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American Morning
Judge in Bryant Case Should Reconsider Decorum Rules Set
Aired July 31, 2003 - 09:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The judge in the Kobe Bryant case is setting some ground rules for the media. He says anybody using the accuser's name or her picture could be on the outside looking in at the court proceedings.
The judge's orders has raised some First Amendment concerns as well and CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is back to object this morning. Good morning and welcome back, I should say.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.
O'BRIEN: He calls it a "decorum order." It runs three pages long. And I want to just kind of go through some of the highlights or, as some people in the media think, the low lights of the decorum order. "The media shall not contact, in an attempt to interview, any parties, their families, witnesses, prospective jurors, jurors or court staff at the Eagle County Justice Center."
Second part: "Any media or other person who broadcasts, publishes or otherwise disseminates an image or name of such a person may be subject to exclusion from certain proceedings and other legal sanctions."
And, third: "Any person who attempts to or does operate any camera, cell phone, video phone or any other recording or transmitting device within the courthouse shall be removed from the premises."
Let's start with the first one. Why do you object to the fact that the media that is not allowed to do interviews at the courthouse?
TOOBIN: You know, first of all, just about this order in general. I think Judge Gannett, who did this, he's trying to do -- make the best of a difficult situation. I have covered many of these high-profile trials. They are very disruptive. It is difficult to preserve decorum. So I think certainly his intentions were good.
The problem particularly with that first order is that it essentially prohibits those of us who will be there from talking to anyone involved with the case anywhere near the courtroom, in the courthouse or near the courtroom. And I think that is just excessive.
Lawyers and journalists interact all of the time during a trial. If you want to call that interaction an interview, which I guess it is, it's simply an ordinary part of business and I think prohibiting it and threatening people with those sort of sanctions at this stage in the process is just -- it's too much. It's too much of a restriction.
O'BRIEN: The second part that we talked about where any media or person who broadcasts the image of -- and I'm sure they're really, specifically talking about the image of the alleged victim in this case, should either -- might either be yanked from the proceedings all together or face other legal sanctions. That raises tremendous First Amendment rights questions?
TOOBIN: It does. And it's the difference between sort of how we do things in practice and creating a legal rule about it.
All responsible journalists have observed the custom of not showing the photograph of the accuser, not using her name. However, once a judge, once the government starts telling you what you can and can't photograph, that is a real First Amendment problem. The government simply is not -- should not be in the business of telling the news media what to take pictures of and what not to.
So I think, again, his instincts were good trying to protect the accuser, but it was just an excessive, excessive attempt to regulate.
O'BRIEN: And in fact, the judge has said that he believes his order is somewhat draconian. So what do you think the chances are that he would reconsider and pull back a little bit?
TOOBIN: Think they're pretty good. In fact today at 2:15 Eastern time there's going to be a hearing in Eagle County, Colorado where these issues are going to be discussed. CNN will be covering this hearing live. And there, I think the judge has indicated he may modulate some of these requirements and I think that's a good thing. His instincts are good but I think he went just a little too far.
O'BRIEN: Quick final part. Last thing he says, no cell phone, no recording device. You think that's actually a good thing.
TOOBIN: That is good that, you know, all of us have been in places where cell phones go off. And there are judges, I've been in their courtrooms, where they confiscate them immediately. And I think that's probably a pretty good rule.
But again, what he said is you can't even bring a cell phone into the building. See, I can't -- that's the -- too much. Just turn the thing off.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jeff Toobin, thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 31, 2003 - 09:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The judge in the Kobe Bryant case is setting some ground rules for the media. He says anybody using the accuser's name or her picture could be on the outside looking in at the court proceedings.
The judge's orders has raised some First Amendment concerns as well and CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is back to object this morning. Good morning and welcome back, I should say.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.
O'BRIEN: He calls it a "decorum order." It runs three pages long. And I want to just kind of go through some of the highlights or, as some people in the media think, the low lights of the decorum order. "The media shall not contact, in an attempt to interview, any parties, their families, witnesses, prospective jurors, jurors or court staff at the Eagle County Justice Center."
Second part: "Any media or other person who broadcasts, publishes or otherwise disseminates an image or name of such a person may be subject to exclusion from certain proceedings and other legal sanctions."
And, third: "Any person who attempts to or does operate any camera, cell phone, video phone or any other recording or transmitting device within the courthouse shall be removed from the premises."
Let's start with the first one. Why do you object to the fact that the media that is not allowed to do interviews at the courthouse?
TOOBIN: You know, first of all, just about this order in general. I think Judge Gannett, who did this, he's trying to do -- make the best of a difficult situation. I have covered many of these high-profile trials. They are very disruptive. It is difficult to preserve decorum. So I think certainly his intentions were good.
The problem particularly with that first order is that it essentially prohibits those of us who will be there from talking to anyone involved with the case anywhere near the courtroom, in the courthouse or near the courtroom. And I think that is just excessive.
Lawyers and journalists interact all of the time during a trial. If you want to call that interaction an interview, which I guess it is, it's simply an ordinary part of business and I think prohibiting it and threatening people with those sort of sanctions at this stage in the process is just -- it's too much. It's too much of a restriction.
O'BRIEN: The second part that we talked about where any media or person who broadcasts the image of -- and I'm sure they're really, specifically talking about the image of the alleged victim in this case, should either -- might either be yanked from the proceedings all together or face other legal sanctions. That raises tremendous First Amendment rights questions?
TOOBIN: It does. And it's the difference between sort of how we do things in practice and creating a legal rule about it.
All responsible journalists have observed the custom of not showing the photograph of the accuser, not using her name. However, once a judge, once the government starts telling you what you can and can't photograph, that is a real First Amendment problem. The government simply is not -- should not be in the business of telling the news media what to take pictures of and what not to.
So I think, again, his instincts were good trying to protect the accuser, but it was just an excessive, excessive attempt to regulate.
O'BRIEN: And in fact, the judge has said that he believes his order is somewhat draconian. So what do you think the chances are that he would reconsider and pull back a little bit?
TOOBIN: Think they're pretty good. In fact today at 2:15 Eastern time there's going to be a hearing in Eagle County, Colorado where these issues are going to be discussed. CNN will be covering this hearing live. And there, I think the judge has indicated he may modulate some of these requirements and I think that's a good thing. His instincts are good but I think he went just a little too far.
O'BRIEN: Quick final part. Last thing he says, no cell phone, no recording device. You think that's actually a good thing.
TOOBIN: That is good that, you know, all of us have been in places where cell phones go off. And there are judges, I've been in their courtrooms, where they confiscate them immediately. And I think that's probably a pretty good rule.
But again, what he said is you can't even bring a cell phone into the building. See, I can't -- that's the -- too much. Just turn the thing off.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jeff Toobin, thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
