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CNN Live Saturday
What Can U.S. Do To Help Conflict In Middle East?
Aired August 23, 2003 - 18:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: Is there anything the U.S. can do to help end the conflict in the Middle East? Michael Hudson directs the Center for contemporary Arab Studies at Georgetown University.
Welcome Mr. Hudson, I'd like to start off by asking you, it's sort of been the elephant in the room for the last several months and that is Yasser Arafat but we heard distinctly Secretary of State Colin Powell call on Yasser Arafat by name said do as Suzanne was just saying transfer the security forces to Mahmoud Abbas so that he can actually reign in the terrorism. Why do you think the administration has made that switch?
MICHAEL HUDSON, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Well, he's back, and I think the administration realizes things began to spin out of control and our policies seem to have hit a real dead end that Yasser Arafat is still the center and sort of heart of political legitimacy among the Palestinians. You can't really do without him.
He's been kind of sitting on the sidelines, letting his prime minister, Mr. Abbas kind of hang out to dry as these unfortunate things happened and now we find Colin Powell. I think it's a good move calling on Arafat to weigh in.
But I think it's a problem if as you were reporting the administration is basically kind of adopting the Israeli position on Hamas if that's all the administration is going to do I think that the Palestinians and the -- this moderate leadership of Abbas will be in a really difficult position because they won't feel that the United States is really being even handed.
KOPPEL: OK, so what should the U.S. do then?
HUDSON: Well, what should it do? Historically the nature of the problem, this problem, so difficult, yet it's so simple. And it can be summed up in one word. That word is occupation.
So if the U.S. were to do something in addition...
KOPPEL: You mean put troops on the ground?
HUDSON: No, I'm talking about the historic Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories.
KOPPEL: I understand what you're saying but -- so how do you -- how do you -- that's the end of what the whole road map is about is ending Israeli occupation, ending the terrorism. What do you do in the interim? What should the U.S. be doing? HUDSON: I think it can't really wait entirely to the end; I think this has to be a stage wise process, so what I would suggest is that in addition to trying to put Hamas and Islamic Jihad on the sidelines that another dramatic gesture be made toward the Israelis getting them to take some meaningful, obviously partial step for some letting up of the pressure.
That's almost impossible, I think, to do given the present you know political climate and the emotional feelings in Israel but I think that ultimately the United States has to move in that direction.
KOPPEL: In our remaining seconds here, Mr. Hudson, let's go back to your earlier point and that is Yasser Arafat is somebody that you have to engage, but that's been sort of a catch 22 he's been sidelined by the Israelis, sidelined by the U.S., what is in it for Yasser Arafat. How do you motivate him to cooperate?
HUDSON: Well, first of all you bring him back into the picture and maybe that's beginning to happen. Secondly, I think Arafat always felt that the Hamas and these other groups were a problem for him so I don't think that he's -- you know I don't think there's a kind of philosophical or a strategic problem here.
Arafat is actually a pretty pragmatic person and we forget now that Arafat actually did carry forth the PLO into a negotiating position getting into finally the Oslo process until of course it eventually collapsed.
So, Arafat is a little bit more complicated than some people here in Washington think, and maybe he can yet be engaged in a useful way.
KOPPEL: Well, as we approach the third anniversary of the intifada clearly this debate continues. Michael Hudson, thank you for coming in this evening.
HUDSON: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 23, 2003 - 18:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: Is there anything the U.S. can do to help end the conflict in the Middle East? Michael Hudson directs the Center for contemporary Arab Studies at Georgetown University.
Welcome Mr. Hudson, I'd like to start off by asking you, it's sort of been the elephant in the room for the last several months and that is Yasser Arafat but we heard distinctly Secretary of State Colin Powell call on Yasser Arafat by name said do as Suzanne was just saying transfer the security forces to Mahmoud Abbas so that he can actually reign in the terrorism. Why do you think the administration has made that switch?
MICHAEL HUDSON, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Well, he's back, and I think the administration realizes things began to spin out of control and our policies seem to have hit a real dead end that Yasser Arafat is still the center and sort of heart of political legitimacy among the Palestinians. You can't really do without him.
He's been kind of sitting on the sidelines, letting his prime minister, Mr. Abbas kind of hang out to dry as these unfortunate things happened and now we find Colin Powell. I think it's a good move calling on Arafat to weigh in.
But I think it's a problem if as you were reporting the administration is basically kind of adopting the Israeli position on Hamas if that's all the administration is going to do I think that the Palestinians and the -- this moderate leadership of Abbas will be in a really difficult position because they won't feel that the United States is really being even handed.
KOPPEL: OK, so what should the U.S. do then?
HUDSON: Well, what should it do? Historically the nature of the problem, this problem, so difficult, yet it's so simple. And it can be summed up in one word. That word is occupation.
So if the U.S. were to do something in addition...
KOPPEL: You mean put troops on the ground?
HUDSON: No, I'm talking about the historic Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories.
KOPPEL: I understand what you're saying but -- so how do you -- how do you -- that's the end of what the whole road map is about is ending Israeli occupation, ending the terrorism. What do you do in the interim? What should the U.S. be doing? HUDSON: I think it can't really wait entirely to the end; I think this has to be a stage wise process, so what I would suggest is that in addition to trying to put Hamas and Islamic Jihad on the sidelines that another dramatic gesture be made toward the Israelis getting them to take some meaningful, obviously partial step for some letting up of the pressure.
That's almost impossible, I think, to do given the present you know political climate and the emotional feelings in Israel but I think that ultimately the United States has to move in that direction.
KOPPEL: In our remaining seconds here, Mr. Hudson, let's go back to your earlier point and that is Yasser Arafat is somebody that you have to engage, but that's been sort of a catch 22 he's been sidelined by the Israelis, sidelined by the U.S., what is in it for Yasser Arafat. How do you motivate him to cooperate?
HUDSON: Well, first of all you bring him back into the picture and maybe that's beginning to happen. Secondly, I think Arafat always felt that the Hamas and these other groups were a problem for him so I don't think that he's -- you know I don't think there's a kind of philosophical or a strategic problem here.
Arafat is actually a pretty pragmatic person and we forget now that Arafat actually did carry forth the PLO into a negotiating position getting into finally the Oslo process until of course it eventually collapsed.
So, Arafat is a little bit more complicated than some people here in Washington think, and maybe he can yet be engaged in a useful way.
KOPPEL: Well, as we approach the third anniversary of the intifada clearly this debate continues. Michael Hudson, thank you for coming in this evening.
HUDSON: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
