Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Warrant Issued for Donna Walker in Reunion Hoax in Indiana; Iraq Gets New President

Aired July 30, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Heartache in the Heartland, a missing girl vanished for 17 years, her parents today hoped for a reunion. Ninety minutes ago they had a lesson instead in cruelty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE SHERRILL, FATHER: I thought this was something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Who would possibly want to victimize a family already shaken by the loss of their child? The arrest warrant is out.

WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice-over): A message for Saddam.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: He's a piece of trash waiting to be collected.

KAGAN: And the slap in the face for him at home, Iraq gets a new president.

The hunt for bin Laden why isn't the other noose tightening?

POWELL: Well, he's no doubt being very careful how he moves.

KAGAN: Al Qaeda and the airlines, the new terror threat, is it up to you to keep the skies safe?

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: But after Flight 93, it is doubtful that any group of passengers would let any would-be hijacker take over their plane.

KAGAN: Coming out against gay marriage.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman.

KAGAN: Could the president's position become law?

And, music mission, why hundreds of thousands are spending the night together. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: It is Wednesday, July 30, 2003. Hello from CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan reporting today. Wolf Blitzer is off.

The promise of a miracle turned out to be an unimaginably cruel hoax and now the hearts of an Indiana family are crushed once again. Police say that a woman claiming to be their missing daughter is a fraud.

Our Sean Callebs is following the story and brings us the latest -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, for the past few days the parents of Shannon Sherrill had hoped to attend a news conference today saying there was good news that perhaps they had found their missing girl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS (voice-over): Shannon Marie Sherrill was six years old when she disappeared back in 1986 while playing hide and seek near her Thorntown, Indiana home but just a few days ago came a call all parents of missing children pray for, a young woman saying she could be Shannon Sherrill.

SHERRILL: When they called me with the information that we were going to have a news conference I thought they were going to bring Shannon in here. I thought this was something.

CALLEBS: Now, Mike Sherrill and his ex-wife Dorothy are dealing with losing a child for the second time.

SGT. DAVE BURSTEN, INDIANA STATE POLICE: It has been determined that the woman who contacted Dorothy Sherrill was actually the perpetrator of a cruel hoax.

CALLEBS: Indiana authorities say the calls claiming to possibly be from Shannon Sherrill were actually made by a 35-year-old woman, Donna Walker. They say through their investigation and dealing with authorities in Topeka, Kansas, and Virginia Beach, Virginia, they have determined Walker has a history of deception and using fake identities but what they don't know is why, why cruelly raising a mother and father's hope.

BURSTEN: The motive for Donna Walker to commit this alleged crime is unknown.

CALLEBS: Donna Walker is still free. Authorities hope this picture leads to her arrest and they say if anything good comes of this hoax perhaps it will trigger leads in the case of a young girl missing for 17 years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS: Just a sad, sad turn of events. The Center for Missing and Exploited Children had been, if not skeptical then certainly taking a wait and see attitude saying missing 17 years then located it isn't very common -- Daryn.

KAGAN: You just can't blame the family for holding out hope, Sean, thank you for that.

Let's get more on the story. We're joined now by Todd Meyer. He is the Boone County, Indiana prosecutor, Mr. Meyer thank you for joining us.

TODD MEYER, PROSECUTOR, BOONE COUNTY, INDIANA: Thank you.

KAGAN: So, you plan on filing charges and prosecuting this woman that is known as Donna Walker.

MEYER: I'm sorry I didn't hear that.

KAGAN: What are the charges you plan on filing against Donna Walker?

MEYER: OK, thank you. We have already filed charges. The charging information is on file with Boone Superior Court One Judge Matthew Kincaid (ph) and we filed Class D felony false informing and identity deception as a Class A misdemeanor.

KAGAN: And would that bring prison time if she is convicted?

MEYER: The maximum sentence unfortunately that I can gather out of this case in the event I'm able to get consecutive sentences on both counts is four years, which is a bit discouraging for the trauma that this person has given to this family.

KAGAN: Absolutely and really no way to measure how much pain this person has allegedly given this family but the problem right now is you don't even know where this woman is.

MEYER: That's correct. The hunt is on and that was part of the purpose of this press conference today to seek out the help of everyone across the country. If you see this person's picture and if you see this person, please contact authorities immediately because we have reason to believe that this isn't the first time this type of thing has happened with this lady.

KAGAN: That she's done this to other families.

MEYER: We believe that to be true at this time. It's something that this ongoing investigation and this case will unfold to us as we go through the discovery process.

KAGAN: I don't know how much you know about the investigation but at the news conference we heard some of the police officers talking about how this woman was actually using three different voices, pretending to be three different people.

MEYER: That's correct. I never personally have spoken to the defendant in this case, Donna Walker, but it is my understanding in working with the state police and the local marshal here that she has been able to contrive herself as both a male and a female, two different females, and one male.

KAGAN: And just one final question. I don't know how much you know about how this news conference was set up but for our viewers that were watching it unfold on CNN, it would appear that when the news conference began the family did not know that this woman was a fake that it wasn't their daughter that they were learning this news as the world was watching them at this news conference, is that true?

MEYER: I think what we're seeing at the conference live, a rush of emotions, a lot of emotions taking over for the family. I think that's partly what the viewers are seeing. I know that my office, the state police, the police that have been working this case primarily, as soon as they were able to make contact with the family, which we weren't able to make contact with everyone unfortunately, we did provide them information as soon as possible.

But, you have to remember we were -- this matter has been sealed until just shortly before the press conference for purposes of protecting the warrant and the integrity of the warrant.

KAGAN: So, even though it appeared that the Sherrill family might be learning of the news, it might have just been a rush of emotions is what you're saying that your office or the police department made every effort to make sure this is not how they were finding out on national television?

MEYER: Correct, absolutely not. We provided them the information just as soon as we possibly could. It was highly sensitive information. I mean we have a fugitive on our hands and we are trying to find that person even as we speak.

KAGAN: Absolutely, we wish you well in that search for the woman known as Donna Walker. Todd Meyer, Boone County, Indiana prosecutor, thank you sir for your time.

MEYER: Thank you.

KAGAN: Well, it's absolutely impossible to know what these parents are going through. Just last night the father in this case, Mr. Sherrill, had a chance to talk with Paula Zahn. At that point, he was still full of hope and he was talking about how amazing it was to talk to this woman who at that point he really did honestly believe was his long lost daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: I understand you then had an opportunity to talk with this young woman you believe to be your daughter. Can you share with us what the two of you had to say to each other?

SHERRILL: Oh, before I talked to her I had a million questions that I wanted to ask her and when I got her on the phone I just totally spaced everything. I just went blank and I just asked her how she was and she said she was fine and it was so good to hear her voice.

ZAHN: You also have to live with the cruel reality that this could be a hoax. Have investigators told you to be wary of that?

SHERRILL: Yes, they told me, and I'm just hoping that it's not. After hearing her voice, you know, it's different.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Well, and of course today all those hopes absolutely dashed when you saw the reaction here on CNN.

In just a moment we're going to have a chance to talk with a woman who works with a center that deals with families that do have missing children and ask what could possibly be done for a family in this situation. We will get back to that story in just a minute.

First, though, let's to another developing story, there's been an alleged confession in the case of the two missing New Hampshire children whose father is charged with their murders.

Julie Ruditzky of CNN affiliate WNDS is in Derry, New Hampshire, and she has details on that -- Julie, what can you tell us?

JULIE RUDITZKY, WNDS CORRESPONDENT: Well, in my hands these are the court documents that were just released and they indicate that Manuel Gehring confessed to police admitting that he murdered his two children shooting them with a handgun on the night of July 4.

Now, these details come from a search warrant. It was used to gain access to Gehring's home following the disappearance of his two children. Now, the search warrant indicates that Gehring when first asked by investigators if he killed his children said "My life is over."

And when asked if he killed his children again he put his head down and didn't respond but then later told investigators that on the night of July 4, he returned home after the fireworks with his two children. Then he took a .9mm handgun, got back in the van, and drove for about 30 to 45 minutes before shooting them both.

Now, the court documents indicate that then he continued to drive, stopping at a Wal-Mart, which we pretty much knew that, where he bought a shovel and axe, a scissors and some duct tape and then drove another three to four hours stopping in some secluded spot in the Midwest somewhere and after burying the children said a prayer and then left a cross made of duct tape on the grave.

