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CNN Live Sunday

Legal Roundtable

Aired August 24, 2003 - 10:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: A new legal crusade in the Ten Commandments dispute; a group called the Christian Defense Coalition says it's not giving up on the monument in Alabama's judicial building. It plans to file a lawsuit in federal court tomorrow. The group seeks to block its removal. Meanwhile the monuments champion Chief Justice Roy Moore has been suspended from the bench over the controversy. State officials say the monument could be moved this week to comply with a federal court order.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Our legal roundtable tackles the Ten Commandment disputes and that's for starter. From Miami this morning, criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning, Heidi.

COLLINS: Good morning.

And in New York 's Lisa Bloom coming to us from New York.

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: Hi

COLLINS: Hello to you.

Before we get to the Ten Commandments, though, ladies, I'd like to return to today's top story that being the prison killing of former Catholic priest John Geoghan and the question it raises. And I went want to let you know about that interview I did a little bit earlier this morning with Ambassador Raymond Flynn, the former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican.

He raised the question that Geoghan's murder -- alleged murder at this point, of course, proves that it's going to be very difficult to keep pedophiles in prison. What does this say about the legal system -- Lisa.

BLOOM: Well, I don't think it's tough to keep pedophiles in prison. There are thousands of pedophiles in prison. I think what it does show is that one institution, the church, went too far in protecting this sexual predator for many, many years. And this particular prison did not go far enough in protecting him. Most pedophiles are kept in seclusion, in solitary under lock and key, and they're protected from the rest of the population. Father Geoghan was not.

COLLINS: But it does say -- and Jayne, I'd like your reaction on this. At least in my readings that he was in protective custody, what does that mean?

WEINTRAUB: He wasn't in protective custody. It might mean -- they might mean that he was in semi protective custody, that he didn't have all the privileges of general population that everyone else has. If he were in real protective custody, he would be in isolation. He would be in separate facilities. He would never be able to mix with anyone else in the prison. And it's for this very reason: this is predictable prison behavior. And that's what I think Lisa was a loading to a moment ago.

This is the most abhorrent crime viewed by inmates on other inmates that are charged and convicted on this. That's something they will not tolerate in the jail. And so the prison had a duty and a responsibility to protect him from death. You know, it does bring up the underlying issue, of course, of this whole mess of the archdiocese covering up this horrible scandal to begin with. But I think that the point today really needs to focus on the prison needs to protect prisoners. He didn't have to die like this.

COLLINS: Let me also ask you about the status of the lawsuits now. We know that about 130 civil suits have been filed and then of course, there was the settlement in September of 2002 of $10 million, 86 victims of Geoghan's. Where do things stand now?

WEINTRAUB: Well, I don't think that this will -- I don't think his death will affect the civil suits at all. I mean the suits are against the church and the institution of the church, which you know they are responsible for the cover-up, as they've already, you know, settled many of these cases.

BLOOM: Heidi, I think it's interesting that victims did not want him to die. They wanted him to live so that he could be tried for his crimes, both civilly and criminally. All the criminal charges are over with his death. The civil cases can continue. But the victims said that they had gotten beyond anger and hatred. They just wanted the truth to come out. They wanted him to testify. Now that he's gone, that's not going to happen.

COLLINS: Yes. We certainly heard from both sides on that, no doubt.

Let's go ahead and move on now if we could ladies to the Ten Commandments. Just want to remind our viewers what we're talking about. The associate justices of Alabama's Supreme Court overruled Chief Justice Roy Moore, who we've been hearing about on Thursday, and ordered the removal of that monument of the Ten Commandments from the State Judicial Building there.

But Moore has fought this federal court order to remove that and where do things stand now? Plus we're hearing about the latest news that Christian Defense Coalition says, hey, you know we're not going to give up on this monument. And they're going to file a federal lawsuit tomorrow -- Lisa.

BLOOM: Well, Roy Moore is going to lose this legal battle and the Christian Coalition is going to lose the legal battle as well. It's an establishment of religion and violation of the First Amendment to elevate one religion over all others. And let's keep in mind that there are many religions that do not believe in the Ten Commandments, like: Hindus, Buddhists, many non-traditional religions. And so it's clearly unconstitutional.

But Roy Moore is engaged in a different battle, a PR battle. You know he ran for chief justice on a Ten Commandments platform and his supporters are rallying behind him. He's going to win, I think, in his campaign to be a martyr on this issue but he'll lose legally.

COLLINS: Jayne, your thoughts?

WEINTRAUB: My thoughts are that you know it isn't an issue of whether or not it's constitutional or not. I mean as Lisa was talking about it; I'm thinking we're past that. There is a federal court order now that has said that monument has to be removed. Period. We're past whether or not it violates the establishment clause. The court has ruled. And for the Supreme Court justice to defy that court order I find very troubling. What is the example here? You can't deliberately disregard a court order. And as lawyers and officers of the court that's what we tell our clients.

