave Maryland?

IRVIN: I don't think that he should have to leave Maryland because I think, Larry, what you've got to do first of all is how did we get to this point? We got to this point by law enforcement authorities having admitted openly, who were first there on the scene, to say that Carlton said that he was hearing voices.

He was asking for psychiatric attention. He was asking for medical attention. That was his condition. And when a person is in that state of mind, they are not competent. They're not lucid. So how could he have made knowingly any type of confession is very disturbing and it's beyond me. And I don't think there was a confession made. And so we've got to stay in the state of Maryland because there's no reason for Carlton Dotson to go to Texas at this time.

KING: How cooperative a client is he?

IRVIN: Cooperative with respect to whom? Law enforcement authorities or me?

KING: To you. For you.

IRVIN: I have a very good relationship with my client. I spoke with him this evening. I spoke with him on yesterday. I spoke with him again several days prior to that.

In dealing with professional athletes or college athletes, Larry, which is a major part of my practice in the criminal law setting, I find out these athletes sometimes do things that you don't want them to do, but sometimes you just have to deal with it. That's the nature of the business.

But in this particular case, I can assure you, Larry, and I can assure the Dennehy family, I know of no criminal wrongdoing on the part of my client. None whatsoever.

KING: We're going to be joined now by, Grady, by two of our regulars. Grady, stay with us. Nancy Grace, the anchor of "Closing Arguments" on Court TV, the former prosecutor. She's in Sarasota tonight.

And defense attorney Chris Pixley in Atlanta.

Grady Irvin will remain with us in our remaining moments in this half hour.

Nancy Grace, what do you make of this?

NANCY GRACE, COURT TV ANCHOR: Well, I understand where the attorney is coming from, the attorney that is representing Mr. Dotson.

However, from the wires that we have read and the research that we have done, we realize that his client, Mr. Dotson, has spoken not only with Maryland local police, with the FBI, but an informant has told police that Mr. Dotson told a cousin that he shot Dennehy. He got rid of the guns and drove home.

Not only that, according to these reports, he was the last one seen with Dennehy and he was seen riding around in Dennehy's SUV without Dennehy. Now you put all that together, and that does make him a logical suspect. In light of that, an alleged confession.

KING: But wasn't he supposed to have told them where the body was, and the body wasn't there? What was that all about, Nancy?

GRACE: Apparently, he has given them a general area of where the body may be. It ranges from near a river to a gravel pit.

And I would also like to point out that according to sources in the wires, he spoke to Maryland authorities without the knowledge or consent of his lawyers. So right now, we don't know what he told police, but police have firmly stated that he has given specific information that led to him being charged with murder.

KING: Chris Pixley, before Grady comments on what Nancy said, what's your read?

CHRIS PIXLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the last part of what Nancy had to say is what's most interesting to me. You know, the circumstances surrounding the alleged confession of Carlton Dotson are a bit disturbing.

Remember, whether or not this man was Mirandized, whether or not he actually gave up his right to counsel and confessed to the authorities, the fact of the matter is this confession didn't occur at police headquarters. He was hospitalized, and he was hospitalized not for a physical injury that he had, Larry. He was hospitalized for a mental health problem. He was hearing voices inside his head.

So there are a lot of questions that I have as to whether or not he was legally competent to waive his right to an attorney at the time that he gave an alleged confession, even if there is one. And I know that Grady's suggested here that there may not be.

You know, the other reality is, Nancy has mentioned a number of the facts that have been reported by the AP, but it's also been reported in the week leading up to Patrick's disappearance, that he and Carlton both feared for their safety because they were being threatened. They purchased handguns for their own protection. Apparently Patrick's SUV had been broken into that week. So there certainly seems to be an alternative explanation other than our good friend Carlton being responsible.

KING: Grady, you will admit this is really curious.

IRVIN: Larry, I think it's the most bizarre and curious situation that we will probably ever see in collegiate athletics or involving collegiate athletes.

I think Nancy has touched on some matters which I expect her to touch upon as a former prosecutor. There is a tremendous amount of hearsay which is going about. This is all a mystery. I know prosecutors would like to have a body, if in fact there is a body.

You know, I hold out hope that there is not a body there.

KING: Sure.

IRVIN: And she's right, apparently there are statements which are being attributed to my client which he made without the presence of counsel. And I think that Nancy would be the first to tell you, that's very odd, that's very bizarre, for a person to do that. And I think that is consistent with a person who is not in their right state of mind.

