Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Larry King Live

Prince Charles, Camilla Parker-Bowles Move in Together

Aired August 13, 2003 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight: Prince Charles and Camilla Parker- Bowles have finally officially moved in together. Could a royal wedding be around the corner? Meanwhile, Prince William raised a public outcry in England over the weekend when he speared a wild antelope on an African holiday. And what about those stories that Prince Harry is plowing through legions of long-stemmed blondes, inviting them to his dad's basement, known as "Club H"?
Tonight, all the hottest royals news and gossip with our panel of experts. Robert Lacey, author of the best-seller "Monarch"; Kitty Kelley, another best-selling royals biographer; Dickie Arbiter, the former press secretary to the queen and to the Prince and Princess of Wales; and Harold Brooks-Baker, director of Burke's Peerage. They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Before we start -- normally, all of our guests are either in London or New York. Dickie Arbiter is here with us in Los Angeles. What brings you to the new country?

DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO THE QUEEN: I became a grandfather.

KING: Oh, congratulations.

ARBITER: Yes, on the 1st of August, the first Anglo-American in the Fuhrman. Son-in-law's a Texan, Brian Brown (ph), just finished in "The Young and the Restless," and daughter over here. They've been married for about 20 months, and they produced a bonny baby, a bonny little boy named Dylan (ph) .

KING: Congratulations, Dickie. All right, Robert, "Vanity Fair," the newest issue has a whole magazine devoted to a photo portfolio of the new generations of royals, also an article on the future king. What do you make of all of this? Why do they not go away?

ROBERT LACEY, AUTHOR, "MONARCH": Well, I must say, I was rather daunted when that "Vanity Fair" plopped through the doormat. It's enormous. It's like a telephone directory. I think they must have destroyed a few forests for it.

Actually, the most interesting thing I found in the whole magazine was the article by its editor, Graydon Carter, at the beginning, which had nothing to do with royals. Well, it was all about your American royals and the Bush family and how they seem to get you into deficits and foreign wars. And then you look through the magazine, and you discover all these Europeans who've been put out of a job through spending too much of their country's money in foreign wars. So I think perhaps it's got a hidden agenda, but maybe Kitty knows about that. She's the expert on your royals.

KING: Yes, Kitty. Why would "Vanity Fair" do a whole issue on this?

KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR, "THE ROYALS": Well, it sounds like from Robert that he's saying that monarchs are dated. They're out of style. They're not part of the new world. Maybe "Vanity Fair" is trying to show us kind of the jeweled throwbacks to an era that isn't all that relevant anymore, really.

KING: And what do you think, Dickie?

ARBITER: Well, I think royals are relevant, and I think people are interested in them, otherwise magazines like "Vanity Fair" wouldn't be publishing page after page...

KING: They may be interested in them, but...

ARBITER: ... after page.

KING: ... what is their relevance?

ARBITER: I think their relevance -- I mean, if you look at the head of state, the queen, Queen Elizabeth II, the monarchs provide stability and continuity. They're a buffer between, you know, what the government does and what the government shouldn't be doing, as well. And nothing really gets past the monarch. And the monarch also has contact with presidents and prime ministers throughout the world many prime ministers don't. I mean, for example, the queen, head of the commonwealth, goes out -- and this year, it'll be in Nigeria, to the heads of government conference, and she will meet presidents and prime ministers of all the commonwealth countries.

KING: But without any clout, though. I mean...

ARBITER: Not with a lot of clout, but with a vast (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of information this she could then pass on to our own prime minister, who wouldn't necessarily meet these people.

KING: Harold, what do you make of all this attention?

HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, DIRECTOR, BURKE'S PEERAGE: Well, I think that it's rather understandable because Burke's Peerage, for example, proved a few years ago that the Bush family was related to the queen. It's all one big, happy family. Of the nine monarchs still holding thrones on the continent, the relationship between the queen and seven of these is unbelievably close, and several are advisers, in one way or another, to various members of the British royal family. It's all, in a way, one big, happy family. And when you see the way in which the ex-president of the United States goes in for shooting, it's not unlike a certain young member of the British family who goes in for shooting. KING: We will get to that and a lot of other things, but let's start first with Camilla and Charles moving in together. They now reside at Clarence House, a 19th century London mansion where the queen mother last lived. We'll start with you, Robert. What is -- what do you make of this? And is it leading to marriage?

LACEY: I think it is leading to marriage, yes. I went 'round Clarence House last week. What is remarkable is the way in which Prince Charles has had it decorated almost exactly in the style of his grandmother. It's very much a shrine to the queen mother, and it's also a great tribute to her popularity. There are 46,000 tickets available to go 'round Clarence House this summer, and they've all gone already. Of course, what we won't see, what nobody sees when they go 'round, are the sleeping arrangements upstairs. But apparently -- and the big thing they will not tell us is who's got the queen mum's bedroom. But apparently, Camilla has a suite up there. Charles has a suite up there. And the boys, William and Harry, each have their own rooms and a great big rumpus room, which they can trash as much as they like.

KING: I know these are modern times, Kitty, but does not the Church of England have any complaints about unmarried people living together?

KELLEY: Well, I'm sure they will, Larry. And I think you're quite right. These are morally relaxed times, but not so for the future king of England, and I think he's going to have to get on with it now. He's moved into Clarence House. You cannot be having a future king of England, especially when he still represents the Church of England, living with a woman who is not his wife. I mean, it doesn't give the very best example in the entire world.

KING: So you think he has to get married.

KELLEY: Oh, I think he absolutely has to, and the sooner the better. And I think he has to do it while the queen is still alive.

KING: Dickie?

ARBITER: I don't think they have to get married. And I'm at odds with Robert. I don't think they will get married. There isn't a need for them to get married. You know, there are a lot of people saying the monarchy's got to modernize. Now, on the one hand, we have Kitty saying, Well, they should get married. What do they want when they -- mean by modernizing? Why can't they just live together? It doesn't matter to...

KING: But wouldn't it be a...

KELLEY: Well, do you want your son-in-law and your daughter to be living together?

ARBITER: Well, they are living together, but they just happen to be married.

KELLEY: Right. ARBITER: But there is nothing in the world today that says that couples have now got to be married in order to live together and...

KELLEY: Well, Dickie, then why do they live together? I mean, if it were going to be that kind of relationship, then why couldn't Camilla have her house and Charles have his house and they could visit each other?

ARBITER: Well, actually, Camilla does still retain her house, and the Prince of Wales has his house at Highgrove. Clarence House will not be a permanent home, in that they will be there every day of the week, every week of the year.

KING: But they are, Harold, are they not, very public now. They go out together a lot. What does this say to you, Harold?

BROOKS-BAKER: Well, it says to me that Camilla Parker-Bowles is part of his life. In every way, except as far as the church and state are concerned, and they are married. It is not like the relationship that his ancestor had with -- Edward VII had with her grandmother, Mrs. Kebble (ph). And Mrs. Kebble was a close friend and practically a member of the royal family, but she was just one of many mistresses. Camilla Parker-Bowles is not one of many mistresses. She is the special, particular and much praised, closest friend to the Prince of Wales. There is no other friend.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

BROOKS-BAKER: In a way, I think that there is no royal family in the world that leads such a sensible, circumspect existence. The ways of the past have been put aside.

KING: We'll take a break and come back with more. We'll be including your phone calls as we look at the always never dull royals right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: All right, Robert Lacey, what's the latest on Prince William? He is now 21, is he not?

LACEY: Yes, he is, and he's in Africa at the moment. As you said at the head of the program, there's some controversy over here about stories that he killed a little deer while he was in Africa on a hunting expedition. He likes killing deer. He's been doing from quite an early age. He does it the Scottish way, which is called stalking. And it's something his grandmother, the queen, loved to do while she was fit and able. It involves crawling through the heather for hours with a gun and a gilly (ph), a Highlands servant beside you, downwind of the stag, and you get close enough and you shoot it. Apparently, he did the same in Africa, only with the Bushmen of the area. We've heard, when he was 21, that he's studying Swahili. And apparently, one reason for his trip to Africa is to brush up his Swahili. He was doing this. They invited him to go hunting. He killed a deer, and the animal lovers here in Britain are outraged.

KING: Dickie, why are you shake your head?

ARBITER: I don't believe it. You know, it...

KING: You don't believe he killed a deer?

ARBITER: I don't believe he killed a deer at all because, first of all, a dik-dik is very tiny. You can equate it with the size, say, of a whippet, a dog. It has a running speed of about 25 miles an hour. It is the sort of radar for kudu and zebra that roam the plains of the Masai Mara.

