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CNN Live At Daybreak
Gay on Display: Small Screen Staples
Aired July 31, 2003 - 06:49 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It's not just Jack anymore, gay theme programs are a major presence on the small screen. Sitcoms like "Ellen" and "Will & Grace" pioneered the movement towards gay friendly TV fare. And now reality TV is getting in on the trend with hit shows like Bravo's "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and "Boy Meets Boy." So it seems gay is all the rage. And we want to talk more about that this morning.
With us live from Boston is Congressman Barney Frank and from Washington we're joined by Sandy Rios, President of Concerned Women for America.
Welcome to you both.
REP. BARNEY FRANK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Thank you.
SANDY RIOS, PRESIDENT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: Thank you -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know in just a few years we've gone from "Touched by an Angel" to "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." Has there been a seismic culture change -- Congressman?
FRANK: Well there's been a broadening. We still have the other earlier programs. What you have is television that represents American reality. I'm not a great fan, excuse me, of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." I don't like that show. I haven't seen it and don't plan to. But what you get in television...
COSTELLO: Oh no, we're having technical difficulties from Boston. We'll try to get up Congressman Frank's shot again.
But, Sue, let me ask you this, it does seem Americans are becoming ever more tolerant of homosexuality.
RIOS: You know we thought that until the USA-Gallop poll came out just yesterday and they showed us that actually in the last 30 days or the last two months, Americans are changing their attitudes. And I think the reason is that they are having such an onslaught of homosexual material.
You know I remember when I was watching the movie "Frida" and I saw Ashley Judd kiss Salma Hayek and it was, you know, we're not ready for that. We are really not ready for that. And I think with the onslaught of gay marriage in Canada and these television shows, people are responding. In fact, especially... COSTELLO: Well let me interrupt for just a second because these TV shows are amazingly popular. "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" was so popular on Bravo that they moved it over to NBC.
RIOS: Yes, Carol, I think the reason for that is because they're not -- you know it's kind of the gay light. And you know they are very talented. Everybody is talented. They are not talented because they are gay, they are talented because they happen to be gay, but they are talented people.
COSTELLO: But you have to admit there is more of a tolerance for the gay lifestyle.
RIOS: I think there has been, but I think there is a backlash.
But let me point something out, Carol. You know remember when television was pretty innocent and we laughed about it in the '50s, you know, with Dick Van Dyke and all those other shows. But suddenly we started having themes of adultery in television. And I remember telling my son when he was growing up, sweetheart, watch this, it looks great. I mean it's very enticing. But what they don't show is the next morning when that man goes back home to his wife and his children and looks in their faces. And in this case,...
COSTELLO: Well let's get back to...
RIOS: ... in this broadcasting, they don't go the full -- they don't -- they show gay life. They don't show what happens when gay men go from partner to partner and have their hearts broken. They don't show when they get HIV/AIDS and their friends die.
COSTELLO: Well they don't show really gay relationships at all. They do show...
RIOS: Exactly. Exactly.
COSTELLO: And let me interrupt you for just a second, I want to get back to the matter at hand. I want to play the sound bite from President Bush's press conference in the Rose Garden about gay marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. And I think we ought to codify that one way or the other. And we've got lawyers looking at the best way to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: You heard what the president said, of course he's against gay marriage. And there is some talk about adding an amendment to the constitution.
We have Congressman Barney Frank back, so I'm going to address that to him. He's on the phone with us right now. Congressman, do you think there ought to be an amendment added to the Constitution banning gay marriage?
FRANK: No, and in fact Vice President Cheney, frankly, when he was campaigning one month before the election in 2000, opposed that. And I think it would be a great disappointment if the Bush administration were to repudiate that promise. He was debating Senator Lieberman, and he said very clearly this should be left to the states. It's been up to the states, they'll come to different opinions and he said there shouldn't -- there will be a federal policy on the subject.
I think what's happened is, frankly, things aren't going well for the Bush administration. Iraq has been a real disappointment for all of us in the way things have turned out since the end of the major part of the war. The economy is limping along, and I think the president has decided to change the subject. But I am particularly disappointed that he would say look, 200 years of American history goes out the window, states have always had the right to make this decision, and Dick Cheney reaffirmed that in 2000. And now I think Karl Rove must have said to the president look, you've got to change this subject very quickly because we're not doing well in the other areas. I think this is a matter to be left to the states.
COSTELLO: Sue, do you think that something like that belongs as an amendment to the Constitution?
RIOS: Carol, it's Sandy, but...
COSTELLO: I'm sorry.
RIOS: ... you know I think a good amendment -- I think a good amendment to the Constitution is in order. The one that is being proposed right now is not strong enough for our taste. A federal marriage amendment would be very important. We need to stop gay marriage. It is not normal. In fact, Greece and Rome, as perverse as they were, never embraced gay marriage. And we have forgotten our history. This is not natural, it's not normal and a society is built on family, man, woman and children. It is the building block of society. And if we start tearing that down, we will see our civilization crumble as did those earlier ones.