KING: Nancy, do you think we're going to find out the whole story? GRACE: I know one thing, Larry. I know who is very, very close to his father. And on Father's Day, his father waited for a phone call that never came.

I find that very significant. And as far as the extradition proceeding coming up, I have handled extradition matters, and I think he will be extradited back to Texas. That's probably the only hope in ever finding Dennehy.

KING: Thank you all very much. We expect to do a lot more on this and hope that Mr. Dennehy is among us. Grady Irvin, the attorney for the accused, Carlton Dotson; Nancy Grace, the former prosecutor, and Chris Pixley, the defense attorney.

And when we come back, we'll go across the ocean eastways and cross the lake -- cross the pond and get the latest on the royals.

Don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also let the Dorchester County Police know that I'm...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Are you wanted by them or something?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you say?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you wanted by them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm not wanted by them but I -- I mean, they want to keep close tabs on me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Do you know the phone number that you're calling from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my cell phone number.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Do you know it -- calling from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my cell phone number.



KING: The royals are never away from us, are they. Let's get into the latest with Robert Lacey -- they're all in London. Robert Lacey the best-selling author, veteran royal watcher. His book, "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II," is out now in trade paperback. Also there, Dickie Arbiter, the former spokesperson for Buckingham Palace, press officer for the queen and Prince and Princess of Wales. Hugo Vickers is the best-selling biographer and veteran royal watcher. His biography of Prince Philip's mother, "Alice: Princess Andrew of Greece," is out in paperback in the United States. And Harold Brooks-Baker is the publishing director of "Burke's Peerage."

Britain's Channel 4 tonight aired a documentary causing more controversy over the relationship between Princess Di and her former lover, James Hewitt, a recent guest on this show. It's called "James Hewitt: Confessions of a Tad." (sic) In the clip we're going to show you now, Hewitt is asked whether or not he thought Prince Charles knew about his affair with Princess Diana. Watch.


JAMES HEWITT, PRINCESS DIANA'S LOVER, 1986-'91: I think he'd probably be grateful that someone was looking after his wife when he was shagging Camilla Parker-Bowles. Don't you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a lot of speculation that you fathered Harry.

HEWITT: Bollocks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you say to people that think you're his father?

HEWITT: Bollocks.


KING: OK, Robert Lacey, what do you make of all of this?

ROBERT LACEY, AUTHOR, "MONARCH": Well, I mean, I think the first thing it shows is that Diana had incredibly bad taste in men. I mean, that's the ultimate importance of Hewitt, the fact that the most glamorous, fascinating woman in the world for five years on and off had a relationship, a very close relationship, with this man. And that clip we've just seen I think shows what was wrong with him. I mean, on this vexed, intimate question of whether he was Harry's father -- it is well known that the relationship didn't start until after Harry was born. So why didn't he just say that? Why did he use this vulgarity, "Bollocks," which means "testicles" in English, to actually stir up interest in what is basically a commercial exercise, trying to sell personal love letters?

KING: By the way, the program is called "Confessions of a Cad." I said "Tad." It's "Confessions of a Cad."

Dickie Arbiter, what do you make of the flippant manner in which he reacted to Prince Charles's knowledge of the affair?

DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO THE QUEEN: Well, I think it just shows the arrogance of the man. And it did come out right the way through the documentary. I mean, you know, the documentary, it started with a few clips, one of him having a bath. I mean, he really did look like a beached whale, with all due respect to a beached whale.

(LAUGHTER) ARBITER: It also showed him peeing into a toilet, which is pretty rotten television. It showed his kitchen that seemed to be on the work surface littered with booze bottles, the majority of which were whiskey. So we know where he's coming from. And it was just arrogance all the way through. And this was summed up right at the end in a 24-hour news bulletin here in London by one of his friends coming on saying he'd been stitched up. Well, if anybody had stitched himself up, he had done it all by himself, with no help from anybody because of his language, his arrogance. The whole thing was tawdry. I mean, you know, to just take it one further from Robert Lacey, if I might be as bold to say, it really was crap TV.

KING: Before we ask Hugo and Harold their opinion, I'm going to play another clip from it -- again, from "Confessions of a Cad." Here Hewitt is asked about those now famous love letters with Diana. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you feel if it happened to you? If someone sold your letters?

HEWITT: I'm not going to discuss it.


