Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Today
Political Minefields
Aired August 21, 2003 - 10:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, let's get some diplomatic perspective on all of these events, including post-war Iraq, as well as the tensions in Israeli/Palestinian relations that we've seen get even more intense in the past few days. We can turn now to Laurence Eagleburger, who served as secretary of state under the first President Bush.
As always, good to see you, Mr. Secretary. Lots to talk about this morning and a short time to do it.
Let's get right to what we've been hearing right now about what's been happening at the U.N. First off, with what you just heard Michael Okwu say about the talks between U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell in his talks with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, the beginnings now we're seeing of this discussion about language in any resolution that might be used to bring on more nations and troop strength and whatnot in Iraq. What do you make of that talk right now? And then you hear what Michael just said, where the U.S. officials are downplaying this. What do you make of all of that?
LAURENCE EAGLEBURGER, FMR. SECY. OF STATE: Well, I think it's clear that the secretary of state would like to get some more U.N. Presence there, but I think also what we may be seeing with this downplaying is that we're running into the opposition that your reporter mentioned of the Germans, the French, and so forth being reluctant to put anybody in there in line with their reluctance and recalcitrance over the last few months.
So I think what you've got is a kind of a ping-pong game here with the secretary anxious to get more U.N. presence. At that same time, our worry that we're not going to get our staunch allies to join us.
HARRIS: Where do you think most of the pressure lies right now? Does it appear, at least not to most casual observers, that the international community needs to be there as much as perhaps the Bush administration needs them to be in there?
EAGLEBURGER: I think that's probably right as well. The administration really would like to see more countries involved. I think it is probably also true that we'd like to be able to share the burden here a bit more. I think you're right.
I think also, on the other hand, it is clear that we're going to have to get more active on the nasty scale if we're going to get this thing settled in Iraq.
HARRIS: What do you mean by that?
EAGLEBURGER: I think we're going to have to get tougher. I think particularly, we're going to have to get tougher with regard -- if it is true that the Iranians and the Syrians are slipping people in through their borders, I don't think we can continue to tolerate that very much longer without getting fairly nasty on those borders.
HARRIS: Very interesting.
Let's talk about what's happening right now with the situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians. I'm sure you've heard moments ago...
EAGLEBURGER: It's a mess.
HARRIS: ... comments made by Secretary of State Colin Powell when asked whether or not the end of the road has been reached with -- the end of the road has been reached with a road map, he said something to the effect that at the end of the road is a cliff over which both parties will end up tumbling. But we're not there yet, at least in his words. OK, I want your assessment on that. If we're not there at that particular point, then where are we?
EAGLEBURGER: Well, we're awfully close to the end of that road, I'm afraid. I think what happened with the bombing of this bus is horrendous. And I hope we're not about to start lecturing the Israelis again about patience and so forth. They took it on the nose on this one, and it's horrible.
I talked to a friend of mine who has a son who was right there at the time of that bombing and he went in and helped pull people out of that bus. And I must tell you, I listened to him, and it is an awful story. So I think we -- if we're not at the end of the road map, we're very close to it.
HARRIS: If these two parties are careening toward the end of the road where that cliff is, what is the U.S. to do at this particular point? Specifically, do you have any suggestions?
EAGLEBURGER: Well, I'll tell you what, the answer to that, is if I really knew the answer to that, I would be unlike everybody else, who I don't think has the answers either. But the points I would make is No. 1, we have to make it clear we're prepared to stay as long as the parties want us to stay. That's point one.
Point two, I really do think we have got to become more engaged in dealing with the terrorists in and around that area. I cannot understand why we don't take Hezbollah and the -- and Hamas and so forth on in and around -- not in Israel itself, but in the locality. They're terrorists. Why don't we take them on as well? The Baca (ph) Valley just beckons to us to go in there and drop a few bombs and see if we can't get a few people out of the way.
HARRIS: Tough words there, but we may be in for some tough times. We sure do appreciate your time as always.
EAGLEBURGER: Thank you, sir.
HARRIS: Former Secretary of state Laurence Eagleburger. Be well. Nice to see you.
