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CNN Saturday Morning News
"Novak Zone"
Aired August 23, 2003 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Have you ever wanted to know the inside story of the spy game? Or ever wondered if James Bond could really exist? The International Spy Museum, the world's first museum dedicated to espionage, answers these questions and a whole lot more.
Robert Novak takes a look into the mysterious world of espionage this week in The Novak Zone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to The Novak Zone.
We're at the International Spy Museum in downtown Washington, D.C. Joining us is the museum's executive director, Peter Earnest, a veteran of 36 years in the CIA, 25 years in the clandestine services.
Peter Earnest, what is the purpose of a spy museum? What are you trying to show the people here?
PETER EARNEST, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SPY MUSEUM: Well, much of what we're trying to show people is the reality of espionage, particularly what's called humint or human intelligence, spies, recruiting spies, running spies.
And part of that comes, I think, because of the end of the cold war. We all knew so much espionage was going on during the cold war. We knew very little about it. And the museum is an attempt both to show, of course, the cold war, but also the history of espionage, the background of espionage, why spy? As long -- as well as take a global look at it. How do other countries spy? Who spies against us? Why?
NOVAK: We're in the historical section of the museum. Right behind you is the Trojan Horse, one of the great dirty tricks of history. But you spend a lot of space and effort on the cold war, don't you?
EARNEST: Downstairs is largely the cold war. It is a war. It is a phenomenon that dominated the latter part of the last century. It's what we all have grown up with. And so, yes, there is a fair amount of that, because it's relating people to a history that's very recent and one they're familiar with.
NOVAK: You also show that there are some celebrities who got involved one way or another in espionage, Marlene Dietrich and the chef, Julia Child, Josephine Baker working with the resistance in France. Are -- do you think that these kind of people are drawn to the spy craft?
EARNEST: Well, if you look at the celebrity spies, some were not celebrities.
NOVAK: At the time.
EARNEST: Julia Child was someone who volunteered to serve her country, she worked in OSS. Later she went to -- she learned -- she took up cooking and became Julia Child, who just gave her kitchen to the Smithsonian.
Others were actually celebrities, like Josephine Baker, Mo Berg, the baseball player, who, because of their celebrityhood, felt they could serve their country, in the case of Josephine Baker, France, by volunteering to help them during a time of great crisis.
And in many cases, they were very good.
NOVAK: We're now in the School for Spies section of the Spy Museum with Peter Earnest.
Peter, this is a replica of the Aston-Martin car used by James Bond in the movie, with all the bells and whistles. Is that at all an authentic type of car that might be used by a real spy? Was James Bond very authentic?
EARNEST: Well, I think we all know that James Bond was over the top, because James Bond was an intelligence service to himself, almost. Although every once in a while, he would report back to M and Miss Moneypenny.
I think, though, if you look at the car, and you see the defensive devices on it, there are a number of vehicles now around the world who have been equipped -- maybe not with everything, but some of what's on that car, because people are concerned, as you know, both in the corporate world and government, about kidnapping, hostile action, and so forth, in a variety of areas of the world.
NOVAK: To go from the fictional to the all-too-true, your museum does mention Robert Hanssen, the rogue FBI agent who spied for the Soviet Union, for the Russians, I should say, and now is in a federal prison. Was Robert Hanssen a vestige of the cold war? Or do you think we're likely to see more Robert Hanssens in the future?
EARNEST: I think we will always see spies, and I think, unfortunately, we'll see them in our country, certainly see them in other countries. And I think the reason for that is that there are a variety of reasons to spy.
And many of the people who, for example, spied for the United States, became our agents, were people who truly believed in what our country stood for, and they felt that by committing that act, they were opposing an oppressive regime in their own country.
There were, for example, Soviets who cooperated with us who were trying to overthrow what they felt was a rotten administration in the Soviet Union, in Russia. Of course, they were right.
NOVAK: Peter Earnest, the -- we are now in a war against terrorism. What does the spy museum tell us about the spycraft in the war against terrorism?