KING: So where did the story come from?

ARBITER: Oh, I think it was just a story that was hatched up. It hasn't been denied by St. James's Palace, but if you look at the British media post-Sunday, "The Mail" on Sunday story appearing, there has been no follow-up. So you've got to treat this one with a fair amount of skepticism.

KING: Kitty, his mother wanted him very much to be a little media-savvy, did she not?

KELLEY: She did, indeed, and she taught him to be very, very wary of paparazzi. And she used to say that she had hoped that he would conduct himself much the same way that John F. Kennedy, Jr., conducted himself. Diana admired Jacqueline Kennedy's son very, very much, and that's what she wished for William. It's probably been almost a harder life for William, though, because he has constant, constant media attention.

Dickie, I know I shouldn't take issue with this, but any time it comes to the palace denying or confirming something, you'll forgive me if I'm just a little bit skeptical.

(LAUGHTER)

ARBITER: Yes, I do forgive you for being skeptical. The palace don't deny everything. You know, if you start denying everything, if the poor guy had a sneezing fit, they'd say that he'd got some terrible disease. And you can't go admitting and denying everything. But I think if you look at the British media, which is quite vociferous in the way that it pursues stories, but it hasn't pursued this beyond what was reported on Sunday. And we've got some pretty hard tabloids, and if there was any substance to this story, it would still be running today, four days later.

KING: Any truth, Harold, to the rumors of his relationship with Lauren Bush, the president's model niece?

BROOKS-BAKER: I don't think that there is anything more than a distant admiration. But it's rather early in his life to start choosing somebody for him, not only because people marry very late today, but members of the royal families certainly don't rush into things. And he may not marry somebody who is royal, even though, in a certain way, the Bush family is partially royal. It is unlikely that you will hear anything definite for many, many years to come. But like all young men, he is going to have an eye for an attractive girl, and she is very attractive.

KING: Robert Lacey, is he still very, very popular, William?

LACEY: Oh, yes, he is. And I'd like to say about that romantic interest question you raised there -- there is this romantic dimension, and maybe Dickie's going to deny this, as well...

(CROSSTALK)

LACEY: ... in his trip to Africa.

ARBITER: He's got a whole string of girlfriends.

LACEY: Well, yes. Well, one of them, we know, is called Jessica Craig, known as "Jeca (ph)" for short. And she's definitely out there and he's definitely, I think, so far as we know, visiting her family, the Craigs, who have an enormous wildlife estate. She came over for his 21st birthday party, which famously had an "Out of Africa" theme. And so that seems to me, if we're betting people, the most likely squeeze that he's got at the moment. But as Dickie correctly says, he's got a lot of girlfriends. And good luck to him.

ARBITER: Yes, there were probably a lot of them at that party at Windsor Castle.

KELLEY: Larry, on the Lauren Bush thing -- when I interviewed her mother, Sharon Bush, she told me that Lauren had never met Prince William, that all there was was an e-mail that she sent to him, and they've never even been formally introduced.

KING: All right, let me get a break and come back, and we'll talk about Harry and then include your phone calls, also have some thoughts about Mr. Hewitt trying to sell the love letters of Diana, as well.

You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. We're discussing the royals, and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back. Let's start with Kitty this go-round. About Harry, "Vanity Fair" says he's been "plowing through legions of long- stemmed blondes, inviting them back to Club H, Harry's basement den at his dad's estate in Highgrove." What do you make of this?

(LAUGHTER)

KELLEY: Young boy on the move! And he has a wonderful pick-up line, I understand. He says, How would you like to come back to my palace and play?

(LAUGHTER)

KING: Harry's doing all right, then.

KELLEY: Harry's doing OK. He does seem to be very, very attracted to tall, long-stemmed blondes, not unlike his pretty mama.

KING: Dickie, what do you make of Harry's escapades?

ARBITER: I think they're perfectly healthy and perfectly...

KING: And normal.

ARBITER: And absolutely normal. And I think when I was Harry's age, I was chasing long-legged blondes. There weren't a lot of them around. But no, I think that's perfectly normal and good for him because, you know, life is too short to sort of be dowdy and boring.

KING: Harold, how's Harry doing?

BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, I think he's doing very well, and he is rather similar to many of his relations on the continent. Yes, he's interested in sports. And yes, he likes attractive girls. There's nothing very new or earthshaking about that. But he certainly is shaping up extremely well, and you can see that he's a healthy, happy young man. And the papers have been reasonably kind to him recently. But in a way, he's much more like his cousins in Denmark and Holland and perhaps even in Norway, and I think that the fact is that all these young members see their cousins on the continent constantly. One's off the throne and one's on the throne. And to understand them, it's necessary to really look at something like "Vanity Fair" which gives you the names of several hundred of their closest relations.

KING: Robert Lacey, what would you add about Harry?

LACEY: Well, I saw him playing polo last week -- me and 20,000 other people, let me add -- at the Windsor Great (ph) Park, where he played wonderfully. But I think the nicest thing for everybody there to see was he was with a lot of young friends of his own age. He played with intense competition, and it was a refreshing, wholesome sight.

I think Harry's problem is that we all willy-nilly typecast him as the naughty younger brother. And of course, his episode with drugs and drink a year or so didn't help that. I would imagine that his brother William is enjoying just the company of just as many long- stemmed blondes. And of course, though it's called Club H, I think the "H" refers to Highgrove and not to Harry. And I think William takes the blondes there, as well, and maybe they take them all together.

KING: Is he a good polo player, Robert?

LACEY: Excellent polo player. His father, Prince Charles, was the best polo player of his generation. He got up to a handicap of 4 out of 10, which is very, very good for an amateur player. And there's a lot of talk that Harry will do just as well as his father and is already outstripping his brother. And one of the nice things you see when you see them all play polo together is the competition and the way in which particularly the two brothers try and ride each other off.

KING: Dickie, what do you make now of Mr. Hewitt still trying to sell the love letters, asking apparently $16 million?

ARBITER: Well, he hasn't learned, has he. You know, I don't know whether you saw the show here in America.

KING: We played parts of it.

ARBITER: You played parts of it. And he came across -- I mean, he was castigated by the British press as a buffoon and the way he talked about his conquests, and what have you. He just hasn't learned. And quite frankly, he's got to do something. He's desperate for money. Basically, he's unemployable, so he's trying to tout these letters. But as we said a month ago, when we talked about this, the letters belong to him but the words don't. They are copyright.

KING: The writer of the letter owns the letter.

ARBITER: Exactly.

KING: But the writer of the letter is gone.

ARBITER: And they belong to the Diana estate. So he still doesn't own them. He owns the bits of paper. And anybody that might think that they can do something with them can't because they'd be faced with great litigation. So if they buy the letters, they're buying something they can't do anything with. They're just buying a piece of history.

KING: Kitty, what do you make of Hewitt?

KELLEY: Oh! Oh! I'm sorry, Larry. I just -- it's hard to be diplomatic. I think James Hewitt is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. The worst.

KING: Try to come forward on it, will you? Don't hanky-panky around.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: Do you have an opinion or not?

KELLEY: I'm sorry. I am really sorry!

ARBITER: You've never minced your words before, so why are you doing it now?

KING: Why -- why...

KELLEY: Exactly!

KING: Harold, what's the thoughts in Great Britain about Mr. Hewitt?

BROOKS-BAKER: I think that the English public has lost all interest in his life and what happens to him, and they would like to preserve the memory of the late Princess of Wales as much as possible. She was, after all, the most loved woman the world has ever known. And she has been gone now for 10 years. I think it's time...

KING: Six years.

BROOKS-BAKER: ... to realize...

KELLEY: Six years.

BROOKS-BAKER: ... that enough is enough.

KING: Yes. Six years gone.

BROOKS-BAKER: Six years. You're right. Mr. Lacey...

BROOKS-BAKER: And I think that...

KING: I'm sorry, go ahead.

LACEY: Well, I'd like to jump in. I'd like to jump in and say a few words in defense of James Hewitt.

KELLEY: Oh, Robert!

ARBITER: How can you?

KELLEY: I want to hear this!

LACEY: He did give the Princess of Wales -- well, listen to me, Kitty. He gave for a number of years great happiness and consolation to Diana in a very unhappy marriage. And it's all very well for us to jump up and down and make -- you know, complain about him exploiting her memory. We're all, in a way, exploiting her memory, talking about her after her death. And a lot of other people around Diana sold whatever they could. And the sainted butler, Paul Burrell, I think, is just as guilty of exploiting her memory. And yes, he's playing up to a certain stereotype, but I don't think he's as bad as all that.

