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American Morning
Gays and Marriage
Aired August 04, 2003 - 09:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The news in the Episcopal church is just one gay rights issue making headlines right now. President Bush raised the issue of gay marriage during a news conference last week. Mr. Bush said he committed to the idea of marriage as an institution between a man and a woman, and said his staff is looking for ways to codify that.
Senior analyst Jeff Greenfield is here now with a look at the political implications.
So, Jeff, tell us, where exactly does the president stand on this issue?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Heidi, we can look at Bush's comments at his press conference from a broader perspective. His fundamental approach, he and Karl Rove, has been to comfort the base, the conservative base, in a non-polarizing way. So he carries the conservative flag on root issues like the tax cut, but on spending for education and prescription drugs or in support for steel quotas, his disagrees with the conservative line. On abortion, he signs the partial-birth abortion ban, which most of the country is for. He blocks funding for family planning efforts that include abortion, but he doesn't personally go to the right to life rallies. Also like Reagan, he tends to address them by phone.
So when Bush on this issue says, we're all sinners, don't go for the moat in the other guy's eye if you've got a log your other eye. I don't think he was trying to say gays are sinners. I think he was trying to say live and let live.
But the White House and everybody else knows gay marriage politically is the figurative brick wall. None of the major Democratic wannabes supported it. President Clinton, probably the most pro-gay president ever, signed the Defense of Marriage Act. So even a simple statement of the president that he's looking into ways to codify that, it's a no-lose proposition politically. Democrats did are out on their year-long effort to rally their interest groups. There are some gay groups pushing the Democratic candidates because they're not for gay marriage.
So in my view, Bush gets the full red state, if you will, cultural divide advantage on this issue, and gets none of the notion that he's homophobic, that he's like Rick Santorum said and Santorum got some criticism, that he saw somehow out to get gays.
COLLINS: All right. Well, the CNN poll suggested that the support for civil unions for gays and lesbians has actually dropped sharply since the Supreme Court decision on sodomy laws. So what does that say about the gay marriage debate and how it might be linked to that case?
GREENFIELD: I think it's absolutely linked, because both friends and foes of that decision think of Justice Scalia who said this decision going to make gay marriage a lot more plausible a possibility. I think that pushes a whole lot of buttons. One conservative scholar explained that the country is conflicted. They don't want to persecute gays. Probably most people think they should have the same rights at others, that live and let live notion,but their own fear that marriage in general is an endangered institution, most people draw a very clear line on that issue.
Even Congressman Barney Frank, the first openly gay member of Congress, said, look, if you don't want to call it gay marriage, that's fine with me. Where I think it's really going to heat up is if a state supreme court, Massachusetts will be deciding this issue soon -- if a state Supreme Court says gays can marry, under a constitutional clause, every other state normally has to recognize the marriage laws of whatever state.
Now, if the courts ultimately say, look, states can't deny the gays right to have marriage recognized, because of what we said in that sodomy decision, there's no ground for it. It's going to take a constitutional amendment to change that. The Defense of Marriage act isn't enough. Bush will back it, the Democrats will kind of tap dance around it. My feeling is, politically, Bush gains on this one.
COLLINS: All right. And this debate about gay marriage has a specific connection to former Vermont governor Howard Dean on the cover of "Time" and "Newsweek." What is that?
GREENFIELD: Well, Howard Dean, as governor of Vermont, signed the first-ever state law, I think still the only one, that provides civil union rights for gays. It wasn't his idea. The state supreme court of Vermont ordered the government to do something like this.
But beyond that, Howard Dean is the flavor of the month, cover of "Time" and "Newsweek." And I think there is a broader question here. People are saying he's too left to appeal the Democrats. My feeling is because he has a balanced budget, he's pro-guns, he might be able to finesse that.
I think as we look ahead, quickly, there are three major Democratic interest groups he has yet to appeal to -- labor, minorities and elected Democratic officials, and those three groups, I think, have a kind of veto power. If you can't appeal to those groups, you have a real problem getting the nomination. I think that's his major challenge. The fact that he's the first insurgent who will have as much money as anybody else is going to be a fascinating political story, because of that Internet. He's done a hell of a job.
COLLINS: All right. We will certainly watch to see that.