Now, Gehring is behind bars at this point. He's under suicide watch at Merrimac County Jail and, of course, the bodies of 14-year- old Sarah and 11-year-old Philip they're still missing. But as of right now this is a major development in this case. These documents reveal that Manuel Gehring admitted to killing both his children -- back to you.

KAGAN: All right, thank you for the latest on that story. We're going to get back to our lead story right now and that is the story of the Sherrill family trying to deal with the news that the woman who claimed to be their daughter is indeed not. In fact, there is a warrant out for the arrest of the woman known as Donna Walker.

Few people know the family's pain. Marsha Gilmer Tullis though has seen it too many times before. She is the director of the Family Advocacy Division of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and she is joining us from Washington today. Thank you so much.

MARSHA GILMER TULLIS, NATL. CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: Thank you.

KAGAN: I don't know if you had a chance to see this news conference but to see the look on the family's face was just absolutely devastating. It appeared at the news conference they were learning at just that moment that this was not their daughter, this woman who was claiming to be their daughter.

TULLIS: Yes, that's a very tragic kind of situation, particularly given the length of time that their daughter has been missing. It certainly was devastating, not only for -- you know certainly for the family but for those of us that were so hoping and, particularly at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children that indeed this was their daughter.

KAGAN: Marsha, when we see something like this happen we just have to wonder how could anybody possibly be so cruel as to inflict this kind of pain but does this type of thing happen more often than we know?

TULLIS: No, actually it really doesn't. It's not one of those kinds of situations where we see this on a regular basis that an individual would claim to be a missing child or in this case a missing adult, a young adult now.

KAGAN: And just to look at this particular situation with this family, 17 years this girl has been missing. That's a long time to hold out hope and yet it seemed like that's exactly what this family was doing. Is there a point, how do you ever counsel a family that it's time not to hope? How can you tell a family that?

TULLIS: Well, I tell you the families that we work with never give up hope and that's something that we encourage them not to do. We encourage them to have hope, never to give up, because we really just don't know.

And, this family along with hundreds of others throughout the country that have missing children, they always continue to give up hope and they give support to one another not to give up hope and to keep looking and searching because, again, one never knows where that missing child or missing adult may be.

KAGAN: Well, and the only possible silver lining in this particular case, we heard the police officer at the news conference say perhaps this will once again put the story of this girl into the public eye and that will remind somebody or, perhaps, even guilt somebody into coming forward and giving real information about what happened to his girl 17 years ago.

TULLIS: Absolutely. We really do hope that that indeed would be the case and we hope that the family, again, will be able to move forward, continue the search for their daughter and, again, you know, keep that hope going and just let people know that indeed she is important. She has always been important and she will continue to be important and the search will continue.

KAGAN: And all you have to look into that family's eyes and their heart and you can see that's exactly how they feel.

TULLIS: Oh, absolutely, no doubt.

KAGAN: Marsha Gilmer Tullis with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children thank you for your time today.

TULLIS: Thank you.

KAGAN: Much appreciate it.

We're going to move on now to some international news and the search for Saddam Hussein and the hunt for Osama bin Laden. Can the U.S. land two big fish at the same time? We'll take a closer look.

Plus, terror threats against the airlines, is cost standing in the way of proper security? We will take a closer look at that.

And, how about the Rolling Stones, AC/DC, and Justin Timberlake, what are they doing hanging out in Canada? The rock benefit that is drawing huge crowds, we're going there live.

But first, here is today's news quiz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN (voice-over): Who drew the largest crowd in history at a free rock concert? Was it the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Rod Stewart, or Simon & Garfunkel? The answer is coming up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Turning now to the hunt for Saddam Hussein, he is on the run but the CIA says that audio tape that was released yesterday is probably the real deal.

Let's go live to the Pentagon and our Correspondent Barbara Starr for more on that -- Barbara, hello.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Daryn.

Well, indeed, the hunt goes on and President Bush in that Rose Garden press conference earlier today expressing some cautious optimism about how close U.S. troops have come to capturing Saddam Hussein.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I don't know how close we are to getting Saddam Hussein. You know, it's closer than we were yesterday I guess. All I know is we're on the hunt. It's like if you'd have asked me right before we got his sons how close we were to getting his sons, I'd say I don't know but we're on the hunt and we're making progress, slowly but surely making progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: The CIA has now indeed compared that audio tape played on Arab television yesterday purported to be Saddam Hussein, compared it to other audio tapes, known recordings of his voice. They've compared the voice patterns, the cadences and they say there is a very great likelihood indeed it is Saddam Hussein.

He speaks about the death of his sons last week, so further confirmation to the Iraqi people that Saddam Hussein's sons are dead but also further confirmation that Saddam Hussein is still alive -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara, meanwhile while we've been hearing so much about the hunt for Saddam Hussein we haven't heard a lot about the hunt for those weapons of mass destruction in recent weeks. What's new on that search?

STARR: We have a little news to tell you on that front. Now, David Kay, the CIA's chief in charge of looking for those weapons of mass destruction inside Iraq, as well as senior Pentagon officials, will testify tomorrow on Capitol Hill, classified sessions behind closed doors but there is an early look at what they plan to say.

They will tell Senators that there is no smoking gun so far, no concrete evidence that they have found. They have nothing in hand that is chemical or biological material.

But, they also will say there is evidence of what they say is an active program that Saddam Hussein had and they will point to several factors that back this up we are told and that is a series of interrogations and documents that have come into U.S. hands in recent weeks and they say that they will talk about three things.

Sources tell CNN that there are documents on how Iraq planned to quickly destroy stockpiles of WMD, documents on how Iraq planned to quickly shift its dual-use facilities from commercial to weapons production, all part of Iraq's deception program.

And, also, documents on how Iraq planned to reconstitute its weapons program if there was to be some attack or some effort that they had to make to dismantle it in the face of inspections. So, a status report tomorrow will say they have an active program but still no smoking gun. KAGAN: All right, thanks for the advance preview on that. We will look forward to that, Barbara thank you.

Well, that latest audio tape may not have the desired effect in Iraq where U.S. troops continue the hunt for Saddam. Our Rym Brahimi is live in Baghdad -- Rym.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the meantime, in the residential area of Mansor, a demonstration against U.S. military, many people protesting the way Iraqi civilians are handled by the Iraqi forces this after a botched raid turned tragic when at least three Iraqi civilians were killed. Apparently, they were going to church and didn't realize that the area where a commando force was conducting a raid had been cordoned off.

Well, in the meantime, a lot of other raids have taken place in the last 24 hours in Iraq, many of them in the area of Tikrit, which is the hometown of Saddam Hussein, U.S. military officials saying they're closing in on the former Iraqi leader.

They've also been able to get a lot of information, they say, as well as a lot of weapons in several raids conducted in various areas in Iraq. That said Iraq remains a dangerous place.

A lot of people are still armed and the attacks against U.S. soldiers continue, several attacks against U.S. soldiers not only in Baghdad but in the north of the country as well, U.S. military officials calling on U.S. soldiers to avoid certain areas unless they have urgent business to do there.

(on camera): Rym Brahimi, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Well, you might not realize it but Iraqis today actually got a new president, at least for the time being as Secretary of State Powell made it very clear that Saddam Hussein is history.

Let's go live now to Andrea Koppel who is at the State Department. So, there's a new president in Iraq, huh Andrea?

ANDREW KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a manner of speaking, Daryn, but Secretary of State Powell actually repeated a mantra that's become sort of the favorite of administration officials in the last week or so.

He said that the noose is tightening around Saddam Hussein and, as proof, he pointed to the recent arrest of Saddam Hussein's closest confidantes and bodyguard and Secretary Powell said he'd prefer not to focus on Saddam Hussein himself's whereabouts. Rather, he said he wanted to focus on a lot of the good things that are happening in Iraq these days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) POWELL: Slowly but surely the infrastructure is being put back in place. Slowly but surely Ambassador Bremer and his team are successfully starting up economic activity and a political process is underway and the international community is coming in all ways to support this effort and that's the good news and Saddam Hussein is no longer bad news. He's a piece of trash waiting to be collected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: Now on a related note, Daryn, as you mentioned in Baghdad today the governing council, that's the 25 member body recently established by the U.S. occupation authority to advise the U.S. decided today that its presidency would rotate among a nine member leadership committee, which is made up of five Shiite Muslims, dominant religious group as you know in Iraq; four Sunni Muslims including two Kurds -- back to you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Andrea Koppel at the State Department, Andrea thank you for that.