COSTELLO: And, Congressman, Sandy mentioned something about a backlash that's going on right now. You know the Catholic Church is coming out with a document that urges Catholic politicians to try to introduce legislation banning gay marriage. Has a backlash begun?
FRANK: Well let me first refute what she said about tearing down the family. That's, of course, just nonsense and it's somewhat bigoted. How does the fact that two women who love each other in Vermont are able legally to become responsible for each other interfere with the ability of the great heterosexual majority to be married? Nothing about allowing two people to express their love for each other legally as well as financially interferes with other people. Vermont has had similar unions for a few years. People like your other guest talked about how this is going to be terrible. I guarantee you that there has been no deterioration in the family in Vermont. They haven't destroyed marriages. This is just an argument that has no basis, because letting two people do what they are driven to do by their own needs doesn't affect what other people do. No one is talking about in any way...
COSTELLO: Well,...
FRANK: ... detracting from heterosexual marriage.
COSTELLO: Well, Congressman, let me ask you this, if you feel so strongly about it, do you plan to introduce any sort of legislation that would allow gay marriage in the United States?
FRANK: I already have. In -- I think it ought to be up to the states. In 1996, Congress did pass a law saying that if any state recognized a same sex marriage the federal government wouldn't recognize that. I thought that was wrong and I filed legislation to change it.
I'll go back to Dick Cheney, because Cheney said the same thing that I'm saying. He's been forced by political pressure to back away. I think this is a matter for the states.
If Vermont -- let's look at Vermont. And I wish people would go back and look at the arguments of the kind that your guest is now making about how terrible this was going to be for Vermont. Frankly, I think if you were a heterosexual and you haven't been following the newspapers and you moved to Vermont tomorrow, you wouldn't know there was such a thing as similar unions or same sex couples because it doesn't affect you. You are free to marry, you are free to do anything you want.
RIOS: Congressman Frank,...
COSTELLO: Sandy, get the last word in because we have to go.
RIOS: Yes. Well, it's a little too early. It's only been an order for about two years and there has been a backlash in Vermont, a very big backlash among families.
FRANK: Have families been hurt?
RIOS: And he's not telling you that part of it.
FRANK: OK, and he's been hurt in Vermont?
RIOS: We are too early into this, Congressman. You can not declare this civilization as thriving in two years.
COSTELLO: All right, unfortunately we're going to have to end this debate. And I'm sure it will go on all day long on CNN and other networks in this country.
Sandy Rios live from Washington. Congressman Barney Frank live from Boston, and we're sorry about that shot that went down.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 31, 2003 - 06:49 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It's not just Jack anymore, gay theme programs are a major presence on the small screen. Sitcoms like "Ellen" and "Will & Grace" pioneered the movement towards gay friendly TV fare. And now reality TV is getting in on the trend with hit shows like Bravo's "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" and "Boy Meets Boy." So it seems gay is all the rage. And we want to talk more about that this morning.
With us live from Boston is Congressman Barney Frank and from Washington we're joined by Sandy Rios, President of Concerned Women for America.
Welcome to you both.
REP. BARNEY FRANK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Thank you.
SANDY RIOS, PRESIDENT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: Thank you -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know in just a few years we've gone from "Touched by an Angel" to "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." Has there been a seismic culture change -- Congressman?
FRANK: Well there's been a broadening. We still have the other earlier programs. What you have is television that represents American reality. I'm not a great fan, excuse me, of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." I don't like that show. I haven't seen it and don't plan to. But what you get in television...
COSTELLO: Oh no, we're having technical difficulties from Boston. We'll try to get up Congressman Frank's shot again.
But, Sue, let me ask you this, it does seem Americans are becoming ever more tolerant of homosexuality.
RIOS: You know we thought that until the USA-Gallop poll came out just yesterday and they showed us that actually in the last 30 days or the last two months, Americans are changing their attitudes. And I think the reason is that they are having such an onslaught of homosexual material.
You know I remember when I was watching the movie "Frida" and I saw Ashley Judd kiss Salma Hayek and it was, you know, we're not ready for that. We are really not ready for that. And I think with the onslaught of gay marriage in Canada and these television shows, people are responding. In fact, especially... COSTELLO: Well let me interrupt for just a second because these TV shows are amazingly popular. "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" was so popular on Bravo that they moved it over to NBC.
RIOS: Yes, Carol, I think the reason for that is because they're not -- you know it's kind of the gay light. And you know they are very talented. Everybody is talented. They are not talented because they are gay, they are talented because they happen to be gay, but they are talented people.
COSTELLO: But you have to admit there is more of a tolerance for the gay lifestyle.
RIOS: I think there has been, but I think there is a backlash.
But let me point something out, Carol. You know remember when television was pretty innocent and we laughed about it in the '50s, you know, with Dick Van Dyke and all those other shows. But suddenly we started having themes of adultery in television. And I remember telling my son when he was growing up, sweetheart, watch this, it looks great. I mean it's very enticing. But what they don't show is the next morning when that man goes back home to his wife and his children and looks in their faces. And in this case,...