ARBITER: Robert, I can't believe you're saying that. You've changed your tune in the space of four weeks because you castigated...

LACEY: Well, this is partly...

ARBITER: ... the man straight after his program.

LACEY: ... so I can disagree with you, Dickie.

(LAUGHTER)

KELLEY: Go for him, Dickie. Really. There's no shame.

ARBITER: We talked about this after that television program and -- I mean, what you didn't say spoke volumes.

KING: Aha! LACEY: Well, I -- I agree with the basic point of the commercialism, but you know, nothing is black and white in this world. And let us remember he had a role in her life. You could say he's a living illustration what terrible taste she had in men, as I think I said last time, but...

(CROSSTALK)

LACEY: I don't think -- well, absolutely. But as you say, he's unemployable. And the fact that he's totally identified in everybody's minds with Diana is -- was once a blessing for him. It's now the curse he's got to live with for the rest of his life.

KING: I got to take a break. And when we come back, we'll be going to your phone calls. As we go to break, here's a clip from "Confessions of a Cad," that special that Dickie mentioned about Mr. Hewitt. We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So do you think Prince Charles knew about the relationship you were having with his wife?

JAMES HEWITT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How?

HEWITT: Well, I think he would have been told by the security forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Let us reintroduce our panel discussion the royals, the subject of a major pictorial in the new "Vanity Fair."

In London, Robert Lacey, he is best selling author and veteran royal watcher. His book "Monarch: the life and reign of Elizabeth II," is out now in paperback.

In Washington is Kitty Kelley, the "New York Times" best selling biographer, author of the book the royals. Currently working on the biographer of the Bush dynasty.

Here is in Los Angeles, Dicky Arbiter the former spokesman for Buckingham Palace, former press officer for the queen and the prince and princess of Wales.

And in London is Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of Burke's Peerage.

We go to Caruthersville, Missouri, hello.

CALLER: Yes, my question is for the panel.

KING: Yes, ahead.

CALLER: The Church of England was basically created so Henry VIII could divorce and be remarried. Why is it since then been considered taboo for other members of the royal family to marry divorced people.

KING: Mr. Lacey.

LACEY: It is a very good question. It is a basic irony as you correctly say. The Church of England was found in the 1530s when Henry VIII wished to change wife. Catherine of Aragon wasn't producing the sons he wanted. He changed to Anne Boleyn, she produced another girl Elizabeth. He went through several more wives and, indeed, the Church of England was created to make it flexibly possible for him to have a number of wives. But since then the church is teaching on divorce, has grown stricter. And the dilemma that it is taking at the moment, is although it would like to find a way of blessing the remarriage of divorced people, and course there are many people in the situation today. Traditionalists who feel that it doesn't have to go with the culture are unhappy. And although it has relaxed its laws recently, it still objects to the remarriage of the royal person whose present relationship reflects guilt in the original breakdown of the marriage, adultery to use the old-fashioned express or remarriage that would create scandal. And of course, when it comes to Prince Charles and Camilla, that is certainly the case.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: I'm sorry. Go ahead, Harold. Go ahead.

BROOKS-BAKER: I think it should also be said that oddly enough, because it is a very good question that you received that the first in this monarch George the 1st of Hannover was divorced before he even came to England. So, not only is it a good question, but I have to say that most of us wonder what this is all about. And I would say that it's a misplaced idealism that perhaps doesn't really belong in today's world.

KING: Tell me something, Dicky, is the Church of England basicly Episcopal. Is the Episcopal Church in the United States considered...

ARBITER: Yes. That's probably the close of the we get. It is quite interesting what, Robert, said about Henry VIII creating the Church of England. It was because Rome and the pope would not give Henry VIII the sensation, that he reluctantly broke away from Rome and created the Church of England.

KING: What does England think of the Episcopal Church of the United States now committing a gay priest?

ARBITER: You know, it's something that has actually come up in England fairly recently. There was the appointment of a bishop of Reading who was a gay priest. And he eventually had to stand down because it just was not acceptable. There were so many differing opinions that he stepped down.

KING: Bloomington, Illinois, hello?

CALLER: Yes, Henry VIII aside we have less and less regard for Charles as a future king of England. And we're wondering is there any possibility or any way that Elizabeth can bypass Charles and William would become king?

KING: Kitty.

KELLEY: No. There really isn't. The line of succession is the line of succession. And this woman is echoing what the princess of Wales once told to a newspaper editor that she really wanted the monarchy to pass from Queen Elizabeth to her son Prince William. But Charles has made it known that he intends to become king upon the death of his mother and that is the line of succession. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way it has to be.

KING: Can't change it.

ABRITER: You can only change it through an act of parliament, but it would create a constitutional crisis. That is something everyone would want to avoid, particularly a prime minister. The prime minister of the day would not want to have to take that decision.

KING: Miami, Florida. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: I have a question for that independent of thought, Robert Lacey.

KING: Go ahead.

CALLER: Remembering the Duke of Windsor who (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for a women, isn't it conceivable that Prince William could end up preferring the celebrity life and choose to predicate (ph) the thrown?

LACEY: That's a very interesting question which echoes the question we just had and I was about to come in and slightly disagree with my esteemed colleagues in America, Kitty and Dicky. There is, of course, the very firm line of succession and any attempts to jiggle or (UNINTELLIGIBLE) about with it would cause a great deal of constitutional farce, as Dicky has said.

On the other hand this, idea you just raised a preabdication, is not the word we used, but there have been members of the royal family within the last decades who have resigned their places in the order of succession in order to marry either Catholics or divorced persons. They're lower down the line. I don't see why it's impossible either for Prince Charles for whatever reason to resign his rights to the succession. I don't see how anybody could compel him to become king. And there's a more interesting point also you raise, if William got fed up with the destiny ahead of him. I think he could reside his place in the succession. I don't see what anybody can do about it. Harold, can you predicate?

BROOKS-BAKER: It's a wonderful word, but I would say that there is certainly no reason as Robert has just said for either the prince of Wales or his eldest son to take the throne if for some reason or other it doesn't suit them. But it is very likely as Kitty Kelly said that we will see Prince Charles on the throne and perhaps she, because she's a young woman will see his son follow him.

KING: Chesapeake, Virginia, hello.

BROOKS-BAKER: ...cannot predict history.

KING: Chesapeake, Virginia, go ahead. Chesapeake, are you there?

Apparently we lost Chesapeake, Virginia.

We'll take a break and come back with more calls for Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelly, Dicky Arbiter, and Harold Brooks-Baker.

You're watching LARRY KING LIVE don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with our panel. We go to New Orleans, Louisiana. Hello?

CALLER: Hi.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: I was wondering how the young princes feel about Camilla moving in with their father?

KING: Kitty, what do you think? We'll have the whole panel respond -- Kitty.

KELLEY: I don't think that she would be moving in with their father unless they approved. I think that he's been quite good about that and I think that the two boys, accept Camilla as somebody their father cares a great deal about and someone that he needs and I don't feel that they feel it dishonors the memory of their mother in any way.

KING: Robert?

LACEY: I agree with Kitty completely on that and I would go one stage further and perhaps a little more controversially. Let's not forget that these two boys, William and Harry, were the closest of all witnesses to the terrible breakup of their parent's marriage. They were the victims, but they saw what was going on and without knowing the exact details. It is clear that they saw there was fault on both sides and the affection they clearly feel and demonstrate for their father and -- I just remembered the "Vanity Fair" article has some very interesting points to make about how William had to act as a crutch to his mother and his little baby brother as things were going wrong. Great strains on him.

They knew what a fruit cake wheels Diana could be on occasions and therefore while revering the memory of their mother, they might well understand why their father would like a calmer companion which he now has.

KING: Do you agree?

ARBITER: Yes, do I agree. When the breakup in the marriage was happening, these two boys were very young and what we see today are two youngsters who have not been scarred by this traumatic breakup of the marriage of their parents and I think with the passing of their mother and the memory of their mother will stay with them forever. But if their father is happy then they're happy and if their father is happy with Camilla Parker Bowles, then so be it. That's the way it should be.

KING: Harold, you make it unanimous?

