Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Moving Toward Peace?
Aired August 05, 2003 - 09:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. troops remain anchored off the coast of Liberia, waiting to hear whether they'll go ashore to assist African peacekeepers. Crowds of cheering Liberians greeted the first Nigerian peacekeepers when they arrived in the war-ravaged country yesterday. You see the scene there's.
For the latest now, let's go to CNN's Jeff Koinange. He is standing by live in Monrovia, where things appeared to have settled down a little bit at least -- Jeff.
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Leon.
What a difference 24 hours makes. I'm standing the Gabriel- Tucker Bridge, one of the key entrances into the city of Monrovia. And I can tell you, barely 48 hours ago behind me, intensive fighting. So intense, Leon, let me show you a bit of the hardware we've just picked from this bridge right here. Look at this shell right here, RPG shell. I've got 50 caliber right here. I've got PKM, which is similar to AK-47. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) strewn all over the bridge behind me. It's almost like a carpet.
Now interesting incident in Nasubasa (ph) a couple hours ago, the government officials who controlled this part of the bridge, one of them walked across with a white flag, and on the other side, Lurd (ph) rebel walked across with white flag, and they met kind of half way, they shook hands, and each went their separate way. So events developing rapidly on the ground.
Looks like people are tired of the fighting, Leon. People want to get on with their lives. Civilians want to be able to cross the bridge and come back and forth. A lot is happening, even as a lot of hardware continues to land, courtesy of the West African peacekeepers. They're consolidating their positions, their wanting to meet with the rebel leadership.
A lot's happening, Leon, and it looks like peace is painfully but slowly coming to Monrovia -- Leon.
HARRIS: I know the civilians there have got to be awfully glad to hear that.
Jeff, I know you were talking there about seeing that bridge there pretty much carpeted with shell casings and RPG shrapnel. But other video we've seen has been showing in recent hours has been showing literally streets being littered by bodies of civilians.
Tell us that state right now in Monrovia, and any points elsewhere where you've been able to see? can you give us an idea of what's happening with that?
KOINANGE: Absolutely. In fact, about 50 yards from where I am on my left is a river that flows around the city. Now there are bodies in that river right now. We actually saw them floating on top. All around where we are right now, remember, this was a scene of heavy, heavy fighting just 48 hours ago. Nobody could have come across here. Government forces, and they're still around here. She's wearing flip-flops and carrying an AK-47, firing endlessly, continuously. But now, the same kids literally standing next to me, saying, we want to go back to school, we want to get our lives back, we are tired of all this. It's going to take a while, Leon. And ECOMIL is going to have their work cut out for them cleaning up the town, cleaning up the free port, in the second port city of Buchanan (ph), which as you know, is being held by two different rebel forces, and then creating a corridor for much-needed food aid, much needed humanitarian relief for tens of thousands of suffering Liberians -- Leon.
HARRIS: And that is a task and a set of tasks, I should say, that is daunting from any perspective.
Jeff Koinange, reporting live for us from Monrovia.
Thank you, Jeff. Be careful see you soon.
Let's talk about the dangers facing these foreign troops heading into Liberia, and perhaps any U.S. troops that may, if they do, end up touching shore there. These will be the same challenges and dangers they'll be facing as well. Susan Rice is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, and she was also assistant secretary of state for African affairs in the Clinton administration. She joins us this morning from Aspen, Colorado.
Good morning, and thank you for taking the time to talk with us.
First off, what are your thoughts this morning now, knowing that the Nigerian peacekeepers are there on the ground, U.S. troops off the shore right now. In your mind, do you see anything substantive happening any time soon before Charles Taylor makes his next move there? will life get substantially better for people there in the next few hours?
SUSAN RICE, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Well, I think we heard good news this morning out of Monrovia, the fact that the Nigerians have begun to deploy is very good, and gives the people of Liberia some degree of hope. But they're still in very small numbers so far. And those Nigerian forces have to get up to a sufficient strength that they can begin to leave the airport and fan out and begin to secure the ports, so that badly needed food and other humanitarian assistance can be distributed. That's their immediate task, plus the political negotiations aimed at consolidating the cease-fire.
HARRIS: Well, how many troops do you think have to be on the ground for all that to happen?
RICE: Well, at least a full battalion of Nigerians, I think, is necessary to start that process. They now just control the airport so that troops can flow in. Ideally, an additional battalion or two, but I think they can start the process when they have at least a battalion on the ground, provided that Charles Taylor doesn't pull any further tricks -- and that's always a wild card -- and, in fact, fulfills his commitment to leave the country by around the 11th of August.