COSTELLO: Well let's get back to...
RIOS: ... in this broadcasting, they don't go the full -- they don't -- they show gay life. They don't show what happens when gay men go from partner to partner and have their hearts broken. They don't show when they get HIV/AIDS and their friends die.
COSTELLO: Well they don't show really gay relationships at all. They do show...
RIOS: Exactly. Exactly.
COSTELLO: And let me interrupt you for just a second, I want to get back to the matter at hand. I want to play the sound bite from President Bush's press conference in the Rose Garden about gay marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. And I think we ought to codify that one way or the other. And we've got lawyers looking at the best way to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: You heard what the president said, of course he's against gay marriage. And there is some talk about adding an amendment to the constitution.
We have Congressman Barney Frank back, so I'm going to address that to him. He's on the phone with us right now. Congressman, do you think there ought to be an amendment added to the Constitution banning gay marriage?
FRANK: No, and in fact Vice President Cheney, frankly, when he was campaigning one month before the election in 2000, opposed that. And I think it would be a great disappointment if the Bush administration were to repudiate that promise. He was debating Senator Lieberman, and he said very clearly this should be left to the states. It's been up to the states, they'll come to different opinions and he said there shouldn't -- there will be a federal policy on the subject.
I think what's happened is, frankly, things aren't going well for the Bush administration. Iraq has been a real disappointment for all of us in the way things have turned out since the end of the major part of the war. The economy is limping along, and I think the president has decided to change the subject. But I am particularly disappointed that he would say look, 200 years of American history goes out the window, states have always had the right to make this decision, and Dick Cheney reaffirmed that in 2000. And now I think Karl Rove must have said to the president look, you've got to change this subject very quickly because we're not doing well in the other areas. I think this is a matter to be left to the states.
COSTELLO: Sue, do you think that something like that belongs as an amendment to the Constitution?
RIOS: Carol, it's Sandy, but...
COSTELLO: I'm sorry.
RIOS: ... you know I think a good amendment -- I think a good amendment to the Constitution is in order. The one that is being proposed right now is not strong enough for our taste. A federal marriage amendment would be very important. We need to stop gay marriage. It is not normal. In fact, Greece and Rome, as perverse as they were, never embraced gay marriage. And we have forgotten our history. This is not natural, it's not normal and a society is built on family, man, woman and children. It is the building block of society. And if we start tearing that down, we will see our civilization crumble as did those earlier ones.
COSTELLO: And, Congressman, Sandy mentioned something about a backlash that's going on right now. You know the Catholic Church is coming out with a document that urges Catholic politicians to try to introduce legislation banning gay marriage. Has a backlash begun?
FRANK: Well let me first refute what she said about tearing down the family. That's, of course, just nonsense and it's somewhat bigoted. How does the fact that two women who love each other in Vermont are able legally to become responsible for each other interfere with the ability of the great heterosexual majority to be married? Nothing about allowing two people to express their love for each other legally as well as financially interferes with other people. Vermont has had similar unions for a few years. People like your other guest talked about how this is going to be terrible. I guarantee you that there has been no deterioration in the family in Vermont. They haven't destroyed marriages. This is just an argument that has no basis, because letting two people do what they are driven to do by their own needs doesn't affect what other people do. No one is talking about in any way...
COSTELLO: Well,...
FRANK: ... detracting from heterosexual marriage.
COSTELLO: Well, Congressman, let me ask you this, if you feel so strongly about it, do you plan to introduce any sort of legislation that would allow gay marriage in the United States?
FRANK: I already have. In -- I think it ought to be up to the states. In 1996, Congress did pass a law saying that if any state recognized a same sex marriage the federal government wouldn't recognize that. I thought that was wrong and I filed legislation to change it.
I'll go back to Dick Cheney, because Cheney said the same thing that I'm saying. He's been forced by political pressure to back away. I think this is a matter for the states.
If Vermont -- let's look at Vermont. And I wish people would go back and look at the arguments of the kind that your guest is now making about how terrible this was going to be for Vermont. Frankly, I think if you were a heterosexual and you haven't been following the newspapers and you moved to Vermont tomorrow, you wouldn't know there was such a thing as similar unions or same sex couples because it doesn't affect you. You are free to marry, you are free to do anything you want.
RIOS: Congressman Frank,...
COSTELLO: Sandy, get the last word in because we have to go.
RIOS: Yes. Well, it's a little too early. It's only been an order for about two years and there has been a backlash in Vermont, a very big backlash among families.
FRANK: Have families been hurt?
RIOS: And he's not telling you that part of it.
FRANK: OK, and he's been hurt in Vermont?
RIOS: We are too early into this, Congressman. You can not declare this civilization as thriving in two years.
COSTELLO: All right, unfortunately we're going to have to end this debate. And I'm sure it will go on all day long on CNN and other networks in this country.
Sandy Rios live from Washington. Congressman Barney Frank live from Boston, and we're sorry about that shot that went down.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