So what is the message here when the Supreme Court justice for personal reasons and personal beliefs, defies the court order? I think it's awful. I think that the suspension was probably the best thing that could happen.

COLLINS: All right, let's -- we only have a little bit of time left, ladies. So I would like to get to the last topic, and that would be Kobe Bryant. A judge in the case Thursday decided that he will release some of the sealed court documents, including the warrant that ordered Bryant's arrest following the alleged sexual assault in the NBA star's hotel room. Also, the issue of camera in the courtroom.

Talk to me about that, Lisa? How do you think cameras in the courtroom are going to affect this case?

BLOOM: Well, I think camera in the courtroom are important. I am employed by Court TV, so I have a little bit of a bias. But you know we don't have secret proceedings in this country. We don't dark, back alley evidence being offered up. It's the people of the state of Colorado versus Kobe Bryant. And the people have a right to know what's going on in that case and in virtually any other case in this country. I think cameras in the courtroom are a good thing. They're nothing to be afraid of and we should have them in this case and nearly every case.

COLLINS: And Jayne, what point does the press, though, and the public's right to know interfere with cases like this?

WEINTRAUB: I'll tell you my problem with cameras in courtroom. It's not a matter of the public's right to know. Of course, the public has a right to know. The public has access to the courtroom without a camera. My problem with cameras in the courtroom it creates an absolute circus. It detracts from the integrity of the process. That's why they're forbidden in federal court. They're only permitted in state court.

In federal court the court ruled it detracts from the substance of what's going on, to preserve the integrity of the judiciary and proceedings. And what does that mean? You know, I've tried cases where Lisa's been covering them in Court TV, and the problem is that we're all human. We all look over at the camera. We all -- I'll go put on lipstick I never put on before I cross-examine a witness.

BLOOM: Well, Jayne, you look great in that lipstick and you look great on Court TV. And I can tell that the thousands of cases that Court TV has aired, you know we've never caused a circus. No case has ever been reversed because of our cameras in the courtroom. Sometimes we expose the circus that's going on in that courtroom, but we don't create it by having one stationary camera in that courtroom.

COLLINS: All right. That's going to have to be the final word guys. Thanks so much for being with us this morning. Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney and Lisa Bloom of Court TV.

WEINTRAUB: Thank you, Heidi.

BLOOM: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 24, 2003 - 10:43   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: A new legal crusade in the Ten Commandments dispute; a group called the Christian Defense Coalition says it's not giving up on the monument in Alabama's judicial building. It plans to file a lawsuit in federal court tomorrow. The group seeks to block its removal. Meanwhile the monuments champion Chief Justice Roy Moore has been suspended from the bench over the controversy. State officials say the monument could be moved this week to comply with a federal court order.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Our legal roundtable tackles the Ten Commandment disputes and that's for starter. From Miami this morning, criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning, Heidi.

COLLINS: Good morning.

And in New York 's Lisa Bloom coming to us from New York.

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: Hi

COLLINS: Hello to you.

Before we get to the Ten Commandments, though, ladies, I'd like to return to today's top story that being the prison killing of former Catholic priest John Geoghan and the question it raises. And I went want to let you know about that interview I did a little bit earlier this morning with Ambassador Raymond Flynn, the former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican.

He raised the question that Geoghan's murder -- alleged murder at this point, of course, proves that it's going to be very difficult to keep pedophiles in prison. What does this say about the legal system -- Lisa.

BLOOM: Well, I don't think it's tough to keep pedophiles in prison. There are thousands of pedophiles in prison. I think what it does show is that one institution, the church, went too far in protecting this sexual predator for many, many years. And this particular prison did not go far enough in protecting him. Most pedophiles are kept in seclusion, in solitary under lock and key, and they're protected from the rest of the population. Father Geoghan was not.

COLLINS: But it does say -- and Jayne, I'd like your reaction on this. At least in my readings that he was in protective custody, what does that mean?

WEINTRAUB: He wasn't in protective custody. It might mean -- they might mean that he was in semi protective custody, that he didn't have all the privileges of general population that everyone else has. If he were in real protective custody, he would be in isolation. He would be in separate facilities. He would never be able to mix with anyone else in the prison. And it's for this very reason: this is predictable prison behavior. And that's what I think Lisa was a loading to a moment ago.

This is the most abhorrent crime viewed by inmates on other inmates that are charged and convicted on this. That's something they will not tolerate in the jail. And so the prison had a duty and a responsibility to protect him from death. You know, it does bring up the underlying issue, of course, of this whole mess of the archdiocese covering up this horrible scandal to begin with. But I think that the point today really needs to focus on the prison needs to protect prisoners. He didn't have to die like this.