Coming up, as the United States hunts for Saddam, is the hunt for Osama bin Laden taking a back seat? Do American forces have the resources to chase after the al Qaeda leader? Mike Boettcher looks at that just ahead.

Also ahead, new clues in the case of a slain basketball player, find out about the autopsy report what that reveals.

And then, coming out on gay marriage, hear why President Bush is talking to his lawyers on this issue.

And, the Kobe Bryant case the judge rules on whether the public will be watching.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: All right, we have more news coming in now. We've just received more information on just how much the access -- actually how much access the media will have in tomorrow's hearing in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case.

Our Deborah Feyerick is in Eagle, Colorado with more on this -- Deb, hello.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Daryn.

Well, the judge has given the green light to have a camera in the courtroom tomorrow. That's when the judge is going to be hearing arguments on whether to open the file on Kobe Bryant.

Right now, everything is sealed. The media wants all the documents made public. The district attorney and Kobe Bryant's defense team say they don't want these documents made public because they say it will generate way too much pretrial publicity and could hurt Kobe Bryant's right to a fair trial. The judge said, uh uh, so a camera will be in the courtroom. Now, if the judge does open his file one of the first documents that will be available will be the arrest warrant affidavit. That is the document that the district attorney used to file the charges against Kobe Bryant.

It would include statements that the young woman made as to what happened that night, also physical evidence, for example scratches, bruises, and it would include the young woman's demeanor at the time she went to police to tell her what happened. Was she crying or was she calm?

Now, also today, a very well respected prosecutor has joined the defense attorney -- the district attorney, I'm sorry. She is an expert on sexual assault cases -- Daryn.

KAGAN: So, Deborah, we know there will be a camera in the courtroom but what about Kobe Bryant? Will he be in the courtroom?

FEYERICK: No. Kobe Bryant does not have to show tomorrow and, as a matter of fact, there's still a question as to whether he's going to show next Wednesday for his initial appearance. What often happens is that the lawyers try to get a waiver from the district attorney. The district attorney could grant one if, for example, he thinks there could be just way too much attention happening on that day.

KAGAN: All right, Deborah Feyerick in Eagle, Colorado, we'll look forward to those proceedings tomorrow. Thank you for that, Deb.

Other news now, a preliminary autopsy report is out on Baylor University basketball player Patrick Dennehy. His decomposed body was found Friday near Waco, Texas. Our Mike Brooks is in Waco and he has the latest on that autopsy report which sounds absolutely gruesome -- Mike.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is, Daryn.

Earlier this morning, Justice of the Peace Belinda Summers, a judge here in McLennan County, released a preliminary autopsy report with the cause of death. In the report it says an autopsy was performed and the cause of death is gunshot wounds of the head. They say wounds. I found out from a source that it was possibly two -- it was two, possibly three shots that killed Patrick Dennehy.

Now, the other interesting piece in this, Daryn, is that it says that the place of death and that the place of discovery of the body were both one and the same. Investigators earlier on were hinting that they thought that he was shot where the body was found. It now confirmed it in this particular report.

We also have heard from a source that it's a possibility that they're looking, that investigators are looking at other people involved in this, besides Carlton Dotson who sits in jail in Kent County accused of his murder. So, as the report is released we're getting a little more information and this case is far from over -- Daryn.

KAGAN: That it is. Mike Brooks in Waco, thank you for that.

We are hot on the trail of Saddam Hussein but what about Osama bin Laden? Find out how the world's most notorious terrorist is eluding capture.

Also, President Bush comes out on gay marriage hear his plans to stop it from happening.

And, the prime minister versus the horse, see how this wild ride came to an end.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, welcome back to CNN. The hunt for Osama bin Laden -- is Saddam Hussein throwing U.S. forces off that mission? We're going to take a closer look at that.

But first, let's check out the latest headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

KAGAN: Well, it is just weeks after the war in Iraq and U.S. forces say they are closing in on Saddam Hussein. Yet almost two years into the war on terror, Osama bin Laden remains as elusive as ever. Why the disparity here?

Our national correspondent Mike Boettcher has some answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. troops on the hunt for Saddam Hussein, missing him by just a matter of hours, we're told. They're confident they are closing in on the former Iraqi leader.

Along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border, U.S. troops on the hunt for Osama bin Laden. While visiting the area, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff expressing confidence that progress is being made in finding bin Laden.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: He's, no doubt, being very careful how he moves.

BOETTCHER: In both cases, recent successes. U.S. troops killing Saddam's sons in Iraq and Pakistani forces capturing al Qaeda's operational commander, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. And in each manhunt, they've narrowed down the area where they're looking for their prime target. In Iraq, to an area around Baghdad and Tikrit; and with bin Laden, to areas along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border.

So why does it seem so much harder to get close to bin Laden?

KEN ROBINSON, SECURITY ANALYST: The two situations are totally different.

BOETTCHER: CNN national security analyst Ken Robinson says terrain is one reason. It is easier to go after Saddam because the area he might be in is flat, easy for troops to operate in. Not so in the area where bin Laden is believed hiding.

ROBINSON: The aircraft don't have the ability to loiter over some of those targets in those lawless areas without having to go back and refuel.

BOETTCHER: Another important difference? The U.S. can't act alone in hunting bin Laden. It must rely in large part on Pakistan.

Then there's human intelligence. Not much there in the hunt for bin Laden, and no takers so far on the $25 million reward on either side of the Afghan/Pakistan border.

But Saddam Hussein is swimming in a much less loyal sea, says Robinson. And already someone has given up his sons for $30 million. Lots of people are talking right now in Iraq.

ROBINSON: The Shia being 60 -- potentially 60 percent, they have incentive to try to influence what post-war Iraq is going to look like., and many of those folks have no love lost for Saddam Hussein and are the sources of much of the human intelligence which is coming into the coalition right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER: Another reason the trail has been much colder in the case of Osama bin Laden, military sources tell CNN that Special Operations Forces and CIA operatives needed for that job are currently in Iraq, looking for Saddam Hussein.

KAGAN: Mike, I have so many questions for you. We have a live event we need to go to.

BOETTCHER: That's fine.

KAGAN: So I'll just save my questions for another time.

(INTERRUPTED BY CNN COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)]

KAGAN: We've been listening to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who is coming out of one of his weekly meetings with law makers on Capital Hill.

As we wrap that up, we move on to other news, including our resources also spread too thin on the home front, along with warnings of a plot to attack commercial airlines. Now there's concerns about cutbacks in the federal air marshal program.

Let's bring in Jeanne Meserve in Washington, to tell us more about this potential conflict. Jeanne, hello.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Daryn, that reported contrast was too delectable or too disturbing for congressional Democrats to pass up. They said reports of cutbacks in the federal air marshal program demonstrated that the administration is not spending enough on Homeland Security, and particularly on the Transportation Security Administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: They are cutting into the bone right now. When they need -- when they don't have enough money to fund air marshals, which was one of the things we talked about the most right after 9/11, as a way of preventing another 9/11 from happening, then you know that there's no fat in this agency and they are cutting into bone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: The Transportation Security Administration is in a bind with a budget shortfall this year of around $900 million. And it does want to shift money away from the air marshals program. That would postpone advanced training for air marshals, as well as some hiring. But road blocks are already being put up on Capitol Hill. Meanwhile, the Department of Homeland Security insists the same number of missions is being flown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: America should know that every air marshal that we have is being deployed and additional resources are being directed to that very critical mission. America should also know, and I suggest they probably share this point of view that after Flight 93, it is doubtful that any group of passengers would let any would-be hijacker take over their plane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: Now word that the undersecretary of Border and Transportation Security has written a letter to the head of the TSA saying air marshal deployment should be maintained on domestic and international flights consistent with available threat information and authorizing the expansion of deployments, even if that means soliciting help from other federal law enforcement agencies. Daryn back to you.

KAGAN: Jeanne, thanks for the latest on that.

I also want our viewers to know you can join CNN tonight at 8:00 Eastern for live from the headlines. Paula Zahn will bring you a special, travel terror and how it affects you.

President Bush weighs in on gay marriage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: But should there be a federal law to ban same-sex unions? That debate when we come back.

Also, the hottest names in rock'n'roll gather in Canada. Find out what's bringing together the Stones, AC/DC and Justin Timberlake are going to Toronto Live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, for the second time this month, President Bush today spoke out on the controversial issue of gay marriage. He says he opposes same-sex marriage. He did, though, stop short of passing any moral judgment on homosexuality.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I think it's very important for our society to respect each individual, to welcome those with good hearts, to be a welcoming country.