BROOKS-BAKER: My view on this is that I not only agree, but I more than agree. All you have to do is to look at the photographs of Prince William when he was with his mother in San Tropez that last sad summer along with al Fayed's son Dode and I you could see how much happier he is today. Of course, he adored his mother, but on the other hand his father was always a superb father, a hands-on father and they are as close as any friends, not only sons, can be.

So I think that if you are looking for the approbation of children, these two young men have give 10 over and over again to their father for the lifestyle that their father has chosen and in no way is that against anything connecting with the memory of the late Princess of Wales.

ARBITER: But he doesn't signal marriage.

KING: Ellicott City, Maryland. Hello?

CALLER: Yes, thank you for taking my call.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: My question for the panel has to do with the tremendous amount of criticism with Prince Charles because of his adulterous relationship. Is there any indication that Camilla Parker Bowles was ever faithful to her husband?

KING: Dicky?

ARBITER: Well, she wasn't faithful to her husband. This has become very apparent as the story unfolds, that even while she was married to her husband and the breakdown in the marriage of the Prince and Princess she was seeing the Prince of Wales. She was seeing the Prince of Wales after she got married so, no, she wasn't faithful to her husband in the same way that he wasn't faithful to his wife.

KING: Yet they both, Robert, today have a very good image, do they not In london and in England?

LACEY: Yes, yes they do. And again, I agree on this occasion totally with Dicky and indeed to go a stage further, Major Parker Bowles is by no means faithful to his wife and got very close indeed and is said at the moment to be very close, indeed to Princess Anne.

KING: No kidding?

LACEY: These Parker Bowles' -- no kidding at all.

KING: I'm shocked!

ARBITER: No, don't be quite shocked. They've always been quite close. That's the horse relationship but they've also been close and Robert is right for bringing that one up.

KING: Kitty, what is it about the royals or is it just the reflection of life in general?

KELLEY: That makes us scream with laughter, you mean?

KING: No, I mean the he's with him, she's with her and he's with them and them and them.

KELLEY: The rest of us would get into so much trouble if we did it, but here you are just speaking beautifully with your British accents and you're saying, you know, it's quite all right and of course, Princess Anne, well everybody knows that. I mean --

ARBITER: But Kittly, look historically. It's been happening since the beginning of time within royalty. You take.

KELLEY: Well Dicky, you can't use history to excuse all of this.

ARBITER: No, no, no, I'm not excusing it at all. I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying to go back with the Prince of Wales' great-great grandfather Edward VII. He had this 12 year relationship with Alice Kettle whose his great-grandmother to Camilla Parker Bowles. He was coming up for 59, she was coming up for 29, so there's this great age difference. She was very glamorous, he was 225 pounds. He had five big meals a day, drank a quantities of whiskey.

KING: Can he tell a joke, though. He could with a sense of humor. He was a funny guy.

KELLEY: So the man was a fatty pants. We know that, but...

ARBITER: Come on, out with it.

KING: He had a lot of appeal.

ARBITER: He must of had something.

KELLEY: Did he? In this country, we're very, very provincial here. We're not quite as sophisticated as you Brits are.

KING: That's correct.

ARBITER: I don't know, we read the gossip columns. We read the gossip columns in England.

KING: It's been done in the United States, to admit it, Kitty, just face it, it's happened here, too.

KELLEY: It has happened. It has.

KING: OK. Let me get a break and come back with some more calls for Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley, Dicky Arbiter and Harold Brooks-Baker. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Our next caller is from Brarry in Wales. Aha! Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. Thanks for having me on the program.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: I'd just like to ask the panel why we're not discussing the issue about him being the future prince of Wales before we even get on to the issue of him being king of England. I think that is an important issue we need to discuss, especially because he is going to be the future head of state for my country.

KING: That's William, right? OK, Robert?

LACEY: Well, he is technically called William of Wales, but this is a very good point. I mean, his father is the prince of Wales and for many years going right back to the Middle Ages, when this title of prince of wales was taken by the English and given to the heirs to the throne, there's been an element of calm trick (ph) about it.

The first prince of Wales was created to keep the Welsh happy so the king of England could go off and then fight the Scots. And Prince Charles himself was only the second prince of Wales actually to be inaugurated in Wales and I call....

KING: So what we're saying, Robert, is William will be prince of Wales?

LACEY: William will be prince of Wales when his father -- if and when his father becomes king. It is probable, although not absolutely definite that he will become prince of Wales, yes.

KING: And the prince of Wales has responsibilities, right, Dickie?

ARBITER: The prince of Wales does have responsibilities. He has a responsibility to the principality. And I think, you know, this is something that hasn't come up, the fact that William, on his 21st birthday, in an interview said he's learning Swahili. I think he should be learning Welsh before he learns Swahili.

KING: The caller from Wales probably agrees.

North Kingston, Rhode Island, hello. Are you there North Kingston?

OK, let's try Bel Air, Maryland, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: It's no secret that Prince Charles was in love with Camilla before he married Diana. Why didn't he just marry Diana -- I mean, why didn't he just marry Camilla?

KING: Harold, why did he marry -- why didn't he marry Camilla, Harold?

BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think the answer is very simple. At that time, it was still thought that the heir of the throne should marry a virgin. It is absolutely true that she probably was a virgin, the princess of Wales. Her uncle announced to the press that she was a virgin. Also, she -- her birth was more interesting than Camilla Parker Bowles as far as royal connections were concerned. She descends -- the late princess of Wales descended from every king of Scotland, just as the Queen Mother did. And she was a suitable young woman as far as royal families -- and remember, what I said before, that we're not really talking about nine thrones. They all agreed that she was the right type of person to be a future queen, to produce the children for the prince of Wales.

Times have changed. People no longer look at the situation the way they did back in 1980. But I think that it's perfectly obvious that the royal families can make mistakes and a huge mistake was made in what I described in those days as a semi-arranged marriage which turned out to be a completely arranged marriage.

KING: One more call. Ontario, Canada, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: We were wondering what kind of relationship does William and Harry have with Diane's side of the family, specifically their uncle, Earl Spencer?

KING: Kitty?

KELLEY: Well, I think that the Windsors try and keep that relationship at arm's length and it has become fraught lately because the memorial fund for Diana, of all of the money that was sent in to support her causes and they found this foundation after her death, is now embroiled in terrible litigation and the executors of her estate are really quite at fault, so that the relationship has become even more strained than it was before. The two boys really do not see the Spencers that much at all. KING: Isn't that kind of sad, Robert?

LACEY: Yes, it is. I wouldn't agree with Kitty that the Windsors -- the Windsors are probably happy that their -- that the boys have turned out to be so much Windsors and not Spencers, as their uncle predicted at the funeral for Diana. But one interesting point was that when William recently celebrated his 21st birthday, he made a point of inviting all his Spencer relatives. That was the good news. The bad news was in a sense that it this was the first time they'd all met together since Diana's funeral.

August 31, six years will be the death of -- do you expect them to do something special on that occasion?

ARBITER: I don't think they will do anything special, but I still think that there will be a number of people who will make the pilgrimage to Kensington Palace, as they've done in the preceding years, to lay flowers employ. People go there daily.

KING: They do?

ARBITER: Yes, I think there's a sort of morbid curiosity, but it's also where Diana lived and they'd like to have their few moments of peace there. So yes, I think they will proceed there?

KING: Does Charles ever go to the death site?

(CROSSTALK)

KING: What about the boys, Kitty?

KELLEY: They've been. They have been. But their father has not been and the queen has never been.

KING: Never been?

KELLEY: Never.

KING: I thank you all very much for an illuminating hour with some fun, too. Robert Lacey, whose book, "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II," is now out in trade paperback.

Kitty Kelley, who is currently working on a biography of the Bush dynasty. She wrote the bestseller "The Royals."

Dicky Arbiter, the spokesperson -- former spokesperson for the palace and the press officer for the Queen and the prince and princess of Wales.

And always good to see Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of Berks Peerage.

I'll be back in a couple of minutes and tell you about tomorrow night. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: Sports fans, it's Wednesday. Don't forget to read my column, "Sports A La King," posted every week on CNN/"Sports Illustrated" on the Web. The address to get right to it, www.si.com/larryking. Hey, "Sports A LA King" is interactive. Give it a read, send me your e-mails. We write you back in the weekly mailbag. Once again, the address, www.si.com/larryking. Log on tonight and let's talk sports. We may even talk more sports on LARRY KING LIVE, which wouldn't be a bad idea either, because I love sports. And I hope you enjoy that column, by the way.