HARRIS: Well, what about that proviso? You have had plenty of experience with talking about at least Charles Taylor and his maneuvers in the past. Do you have any reason to believe that this man actually will back up his word with some actions and actually leave?
RICE: Well, he's about as slippery a character as you can find anywhere. But if he has any brains, he will leave, because leaving, going to Nigeria, taking up the invitation for exile there, is his best opportunity to live his life in peace and potentially allude the jurisdiction of the tribunal war crimes tribunal, which is after him.
If he stays and breaks his word, he may well be captured by the West African forces and rendered to the war crimes tribunal, or die fighting.
A third scenario is that he could try to use this period to slip into the bush and perhaps reconstitute his army and start his again the combat.
But I hope that the peacekeepers and the United Nations and indeed the United States will put maximum pressure on Taylor to fulfill his commitment and go to Nigeria. That would be the best-case scenario for Liberia, and, in fact, for him, if he's got any sense.
HARRIS: All right, so if he does leave, and that opens the door for at least more discussions and more movement by U.S. troops to actually get there on the ground, what happens next? What do you think should be happening there? And how would you be advising President Bush if you were still in the cabinet to talk about this?
RICE: Well, I think the United States has a very important role to play. It's not sufficient for the West Africans to go in by themselves. First of all, they're only there in small numbers, even when they reach their full compliment of 3,000. They're going to need logistical support. They're going to command control support and communications support. They're going to need airlift support. And the United States can and should provide that support very quickly, and we can do it at low cost, relatively low risk, and of a limited duration.
I think we have made a mistake by taking so long to be clear about what, in fact, we're prepared to do to help. There has been a window that has been lost, and more suffering has occurred. I think we need to step in quickly, provide meaningful support, rather than stay on the sidelines and say, well, when everything is hunky-dory calm, and Taylor's gone and the cease-fire is in place, then we'll consider coming in. That's like saying, you know, we're the fire brigade, we'll come to a burning house, but we're not going to come in until the fire's put out. That doesn't make eight of sense. HARRIS: Very interesting. It will be some time before these fires in Liberia do get put out. We'll have to watch and see how things plays out.
Susan Rice of the Brookings Institution, thank you very much. We sure do appreciate your insight this morning.
RICE: Thank you, Leon.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 5, 2003 - 09:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. troops remain anchored off the coast of Liberia, waiting to hear whether they'll go ashore to assist African peacekeepers. Crowds of cheering Liberians greeted the first Nigerian peacekeepers when they arrived in the war-ravaged country yesterday. You see the scene there's.
For the latest now, let's go to CNN's Jeff Koinange. He is standing by live in Monrovia, where things appeared to have settled down a little bit at least -- Jeff.
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Leon.
What a difference 24 hours makes. I'm standing the Gabriel- Tucker Bridge, one of the key entrances into the city of Monrovia. And I can tell you, barely 48 hours ago behind me, intensive fighting. So intense, Leon, let me show you a bit of the hardware we've just picked from this bridge right here. Look at this shell right here, RPG shell. I've got 50 caliber right here. I've got PKM, which is similar to AK-47. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) strewn all over the bridge behind me. It's almost like a carpet.
Now interesting incident in Nasubasa (ph) a couple hours ago, the government officials who controlled this part of the bridge, one of them walked across with a white flag, and on the other side, Lurd (ph) rebel walked across with white flag, and they met kind of half way, they shook hands, and each went their separate way. So events developing rapidly on the ground.
Looks like people are tired of the fighting, Leon. People want to get on with their lives. Civilians want to be able to cross the bridge and come back and forth. A lot is happening, even as a lot of hardware continues to land, courtesy of the West African peacekeepers. They're consolidating their positions, their wanting to meet with the rebel leadership.
A lot's happening, Leon, and it looks like peace is painfully but slowly coming to Monrovia -- Leon.
HARRIS: I know the civilians there have got to be awfully glad to hear that.
Jeff, I know you were talking there about seeing that bridge there pretty much carpeted with shell casings and RPG shrapnel. But other video we've seen has been showing in recent hours has been showing literally streets being littered by bodies of civilians.
Tell us that state right now in Monrovia, and any points elsewhere where you've been able to see? can you give us an idea of what's happening with that?