On the other hand, that does not mean that somebody like me needs to compromise on issues such as marriage. And that's really where the issue is headed here in Washington, and that is the definition of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. And I think we ought to codify that one way or the other. And we've got lawyers looking at the best way to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And so the president is talking about perhaps making it a federal law that would be against same-sex marriage.

Joining us now to talk about the president's remarks, Corey Johnson, the producer and co-host of the "John McMullen Show." His story about being a gay high school football team captain was widely documented in the national media. Also with us, Genevieve Wood, vice president of media relations at the Family Research Council. Good afternoon to both of you and thanks for being with us.

COREY JOHNSON, PRODUCER, CO-HOST, "THE JOHN MCMULLEN SHOW": Thank you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Corey, I want to go ahead and start with you. Disappointing or surprising to hear President Bush's remarks today?

JOHNSON: Well, completely disappointing. The president talked about marriage between a man and a woman. I believe and many gay and lesbian people around this country believe marriage is about love. Love between two consensual adults, and that is what this should be about. It shouldn't be about religion. If you are a religious institution and you want to marry a man and a woman, that is fine. But if I want to go down to city hall with my partner or boyfriend and get a contract that says that I can be married, I should be able to do that. It's equality under the law, and we're going to see it very soon, and President Bush looking back on history will wish he was on the right side of things. KAGAN: Genevieve, let's bring you in here. I'm sure you are all in favor of love, but I also would imagine that you are pleased with what you heard from President Bush today.

GENEVIEVE WOOD, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, we did appreciate what President Bush said today. And I think that he represents what the overwhelming majority of Americans believe, which is that marriage is between a man and a woman. Look, there's a lot of other relationships out there that involve love. Best friends, for instance. But we don't privilege the relationship of best friends or any other type of relationship...

JOHNSON: There's no comparison.

WOOD: The way that we do man and woman getting married, because we've decided not only in this society, but throughout all of history that the best way for a stable society to exist is to have strong families, and to provide safe places to raise children.

JOHNSON: And gay and lesbian people have strong families. Gay and lesbian families raise children.

WOOD: Throughout history, it's been a man and a woman relationship, and we've done that, and that's why we give special benefits to marriage. It's not because we like married people better than others. It's because we believe as a society and as government it promotes stable families. And so we privilege it.

JOHNSON: Gay and lesbian people, by and large, you can find them in every county, every city, every town across America. We're your brothers, your sisters, your sons, your daughters and we should be able to enter into loving relationships just like everyone else.

WOOD: And you can enter into ...

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: Let Genevieve go. Go ahead.

WOOD: The only difference is, as the president says. Look, you have got a right to enter those relationships, but you don't have a right to demand that the public, the government, churches, other public institutions recognize your relationship as on the same level as a man and woman getting married. If businesses want to grant those partnerships, domestic partnerships, they can do that. The society doesn't have to give you that special blessing that we give to men and women who make the commitment to get married.

KAGAN: Let me just jump in here a second, Genevieve. I just want to turn it into a political question here. If he is talking about a federal law, this is from a president that often likes to talk about state's rights and local communities making their decision. Let's say that if perhaps folks in Vermont want to be able to have gays be able to marry but folks in Kansas don't. Why shouldn't it be a state issue? Why should there be a federal law against this? WOOD: Well, because I think as a country and as a society, this is a question of the definition of marriage. It's not something that we just get to redefine and make up depending on what state we live in. But having said that, Daryn, 37 states have taken that question to their state legislatures and the voters, and they said, look, we want to ban same-sex marriage in our state, and in 37 states that's exactly what voters and legislatures have done. That's also what Bill Clinton signed back in 1996. It didn't forbid homosexual relationships, but it forbids them being deemed married under U.S. law, and it said that if one state passes gay marriage, another state doesn't have to recognize it.

KAGAN: I have one minute left here, before I want to bring you back in here. It was just about a month ago the gay community was so encouraged with the U.S. Supreme Court coming out against the anti- sodomy laws in Texas in Lawrence versus Texas.

Do you think the president's remarks and also what we're hearing in a lot of polls, this is backlash about people concerned about what they heard coming out of the supreme court?

JOHNSON: I think there was a lot of publicity and media around the wonderful decision that the Supreme Court ruled upon. And I think that going forward, if you look at Justice Kennedy's opinion, a conservative on that court, talks about homosexual people, gay and lesbian people cannot be demeaned under the law any forward. And very soon, Daryn. And very soon Genevieve, (sic) looking into the future, America is going to realize that marriage is about love. It's about men and men and women and women and men and women getting together and getting their consensual relationships recognized. We are going to see it. I hope that President Bush and you Genevieve (sic) will be...

WOOD: It's Genevieve, but that's not the point. The point here is the reason you saw a drop in those poll numbers which CNN did is that I think Americans saw, you know what, if we start redefining the institution of marriage it means we don't stop at gay marriage. It means anybody who loves each other and wants to form a family according to those folks, can call themselves married. And a lot of Americans said, we don't want to go down that path.

And that's going to be the last word.

JOHNSON: It's not a path. It's about love and...

KAGAN: And that's going to be the last word. It is the last word, Corey. Corey, it is the last word. I am, sorry, I gave you the first chance and I had to give Genevieve the last word. Thanks to both. Genevieve Wood and Corey Johnson, thanks for being with us. Appreciate your views from both of you.

Now, it's your turn to weigh in on this story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this, should there be a federal law to ban same-sex marriage?

We are going to have the results later in this broadcast. You though can go ahead and vote right now. Go to cnn.com/wolf. The stones are there and hundreds of thousands of fans are there as well. They are rocking like crazy in Toronto. We're going to go there to tell you live what they are singing and what they are dancing about in Toronto.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Earlier we asked, who drew the largest crowd in history at a free rock concert. The answer: Rod Stewart. His 1994 New Year's eve beach concert in Rio De Janeiro drew an estimated 3.5 million fans. Now, I cannot believe a single one of you out there guessed that Rod Stewart was the right answer out there, and yet, it is.

Well, it's happening right now, hundreds of thousands of rock fans are packed into a Toronto park. They are there for a star- studded concert aimed at showing the Canadian city of Toronto is free of SARS. Headlining the 11-hour bash will be the Rolling Stones. Our Kendis Gibson somehow managed to score a great assignment yet again. And he's in the thick of things in Toronto.

Kendis, hello.

KENDIS GIBSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT AND CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: I'm telling you I've got a good agent. I'm stunned by that 3.5 million for a Rod Stewart concert.

KAGAN: First concert I ever went to was Rod Stewart, but not that one.

Hey, that's a great thing. Take a look, this might be a first concert for a number of people out there. About a half million people, the unofficial count that we're getting right now from organizers gathered here on the north end of Toronto to see a host of different acts, 15 different acts in all. Actually, you know what, probably the biggest act to have hit the stage so far I'd say is probably Justin Timberlake. And he's gotten mixed reaction from the crowd. Some people were cheering. During his first set I saw some water bottles flown on stage while he was performing. He is here in Toronto for a concert with Kristina Aguilera. Most of the folks deciding to come here to try to help out this city, which has really been hit so hard with the SARS epidemic. $50 million expected to be made by this concert here. A drop in the bucket when you compare it to the billion dollars in losses the city has suffered since February, when so many people were killed as a result of the SARS epidemic. In the meantime, though, Justin Timberlake there on stage. A lot of other acts. It's going to be a real rock show from here on. AC/DC and then, the grandfathers of rock and roll, the Rolling Stones hitting the stage around 9:45 Eastern time.

Daryn, throw it back to you.

KAGAN: Mick Jagger turned 60 last week. Hopefully he'll make it through just fine.

GIBSON: We can only hope.

Kendis, thank you for that. You enjoy. You deserve it.

Our hot web question of the day is this, should there be a federal law to ban same-sex marriage?

We're getting thousands of votes. Vote right now, cnn.com/wolf. The results right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: All right, just enough time to check in on the "Web Question of the Day" to see how you are weighing in. Remember we have been asking you this.

Should there be a federal law to ban same-sex marriage?

Lots of votes coming in. Twenty-one percent of you say, yes, there should be a federal, 79 percent of you said, no. You can check are vote tally at cnn.com/wolf.

As always we tell you of course this is not a scientific poll, just a place to express you opinion.