Tomorrow night, the Scott Peterson case. There's a big hearing tomorrow. We'll look into it tomorrow night.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 13, 2003 - 21:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight: Prince Charles and Camilla Parker- Bowles have finally officially moved in together. Could a royal wedding be around the corner? Meanwhile, Prince William raised a public outcry in England over the weekend when he speared a wild antelope on an African holiday. And what about those stories that Prince Harry is plowing through legions of long-stemmed blondes, inviting them to his dad's basement, known as "Club H"?
Tonight, all the hottest royals news and gossip with our panel of experts. Robert Lacey, author of the best-seller "Monarch"; Kitty Kelley, another best-selling royals biographer; Dickie Arbiter, the former press secretary to the queen and to the Prince and Princess of Wales; and Harold Brooks-Baker, director of Burke's Peerage. They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Before we start -- normally, all of our guests are either in London or New York. Dickie Arbiter is here with us in Los Angeles. What brings you to the new country?

DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO THE QUEEN: I became a grandfather.

KING: Oh, congratulations.

ARBITER: Yes, on the 1st of August, the first Anglo-American in the Fuhrman. Son-in-law's a Texan, Brian Brown (ph), just finished in "The Young and the Restless," and daughter over here. They've been married for about 20 months, and they produced a bonny baby, a bonny little boy named Dylan (ph) .

KING: Congratulations, Dickie. All right, Robert, "Vanity Fair," the newest issue has a whole magazine devoted to a photo portfolio of the new generations of royals, also an article on the future king. What do you make of all of this? Why do they not go away?

ROBERT LACEY, AUTHOR, "MONARCH": Well, I must say, I was rather daunted when that "Vanity Fair" plopped through the doormat. It's enormous. It's like a telephone directory. I think they must have destroyed a few forests for it.

Actually, the most interesting thing I found in the whole magazine was the article by its editor, Graydon Carter, at the beginning, which had nothing to do with royals. Well, it was all about your American royals and the Bush family and how they seem to get you into deficits and foreign wars. And then you look through the magazine, and you discover all these Europeans who've been put out of a job through spending too much of their country's money in foreign wars. So I think perhaps it's got a hidden agenda, but maybe Kitty knows about that. She's the expert on your royals.

KING: Yes, Kitty. Why would "Vanity Fair" do a whole issue on this?

KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR, "THE ROYALS": Well, it sounds like from Robert that he's saying that monarchs are dated. They're out of style. They're not part of the new world. Maybe "Vanity Fair" is trying to show us kind of the jeweled throwbacks to an era that isn't all that relevant anymore, really.

KING: And what do you think, Dickie?

ARBITER: Well, I think royals are relevant, and I think people are interested in them, otherwise magazines like "Vanity Fair" wouldn't be publishing page after page...

KING: They may be interested in them, but...

ARBITER: ... after page.

KING: ... what is their relevance?

ARBITER: I think their relevance -- I mean, if you look at the head of state, the queen, Queen Elizabeth II, the monarchs provide stability and continuity. They're a buffer between, you know, what the government does and what the government shouldn't be doing, as well. And nothing really gets past the monarch. And the monarch also has contact with presidents and prime ministers throughout the world many prime ministers don't. I mean, for example, the queen, head of the commonwealth, goes out -- and this year, it'll be in Nigeria, to the heads of government conference, and she will meet presidents and prime ministers of all the commonwealth countries.

KING: But without any clout, though. I mean...

ARBITER: Not with a lot of clout, but with a vast (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of information this she could then pass on to our own prime minister, who wouldn't necessarily meet these people.

KING: Harold, what do you make of all this attention?

HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, DIRECTOR, BURKE'S PEERAGE: Well, I think that it's rather understandable because Burke's Peerage, for example, proved a few years ago that the Bush family was related to the queen. It's all one big, happy family. Of the nine monarchs still holding thrones on the continent, the relationship between the queen and seven of these is unbelievably close, and several are advisers, in one way or another, to various members of the British royal family. It's all, in a way, one big, happy family. And when you see the way in which the ex-president of the United States goes in for shooting, it's not unlike a certain young member of the British family who goes in for shooting. KING: We will get to that and a lot of other things, but let's start first with Camilla and Charles moving in together. They now reside at Clarence House, a 19th century London mansion where the queen mother last lived. We'll start with you, Robert. What is -- what do you make of this? And is it leading to marriage?

LACEY: I think it is leading to marriage, yes. I went 'round Clarence House last week. What is remarkable is the way in which Prince Charles has had it decorated almost exactly in the style of his grandmother. It's very much a shrine to the queen mother, and it's also a great tribute to her popularity. There are 46,000 tickets available to go 'round Clarence House this summer, and they've all gone already. Of course, what we won't see, what nobody sees when they go 'round, are the sleeping arrangements upstairs. But apparently -- and the big thing they will not tell us is who's got the queen mum's bedroom. But apparently, Camilla has a suite up there. Charles has a suite up there. And the boys, William and Harry, each have their own rooms and a great big rumpus room, which they can trash as much as they like.

KING: I know these are modern times, Kitty, but does not the Church of England have any complaints about unmarried people living together?

KELLEY: Well, I'm sure they will, Larry. And I think you're quite right. These are morally relaxed times, but not so for the future king of England, and I think he's going to have to get on with it now. He's moved into Clarence House. You cannot be having a future king of England, especially when he still represents the Church of England, living with a woman who is not his wife. I mean, it doesn't give the very best example in the entire world.

KING: So you think he has to get married.

KELLEY: Oh, I think he absolutely has to, and the sooner the better. And I think he has to do it while the queen is still alive.

KING: Dickie?

ARBITER: I don't think they have to get married. And I'm at odds with Robert. I don't think they will get married. There isn't a need for them to get married. You know, there are a lot of people saying the monarchy's got to modernize. Now, on the one hand, we have Kitty saying, Well, they should get married. What do they want when they -- mean by modernizing? Why can't they just live together? It doesn't matter to...

KING: But wouldn't it be a...

KELLEY: Well, do you want your son-in-law and your daughter to be living together?

ARBITER: Well, they are living together, but they just happen to be married.

KELLEY: Right. ARBITER: But there is nothing in the world today that says that couples have now got to be married in order to live together and...

KELLEY: Well, Dickie, then why do they live together? I mean, if it were going to be that kind of relationship, then why couldn't Camilla have her house and Charles have his house and they could visit each other?

ARBITER: Well, actually, Camilla does still retain her house, and the Prince of Wales has his house at Highgrove. Clarence House will not be a permanent home, in that they will be there every day of the week, every week of the year.

KING: But they are, Harold, are they not, very public now. They go out together a lot. What does this say to you, Harold?

BROOKS-BAKER: Well, it says to me that Camilla Parker-Bowles is part of his life. In every way, except as far as the church and state are concerned, and they are married. It is not like the relationship that his ancestor had with -- Edward VII had with her grandmother, Mrs. Kebble (ph). And Mrs. Kebble was a close friend and practically a member of the royal family, but she was just one of many mistresses. Camilla Parker-Bowles is not one of many mistresses. She is the special, particular and much praised, closest friend to the Prince of Wales. There is no other friend.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

BROOKS-BAKER: In a way, I think that there is no royal family in the world that leads such a sensible, circumspect existence. The ways of the past have been put aside.

KING: We'll take a break and come back with more. We'll be including your phone calls as we look at the always never dull royals right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: All right, Robert Lacey, what's the latest on Prince William? He is now 21, is he not?

LACEY: Yes, he is, and he's in Africa at the moment. As you said at the head of the program, there's some controversy over here about stories that he killed a little deer while he was in Africa on a hunting expedition. He likes killing deer. He's been doing from quite an early age. He does it the Scottish way, which is called stalking. And it's something his grandmother, the queen, loved to do while she was fit and able. It involves crawling through the heather for hours with a gun and a gilly (ph), a Highlands servant beside you, downwind of the stag, and you get close enough and you shoot it. Apparently, he did the same in Africa, only with the Bushmen of the area. We've heard, when he was 21, that he's studying Swahili. And apparently, one reason for his trip to Africa is to brush up his Swahili. He was doing this. They invited him to go hunting. He killed a deer, and the animal lovers here in Britain are outraged.

KING: Dickie, why are you shake your head?

ARBITER: I don't believe it. You know, it...

KING: You don't believe he killed a deer?

ARBITER: I don't believe he killed a deer at all because, first of all, a dik-dik is very tiny. You can equate it with the size, say, of a whippet, a dog. It has a running speed of about 25 miles an hour. It is the sort of radar for kudu and zebra that roam the plains of the Masai Mara.