EARNEST: I think one of the things you're hearing, Bob, is that a lot people who have come out of the cold war have gone through the era where we have relied very heavily on technological means, overhead satellites, U2s, and so forth, realize that in this new war, we are going to have to go back to the traditional means of espionage. In a word, we need more spies.
Dealing with an al Qaeda, there's only so much you can find out with a U2 or an overhead satellite.
NOVAK: And now for the big question for Peter Earnest, executive director of the Spy Museum.
Peter, would I make a good spy?
EARNEST: You know, I think I have a way maybe we can find out. Step over here.
NOVAK: OK.
EARNEST: Now, Bob, the toughest role that you have as someone dealing with spies, dealing with agents, is trying to avoid surveillance, or spot surveillance so that you behave properly. You don't look suspicious.
Here is one of the interactive devices in the museum that's designed to familiarize you with the kinds of security surveillance you might encounter. So this is going to test your ability to spot what kind of surveillance devices you encounter in your everyday movings-around.
NOVAK: Whether it's hostile surveillance, a security system, or an unlucky break?
EARNEST: That's right. All right. There's a situation. What is that?
NOVAK: That's hostile surveillance.
EARNEST: There you are. There's your answer, businessperson...
NOVAK: I was right.
EARNEST: ... with a briefcase. All right. What's this?
NOVAK: That is -- I think that's an unlucky break.
EARNEST: OK.
NOVAK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
EARNEST: Did you spot the security system?
NOVAK: I didn't see that...
(CROSSTALK)
EARNEST: Got a video camera. And the issue is, there are more and more of those little babies around, and you got to be aware of them.
NOVAK: All right. I think I flunk as a spy.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE), Peter, what do you have coming up at the museum now?
EARNEST: Well, of course, we have a variety of devices in here to help you -- sensitize you, as it were. You won't leave here a spy, but you'll have some sense of what spies look for. And in the spring, we are doing a special exhibit here at the museum on terrorism, particularly terrorism in this country.
NOVAK: Peter Earnest, thank you very much.
And thank you for being in The Novak Zone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 23, 2003 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Have you ever wanted to know the inside story of the spy game? Or ever wondered if James Bond could really exist? The International Spy Museum, the world's first museum dedicated to espionage, answers these questions and a whole lot more.
Robert Novak takes a look into the mysterious world of espionage this week in The Novak Zone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, HOST: Welcome to The Novak Zone.
We're at the International Spy Museum in downtown Washington, D.C. Joining us is the museum's executive director, Peter Earnest, a veteran of 36 years in the CIA, 25 years in the clandestine services.
Peter Earnest, what is the purpose of a spy museum? What are you trying to show the people here?
PETER EARNEST, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SPY MUSEUM: Well, much of what we're trying to show people is the reality of espionage, particularly what's called humint or human intelligence, spies, recruiting spies, running spies.
And part of that comes, I think, because of the end of the cold war. We all knew so much espionage was going on during the cold war. We knew very little about it. And the museum is an attempt both to show, of course, the cold war, but also the history of espionage, the background of espionage, why spy? As long -- as well as take a global look at it. How do other countries spy? Who spies against us? Why?
NOVAK: We're in the historical section of the museum. Right behind you is the Trojan Horse, one of the great dirty tricks of history. But you spend a lot of space and effort on the cold war, don't you?
EARNEST: Downstairs is largely the cold war. It is a war. It is a phenomenon that dominated the latter part of the last century. It's what we all have grown up with. And so, yes, there is a fair amount of that, because it's relating people to a history that's very recent and one they're familiar with.
NOVAK: You also show that there are some celebrities who got involved one way or another in espionage, Marlene Dietrich and the chef, Julia Child, Josephine Baker working with the resistance in France. Are -- do you think that these kind of people are drawn to the spy craft?
EARNEST: Well, if you look at the celebrity spies, some were not celebrities.
NOVAK: At the time.
EARNEST: Julia Child was someone who volunteered to serve her country, she worked in OSS. Later she went to -- she learned -- she took up cooking and became Julia Child, who just gave her kitchen to the Smithsonian.