KOINANGE: Absolutely. In fact, about 50 yards from where I am on my left is a river that flows around the city. Now there are bodies in that river right now. We actually saw them floating on top. All around where we are right now, remember, this was a scene of heavy, heavy fighting just 48 hours ago. Nobody could have come across here. Government forces, and they're still around here. She's wearing flip-flops and carrying an AK-47, firing endlessly, continuously. But now, the same kids literally standing next to me, saying, we want to go back to school, we want to get our lives back, we are tired of all this. It's going to take a while, Leon. And ECOMIL is going to have their work cut out for them cleaning up the town, cleaning up the free port, in the second port city of Buchanan (ph), which as you know, is being held by two different rebel forces, and then creating a corridor for much-needed food aid, much needed humanitarian relief for tens of thousands of suffering Liberians -- Leon.
HARRIS: And that is a task and a set of tasks, I should say, that is daunting from any perspective.
Jeff Koinange, reporting live for us from Monrovia.
Thank you, Jeff. Be careful see you soon.
Let's talk about the dangers facing these foreign troops heading into Liberia, and perhaps any U.S. troops that may, if they do, end up touching shore there. These will be the same challenges and dangers they'll be facing as well. Susan Rice is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, and she was also assistant secretary of state for African affairs in the Clinton administration. She joins us this morning from Aspen, Colorado.
Good morning, and thank you for taking the time to talk with us.
First off, what are your thoughts this morning now, knowing that the Nigerian peacekeepers are there on the ground, U.S. troops off the shore right now. In your mind, do you see anything substantive happening any time soon before Charles Taylor makes his next move there? will life get substantially better for people there in the next few hours?
SUSAN RICE, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Well, I think we heard good news this morning out of Monrovia, the fact that the Nigerians have begun to deploy is very good, and gives the people of Liberia some degree of hope. But they're still in very small numbers so far. And those Nigerian forces have to get up to a sufficient strength that they can begin to leave the airport and fan out and begin to secure the ports, so that badly needed food and other humanitarian assistance can be distributed. That's their immediate task, plus the political negotiations aimed at consolidating the cease-fire.
HARRIS: Well, how many troops do you think have to be on the ground for all that to happen?
RICE: Well, at least a full battalion of Nigerians, I think, is necessary to start that process. They now just control the airport so that troops can flow in. Ideally, an additional battalion or two, but I think they can start the process when they have at least a battalion on the ground, provided that Charles Taylor doesn't pull any further tricks -- and that's always a wild card -- and, in fact, fulfills his commitment to leave the country by around the 11th of August.
HARRIS: Well, what about that proviso? You have had plenty of experience with talking about at least Charles Taylor and his maneuvers in the past. Do you have any reason to believe that this man actually will back up his word with some actions and actually leave?
RICE: Well, he's about as slippery a character as you can find anywhere. But if he has any brains, he will leave, because leaving, going to Nigeria, taking up the invitation for exile there, is his best opportunity to live his life in peace and potentially allude the jurisdiction of the tribunal war crimes tribunal, which is after him.
If he stays and breaks his word, he may well be captured by the West African forces and rendered to the war crimes tribunal, or die fighting.
A third scenario is that he could try to use this period to slip into the bush and perhaps reconstitute his army and start his again the combat.
But I hope that the peacekeepers and the United Nations and indeed the United States will put maximum pressure on Taylor to fulfill his commitment and go to Nigeria. That would be the best-case scenario for Liberia, and, in fact, for him, if he's got any sense.
HARRIS: All right, so if he does leave, and that opens the door for at least more discussions and more movement by U.S. troops to actually get there on the ground, what happens next? What do you think should be happening there? And how would you be advising President Bush if you were still in the cabinet to talk about this?
RICE: Well, I think the United States has a very important role to play. It's not sufficient for the West Africans to go in by themselves. First of all, they're only there in small numbers, even when they reach their full compliment of 3,000. They're going to need logistical support. They're going to command control support and communications support. They're going to need airlift support. And the United States can and should provide that support very quickly, and we can do it at low cost, relatively low risk, and of a limited duration.
I think we have made a mistake by taking so long to be clear about what, in fact, we're prepared to do to help. There has been a window that has been lost, and more suffering has occurred. I think we need to step in quickly, provide meaningful support, rather than stay on the sidelines and say, well, when everything is hunky-dory calm, and Taylor's gone and the cease-fire is in place, then we'll consider coming in. That's like saying, you know, we're the fire brigade, we'll come to a burning house, but we're not going to come in until the fire's put out. That doesn't make eight of sense. HARRIS: Very interesting. It will be some time before these fires in Liberia do get put out. We'll have to watch and see how things plays out.
Susan Rice of the Brookings Institution, thank you very much. We sure do appreciate your insight this morning.
RICE: Thank you, Leon.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