KING: So where did the story come from?

ARBITER: Oh, I think it was just a story that was hatched up. It hasn't been denied by St. James's Palace, but if you look at the British media post-Sunday, "The Mail" on Sunday story appearing, there has been no follow-up. So you've got to treat this one with a fair amount of skepticism.

KING: Kitty, his mother wanted him very much to be a little media-savvy, did she not?

KELLEY: She did, indeed, and she taught him to be very, very wary of paparazzi. And she used to say that she had hoped that he would conduct himself much the same way that John F. Kennedy, Jr., conducted himself. Diana admired Jacqueline Kennedy's son very, very much, and that's what she wished for William. It's probably been almost a harder life for William, though, because he has constant, constant media attention.

Dickie, I know I shouldn't take issue with this, but any time it comes to the palace denying or confirming something, you'll forgive me if I'm just a little bit skeptical.

(LAUGHTER)

ARBITER: Yes, I do forgive you for being skeptical. The palace don't deny everything. You know, if you start denying everything, if the poor guy had a sneezing fit, they'd say that he'd got some terrible disease. And you can't go admitting and denying everything. But I think if you look at the British media, which is quite vociferous in the way that it pursues stories, but it hasn't pursued this beyond what was reported on Sunday. And we've got some pretty hard tabloids, and if there was any substance to this story, it would still be running today, four days later.

KING: Any truth, Harold, to the rumors of his relationship with Lauren Bush, the president's model niece?

BROOKS-BAKER: I don't think that there is anything more than a distant admiration. But it's rather early in his life to start choosing somebody for him, not only because people marry very late today, but members of the royal families certainly don't rush into things. And he may not marry somebody who is royal, even though, in a certain way, the Bush family is partially royal. It is unlikely that you will hear anything definite for many, many years to come. But like all young men, he is going to have an eye for an attractive girl, and she is very attractive.

KING: Robert Lacey, is he still very, very popular, William?

LACEY: Oh, yes, he is. And I'd like to say about that romantic interest question you raised there -- there is this romantic dimension, and maybe Dickie's going to deny this, as well...

(CROSSTALK)

LACEY: ... in his trip to Africa.

ARBITER: He's got a whole string of girlfriends.

LACEY: Well, yes. Well, one of them, we know, is called Jessica Craig, known as "Jeca (ph)" for short. And she's definitely out there and he's definitely, I think, so far as we know, visiting her family, the Craigs, who have an enormous wildlife estate. She came over for his 21st birthday party, which famously had an "Out of Africa" theme. And so that seems to me, if we're betting people, the most likely squeeze that he's got at the moment. But as Dickie correctly says, he's got a lot of girlfriends. And good luck to him.

ARBITER: Yes, there were probably a lot of them at that party at Windsor Castle.

KELLEY: Larry, on the Lauren Bush thing -- when I interviewed her mother, Sharon Bush, she told me that Lauren had never met Prince William, that all there was was an e-mail that she sent to him, and they've never even been formally introduced.

KING: All right, let me get a break and come back, and we'll talk about Harry and then include your phone calls, also have some thoughts about Mr. Hewitt trying to sell the love letters of Diana, as well.

You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. We're discussing the royals, and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back. Let's start with Kitty this go-round. About Harry, "Vanity Fair" says he's been "plowing through legions of long- stemmed blondes, inviting them back to Club H, Harry's basement den at his dad's estate in Highgrove." What do you make of this?

(LAUGHTER)

KELLEY: Young boy on the move! And he has a wonderful pick-up line, I understand. He says, How would you like to come back to my palace and play?

(LAUGHTER)

KING: Harry's doing all right, then.

KELLEY: Harry's doing OK. He does seem to be very, very attracted to tall, long-stemmed blondes, not unlike his pretty mama.

KING: Dickie, what do you make of Harry's escapades?

ARBITER: I think they're perfectly healthy and perfectly...

KING: And normal.

ARBITER: And absolutely normal. And I think when I was Harry's age, I was chasing long-legged blondes. There weren't a lot of them around. But no, I think that's perfectly normal and good for him because, you know, life is too short to sort of be dowdy and boring.

KING: Harold, how's Harry doing?

BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, I think he's doing very well, and he is rather similar to many of his relations on the continent. Yes, he's interested in sports. And yes, he likes attractive girls. There's nothing very new or earthshaking about that. But he certainly is shaping up extremely well, and you can see that he's a healthy, happy young man. And the papers have been reasonably kind to him recently. But in a way, he's much more like his cousins in Denmark and Holland and perhaps even in Norway, and I think that the fact is that all these young members see their cousins on the continent constantly. One's off the throne and one's on the throne. And to understand them, it's necessary to really look at something like "Vanity Fair" which gives you the names of several hundred of their closest relations.

KING: Robert Lacey, what would you add about Harry?

LACEY: Well, I saw him playing polo last week -- me and 20,000 other people, let me add -- at the Windsor Great (ph) Park, where he played wonderfully. But I think the nicest thing for everybody there to see was he was with a lot of young friends of his own age. He played with intense competition, and it was a refreshing, wholesome sight.

I think Harry's problem is that we all willy-nilly typecast him as the naughty younger brother. And of course, his episode with drugs and drink a year or so didn't help that. I would imagine that his brother William is enjoying just the company of just as many long- stemmed blondes. And of course, though it's called Club H, I think the "H" refers to Highgrove and not to Harry. And I think William takes the blondes there, as well, and maybe they take them all together.

KING: Is he a good polo player, Robert?

LACEY: Excellent polo player. His father, Prince Charles, was the best polo player of his generation. He got up to a handicap of 4 out of 10, which is very, very good for an amateur player. And there's a lot of talk that Harry will do just as well as his father and is already outstripping his brother. And one of the nice things you see when you see them all play polo together is the competition and the way in which particularly the two brothers try and ride each other off.

KING: Dickie, what do you make now of Mr. Hewitt still trying to sell the love letters, asking apparently $16 million?

ARBITER: Well, he hasn't learned, has he. You know, I don't know whether you saw the show here in America.

KING: We played parts of it.

ARBITER: You played parts of it. And he came across -- I mean, he was castigated by the British press as a buffoon and the way he talked about his conquests, and what have you. He just hasn't learned. And quite frankly, he's got to do something. He's desperate for money. Basically, he's unemployable, so he's trying to tout these letters. But as we said a month ago, when we talked about this, the letters belong to him but the words don't. They are copyright.

KING: The writer of the letter owns the letter.

ARBITER: Exactly.

KING: But the writer of the letter is gone.

ARBITER: And they belong to the Diana estate. So he still doesn't own them. He owns the bits of paper. And anybody that might think that they can do something with them can't because they'd be faced with great litigation. So if they buy the letters, they're buying something they can't do anything with. They're just buying a piece of history.

KING: Kitty, what do you make of Hewitt?

KELLEY: Oh! Oh! I'm sorry, Larry. I just -- it's hard to be diplomatic. I think James Hewitt is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. The worst.

KING: Try to come forward on it, will you? Don't hanky-panky around.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: Do you have an opinion or not?

KELLEY: I'm sorry. I am really sorry!

ARBITER: You've never minced your words before, so why are you doing it now?

KING: Why -- why...

KELLEY: Exactly!

KING: Harold, what's the thoughts in Great Britain about Mr. Hewitt?

BROOKS-BAKER: I think that the English public has lost all interest in his life and what happens to him, and they would like to preserve the memory of the late Princess of Wales as much as possible. She was, after all, the most loved woman the world has ever known. And she has been gone now for 10 years. I think it's time...

KING: Six years.

BROOKS-BAKER: ... to realize...

KELLEY: Six years.

BROOKS-BAKER: ... that enough is enough.

KING: Yes. Six years gone.

BROOKS-BAKER: Six years. You're right. Mr. Lacey...

BROOKS-BAKER: And I think that...

KING: I'm sorry, go ahead.

LACEY: Well, I'd like to jump in. I'd like to jump in and say a few words in defense of James Hewitt.

KELLEY: Oh, Robert!

ARBITER: How can you?

KELLEY: I want to hear this!

LACEY: He did give the Princess of Wales -- well, listen to me, Kitty. He gave for a number of years great happiness and consolation to Diana in a very unhappy marriage. And it's all very well for us to jump up and down and make -- you know, complain about him exploiting her memory. We're all, in a way, exploiting her memory, talking about her after her death. And a lot of other people around Diana sold whatever they could. And the sainted butler, Paul Burrell, I think, is just as guilty of exploiting her memory. And yes, he's playing up to a certain stereotype, but I don't think he's as bad as all that.