EAGLEBURGER: Thank you. You, too.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 21, 2003 - 10:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LEON HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, let's get some diplomatic perspective on all of these events, including post-war Iraq, as well as the tensions in Israeli/Palestinian relations that we've seen get even more intense in the past few days. We can turn now to Laurence Eagleburger, who served as secretary of state under the first President Bush.
As always, good to see you, Mr. Secretary. Lots to talk about this morning and a short time to do it.
Let's get right to what we've been hearing right now about what's been happening at the U.N. First off, with what you just heard Michael Okwu say about the talks between U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell in his talks with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, the beginnings now we're seeing of this discussion about language in any resolution that might be used to bring on more nations and troop strength and whatnot in Iraq. What do you make of that talk right now? And then you hear what Michael just said, where the U.S. officials are downplaying this. What do you make of all of that?
LAURENCE EAGLEBURGER, FMR. SECY. OF STATE: Well, I think it's clear that the secretary of state would like to get some more U.N. Presence there, but I think also what we may be seeing with this downplaying is that we're running into the opposition that your reporter mentioned of the Germans, the French, and so forth being reluctant to put anybody in there in line with their reluctance and recalcitrance over the last few months.
So I think what you've got is a kind of a ping-pong game here with the secretary anxious to get more U.N. presence. At that same time, our worry that we're not going to get our staunch allies to join us.
HARRIS: Where do you think most of the pressure lies right now? Does it appear, at least not to most casual observers, that the international community needs to be there as much as perhaps the Bush administration needs them to be in there?
EAGLEBURGER: I think that's probably right as well. The administration really would like to see more countries involved. I think it is probably also true that we'd like to be able to share the burden here a bit more. I think you're right.
I think also, on the other hand, it is clear that we're going to have to get more active on the nasty scale if we're going to get this thing settled in Iraq.
HARRIS: What do you mean by that?
EAGLEBURGER: I think we're going to have to get tougher. I think particularly, we're going to have to get tougher with regard -- if it is true that the Iranians and the Syrians are slipping people in through their borders, I don't think we can continue to tolerate that very much longer without getting fairly nasty on those borders.
HARRIS: Very interesting.
Let's talk about what's happening right now with the situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians. I'm sure you've heard moments ago...
EAGLEBURGER: It's a mess.
HARRIS: ... comments made by Secretary of State Colin Powell when asked whether or not the end of the road has been reached with -- the end of the road has been reached with a road map, he said something to the effect that at the end of the road is a cliff over which both parties will end up tumbling. But we're not there yet, at least in his words. OK, I want your assessment on that. If we're not there at that particular point, then where are we?
EAGLEBURGER: Well, we're awfully close to the end of that road, I'm afraid. I think what happened with the bombing of this bus is horrendous. And I hope we're not about to start lecturing the Israelis again about patience and so forth. They took it on the nose on this one, and it's horrible.
I talked to a friend of mine who has a son who was right there at the time of that bombing and he went in and helped pull people out of that bus. And I must tell you, I listened to him, and it is an awful story. So I think we -- if we're not at the end of the road map, we're very close to it.
HARRIS: If these two parties are careening toward the end of the road where that cliff is, what is the U.S. to do at this particular point? Specifically, do you have any suggestions?
EAGLEBURGER: Well, I'll tell you what, the answer to that, is if I really knew the answer to that, I would be unlike everybody else, who I don't think has the answers either. But the points I would make is No. 1, we have to make it clear we're prepared to stay as long as the parties want us to stay. That's point one.
Point two, I really do think we have got to become more engaged in dealing with the terrorists in and around that area. I cannot understand why we don't take Hezbollah and the -- and Hamas and so forth on in and around -- not in Israel itself, but in the locality. They're terrorists. Why don't we take them on as well? The Baca (ph) Valley just beckons to us to go in there and drop a few bombs and see if we can't get a few people out of the way.
HARRIS: Tough words there, but we may be in for some tough times. We sure do appreciate your time as always.
EAGLEBURGER: Thank you, sir.
HARRIS: Former Secretary of state Laurence Eagleburger. Be well. Nice to see you.
EAGLEBURGER: Thank you. You, too.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