Thanks so much, Jeff. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
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Aired August 4, 2003 - 09:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The news in the Episcopal church is just one gay rights issue making headlines right now. President Bush raised the issue of gay marriage during a news conference last week. Mr. Bush said he committed to the idea of marriage as an institution between a man and a woman, and said his staff is looking for ways to codify that.
Senior analyst Jeff Greenfield is here now with a look at the political implications.
So, Jeff, tell us, where exactly does the president stand on this issue?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Heidi, we can look at Bush's comments at his press conference from a broader perspective. His fundamental approach, he and Karl Rove, has been to comfort the base, the conservative base, in a non-polarizing way. So he carries the conservative flag on root issues like the tax cut, but on spending for education and prescription drugs or in support for steel quotas, his disagrees with the conservative line. On abortion, he signs the partial-birth abortion ban, which most of the country is for. He blocks funding for family planning efforts that include abortion, but he doesn't personally go to the right to life rallies. Also like Reagan, he tends to address them by phone.
So when Bush on this issue says, we're all sinners, don't go for the moat in the other guy's eye if you've got a log your other eye. I don't think he was trying to say gays are sinners. I think he was trying to say live and let live.
But the White House and everybody else knows gay marriage politically is the figurative brick wall. None of the major Democratic wannabes supported it. President Clinton, probably the most pro-gay president ever, signed the Defense of Marriage Act. So even a simple statement of the president that he's looking into ways to codify that, it's a no-lose proposition politically. Democrats did are out on their year-long effort to rally their interest groups. There are some gay groups pushing the Democratic candidates because they're not for gay marriage.
So in my view, Bush gets the full red state, if you will, cultural divide advantage on this issue, and gets none of the notion that he's homophobic, that he's like Rick Santorum said and Santorum got some criticism, that he saw somehow out to get gays.
COLLINS: All right. Well, the CNN poll suggested that the support for civil unions for gays and lesbians has actually dropped sharply since the Supreme Court decision on sodomy laws. So what does that say about the gay marriage debate and how it might be linked to that case?
GREENFIELD: I think it's absolutely linked, because both friends and foes of that decision think of Justice Scalia who said this decision going to make gay marriage a lot more plausible a possibility. I think that pushes a whole lot of buttons. One conservative scholar explained that the country is conflicted. They don't want to persecute gays. Probably most people think they should have the same rights at others, that live and let live notion,but their own fear that marriage in general is an endangered institution, most people draw a very clear line on that issue.
Even Congressman Barney Frank, the first openly gay member of Congress, said, look, if you don't want to call it gay marriage, that's fine with me. Where I think it's really going to heat up is if a state supreme court, Massachusetts will be deciding this issue soon -- if a state Supreme Court says gays can marry, under a constitutional clause, every other state normally has to recognize the marriage laws of whatever state.
Now, if the courts ultimately say, look, states can't deny the gays right to have marriage recognized, because of what we said in that sodomy decision, there's no ground for it. It's going to take a constitutional amendment to change that. The Defense of Marriage act isn't enough. Bush will back it, the Democrats will kind of tap dance around it. My feeling is, politically, Bush gains on this one.
COLLINS: All right. And this debate about gay marriage has a specific connection to former Vermont governor Howard Dean on the cover of "Time" and "Newsweek." What is that?
GREENFIELD: Well, Howard Dean, as governor of Vermont, signed the first-ever state law, I think still the only one, that provides civil union rights for gays. It wasn't his idea. The state supreme court of Vermont ordered the government to do something like this.
But beyond that, Howard Dean is the flavor of the month, cover of "Time" and "Newsweek." And I think there is a broader question here. People are saying he's too left to appeal the Democrats. My feeling is because he has a balanced budget, he's pro-guns, he might be able to finesse that.
I think as we look ahead, quickly, there are three major Democratic interest groups he has yet to appeal to -- labor, minorities and elected Democratic officials, and those three groups, I think, have a kind of veto power. If you can't appeal to those groups, you have a real problem getting the nomination. I think that's his major challenge. The fact that he's the first insurgent who will have as much money as anybody else is going to be a fascinating political story, because of that Internet. He's done a hell of a job.
COLLINS: All right. We will certainly watch to see that.
Thanks so much, Jeff. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
t