ARBITER: Robert, I can't believe you're saying that. You've changed your tune in the space of four weeks because you castigated...

LACEY: Well, this is partly...

ARBITER: ... the man straight after his program.

LACEY: ... so I can disagree with you, Dickie.

(LAUGHTER)

KELLEY: Go for him, Dickie. Really. There's no shame.

ARBITER: We talked about this after that television program and -- I mean, what you didn't say spoke volumes.

KING: Aha! LACEY: Well, I -- I agree with the basic point of the commercialism, but you know, nothing is black and white in this world. And let us remember he had a role in her life. You could say he's a living illustration what terrible taste she had in men, as I think I said last time, but...

(CROSSTALK)

LACEY: I don't think -- well, absolutely. But as you say, he's unemployable. And the fact that he's totally identified in everybody's minds with Diana is -- was once a blessing for him. It's now the curse he's got to live with for the rest of his life.

KING: I got to take a break. And when we come back, we'll be going to your phone calls. As we go to break, here's a clip from "Confessions of a Cad," that special that Dickie mentioned about Mr. Hewitt. We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So do you think Prince Charles knew about the relationship you were having with his wife?

JAMES HEWITT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How?

HEWITT: Well, I think he would have been told by the security forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Let us reintroduce our panel discussion the royals, the subject of a major pictorial in the new "Vanity Fair."

In London, Robert Lacey, he is best selling author and veteran royal watcher. His book "Monarch: the life and reign of Elizabeth II," is out now in paperback.

In Washington is Kitty Kelley, the "New York Times" best selling biographer, author of the book the royals. Currently working on the biographer of the Bush dynasty.

Here is in Los Angeles, Dicky Arbiter the former spokesman for Buckingham Palace, former press officer for the queen and the prince and princess of Wales.

And in London is Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of Burke's Peerage.

We go to Caruthersville, Missouri, hello.

CALLER: Yes, my question is for the panel.

KING: Yes, ahead.

CALLER: The Church of England was basically created so Henry VIII could divorce and be remarried. Why is it since then been considered taboo for other members of the royal family to marry divorced people.

KING: Mr. Lacey.

LACEY: It is a very good question. It is a basic irony as you correctly say. The Church of England was found in the 1530s when Henry VIII wished to change wife. Catherine of Aragon wasn't producing the sons he wanted. He changed to Anne Boleyn, she produced another girl Elizabeth. He went through several more wives and, indeed, the Church of England was created to make it flexibly possible for him to have a number of wives. But since then the church is teaching on divorce, has grown stricter. And the dilemma that it is taking at the moment, is although it would like to find a way of blessing the remarriage of divorced people, and course there are many people in the situation today. Traditionalists who feel that it doesn't have to go with the culture are unhappy. And although it has relaxed its laws recently, it still objects to the remarriage of the royal person whose present relationship reflects guilt in the original breakdown of the marriage, adultery to use the old-fashioned express or remarriage that would create scandal. And of course, when it comes to Prince Charles and Camilla, that is certainly the case.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: I'm sorry. Go ahead, Harold. Go ahead.

BROOKS-BAKER: I think it should also be said that oddly enough, because it is a very good question that you received that the first in this monarch George the 1st of Hannover was divorced before he even came to England. So, not only is it a good question, but I have to say that most of us wonder what this is all about. And I would say that it's a misplaced idealism that perhaps doesn't really belong in today's world.

KING: Tell me something, Dicky, is the Church of England basicly Episcopal. Is the Episcopal Church in the United States considered...

ARBITER: Yes. That's probably the close of the we get. It is quite interesting what, Robert, said about Henry VIII creating the Church of England. It was because Rome and the pope would not give Henry VIII the sensation, that he reluctantly broke away from Rome and created the Church of England.

KING: What does England think of the Episcopal Church of the United States now committing a gay priest?

ARBITER: You know, it's something that has actually come up in England fairly recently. There was the appointment of a bishop of Reading who was a gay priest. And he eventually had to stand down because it just was not acceptable. There were so many differing opinions that he stepped down.

KING: Bloomington, Illinois, hello?

CALLER: Yes, Henry VIII aside we have less and less regard for Charles as a future king of England. And we're wondering is there any possibility or any way that Elizabeth can bypass Charles and William would become king?

KING: Kitty.

KELLEY: No. There really isn't. The line of succession is the line of succession. And this woman is echoing what the princess of Wales once told to a newspaper editor that she really wanted the monarchy to pass from Queen Elizabeth to her son Prince William. But Charles has made it known that he intends to become king upon the death of his mother and that is the line of succession. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way it has to be.

KING: Can't change it.

ABRITER: You can only change it through an act of parliament, but it would create a constitutional crisis. That is something everyone would want to avoid, particularly a prime minister. The prime minister of the day would not want to have to take that decision.

KING: Miami, Florida. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: I have a question for that independent of thought, Robert Lacey.

KING: Go ahead.

CALLER: Remembering the Duke of Windsor who (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for a women, isn't it conceivable that Prince William could end up preferring the celebrity life and choose to predicate (ph) the thrown?

LACEY: That's a very interesting question which echoes the question we just had and I was about to come in and slightly disagree with my esteemed colleagues in America, Kitty and Dicky. There is, of course, the very firm line of succession and any attempts to jiggle or (UNINTELLIGIBLE) about with it would cause a great deal of constitutional farce, as Dicky has said.

On the other hand this, idea you just raised a preabdication, is not the word we used, but there have been members of the royal family within the last decades who have resigned their places in the order of succession in order to marry either Catholics or divorced persons. They're lower down the line. I don't see why it's impossible either for Prince Charles for whatever reason to resign his rights to the succession. I don't see how anybody could compel him to become king. And there's a more interesting point also you raise, if William got fed up with the destiny ahead of him. I think he could reside his place in the succession. I don't see what anybody can do about it. Harold, can you predicate?

BROOKS-BAKER: It's a wonderful word, but I would say that there is certainly no reason as Robert has just said for either the prince of Wales or his eldest son to take the throne if for some reason or other it doesn't suit them. But it is very likely as Kitty Kelly said that we will see Prince Charles on the throne and perhaps she, because she's a young woman will see his son follow him.

KING: Chesapeake, Virginia, hello.

BROOKS-BAKER: ...cannot predict history.

KING: Chesapeake, Virginia, go ahead. Chesapeake, are you there?

Apparently we lost Chesapeake, Virginia.

We'll take a break and come back with more calls for Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelly, Dicky Arbiter, and Harold Brooks-Baker.

You're watching LARRY KING LIVE don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with our panel. We go to New Orleans, Louisiana. Hello?

CALLER: Hi.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: I was wondering how the young princes feel about Camilla moving in with their father?

KING: Kitty, what do you think? We'll have the whole panel respond -- Kitty.

KELLEY: I don't think that she would be moving in with their father unless they approved. I think that he's been quite good about that and I think that the two boys, accept Camilla as somebody their father cares a great deal about and someone that he needs and I don't feel that they feel it dishonors the memory of their mother in any way.

KING: Robert?

LACEY: I agree with Kitty completely on that and I would go one stage further and perhaps a little more controversially. Let's not forget that these two boys, William and Harry, were the closest of all witnesses to the terrible breakup of their parent's marriage. They were the victims, but they saw what was going on and without knowing the exact details. It is clear that they saw there was fault on both sides and the affection they clearly feel and demonstrate for their father and -- I just remembered the "Vanity Fair" article has some very interesting points to make about how William had to act as a crutch to his mother and his little baby brother as things were going wrong. Great strains on him.

They knew what a fruit cake wheels Diana could be on occasions and therefore while revering the memory of their mother, they might well understand why their father would like a calmer companion which he now has.

KING: Do you agree?

ARBITER: Yes, do I agree. When the breakup in the marriage was happening, these two boys were very young and what we see today are two youngsters who have not been scarred by this traumatic breakup of the marriage of their parents and I think with the passing of their mother and the memory of their mother will stay with them forever. But if their father is happy then they're happy and if their father is happy with Camilla Parker Bowles, then so be it. That's the way it should be.

KING: Harold, you make it unanimous?

