Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Today
Road Map to Peace
Aired July 29, 2003 - 11:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon look for ways to advance a so-called road map for peace in a meeting this hour at the White House. Two guests are joining us right now to discuss the Bush-Sharon meeting. Ed Abington is a consultant to the Palestinian Authority, a former U.S. consulate general in Israel, and Matthew Levitt is a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
Gentleman, good morning. Thank you for being with us this morning.
A lot of distrust, of course, on both sides still, and Ed, I'm going to go ahead and start with you. This is a quote that comes from the chief of staff of the Israeli armed forces, saying that he believes he is counting the days until the next wave of violence erupts. He does not just the Palestinians during this cease-fire. He thinks they're just using it as a chance to regroup and commit more violence against Israelis. What do you say to that?
ED ABINGTON, CONSULTANT TO PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: Well, you know when Prime Minister Abbas was here, he said that the longer the cease- fire goes on, the stronger it becomes, because the Palestinian people see that, that peace and quiet is much better than violence, and I think he's counting on the cease-fire continuing beyond the end of September when it's due to expire. Personally, I don't expect that there will be a big outbreak of violence after that. I think both sides have a tremendous stake in trying to keep the current quiet in place.
KAGAN: Matthew, let's bring you in. We just saw a picture of Mahmoud Abbas as he paid a visit last week to the White House. In the next half hour, we will see a similar scene this time Ariel Sharon by the side of President Bush. These are two men who have stood by each other, and yet they are some cracks in their bond and how they see things. No. 1, the fence, the fence that they're referring to, that the Israelis are building that goes into West Bank land. How do you see the fence?
MATTHEW LEVITT, WASHINGTON INST. FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: Well, first thing note that it is a fence. Some people call it a wall. In fact, only seven kilometers are tall enough to be considered a wall.
KAGAN: But it's in the place that Palestinians say it's in their land, and that it shouldn't be there in the first place, whatever kind of structure that it is.
LEVITT: Yes, well what the structure does, is it pretty much mimics the green line. It does go into Palestinian territory in two places, predominantly in the northern West Bank and areas where the Palestinian Authority has to date been incapable of preventing Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists from crossing over into Israel to conduct suicide and other attacks. The Israelis position is that until the Palestinian Authority is willing and/or capable of taking control of those areas, and today certainly in the West Bank, and especially in the northern West Bank, not able to do so, then Israel needs to do what it can to prevent the attacks.
The Israelis I spoke to just last week, when I was in the region, would like nothing more to take down checkpoints and stop construction of the fence, but I have to disagree with the assumption the cease- fire is necessarily going to stop attacks. The Israelis just stopped a double suicide bombing this weekend, and their issue is not necessarily with the Palestinian Authority conducting attacks now, as it was a year and a half ago, it's with the Palestinian Authority failing to appreciate Hamas and Islamic Jihad from regrouping and rearming.
KAGAN: Ed, let's pick up on that point. And the Israelis have been pointing fingers at the Palestinians, at Mahmoud Abbas, in saying you need to contain the terrorism. Mahmoud Abbas, to a certain point, he says his hands are tried. If he tries to crack down too much, he says he is going to lose credibility and any kind power he has in the first place.
ABINGTON: Well, I think it's important to realize that there basically is no Palestinian security presence on the West Bank. The West Bank is under Israeli military occupation. The Israelis go in and out of the cities at will. A Palestinian policeman on the street in uniform with a weapon. He is liable to be arrested, disarmed, or even shot by Israeli soldiers.
So until the Israelis and the Palestinians can work out an arrangement so that the Palestinians can gradually take over security on the West Bank, it's not quite fair to say that they're responsible, then, for what happens.
Having said that, the Palestinians have prevented a number of attacks against Israel within the past three or four weeks, and they are continuing to build their capacity to deal with terrorism.
KAGAN: We just have a few seconds left. I just want to bring in Matthew in real quickly as we preview to see in the next half hour, 45 minutes at rose garden. What do you think we will hear? A lot of people were surprised when President Bush came out last week and criticized the fence. Do you think we will hear equal criticism of Palestinians as he has Ariel Sharon by his side?
LEVITT: Well, the president has concerns with the way both sides are implementing the road map. He thinks both sides can do more, and frankly, they can. The fence is a concern. The fact that terror groups are still rearming is a concern. There is definitely an interest in seeing both the Abu Mazen visit and the Sharon visit being seen as successes. All parties involved want this to work out. The concern moon many, however, is that the cease-fire is actually undermining some of the prospects of the road map in terms of disarming and dismantle terrorist groups.
KAGAN: I think both sides would agree that they're looking for success. I guess the debate becomes in how you achieve that and how you define success.