Others were actually celebrities, like Josephine Baker, Mo Berg, the baseball player, who, because of their celebrityhood, felt they could serve their country, in the case of Josephine Baker, France, by volunteering to help them during a time of great crisis.
And in many cases, they were very good.
NOVAK: We're now in the School for Spies section of the Spy Museum with Peter Earnest.
Peter, this is a replica of the Aston-Martin car used by James Bond in the movie, with all the bells and whistles. Is that at all an authentic type of car that might be used by a real spy? Was James Bond very authentic?
EARNEST: Well, I think we all know that James Bond was over the top, because James Bond was an intelligence service to himself, almost. Although every once in a while, he would report back to M and Miss Moneypenny.
I think, though, if you look at the car, and you see the defensive devices on it, there are a number of vehicles now around the world who have been equipped -- maybe not with everything, but some of what's on that car, because people are concerned, as you know, both in the corporate world and government, about kidnapping, hostile action, and so forth, in a variety of areas of the world.
NOVAK: To go from the fictional to the all-too-true, your museum does mention Robert Hanssen, the rogue FBI agent who spied for the Soviet Union, for the Russians, I should say, and now is in a federal prison. Was Robert Hanssen a vestige of the cold war? Or do you think we're likely to see more Robert Hanssens in the future?
EARNEST: I think we will always see spies, and I think, unfortunately, we'll see them in our country, certainly see them in other countries. And I think the reason for that is that there are a variety of reasons to spy.
And many of the people who, for example, spied for the United States, became our agents, were people who truly believed in what our country stood for, and they felt that by committing that act, they were opposing an oppressive regime in their own country.
There were, for example, Soviets who cooperated with us who were trying to overthrow what they felt was a rotten administration in the Soviet Union, in Russia. Of course, they were right.
NOVAK: Peter Earnest, the -- we are now in a war against terrorism. What does the spy museum tell us about the spycraft in the war against terrorism?
EARNEST: I think one of the things you're hearing, Bob, is that a lot people who have come out of the cold war have gone through the era where we have relied very heavily on technological means, overhead satellites, U2s, and so forth, realize that in this new war, we are going to have to go back to the traditional means of espionage. In a word, we need more spies.
Dealing with an al Qaeda, there's only so much you can find out with a U2 or an overhead satellite.
NOVAK: And now for the big question for Peter Earnest, executive director of the Spy Museum.
Peter, would I make a good spy?
EARNEST: You know, I think I have a way maybe we can find out. Step over here.
NOVAK: OK.
EARNEST: Now, Bob, the toughest role that you have as someone dealing with spies, dealing with agents, is trying to avoid surveillance, or spot surveillance so that you behave properly. You don't look suspicious.
Here is one of the interactive devices in the museum that's designed to familiarize you with the kinds of security surveillance you might encounter. So this is going to test your ability to spot what kind of surveillance devices you encounter in your everyday movings-around.
NOVAK: Whether it's hostile surveillance, a security system, or an unlucky break?
EARNEST: That's right. All right. There's a situation. What is that?
NOVAK: That's hostile surveillance.
EARNEST: There you are. There's your answer, businessperson...
NOVAK: I was right.
EARNEST: ... with a briefcase. All right. What's this?
NOVAK: That is -- I think that's an unlucky break.
EARNEST: OK.
NOVAK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
EARNEST: Did you spot the security system?
NOVAK: I didn't see that...
(CROSSTALK)
EARNEST: Got a video camera. And the issue is, there are more and more of those little babies around, and you got to be aware of them.
NOVAK: All right. I think I flunk as a spy.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE), Peter, what do you have coming up at the museum now?
EARNEST: Well, of course, we have a variety of devices in here to help you -- sensitize you, as it were. You won't leave here a spy, but you'll have some sense of what spies look for. And in the spring, we are doing a special exhibit here at the museum on terrorism, particularly terrorism in this country.
NOVAK: Peter Earnest, thank you very much.
And thank you for being in The Novak Zone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