A reminder you can always watch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, weekdays at this time 5:00 Eastern. I will be here again tomorrow. Until then thanks for joining us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Indiana; Iraq Gets New President>


Aired July 30, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Heartache in the Heartland, a missing girl vanished for 17 years, her parents today hoped for a reunion. Ninety minutes ago they had a lesson instead in cruelty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE SHERRILL, FATHER: I thought this was something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Who would possibly want to victimize a family already shaken by the loss of their child? The arrest warrant is out.

WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice-over): A message for Saddam.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: He's a piece of trash waiting to be collected.

KAGAN: And the slap in the face for him at home, Iraq gets a new president.

The hunt for bin Laden why isn't the other noose tightening?

POWELL: Well, he's no doubt being very careful how he moves.

KAGAN: Al Qaeda and the airlines, the new terror threat, is it up to you to keep the skies safe?

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: But after Flight 93, it is doubtful that any group of passengers would let any would-be hijacker take over their plane.

KAGAN: Coming out against gay marriage.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman.

KAGAN: Could the president's position become law?

And, music mission, why hundreds of thousands are spending the night together. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: It is Wednesday, July 30, 2003. Hello from CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan reporting today. Wolf Blitzer is off.

The promise of a miracle turned out to be an unimaginably cruel hoax and now the hearts of an Indiana family are crushed once again. Police say that a woman claiming to be their missing daughter is a fraud.

Our Sean Callebs is following the story and brings us the latest -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, for the past few days the parents of Shannon Sherrill had hoped to attend a news conference today saying there was good news that perhaps they had found their missing girl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS (voice-over): Shannon Marie Sherrill was six years old when she disappeared back in 1986 while playing hide and seek near her Thorntown, Indiana home but just a few days ago came a call all parents of missing children pray for, a young woman saying she could be Shannon Sherrill.

SHERRILL: When they called me with the information that we were going to have a news conference I thought they were going to bring Shannon in here. I thought this was something.

CALLEBS: Now, Mike Sherrill and his ex-wife Dorothy are dealing with losing a child for the second time.

SGT. DAVE BURSTEN, INDIANA STATE POLICE: It has been determined that the woman who contacted Dorothy Sherrill was actually the perpetrator of a cruel hoax.

CALLEBS: Indiana authorities say the calls claiming to possibly be from Shannon Sherrill were actually made by a 35-year-old woman, Donna Walker. They say through their investigation and dealing with authorities in Topeka, Kansas, and Virginia Beach, Virginia, they have determined Walker has a history of deception and using fake identities but what they don't know is why, why cruelly raising a mother and father's hope.

BURSTEN: The motive for Donna Walker to commit this alleged crime is unknown.

CALLEBS: Donna Walker is still free. Authorities hope this picture leads to her arrest and they say if anything good comes of this hoax perhaps it will trigger leads in the case of a young girl missing for 17 years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS: Just a sad, sad turn of events. The Center for Missing and Exploited Children had been, if not skeptical then certainly taking a wait and see attitude saying missing 17 years then located it isn't very common -- Daryn.

KAGAN: You just can't blame the family for holding out hope, Sean, thank you for that.

Let's get more on the story. We're joined now by Todd Meyer. He is the Boone County, Indiana prosecutor, Mr. Meyer thank you for joining us.

TODD MEYER, PROSECUTOR, BOONE COUNTY, INDIANA: Thank you.

KAGAN: So, you plan on filing charges and prosecuting this woman that is known as Donna Walker.

MEYER: I'm sorry I didn't hear that.

KAGAN: What are the charges you plan on filing against Donna Walker?

MEYER: OK, thank you. We have already filed charges. The charging information is on file with Boone Superior Court One Judge Matthew Kincaid (ph) and we filed Class D felony false informing and identity deception as a Class A misdemeanor.

KAGAN: And would that bring prison time if she is convicted?

MEYER: The maximum sentence unfortunately that I can gather out of this case in the event I'm able to get consecutive sentences on both counts is four years, which is a bit discouraging for the trauma that this person has given to this family.

KAGAN: Absolutely and really no way to measure how much pain this person has allegedly given this family but the problem right now is you don't even know where this woman is.

MEYER: That's correct. The hunt is on and that was part of the purpose of this press conference today to seek out the help of everyone across the country. If you see this person's picture and if you see this person, please contact authorities immediately because we have reason to believe that this isn't the first time this type of thing has happened with this lady.

KAGAN: That she's done this to other families.

MEYER: We believe that to be true at this time. It's something that this ongoing investigation and this case will unfold to us as we go through the discovery process.

KAGAN: I don't know how much you know about the investigation but at the news conference we heard some of the police officers talking about how this woman was actually using three different voices, pretending to be three different people.

MEYER: That's correct. I never personally have spoken to the defendant in this case, Donna Walker, but it is my understanding in working with the state police and the local marshal here that she has been able to contrive herself as both a male and a female, two different females, and one male.

KAGAN: And just one final question. I don't know how much you know about how this news conference was set up but for our viewers that were watching it unfold on CNN, it would appear that when the news conference began the family did not know that this woman was a fake that it wasn't their daughter that they were learning this news as the world was watching them at this news conference, is that true?

MEYER: I think what we're seeing at the conference live, a rush of emotions, a lot of emotions taking over for the family. I think that's partly what the viewers are seeing. I know that my office, the state police, the police that have been working this case primarily, as soon as they were able to make contact with the family, which we weren't able to make contact with everyone unfortunately, we did provide them information as soon as possible.

But, you have to remember we were -- this matter has been sealed until just shortly before the press conference for purposes of protecting the warrant and the integrity of the warrant.

KAGAN: So, even though it appeared that the Sherrill family might be learning of the news, it might have just been a rush of emotions is what you're saying that your office or the police department made every effort to make sure this is not how they were finding out on national television?

MEYER: Correct, absolutely not. We provided them the information just as soon as we possibly could. It was highly sensitive information. I mean we have a fugitive on our hands and we are trying to find that person even as we speak.

KAGAN: Absolutely, we wish you well in that search for the woman known as Donna Walker. Todd Meyer, Boone County, Indiana prosecutor, thank you sir for your time.

MEYER: Thank you.

KAGAN: Well, it's absolutely impossible to know what these parents are going through. Just last night the father in this case, Mr. Sherrill, had a chance to talk with Paula Zahn. At that point, he was still full of hope and he was talking about how amazing it was to talk to this woman who at that point he really did honestly believe was his long lost daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: I understand you then had an opportunity to talk with this young woman you believe to be your daughter. Can you share with us what the two of you had to say to each other?

SHERRILL: Oh, before I talked to her I had a million questions that I wanted to ask her and when I got her on the phone I just totally spaced everything. I just went blank and I just asked her how she was and she said she was fine and it was so good to hear her voice.

ZAHN: You also have to live with the cruel reality that this could be a hoax. Have investigators told you to be wary of that?

SHERRILL: Yes, they told me, and I'm just hoping that it's not. After hearing her voice, you know, it's different.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Well, and of course today all those hopes absolutely dashed when you saw the reaction here on CNN.

In just a moment we're going to have a chance to talk with a woman who works with a center that deals with families that do have missing children and ask what could possibly be done for a family in this situation. We will get back to that story in just a minute.

First, though, let's to another developing story, there's been an alleged confession in the case of the two missing New Hampshire children whose father is charged with their murders.

Julie Ruditzky of CNN affiliate WNDS is in Derry, New Hampshire, and she has details on that -- Julie, what can you tell us?

JULIE RUDITZKY, WNDS CORRESPONDENT: Well, in my hands these are the court documents that were just released and they indicate that Manuel Gehring confessed to police admitting that he murdered his two children shooting them with a handgun on the night of July 4.

Now, these details come from a search warrant. It was used to gain access to Gehring's home following the disappearance of his two children. Now, the search warrant indicates that Gehring when first asked by investigators if he killed his children said "My life is over."

And when asked if he killed his children again he put his head down and didn't respond but then later told investigators that on the night of July 4, he returned home after the fireworks with his two children. Then he took a .9mm handgun, got back in the van, and drove for about 30 to 45 minutes before shooting them both.

Now, the court documents indicate that then he continued to drive, stopping at a Wal-Mart, which we pretty much knew that, where he bought a shovel and axe, a scissors and some duct tape and then drove another three to four hours stopping in some secluded spot in the Midwest somewhere and after burying the children said a prayer and then left a cross made of duct tape on the grave.

Now, Gehring is behind bars at this point. He's under suicide watch at Merrimac County Jail and, of course, the bodies of 14-year- old Sarah and 11-year-old Philip they're still missing. But as of right now this is a major development in this case. These documents reveal that Manuel Gehring admitted to killing both his children -- back to you.

