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Catholic Church Cover-Up?

Aired August 08, 2003 - 05:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Were Catholic Church officials who covered up sex abuse cases actually following orders from the Vatican? As disturbing as it may be, there's some evidence of that in a secret church document.
John Allen, a Vatican correspondent for the "National Catholic Reporter," joins us live by phone from Rome.

Good morning.

JOHN ALLEN, "NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER": Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So what's happening with this document? What does it say?

ALLEN: Well, the document was put out in 1962 under a kind of super secret instruction that the thing was to be preserved in the secret archives of each diocese. And it sets out a set of procedures for what to do if a priest is accused of the crime of solicitation in the confessional, that is, using a confessional to proposition someone sexually.

It also, there's provisions at the end that expand the procedures in this document to cover other cases of sexual abuse, including sexual abuse of minors.

I think what has been perhaps misunderstood in some of the early comment on this document is that when a priest is accused of a crime, it can trigger any one of three processes. One is an internal church investigation leading to the guy being defrocked, that is, kicked out of the priesthood. The second is a criminal investigation leading to him going to jail. Third is a civil lawsuit leading to the church paying damages.

This document concerned only that first process, that is, the church's internal discipline. So it was silent on the question of whether or not bishops or anybody else in the church should be reporting these crimes to the police.

COSTELLO: But doesn't the document also mention victims and that allegations of sexual abuse had to remain secret, even from the victim's standpoint?

ALLEN: No. What it says is that the victim's contributions to a Canon Law investigation and trial against an accused priest have to be secret. It does not impose any secrecy on them in terms of what they choose to tell or not tell the police or civil attorneys. COSTELLO: So why is this document so earth shattering then?

ALLEN: Oh, I don't think it is a particularly earth shattering document. But I think what this illustrates is that the revelations about sexual abuse by priests in the United States and elsewhere and the failures of bishops to -- some bishops -- to intervene when they should have known better, and instead, you know, moving these guys around from parish to parish rather than stepping in and putting a stop to this, that has created a climate in which people in the United States are prepared to believe the worst about the church.

And so when news about a document that it imposes secrecy comes along, people immediately jump to the conclusion, aha, there was a conspiracy, there was a cover-up.

And while this document certainly does not illustrate any kind of criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice, I do think it illustrates the deep public relations hole the church has dug for itself.

COSTELLO: So is the church still following that -- the orders or the parameters laid forth in that document or is there going to be a change?

ALLEN: No, this document was superseded in 1983 when the church adopted a new code of Canon Law. The law in that code was superseded in 2001 when the people adopted some new ones and that was, if you like, superseded again when the American bishops adopted their own norms in Washington last November.

So the system that the Catholic Church in the United States is operating under now are the charter on the Central Norms for the Protection of Young People that the U.S. bishops adopted in November 2002.

COSTELLO: I understand all that. I think the reason why people may be so upset about this document is that many Catholics were not satisfied with the pope's reaction to the sex abuse scandal here in America.

ALLEN: Oh, no question. I think, and that's my point. I think that what this story illustrates is the fact that the church has done itself enormous harm in the way it allowed this scandal to fester in the first place, its failure to deal with it, and that failure runs from the very top all the way down to the bottom. And I think that has created a sense that there has been too much secrecy, too much denial, and that the church needs to get on board and deal with this crisis forcefully.

Now, the fact that this document, in and of itself, doesn't prove that there was a criminal conspiracy doesn't deal with that larger problem, which is the challenges still facing the church.

COSTELLO: Understood.

John Allen, thanks so much.

John Allen, a Vatican correspondent for the "National Catholic Reporter," joining us live by phone from Rome this morning.

For more on the Catholic Church document, log onto our Website. The address, cnn.com, AOL keyword: CNN.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 8, 2003 - 05:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Were Catholic Church officials who covered up sex abuse cases actually following orders from the Vatican? As disturbing as it may be, there's some evidence of that in a secret church document.
John Allen, a Vatican correspondent for the "National Catholic Reporter," joins us live by phone from Rome.

Good morning.

JOHN ALLEN, "NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER": Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So what's happening with this document? What does it say?

ALLEN: Well, the document was put out in 1962 under a kind of super secret instruction that the thing was to be preserved in the secret archives of each diocese. And it sets out a set of procedures for what to do if a priest is accused of the crime of solicitation in the confessional, that is, using a confessional to proposition someone sexually.

It also, there's provisions at the end that expand the procedures in this document to cover other cases of sexual abuse, including sexual abuse of minors.

I think what has been perhaps misunderstood in some of the early comment on this document is that when a priest is accused of a crime, it can trigger any one of three processes. One is an internal church investigation leading to the guy being defrocked, that is, kicked out of the priesthood. The second is a criminal investigation leading to him going to jail. Third is a civil lawsuit leading to the church paying damages.

This document concerned only that first process, that is, the church's internal discipline. So it was silent on the question of whether or not bishops or anybody else in the church should be reporting these crimes to the police.

COSTELLO: But doesn't the document also mention victims and that allegations of sexual abuse had to remain secret, even from the victim's standpoint?

ALLEN: No. What it says is that the victim's contributions to a Canon Law investigation and trial against an accused priest have to be secret. It does not impose any secrecy on them in terms of what they choose to tell or not tell the police or civil attorneys. COSTELLO: So why is this document so earth shattering then?

ALLEN: Oh, I don't think it is a particularly earth shattering document. But I think what this illustrates is that the revelations about sexual abuse by priests in the United States and elsewhere and the failures of bishops to -- some bishops -- to intervene when they should have known better, and instead, you know, moving these guys around from parish to parish rather than stepping in and putting a stop to this, that has created a climate in which people in the United States are prepared to believe the worst about the church.

And so when news about a document that it imposes secrecy comes along, people immediately jump to the conclusion, aha, there was a conspiracy, there was a cover-up.

And while this document certainly does not illustrate any kind of criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice, I do think it illustrates the deep public relations hole the church has dug for itself.

COSTELLO: So is the church still following that -- the orders or the parameters laid forth in that document or is there going to be a change?

ALLEN: No, this document was superseded in 1983 when the church adopted a new code of Canon Law. The law in that code was superseded in 2001 when the people adopted some new ones and that was, if you like, superseded again when the American bishops adopted their own norms in Washington last November.

So the system that the Catholic Church in the United States is operating under now are the charter on the Central Norms for the Protection of Young People that the U.S. bishops adopted in November 2002.

COSTELLO: I understand all that. I think the reason why people may be so upset about this document is that many Catholics were not satisfied with the pope's reaction to the sex abuse scandal here in America.

ALLEN: Oh, no question. I think, and that's my point. I think that what this story illustrates is the fact that the church has done itself enormous harm in the way it allowed this scandal to fester in the first place, its failure to deal with it, and that failure runs from the very top all the way down to the bottom. And I think that has created a sense that there has been too much secrecy, too much denial, and that the church needs to get on board and deal with this crisis forcefully.

Now, the fact that this document, in and of itself, doesn't prove that there was a criminal conspiracy doesn't deal with that larger problem, which is the challenges still facing the church.

COSTELLO: Understood.

John Allen, thanks so much.

John Allen, a Vatican correspondent for the "National Catholic Reporter," joining us live by phone from Rome this morning.

For more on the Catholic Church document, log onto our Website. The address, cnn.com, AOL keyword: CNN.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com