COLLINS: Let me also ask you about the status of the lawsuits now. We know that about 130 civil suits have been filed and then of course, there was the settlement in September of 2002 of $10 million, 86 victims of Geoghan's. Where do things stand now?

WEINTRAUB: Well, I don't think that this will -- I don't think his death will affect the civil suits at all. I mean the suits are against the church and the institution of the church, which you know they are responsible for the cover-up, as they've already, you know, settled many of these cases.

BLOOM: Heidi, I think it's interesting that victims did not want him to die. They wanted him to live so that he could be tried for his crimes, both civilly and criminally. All the criminal charges are over with his death. The civil cases can continue. But the victims said that they had gotten beyond anger and hatred. They just wanted the truth to come out. They wanted him to testify. Now that he's gone, that's not going to happen.

COLLINS: Yes. We certainly heard from both sides on that, no doubt.

Let's go ahead and move on now if we could ladies to the Ten Commandments. Just want to remind our viewers what we're talking about. The associate justices of Alabama's Supreme Court overruled Chief Justice Roy Moore, who we've been hearing about on Thursday, and ordered the removal of that monument of the Ten Commandments from the State Judicial Building there.

But Moore has fought this federal court order to remove that and where do things stand now? Plus we're hearing about the latest news that Christian Defense Coalition says, hey, you know we're not going to give up on this monument. And they're going to file a federal lawsuit tomorrow -- Lisa.

BLOOM: Well, Roy Moore is going to lose this legal battle and the Christian Coalition is going to lose the legal battle as well. It's an establishment of religion and violation of the First Amendment to elevate one religion over all others. And let's keep in mind that there are many religions that do not believe in the Ten Commandments, like: Hindus, Buddhists, many non-traditional religions. And so it's clearly unconstitutional.

But Roy Moore is engaged in a different battle, a PR battle. You know he ran for chief justice on a Ten Commandments platform and his supporters are rallying behind him. He's going to win, I think, in his campaign to be a martyr on this issue but he'll lose legally.

COLLINS: Jayne, your thoughts?

WEINTRAUB: My thoughts are that you know it isn't an issue of whether or not it's constitutional or not. I mean as Lisa was talking about it; I'm thinking we're past that. There is a federal court order now that has said that monument has to be removed. Period. We're past whether or not it violates the establishment clause. The court has ruled. And for the Supreme Court justice to defy that court order I find very troubling. What is the example here? You can't deliberately disregard a court order. And as lawyers and officers of the court that's what we tell our clients.

So what is the message here when the Supreme Court justice for personal reasons and personal beliefs, defies the court order? I think it's awful. I think that the suspension was probably the best thing that could happen.

COLLINS: All right, let's -- we only have a little bit of time left, ladies. So I would like to get to the last topic, and that would be Kobe Bryant. A judge in the case Thursday decided that he will release some of the sealed court documents, including the warrant that ordered Bryant's arrest following the alleged sexual assault in the NBA star's hotel room. Also, the issue of camera in the courtroom.

Talk to me about that, Lisa? How do you think cameras in the courtroom are going to affect this case?

BLOOM: Well, I think camera in the courtroom are important. I am employed by Court TV, so I have a little bit of a bias. But you know we don't have secret proceedings in this country. We don't dark, back alley evidence being offered up. It's the people of the state of Colorado versus Kobe Bryant. And the people have a right to know what's going on in that case and in virtually any other case in this country. I think cameras in the courtroom are a good thing. They're nothing to be afraid of and we should have them in this case and nearly every case.

COLLINS: And Jayne, what point does the press, though, and the public's right to know interfere with cases like this?

WEINTRAUB: I'll tell you my problem with cameras in courtroom. It's not a matter of the public's right to know. Of course, the public has a right to know. The public has access to the courtroom without a camera. My problem with cameras in the courtroom it creates an absolute circus. It detracts from the integrity of the process. That's why they're forbidden in federal court. They're only permitted in state court.

In federal court the court ruled it detracts from the substance of what's going on, to preserve the integrity of the judiciary and proceedings. And what does that mean? You know, I've tried cases where Lisa's been covering them in Court TV, and the problem is that we're all human. We all look over at the camera. We all -- I'll go put on lipstick I never put on before I cross-examine a witness.

BLOOM: Well, Jayne, you look great in that lipstick and you look great on Court TV. And I can tell that the thousands of cases that Court TV has aired, you know we've never caused a circus. No case has ever been reversed because of our cameras in the courtroom. Sometimes we expose the circus that's going on in that courtroom, but we don't create it by having one stationary camera in that courtroom.

COLLINS: All right. That's going to have to be the final word guys. Thanks so much for being with us this morning. Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney and Lisa Bloom of Court TV.

WEINTRAUB: Thank you, Heidi.

BLOOM: Thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com