KAGAN: All right, thank you for the latest on that story. We're going to get back to our lead story right now and that is the story of the Sherrill family trying to deal with the news that the woman who claimed to be their daughter is indeed not. In fact, there is a warrant out for the arrest of the woman known as Donna Walker.

Few people know the family's pain. Marsha Gilmer Tullis though has seen it too many times before. She is the director of the Family Advocacy Division of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and she is joining us from Washington today. Thank you so much.

MARSHA GILMER TULLIS, NATL. CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: Thank you.

KAGAN: I don't know if you had a chance to see this news conference but to see the look on the family's face was just absolutely devastating. It appeared at the news conference they were learning at just that moment that this was not their daughter, this woman who was claiming to be their daughter.

TULLIS: Yes, that's a very tragic kind of situation, particularly given the length of time that their daughter has been missing. It certainly was devastating, not only for -- you know certainly for the family but for those of us that were so hoping and, particularly at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children that indeed this was their daughter.

KAGAN: Marsha, when we see something like this happen we just have to wonder how could anybody possibly be so cruel as to inflict this kind of pain but does this type of thing happen more often than we know?

TULLIS: No, actually it really doesn't. It's not one of those kinds of situations where we see this on a regular basis that an individual would claim to be a missing child or in this case a missing adult, a young adult now.

KAGAN: And just to look at this particular situation with this family, 17 years this girl has been missing. That's a long time to hold out hope and yet it seemed like that's exactly what this family was doing. Is there a point, how do you ever counsel a family that it's time not to hope? How can you tell a family that?

TULLIS: Well, I tell you the families that we work with never give up hope and that's something that we encourage them not to do. We encourage them to have hope, never to give up, because we really just don't know.

And, this family along with hundreds of others throughout the country that have missing children, they always continue to give up hope and they give support to one another not to give up hope and to keep looking and searching because, again, one never knows where that missing child or missing adult may be.

KAGAN: Well, and the only possible silver lining in this particular case, we heard the police officer at the news conference say perhaps this will once again put the story of this girl into the public eye and that will remind somebody or, perhaps, even guilt somebody into coming forward and giving real information about what happened to his girl 17 years ago.

TULLIS: Absolutely. We really do hope that that indeed would be the case and we hope that the family, again, will be able to move forward, continue the search for their daughter and, again, you know, keep that hope going and just let people know that indeed she is important. She has always been important and she will continue to be important and the search will continue.

KAGAN: And all you have to look into that family's eyes and their heart and you can see that's exactly how they feel.

TULLIS: Oh, absolutely, no doubt.

KAGAN: Marsha Gilmer Tullis with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children thank you for your time today.

TULLIS: Thank you.

KAGAN: Much appreciate it.

We're going to move on now to some international news and the search for Saddam Hussein and the hunt for Osama bin Laden. Can the U.S. land two big fish at the same time? We'll take a closer look.

Plus, terror threats against the airlines, is cost standing in the way of proper security? We will take a closer look at that.

And, how about the Rolling Stones, AC/DC, and Justin Timberlake, what are they doing hanging out in Canada? The rock benefit that is drawing huge crowds, we're going there live.

But first, here is today's news quiz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN (voice-over): Who drew the largest crowd in history at a free rock concert? Was it the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Rod Stewart, or Simon & Garfunkel? The answer is coming up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Turning now to the hunt for Saddam Hussein, he is on the run but the CIA says that audio tape that was released yesterday is probably the real deal.

Let's go live to the Pentagon and our Correspondent Barbara Starr for more on that -- Barbara, hello.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Daryn.

Well, indeed, the hunt goes on and President Bush in that Rose Garden press conference earlier today expressing some cautious optimism about how close U.S. troops have come to capturing Saddam Hussein.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I don't know how close we are to getting Saddam Hussein. You know, it's closer than we were yesterday I guess. All I know is we're on the hunt. It's like if you'd have asked me right before we got his sons how close we were to getting his sons, I'd say I don't know but we're on the hunt and we're making progress, slowly but surely making progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: The CIA has now indeed compared that audio tape played on Arab television yesterday purported to be Saddam Hussein, compared it to other audio tapes, known recordings of his voice. They've compared the voice patterns, the cadences and they say there is a very great likelihood indeed it is Saddam Hussein.

He speaks about the death of his sons last week, so further confirmation to the Iraqi people that Saddam Hussein's sons are dead but also further confirmation that Saddam Hussein is still alive -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara, meanwhile while we've been hearing so much about the hunt for Saddam Hussein we haven't heard a lot about the hunt for those weapons of mass destruction in recent weeks. What's new on that search?

STARR: We have a little news to tell you on that front. Now, David Kay, the CIA's chief in charge of looking for those weapons of mass destruction inside Iraq, as well as senior Pentagon officials, will testify tomorrow on Capitol Hill, classified sessions behind closed doors but there is an early look at what they plan to say.

They will tell Senators that there is no smoking gun so far, no concrete evidence that they have found. They have nothing in hand that is chemical or biological material.

But, they also will say there is evidence of what they say is an active program that Saddam Hussein had and they will point to several factors that back this up we are told and that is a series of interrogations and documents that have come into U.S. hands in recent weeks and they say that they will talk about three things.

Sources tell CNN that there are documents on how Iraq planned to quickly destroy stockpiles of WMD, documents on how Iraq planned to quickly shift its dual-use facilities from commercial to weapons production, all part of Iraq's deception program.

And, also, documents on how Iraq planned to reconstitute its weapons program if there was to be some attack or some effort that they had to make to dismantle it in the face of inspections. So, a status report tomorrow will say they have an active program but still no smoking gun. KAGAN: All right, thanks for the advance preview on that. We will look forward to that, Barbara thank you.

Well, that latest audio tape may not have the desired effect in Iraq where U.S. troops continue the hunt for Saddam. Our Rym Brahimi is live in Baghdad -- Rym.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the meantime, in the residential area of Mansor, a demonstration against U.S. military, many people protesting the way Iraqi civilians are handled by the Iraqi forces this after a botched raid turned tragic when at least three Iraqi civilians were killed. Apparently, they were going to church and didn't realize that the area where a commando force was conducting a raid had been cordoned off.

Well, in the meantime, a lot of other raids have taken place in the last 24 hours in Iraq, many of them in the area of Tikrit, which is the hometown of Saddam Hussein, U.S. military officials saying they're closing in on the former Iraqi leader.

They've also been able to get a lot of information, they say, as well as a lot of weapons in several raids conducted in various areas in Iraq. That said Iraq remains a dangerous place.

A lot of people are still armed and the attacks against U.S. soldiers continue, several attacks against U.S. soldiers not only in Baghdad but in the north of the country as well, U.S. military officials calling on U.S. soldiers to avoid certain areas unless they have urgent business to do there.

(on camera): Rym Brahimi, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Well, you might not realize it but Iraqis today actually got a new president, at least for the time being as Secretary of State Powell made it very clear that Saddam Hussein is history.

Let's go live now to Andrea Koppel who is at the State Department. So, there's a new president in Iraq, huh Andrea?

ANDREW KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a manner of speaking, Daryn, but Secretary of State Powell actually repeated a mantra that's become sort of the favorite of administration officials in the last week or so.

He said that the noose is tightening around Saddam Hussein and, as proof, he pointed to the recent arrest of Saddam Hussein's closest confidantes and bodyguard and Secretary Powell said he'd prefer not to focus on Saddam Hussein himself's whereabouts. Rather, he said he wanted to focus on a lot of the good things that are happening in Iraq these days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) POWELL: Slowly but surely the infrastructure is being put back in place. Slowly but surely Ambassador Bremer and his team are successfully starting up economic activity and a political process is underway and the international community is coming in all ways to support this effort and that's the good news and Saddam Hussein is no longer bad news. He's a piece of trash waiting to be collected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: Now on a related note, Daryn, as you mentioned in Baghdad today the governing council, that's the 25 member body recently established by the U.S. occupation authority to advise the U.S. decided today that its presidency would rotate among a nine member leadership committee, which is made up of five Shiite Muslims, dominant religious group as you know in Iraq; four Sunni Muslims including two Kurds -- back to you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Andrea Koppel at the State Department, Andrea thank you for that.

Coming up, as the United States hunts for Saddam, is the hunt for Osama bin Laden taking a back seat? Do American forces have the resources to chase after the al Qaeda leader? Mike Boettcher looks at that just ahead.