HEWITT: It's not my issue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it is an issue. It's part of...

HEWITT: It's not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... what you've been doing the last six months. I'm was just -- curious if...

HEWITT: Part it's part of what I've been doing the last six months -- is what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you've been -- the letters have been for sale for six months.

HEWITT: And what have I been doing for six months?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For six months...

HEWITT: I'm not going to have this discussion.


KING: He told us on this program, Hugo, that he would maybe sell them. He didn't definitely say he would sell them. What do you make of all this, Hugo Vickers?

HUGO VICKERS, AUTHOR, "ALICE: PRINCESS ANDREW OF GREECE": Well, I'm afraid I've said it before. I've said, What can you expect from a pig, except a grunt? And that is basically all we got. And of course he'll sell the letters, if he gets a good enough price. And he's got a guy working for him, helping him to do this. I suspect he'll have very little success in getting what he considers to be a reasonable figure because, fundamentally, we pretty much know what's in the letters now. He's carted them around the world. And they've -- we saw a few little snips tonight. And I feel we've read quite a lot of them in Anna Pasternak's (ph) book. I mean, it seems to me there's really very little more to be said. And I just wish he'd go away quietly, frankly.

KING: Harold, the tabloids are calling him a cad, a rat, a slimeball, a disgrace and a snake. Do you share those views?

HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, PUB. DIR., "BURKE'S PEERAGE": Well, I think it's perfectly obvious that Hewitt -- I saw the television program this evening, and there's no question whatsoever that he's a very unattractive character. But at the same time, he appears to be very hard up right now, and he's trying to make a few pennies on the back of a poor, defenseless woman who has been dead for years. The Princess of Wales was the most loved woman in the world, but she is certainly not responsible for what Hewitt says today. She may have made a mistake, but after all, that was a long time ago.

KING: Harold, would you join Robert Lacey's opinion that she chose poorly here in men?

BROOKS-BAKER: I think the Princess of Wales did not understand that her marriage was a semi-arranged one. Some people would say completely arranged. And she didn't know how to live by the rules that the royal family had set for hundreds of years for a marriage to the heir to the throne. And that's about all there is to it. It's sad.

KING: Yes.

BROOKS-BAKER: It's pathetic. But everyone makes mistakes.

ARBITER: Larry, if I could come in here? Dickie Arbiter here. You know, you go back to the letters, and one point that should be made, he's tried to flog these letters. Quite frankly, he can't. He owns the bits of paper that they're written on. He doesn't actually own the words that are written in the letters. So it would be very difficult for anybody, any purchaser, to actually do anything with those letters.

KING: The writer owns the words, and the writer is deceased. We're going to take a break and come back and talk about Camilla being -- celebrating her birthday and what's happening between her and Charles. We'll include some phone calls, as well, with our distinguished panel. Don't go away.


KING: Do you ever say to yourself, This is a princess, she's married to what could be the next king, I'm stepping into trouble?

BROOKS-BAKER: Yes, I did. But I think what was foremost in my mind was the fact that she was a lonely, unloved woman who needed company and friendship and love at a very important time in her life. And rightly or wrongly, I was there to provide that, as well.

KING: Did you love her?

BROOKS-BAKER: Yes, very much.


KING: All right, Robert Lacey, Camilla is -- what is she, 56 years old now? What's happening there?

LACEY: Well, the lady's been kissed this week by a member of the general public. Quite a surprise, when you think that, what was it, 10 years ago, she was being pelted with bread rolls when she walked into her local supermarket. I suppose the most interesting thing, perhaps for some people, is the fact that Clarence House, the queen mother's old home, is opening up in a few days' time. And of course, Camilla has an apartment there. It's not been revealed whether the public, when they're shown 'round, will see Camilla's bedroom, which has been paid for by Prince Charles and not by the public, but I doubt it somehow.

KING: Dickie, are they going to marry? And is the public going to accept it?

ARBITER: Well, in answer to question one, I wouldn't hold your breath about them getting married. Quite frankly, there's no need for them to get married. They're not going to have children. And here people say, Well, what happens when they comes to the throne? And that's a long way off because the queen is hale and hearty, and like her mother, she could go on for another 20, 25 years. What was the other question?

KING: Would the public accept it if they did get married?