BROOKS-BAKER: My view on this is that I not only agree, but I more than agree. All you have to do is to look at the photographs of Prince William when he was with his mother in San Tropez that last sad summer along with al Fayed's son Dode and I you could see how much happier he is today. Of course, he adored his mother, but on the other hand his father was always a superb father, a hands-on father and they are as close as any friends, not only sons, can be.

So I think that if you are looking for the approbation of children, these two young men have give 10 over and over again to their father for the lifestyle that their father has chosen and in no way is that against anything connecting with the memory of the late Princess of Wales.

ARBITER: But he doesn't signal marriage.

KING: Ellicott City, Maryland. Hello?

CALLER: Yes, thank you for taking my call.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: My question for the panel has to do with the tremendous amount of criticism with Prince Charles because of his adulterous relationship. Is there any indication that Camilla Parker Bowles was ever faithful to her husband?

KING: Dicky?

ARBITER: Well, she wasn't faithful to her husband. This has become very apparent as the story unfolds, that even while she was married to her husband and the breakdown in the marriage of the Prince and Princess she was seeing the Prince of Wales. She was seeing the Prince of Wales after she got married so, no, she wasn't faithful to her husband in the same way that he wasn't faithful to his wife.

KING: Yet they both, Robert, today have a very good image, do they not In london and in England?

LACEY: Yes, yes they do. And again, I agree on this occasion totally with Dicky and indeed to go a stage further, Major Parker Bowles is by no means faithful to his wife and got very close indeed and is said at the moment to be very close, indeed to Princess Anne.

KING: No kidding?

LACEY: These Parker Bowles' -- no kidding at all.

KING: I'm shocked!

ARBITER: No, don't be quite shocked. They've always been quite close. That's the horse relationship but they've also been close and Robert is right for bringing that one up.

KING: Kitty, what is it about the royals or is it just the reflection of life in general?

KELLEY: That makes us scream with laughter, you mean?

KING: No, I mean the he's with him, she's with her and he's with them and them and them.

KELLEY: The rest of us would get into so much trouble if we did it, but here you are just speaking beautifully with your British accents and you're saying, you know, it's quite all right and of course, Princess Anne, well everybody knows that. I mean --

ARBITER: But Kittly, look historically. It's been happening since the beginning of time within royalty. You take.

KELLEY: Well Dicky, you can't use history to excuse all of this.

ARBITER: No, no, no, I'm not excusing it at all. I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying to go back with the Prince of Wales' great-great grandfather Edward VII. He had this 12 year relationship with Alice Kettle whose his great-grandmother to Camilla Parker Bowles. He was coming up for 59, she was coming up for 29, so there's this great age difference. She was very glamorous, he was 225 pounds. He had five big meals a day, drank a quantities of whiskey.

KING: Can he tell a joke, though. He could with a sense of humor. He was a funny guy.

KELLEY: So the man was a fatty pants. We know that, but...

ARBITER: Come on, out with it.

KING: He had a lot of appeal.

ARBITER: He must of had something.

KELLEY: Did he? In this country, we're very, very provincial here. We're not quite as sophisticated as you Brits are.

KING: That's correct.

ARBITER: I don't know, we read the gossip columns. We read the gossip columns in England.

KING: It's been done in the United States, to admit it, Kitty, just face it, it's happened here, too.

KELLEY: It has happened. It has.

KING: OK. Let me get a break and come back with some more calls for Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley, Dicky Arbiter and Harold Brooks-Baker. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Our next caller is from Brarry in Wales. Aha! Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. Thanks for having me on the program.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: I'd just like to ask the panel why we're not discussing the issue about him being the future prince of Wales before we even get on to the issue of him being king of England. I think that is an important issue we need to discuss, especially because he is going to be the future head of state for my country.

KING: That's William, right? OK, Robert?

LACEY: Well, he is technically called William of Wales, but this is a very good point. I mean, his father is the prince of Wales and for many years going right back to the Middle Ages, when this title of prince of wales was taken by the English and given to the heirs to the throne, there's been an element of calm trick (ph) about it.

The first prince of Wales was created to keep the Welsh happy so the king of England could go off and then fight the Scots. And Prince Charles himself was only the second prince of Wales actually to be inaugurated in Wales and I call....

KING: So what we're saying, Robert, is William will be prince of Wales?

LACEY: William will be prince of Wales when his father -- if and when his father becomes king. It is probable, although not absolutely definite that he will become prince of Wales, yes.

KING: And the prince of Wales has responsibilities, right, Dickie?

ARBITER: The prince of Wales does have responsibilities. He has a responsibility to the principality. And I think, you know, this is something that hasn't come up, the fact that William, on his 21st birthday, in an interview said he's learning Swahili. I think he should be learning Welsh before he learns Swahili.

KING: The caller from Wales probably agrees.

North Kingston, Rhode Island, hello. Are you there North Kingston?

OK, let's try Bel Air, Maryland, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: It's no secret that Prince Charles was in love with Camilla before he married Diana. Why didn't he just marry Diana -- I mean, why didn't he just marry Camilla?

KING: Harold, why did he marry -- why didn't he marry Camilla, Harold?

BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think the answer is very simple. At that time, it was still thought that the heir of the throne should marry a virgin. It is absolutely true that she probably was a virgin, the princess of Wales. Her uncle announced to the press that she was a virgin. Also, she -- her birth was more interesting than Camilla Parker Bowles as far as royal connections were concerned. She descends -- the late princess of Wales descended from every king of Scotland, just as the Queen Mother did. And she was a suitable young woman as far as royal families -- and remember, what I said before, that we're not really talking about nine thrones. They all agreed that she was the right type of person to be a future queen, to produce the children for the prince of Wales.

Times have changed. People no longer look at the situation the way they did back in 1980. But I think that it's perfectly obvious that the royal families can make mistakes and a huge mistake was made in what I described in those days as a semi-arranged marriage which turned out to be a completely arranged marriage.

KING: One more call. Ontario, Canada, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: We were wondering what kind of relationship does William and Harry have with Diane's side of the family, specifically their uncle, Earl Spencer?

KING: Kitty?

KELLEY: Well, I think that the Windsors try and keep that relationship at arm's length and it has become fraught lately because the memorial fund for Diana, of all of the money that was sent in to support her causes and they found this foundation after her death, is now embroiled in terrible litigation and the executors of her estate are really quite at fault, so that the relationship has become even more strained than it was before. The two boys really do not see the Spencers that much at all. KING: Isn't that kind of sad, Robert?

LACEY: Yes, it is. I wouldn't agree with Kitty that the Windsors -- the Windsors are probably happy that their -- that the boys have turned out to be so much Windsors and not Spencers, as their uncle predicted at the funeral for Diana. But one interesting point was that when William recently celebrated his 21st birthday, he made a point of inviting all his Spencer relatives. That was the good news. The bad news was in a sense that it this was the first time they'd all met together since Diana's funeral.

August 31, six years will be the death of -- do you expect them to do something special on that occasion?

ARBITER: I don't think they will do anything special, but I still think that there will be a number of people who will make the pilgrimage to Kensington Palace, as they've done in the preceding years, to lay flowers employ. People go there daily.

KING: They do?

ARBITER: Yes, I think there's a sort of morbid curiosity, but it's also where Diana lived and they'd like to have their few moments of peace there. So yes, I think they will proceed there?

KING: Does Charles ever go to the death site?

(CROSSTALK)

KING: What about the boys, Kitty?

KELLEY: They've been. They have been. But their father has not been and the queen has never been.

KING: Never been?

KELLEY: Never.

KING: I thank you all very much for an illuminating hour with some fun, too. Robert Lacey, whose book, "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II," is now out in trade paperback.

Kitty Kelley, who is currently working on a biography of the Bush dynasty. She wrote the bestseller "The Royals."

Dicky Arbiter, the spokesperson -- former spokesperson for the palace and the press officer for the Queen and the prince and princess of Wales.

And always good to see Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of Berks Peerage.

I'll be back in a couple of minutes and tell you about tomorrow night. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: Sports fans, it's Wednesday. Don't forget to read my column, "Sports A La King," posted every week on CNN/"Sports Illustrated" on the Web. The address to get right to it, www.si.com/larryking. Hey, "Sports A LA King" is interactive. Give it a read, send me your e-mails. We write you back in the weekly mailbag. Once again, the address, www.si.com/larryking. Log on tonight and let's talk sports. We may even talk more sports on LARRY KING LIVE, which wouldn't be a bad idea either, because I love sports. And I hope you enjoy that column, by the way.

Tomorrow night, the Scott Peterson case. There's a big hearing tomorrow. We'll look into it tomorrow night.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com