Also ahead, new clues in the case of a slain basketball player, find out about the autopsy report what that reveals.

And then, coming out on gay marriage, hear why President Bush is talking to his lawyers on this issue.

And, the Kobe Bryant case the judge rules on whether the public will be watching.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: All right, we have more news coming in now. We've just received more information on just how much the access -- actually how much access the media will have in tomorrow's hearing in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case.

Our Deborah Feyerick is in Eagle, Colorado with more on this -- Deb, hello.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Daryn.

Well, the judge has given the green light to have a camera in the courtroom tomorrow. That's when the judge is going to be hearing arguments on whether to open the file on Kobe Bryant.

Right now, everything is sealed. The media wants all the documents made public. The district attorney and Kobe Bryant's defense team say they don't want these documents made public because they say it will generate way too much pretrial publicity and could hurt Kobe Bryant's right to a fair trial. The judge said, uh uh, so a camera will be in the courtroom. Now, if the judge does open his file one of the first documents that will be available will be the arrest warrant affidavit. That is the document that the district attorney used to file the charges against Kobe Bryant.

It would include statements that the young woman made as to what happened that night, also physical evidence, for example scratches, bruises, and it would include the young woman's demeanor at the time she went to police to tell her what happened. Was she crying or was she calm?

Now, also today, a very well respected prosecutor has joined the defense attorney -- the district attorney, I'm sorry. She is an expert on sexual assault cases -- Daryn.

KAGAN: So, Deborah, we know there will be a camera in the courtroom but what about Kobe Bryant? Will he be in the courtroom?

FEYERICK: No. Kobe Bryant does not have to show tomorrow and, as a matter of fact, there's still a question as to whether he's going to show next Wednesday for his initial appearance. What often happens is that the lawyers try to get a waiver from the district attorney. The district attorney could grant one if, for example, he thinks there could be just way too much attention happening on that day.

KAGAN: All right, Deborah Feyerick in Eagle, Colorado, we'll look forward to those proceedings tomorrow. Thank you for that, Deb.

Other news now, a preliminary autopsy report is out on Baylor University basketball player Patrick Dennehy. His decomposed body was found Friday near Waco, Texas. Our Mike Brooks is in Waco and he has the latest on that autopsy report which sounds absolutely gruesome -- Mike.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is, Daryn.

Earlier this morning, Justice of the Peace Belinda Summers, a judge here in McLennan County, released a preliminary autopsy report with the cause of death. In the report it says an autopsy was performed and the cause of death is gunshot wounds of the head. They say wounds. I found out from a source that it was possibly two -- it was two, possibly three shots that killed Patrick Dennehy.

Now, the other interesting piece in this, Daryn, is that it says that the place of death and that the place of discovery of the body were both one and the same. Investigators earlier on were hinting that they thought that he was shot where the body was found. It now confirmed it in this particular report.

We also have heard from a source that it's a possibility that they're looking, that investigators are looking at other people involved in this, besides Carlton Dotson who sits in jail in Kent County accused of his murder. So, as the report is released we're getting a little more information and this case is far from over -- Daryn.

KAGAN: That it is. Mike Brooks in Waco, thank you for that.

We are hot on the trail of Saddam Hussein but what about Osama bin Laden? Find out how the world's most notorious terrorist is eluding capture.

Also, President Bush comes out on gay marriage hear his plans to stop it from happening.

And, the prime minister versus the horse, see how this wild ride came to an end.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, welcome back to CNN. The hunt for Osama bin Laden -- is Saddam Hussein throwing U.S. forces off that mission? We're going to take a closer look at that.

But first, let's check out the latest headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

KAGAN: Well, it is just weeks after the war in Iraq and U.S. forces say they are closing in on Saddam Hussein. Yet almost two years into the war on terror, Osama bin Laden remains as elusive as ever. Why the disparity here?

Our national correspondent Mike Boettcher has some answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. troops on the hunt for Saddam Hussein, missing him by just a matter of hours, we're told. They're confident they are closing in on the former Iraqi leader.

Along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border, U.S. troops on the hunt for Osama bin Laden. While visiting the area, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff expressing confidence that progress is being made in finding bin Laden.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: He's, no doubt, being very careful how he moves.

BOETTCHER: In both cases, recent successes. U.S. troops killing Saddam's sons in Iraq and Pakistani forces capturing al Qaeda's operational commander, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. And in each manhunt, they've narrowed down the area where they're looking for their prime target. In Iraq, to an area around Baghdad and Tikrit; and with bin Laden, to areas along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border.

So why does it seem so much harder to get close to bin Laden?

KEN ROBINSON, SECURITY ANALYST: The two situations are totally different.

BOETTCHER: CNN national security analyst Ken Robinson says terrain is one reason. It is easier to go after Saddam because the area he might be in is flat, easy for troops to operate in. Not so in the area where bin Laden is believed hiding.

ROBINSON: The aircraft don't have the ability to loiter over some of those targets in those lawless areas without having to go back and refuel.

BOETTCHER: Another important difference? The U.S. can't act alone in hunting bin Laden. It must rely in large part on Pakistan.

Then there's human intelligence. Not much there in the hunt for bin Laden, and no takers so far on the $25 million reward on either side of the Afghan/Pakistan border.

But Saddam Hussein is swimming in a much less loyal sea, says Robinson. And already someone has given up his sons for $30 million. Lots of people are talking right now in Iraq.

ROBINSON: The Shia being 60 -- potentially 60 percent, they have incentive to try to influence what post-war Iraq is going to look like., and many of those folks have no love lost for Saddam Hussein and are the sources of much of the human intelligence which is coming into the coalition right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOETTCHER: Another reason the trail has been much colder in the case of Osama bin Laden, military sources tell CNN that Special Operations Forces and CIA operatives needed for that job are currently in Iraq, looking for Saddam Hussein.

KAGAN: Mike, I have so many questions for you. We have a live event we need to go to.

BOETTCHER: That's fine.

KAGAN: So I'll just save my questions for another time.

(INTERRUPTED BY CNN COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)]

KAGAN: We've been listening to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who is coming out of one of his weekly meetings with law makers on Capital Hill.

As we wrap that up, we move on to other news, including our resources also spread too thin on the home front, along with warnings of a plot to attack commercial airlines. Now there's concerns about cutbacks in the federal air marshal program.

Let's bring in Jeanne Meserve in Washington, to tell us more about this potential conflict. Jeanne, hello.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Daryn, that reported contrast was too delectable or too disturbing for congressional Democrats to pass up. They said reports of cutbacks in the federal air marshal program demonstrated that the administration is not spending enough on Homeland Security, and particularly on the Transportation Security Administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: They are cutting into the bone right now. When they need -- when they don't have enough money to fund air marshals, which was one of the things we talked about the most right after 9/11, as a way of preventing another 9/11 from happening, then you know that there's no fat in this agency and they are cutting into bone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: The Transportation Security Administration is in a bind with a budget shortfall this year of around $900 million. And it does want to shift money away from the air marshals program. That would postpone advanced training for air marshals, as well as some hiring. But road blocks are already being put up on Capitol Hill. Meanwhile, the Department of Homeland Security insists the same number of missions is being flown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: America should know that every air marshal that we have is being deployed and additional resources are being directed to that very critical mission. America should also know, and I suggest they probably share this point of view that after Flight 93, it is doubtful that any group of passengers would let any would-be hijacker take over their plane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: Now word that the undersecretary of Border and Transportation Security has written a letter to the head of the TSA saying air marshal deployment should be maintained on domestic and international flights consistent with available threat information and authorizing the expansion of deployments, even if that means soliciting help from other federal law enforcement agencies. Daryn back to you.

KAGAN: Jeanne, thanks for the latest on that.

I also want our viewers to know you can join CNN tonight at 8:00 Eastern for live from the headlines. Paula Zahn will bring you a special, travel terror and how it affects you.

President Bush weighs in on gay marriage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: But should there be a federal law to ban same-sex unions? That debate when we come back.

Also, the hottest names in rock'n'roll gather in Canada. Find out what's bringing together the Stones, AC/DC and Justin Timberlake are going to Toronto Live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, for the second time this month, President Bush today spoke out on the controversial issue of gay marriage. He says he opposes same-sex marriage. He did, though, stop short of passing any moral judgment on homosexuality.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I think it's very important for our society to respect each individual, to welcome those with good hearts, to be a welcoming country.