ARBITER: Well, you know -- sorry about that, Larry. The thing is that if they got married now, what do you call her? Because he is the Prince of Wales, and I don't think the public are too ready just yet for another Princess of Wales, while the memory of Diana is still very fresh in everybody's minds. So that is one of the stumbling blocks. And quite frankly, people have been saying, Well, why don't we think of another title? He hasn't got another title. They're all secondary titles. He is the Prince of Wales, and right now, there's no way that she can be the Princess of Wales. So marriage? No.

KING: Hugo, what changed her public image? Why is she now accepted and, indeed, liked?

VICKERS: Well, she's accepted much more because people have got used to seeing her with the Prince of Wales. And I think probably people feel that she -- I mean, certainly, she's his best friend. She makes him happy. He looks, to some extent, a more contented person. But there are still an awful lot of problems in connection with this. Some of these problems were raised last week, when the Fabian Society, a left-wing group, introduced various proposals, one of which was the abolition of the Royal Marriages Act, and also removing the sovereign from being the head of the Church of England.

These things were seen to be, perceived to be possible sort of routes towards some future marriage, perhaps, between the prince and Camilla. But he's in a little bit of a no-win situation, I think, because it is, I suppose, technically an irregular relationship. On the other hand, it's very difficult if he decides he wants to marry her. I don't quite know what he's going to do, so probably -- as Dickie says, he'll probably do nothing at all.

KING: And Harold, what are your thoughts on the...


KING: Harold, your thoughts on Camilla and the prince?

BROOKS-BAKER: I think that the PR program for Camilla Parker- Bowles has been brilliant. She is known to have no enemies. She's known to not ever step on somebody else's foot. And she has come through with flying colors. She is accepted by many and loved by even more. She'll never be the glamorous person that the late Princess of Wales was, but she will certainly be liked and she has a very cozy side to her.

I also have always felt that they will eventually get married because it's difficult for the Prince of Wales to always have no one sitting next to him who he's married to at important dinners or when he meets ambassadors. He will probably even be called on to open Parliament in the future. These are things the Prince of Wales has got to do, and he needs a wife by his side. There is no place today in modern society for an official mistress. This is not at all the rule of Louis XIV.

ARBITER: You know, Larry, we have a very interesting scenario here, you know, because the republican movement in this country talk about reforming the monarchy. And on the one hand, you've got Harold saying, Well, they will get married. On the other hand, you've got about reforming the monarchy. Now, a lot of people live with each other today and they don't get married. So why shouldn't the Prince of Wales do that? And I think there's a vast difference between the British public accepting her as his partner -- because they are very fond of each other and they're good for each other -- and actually liking her. And I think if you did a straw poll, you'd probably find people will accept. Liking is a different matter altogether.

KING: All right, let me get a call in. Birmingham, Alabama. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.


CALLER: I'd like to ask, when William becomes king, will he be able to restore Diana's royal title?

KING: Who knows? Mr. Lacey, do you know the answer? LACEY: Well, I suppose, technically, he can. The question of the royal title you're referring to is, of course, these letters, "HRH," which, in the opinion of many, should never have been taken away from her. It was essentially in the discretion of the sovereign, the queen, that they were taken away. And so, theoretically, William could put them back. I don't think, though, that he will. William has a great respect for precedent and for his grandmother in, particular.

KING: Syracuse, New York. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. Thank you for taking my call.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: My question is, has the British government finished its inquiry into the death of the Princess of Wales?

KING: Have they, Hugo?

VICKERS: Well, there was some talk about an inquest, but I don't know what happened about all that, actually. I have a feeling, though, that there's nothing very much new to come out about all these things. We pretty much know what happened, and I think that we must now move on. But to be honest, I don't know the actual answer to that question.

And on the question of the HRH, I would go a step further. I always understood that the Princess of Wales was slightly inclined to change her mind about things. What she -- she was asked whether she wanted to surrender the title, and she said she'd be perfectly happy to do so. So then it was taken away from her, if you like, and as soon as it was taken away, she said, Oh, they've taken it away from me. That's what I understood happened.


KING: We'll take a break, and we'll be back with some more calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.


KING: We're back with our panel -- the latest dish on the royals.

We go to Miami. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry.


CALLER: I'm a big fan of Robert Lacey's. He really writes interestingly about royalty. My question for him is, it is presumed that the queen will stay on the throne until her demise. If Charles were to marry Camilla at any time, would that diminish his chance to succeed his mother on the throne? KING: Robert?