Gentlemen, Matthew Levitt, Ed Abington,thank you for your input today. Appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 29, 2003 - 11:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon look for ways to advance a so-called road map for peace in a meeting this hour at the White House. Two guests are joining us right now to discuss the Bush-Sharon meeting. Ed Abington is a consultant to the Palestinian Authority, a former U.S. consulate general in Israel, and Matthew Levitt is a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
Gentleman, good morning. Thank you for being with us this morning.
A lot of distrust, of course, on both sides still, and Ed, I'm going to go ahead and start with you. This is a quote that comes from the chief of staff of the Israeli armed forces, saying that he believes he is counting the days until the next wave of violence erupts. He does not just the Palestinians during this cease-fire. He thinks they're just using it as a chance to regroup and commit more violence against Israelis. What do you say to that?
ED ABINGTON, CONSULTANT TO PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: Well, you know when Prime Minister Abbas was here, he said that the longer the cease- fire goes on, the stronger it becomes, because the Palestinian people see that, that peace and quiet is much better than violence, and I think he's counting on the cease-fire continuing beyond the end of September when it's due to expire. Personally, I don't expect that there will be a big outbreak of violence after that. I think both sides have a tremendous stake in trying to keep the current quiet in place.
KAGAN: Matthew, let's bring you in. We just saw a picture of Mahmoud Abbas as he paid a visit last week to the White House. In the next half hour, we will see a similar scene this time Ariel Sharon by the side of President Bush. These are two men who have stood by each other, and yet they are some cracks in their bond and how they see things. No. 1, the fence, the fence that they're referring to, that the Israelis are building that goes into West Bank land. How do you see the fence?
MATTHEW LEVITT, WASHINGTON INST. FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: Well, first thing note that it is a fence. Some people call it a wall. In fact, only seven kilometers are tall enough to be considered a wall.
KAGAN: But it's in the place that Palestinians say it's in their land, and that it shouldn't be there in the first place, whatever kind of structure that it is.
LEVITT: Yes, well what the structure does, is it pretty much mimics the green line. It does go into Palestinian territory in two places, predominantly in the northern West Bank and areas where the Palestinian Authority has to date been incapable of preventing Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists from crossing over into Israel to conduct suicide and other attacks. The Israelis position is that until the Palestinian Authority is willing and/or capable of taking control of those areas, and today certainly in the West Bank, and especially in the northern West Bank, not able to do so, then Israel needs to do what it can to prevent the attacks.
The Israelis I spoke to just last week, when I was in the region, would like nothing more to take down checkpoints and stop construction of the fence, but I have to disagree with the assumption the cease- fire is necessarily going to stop attacks. The Israelis just stopped a double suicide bombing this weekend, and their issue is not necessarily with the Palestinian Authority conducting attacks now, as it was a year and a half ago, it's with the Palestinian Authority failing to appreciate Hamas and Islamic Jihad from regrouping and rearming.
KAGAN: Ed, let's pick up on that point. And the Israelis have been pointing fingers at the Palestinians, at Mahmoud Abbas, in saying you need to contain the terrorism. Mahmoud Abbas, to a certain point, he says his hands are tried. If he tries to crack down too much, he says he is going to lose credibility and any kind power he has in the first place.
ABINGTON: Well, I think it's important to realize that there basically is no Palestinian security presence on the West Bank. The West Bank is under Israeli military occupation. The Israelis go in and out of the cities at will. A Palestinian policeman on the street in uniform with a weapon. He is liable to be arrested, disarmed, or even shot by Israeli soldiers.
So until the Israelis and the Palestinians can work out an arrangement so that the Palestinians can gradually take over security on the West Bank, it's not quite fair to say that they're responsible, then, for what happens.
Having said that, the Palestinians have prevented a number of attacks against Israel within the past three or four weeks, and they are continuing to build their capacity to deal with terrorism.
KAGAN: We just have a few seconds left. I just want to bring in Matthew in real quickly as we preview to see in the next half hour, 45 minutes at rose garden. What do you think we will hear? A lot of people were surprised when President Bush came out last week and criticized the fence. Do you think we will hear equal criticism of Palestinians as he has Ariel Sharon by his side?
LEVITT: Well, the president has concerns with the way both sides are implementing the road map. He thinks both sides can do more, and frankly, they can. The fence is a concern. The fact that terror groups are still rearming is a concern. There is definitely an interest in seeing both the Abu Mazen visit and the Sharon visit being seen as successes. All parties involved want this to work out. The concern moon many, however, is that the cease-fire is actually undermining some of the prospects of the road map in terms of disarming and dismantle terrorist groups.
KAGAN: I think both sides would agree that they're looking for success. I guess the debate becomes in how you achieve that and how you define success.
Gentlemen, Matthew Levitt, Ed Abington,thank you for your input today. Appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