On the other hand, that does not mean that somebody like me needs to compromise on issues such as marriage. And that's really where the issue is headed here in Washington, and that is the definition of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. And I think we ought to codify that one way or the other. And we've got lawyers looking at the best way to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And so the president is talking about perhaps making it a federal law that would be against same-sex marriage.

Joining us now to talk about the president's remarks, Corey Johnson, the producer and co-host of the "John McMullen Show." His story about being a gay high school football team captain was widely documented in the national media. Also with us, Genevieve Wood, vice president of media relations at the Family Research Council. Good afternoon to both of you and thanks for being with us.

COREY JOHNSON, PRODUCER, CO-HOST, "THE JOHN MCMULLEN SHOW": Thank you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Corey, I want to go ahead and start with you. Disappointing or surprising to hear President Bush's remarks today?

JOHNSON: Well, completely disappointing. The president talked about marriage between a man and a woman. I believe and many gay and lesbian people around this country believe marriage is about love. Love between two consensual adults, and that is what this should be about. It shouldn't be about religion. If you are a religious institution and you want to marry a man and a woman, that is fine. But if I want to go down to city hall with my partner or boyfriend and get a contract that says that I can be married, I should be able to do that. It's equality under the law, and we're going to see it very soon, and President Bush looking back on history will wish he was on the right side of things. KAGAN: Genevieve, let's bring you in here. I'm sure you are all in favor of love, but I also would imagine that you are pleased with what you heard from President Bush today.

GENEVIEVE WOOD, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, we did appreciate what President Bush said today. And I think that he represents what the overwhelming majority of Americans believe, which is that marriage is between a man and a woman. Look, there's a lot of other relationships out there that involve love. Best friends, for instance. But we don't privilege the relationship of best friends or any other type of relationship...

JOHNSON: There's no comparison.

WOOD: The way that we do man and woman getting married, because we've decided not only in this society, but throughout all of history that the best way for a stable society to exist is to have strong families, and to provide safe places to raise children.

JOHNSON: And gay and lesbian people have strong families. Gay and lesbian families raise children.

WOOD: Throughout history, it's been a man and a woman relationship, and we've done that, and that's why we give special benefits to marriage. It's not because we like married people better than others. It's because we believe as a society and as government it promotes stable families. And so we privilege it.

JOHNSON: Gay and lesbian people, by and large, you can find them in every county, every city, every town across America. We're your brothers, your sisters, your sons, your daughters and we should be able to enter into loving relationships just like everyone else.

WOOD: And you can enter into ...

(CROSSTALK)

KAGAN: Let Genevieve go. Go ahead.

WOOD: The only difference is, as the president says. Look, you have got a right to enter those relationships, but you don't have a right to demand that the public, the government, churches, other public institutions recognize your relationship as on the same level as a man and woman getting married. If businesses want to grant those partnerships, domestic partnerships, they can do that. The society doesn't have to give you that special blessing that we give to men and women who make the commitment to get married.

KAGAN: Let me just jump in here a second, Genevieve. I just want to turn it into a political question here. If he is talking about a federal law, this is from a president that often likes to talk about state's rights and local communities making their decision. Let's say that if perhaps folks in Vermont want to be able to have gays be able to marry but folks in Kansas don't. Why shouldn't it be a state issue? Why should there be a federal law against this? WOOD: Well, because I think as a country and as a society, this is a question of the definition of marriage. It's not something that we just get to redefine and make up depending on what state we live in. But having said that, Daryn, 37 states have taken that question to their state legislatures and the voters, and they said, look, we want to ban same-sex marriage in our state, and in 37 states that's exactly what voters and legislatures have done. That's also what Bill Clinton signed back in 1996. It didn't forbid homosexual relationships, but it forbids them being deemed married under U.S. law, and it said that if one state passes gay marriage, another state doesn't have to recognize it.

KAGAN: I have one minute left here, before I want to bring you back in here. It was just about a month ago the gay community was so encouraged with the U.S. Supreme Court coming out against the anti- sodomy laws in Texas in Lawrence versus Texas.

Do you think the president's remarks and also what we're hearing in a lot of polls, this is backlash about people concerned about what they heard coming out of the supreme court?

JOHNSON: I think there was a lot of publicity and media around the wonderful decision that the Supreme Court ruled upon. And I think that going forward, if you look at Justice Kennedy's opinion, a conservative on that court, talks about homosexual people, gay and lesbian people cannot be demeaned under the law any forward. And very soon, Daryn. And very soon Genevieve, (sic) looking into the future, America is going to realize that marriage is about love. It's about men and men and women and women and men and women getting together and getting their consensual relationships recognized. We are going to see it. I hope that President Bush and you Genevieve (sic) will be...

WOOD: It's Genevieve, but that's not the point. The point here is the reason you saw a drop in those poll numbers which CNN did is that I think Americans saw, you know what, if we start redefining the institution of marriage it means we don't stop at gay marriage. It means anybody who loves each other and wants to form a family according to those folks, can call themselves married. And a lot of Americans said, we don't want to go down that path.

And that's going to be the last word.

JOHNSON: It's not a path. It's about love and...

KAGAN: And that's going to be the last word. It is the last word, Corey. Corey, it is the last word. I am, sorry, I gave you the first chance and I had to give Genevieve the last word. Thanks to both. Genevieve Wood and Corey Johnson, thanks for being with us. Appreciate your views from both of you.

Now, it's your turn to weigh in on this story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this, should there be a federal law to ban same-sex marriage?

We are going to have the results later in this broadcast. You though can go ahead and vote right now. Go to cnn.com/wolf. The stones are there and hundreds of thousands of fans are there as well. They are rocking like crazy in Toronto. We're going to go there to tell you live what they are singing and what they are dancing about in Toronto.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Earlier we asked, who drew the largest crowd in history at a free rock concert. The answer: Rod Stewart. His 1994 New Year's eve beach concert in Rio De Janeiro drew an estimated 3.5 million fans. Now, I cannot believe a single one of you out there guessed that Rod Stewart was the right answer out there, and yet, it is.

Well, it's happening right now, hundreds of thousands of rock fans are packed into a Toronto park. They are there for a star- studded concert aimed at showing the Canadian city of Toronto is free of SARS. Headlining the 11-hour bash will be the Rolling Stones. Our Kendis Gibson somehow managed to score a great assignment yet again. And he's in the thick of things in Toronto.

Kendis, hello.

KENDIS GIBSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT AND CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: I'm telling you I've got a good agent. I'm stunned by that 3.5 million for a Rod Stewart concert.

KAGAN: First concert I ever went to was Rod Stewart, but not that one.

Hey, that's a great thing. Take a look, this might be a first concert for a number of people out there. About a half million people, the unofficial count that we're getting right now from organizers gathered here on the north end of Toronto to see a host of different acts, 15 different acts in all. Actually, you know what, probably the biggest act to have hit the stage so far I'd say is probably Justin Timberlake. And he's gotten mixed reaction from the crowd. Some people were cheering. During his first set I saw some water bottles flown on stage while he was performing. He is here in Toronto for a concert with Kristina Aguilera. Most of the folks deciding to come here to try to help out this city, which has really been hit so hard with the SARS epidemic. $50 million expected to be made by this concert here. A drop in the bucket when you compare it to the billion dollars in losses the city has suffered since February, when so many people were killed as a result of the SARS epidemic. In the meantime, though, Justin Timberlake there on stage. A lot of other acts. It's going to be a real rock show from here on. AC/DC and then, the grandfathers of rock and roll, the Rolling Stones hitting the stage around 9:45 Eastern time.

Daryn, throw it back to you.

KAGAN: Mick Jagger turned 60 last week. Hopefully he'll make it through just fine.

GIBSON: We can only hope.

Kendis, thank you for that. You enjoy. You deserve it.

Our hot web question of the day is this, should there be a federal law to ban same-sex marriage?

We're getting thousands of votes. Vote right now, cnn.com/wolf. The results right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: All right, just enough time to check in on the "Web Question of the Day" to see how you are weighing in. Remember we have been asking you this.

Should there be a federal law to ban same-sex marriage?

Lots of votes coming in. Twenty-one percent of you say, yes, there should be a federal, 79 percent of you said, no. You can check are vote tally at cnn.com/wolf.

As always we tell you of course this is not a scientific poll, just a place to express you opinion.

A reminder you can always watch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, weekdays at this time 5:00 Eastern. I will be here again tomorrow. Until then thanks for joining us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Indiana; Iraq Gets New President>