LACEY: No, it would not, at all. I mean, obviously any marriage between Charles and Camilla would be with the blessing of the queen. But I mean, you do raise a good point there. It's quite possible that Charles will be outlived by his mother and that our next king will, in fact, be William IV -- or William V.

KING: Harold, what do you make of the fact that it's been that reported William plans to spend the August holidays in Kenya, rather than with the other royals at Balmoral?

BROOKS-BAKER: I think it only means that the young fellow has a very great sense that the future lies in a newly revitalized Africa. And as you know, he intends to study Swahili. He's already started, I gather. And he would like to make a name for himself as a royal prince-in-waiting for a throne that may not come to him for 50 years. And unlike many of his predecessors, he is a very, very hard worker, exactly the opposite of the late Duke of Windsor, who really did not distinguish himself. This young man has distinguished himself already, and he is very young. But it's a long wait for the throne.

KING: Montreal, Canada. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.


CALLER: I just wanted to ask you, what did Diana see in James Hewitt? He's so boring and disgusting.


KING: Dickie, what do you think she saw in him?

ARBITER: Well, I think what she saw in him -- he -- I suppose he was a reasonably nice guy in the early days. He was, to what we would say here, an officer and a gentleman. You know, if you remember the film with Richard Gere, he went into the army -- into the academy very rough, but he became an officer and a gentleman. James Hewitt was an officer and a gentleman and has ceased to be so.

And I think she saw him, he flattered her. She was going through a tough time in her marriage and you know, there was somebody there on the rebound, and she just took a fancy to him and was a prolific writer, as we well know. And I remember going with her on one occasion to the forces post office in north London, where the mail gets sent out to the forces, wherever they are. And on this particular instance, it was the first Gulf war. And she was very keen to see how the whole operation worked. She did have a vested interest, obviously.

KING: Yes. Huntsville, Alabama. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. I would like to know what the boys, William and Harry, think of Camilla. KING: Hugo, what do they think of her?

VICKERS: As far as I know, they are happy that their father has a companion who makes him happy. I think that's really what it is. I don't think that they see her particularly as a threat to the memory of their mother or anything like that. And as far as one can tell, her occasional appearances at royal birthday parties -- for example, Prince William's -- are very much done with his approval. So I guess they presumably quite like her.

KING: Pittsburgh. Hello.

CALLER: Yes. My question, Larry, is how can a non-royal live in royal quarters?

KING: All right. Harold, do you know?

BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think it's up to the queen to decide who is going to live in Clarence House or any other building near Buckingham Palace. It's also up to the Prince of Wales where he wishes to put various people associated with his entourage. And it is perfectly obvious that many of the people the royal family has married in the last few years have not been born royal, and therefore, there's nothing unusual about it at all. Clarence House, after all, wasn't always lived in by the late queen mother. It's been lived in by many different people over the centuries, just as all the other palaces have.

KING: Amherst, New York. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Mr. King.


CALLER: I was wondering, because I watch these all the time, your show, and -- when Edward abdicated because of Wallis Simpson being divorced, he couldn't be king. Was that right?

KING: Right.

CALLER: Now, how can Charles marry Camilla? She's divorced.

KING: Robert?

LACEY: Well, that is -- you go there right to the heart of the issue, why there is such controversy over the marriage, because of the links between the Church of England and the royal family and the Church of England's continuing unhappiness about the remarriage of divorced persons. That's what the fuss is about. Ironically, Charles, because his wife is dead, can, in fact, remarry. And were Major Parker-Bowles to die, then Camilla and Charles would be free to marry. But still, public opinion would not be entirely happy.

ARBITER: There's also the other interesting aspect to this. Robert is right about divorce. And I think our feelings today, in the 21st century, are far more lenient... KING: Than they were then.

ARBITER: ... in terms of divorce. But the other point...

KING: I'm running out of time, gentlemen.


KING: Gentlemen, I'm sorry...

ARBITER: She was a foreigner. She was American.

KING: Ah. Correct. She was also American. Thank you all very much -- Robert Lacey, Dickie Arbiter, Hugo Vickers and Harold Brooks- Baker.

I'll be back in a minute to tell you about tomorrow night. Don't go away.


KING: Tomorrow night, our guest is Victoria Gotti -- gossip columnist, novelist. Her father you may have heard of, John Gotti, the late John Gotti. Victoria Gotti is our special guest tomorrow night.



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