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American Morning

Al Qaeda in Iraq?; Monument Debate

Aired August 26, 2003 - 07:44   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Iraq is raising new questions about whether or not progress is being made toward securing the country of Iraq. The U.S. official in charge of getting that country back on its feet says al Qaeda is opposed to everything that reconstruction stands for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL BREMER, U.S./IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATOR: From the point of view of the al Qaeda types, this is a pretty important battlefield for them, because if we can establish the kind of Iraq that the Iraqi people dream of -- a free Iraq, an Iraq which can elect its own people, where people can choose their religion, where they can decide what kind of schools to send their kids to, they can decide what kind of jobs they want to have -- that kind of an Iraq is really a deadly threat to al Qaeda's cramped and extremist view of society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: So then, is al Qaeda streaming into Iraq?

With us to talk about that today, as well as the furor in Alabama over the Ten Commandments, is Democratic strategist Victor Kamber of The Kamber Group. Victor, good to have you back. Good morning to you.

VICTOR KAMBER, THE KAMBER GROUP: My pleasure. Good morning.

HEMMER: Former RNC spokesman Cliff May from the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy, as they're both in D.C. this morning for the Kamber and May show.

Good morning, gentlemen.

CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC SPOKESMAN: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Nice to have you here.

Victor, I thought your comments were rather interesting actually. You don't believe this argument about al Qaeda operatives streaming into Iraq and ready to do damage?

KAMBER: Well, I have no reason to believe it, any more than I at this point have seen any evidence of weapons of mass destruction or seen any ties between al Qaeda and Iraq and 9/11, between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. I mean, I think it's another excuse, another justification by the Bush administration to justify what they have done.

You know, let me start off by again saying, there is no doubt the world is better off today without Saddam Hussein. The question is: Did we -- were we justified in what we did? There are 10 despots out there that the world would be better off without, and I would hope we wouldn't go to war with all 10 of them. And I think that we've been lied to by this president.

HEMMER: So, your skepticism remains...

KAMBER: So, I have no reason to believe that today that terrorists are streaming in. If they are, if we can show it, then sure, we should fight them. No different than if we saw terrorists streaming into Newark, New Jersey, we should go fight it.

HEMMER: Got it. Understand your point. Cliff, where is the evidence then, based on Victor's claim?

MAY: Well, one thing that is al Qaeda has called for jihadists to come to Iraq and fight the American so-called occupation. We've also had very credible reports of terrorists, jihadists, coming from Saudi Arabia, up to 3,000 according to some reports. That may be exaggerated, but there are some through Syria and possibly through Iran.

People like Ahmed Chalabi, who I think knows something about this, he's been a dissident outside Iraq for a long time, he says that the U.N. bombing was actually planned by Saddam loyalists in conjunction with these outside jihadist terrorists who are coming in there.

Look, not that long ago, Afghanistan was controlled by a terrorist, Osama bin Laden. Iraq was controlled by a terrorist master, Saddam Hussein. We've taken these countries away from the terrorists, and they clearly want them back.

By the way, Ansar al-Islam is a terrorist group connected with al Qaeda. I don't think anyone disputes that. It operated with the blessing of Saddam Hussein in northern Iraq, near the Kurdish areas before. It is reconstituted, and we've been fighting them, I think everybody knows that. I don't think there is any doubt about that.

So, Victor doesn't want to recognize the reality...

HEMMER: Let me try and button this up...

MAY: ... which is there is a global war taking place.

HEMMER: Let me try and button this up just a little bit, though. Do you agree that this could be what some consider the last stand for Muslim extremists, Victor?

KAMBER: No, not at all. I think that throughout the Islamic world, we are going to have extremists. We're going to have people that believe that the Judeo-Christian ethic, that the powerful big American government is wrong, and that they need to die for their beliefs. And I think it is throughout. I think you've got people in Yemen, in Libya, throughout the Middle East that frankly will not accept the fall of Iraq. Iran -- I mean, name the countries. They're there, and they're not all in Iraq. It's ludicrous to even suggest it.

HEMMER: In the interest of time, I want to get to this issue in Alabama -- Judge Moore still defiant.

Cliff, where is this headed right now? Are we going to see a scenario in the middle of the night where the monument is dragged out, and we see 20 protesters dragging behind? And what a scene that would be in 2003 in Alabama.

MAY: Yes, one hopes not. I mean, I think it's an important and good debate. What are the Ten Commandments? It's one of the oldest codes of conduct in existence. From the Ten Commandments, the laws of the Judeo-Christian world have descended.

I think if Judge Moore were to say, you know, the Ten Commandments were written by Moses and a committee, no one would have any objection. The problem is that Judge Moore believes the Ten Commandments were written by God, by the creator, and given to Moses. And for some reason, that upsets people. But the creator is referenced in the Declaration of Independence, among other things.

HEMMER: So, what's the resolution then?

MAY: Well, I think this -- I don't know what resolution is. Look, I think there is no way that having the Ten Commandments as a monument establishes a religion. If so, what religion does it establish? I guess since Moses was Jewish, we've established Judaism as the state religions of Alabama, which will be very interesting to people in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

KAMBER: Now the ludicrousness of this is that Judge Moore is defying the law. He's a judge. He's an officer of the court. He's not just a citizen out there who has a right to First Amendment to proselytize whatever he thinks.

A court has ruled, and he is defying the court. He should be removed from the bench. If he wants to, as a citizen, if he wants to run for governor, he might win in Alabama with the support he has for the cause he's raising. But the bottom line is today he is an outlaw in the sense of as a judge, because he's defying court order.

HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

MAY: This is an important point, and because that Judge Moore believes that he is very much within the law and that the law -- the supreme law of the land is no particular judge. It is the Constitution -- the state constitution and the federal constitution. He's obeying that rather than a particular judge.

KAMBER: No judge has right to decide which law to enforce or not to enforce.

MAY: That's his argument.

HEMMER: We've got to go.

KAMBER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) law is there.

MAY: That's his argument. The judge who is telling him not to is violating the Constitution.

HEMMER: Thanks to both of you.

MAY: And on that ground he wants to have a fight.

HEMMER: Kamber and May in D.C. Some think we may get a resolution in Alabama by tomorrow. Thank you to both of you for coming in. We'll talk to you again.

KAMBER: Thank you.

MAY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired August 26, 2003 - 07:44   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Iraq is raising new questions about whether or not progress is being made toward securing the country of Iraq. The U.S. official in charge of getting that country back on its feet says al Qaeda is opposed to everything that reconstruction stands for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL BREMER, U.S./IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATOR: From the point of view of the al Qaeda types, this is a pretty important battlefield for them, because if we can establish the kind of Iraq that the Iraqi people dream of -- a free Iraq, an Iraq which can elect its own people, where people can choose their religion, where they can decide what kind of schools to send their kids to, they can decide what kind of jobs they want to have -- that kind of an Iraq is really a deadly threat to al Qaeda's cramped and extremist view of society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: So then, is al Qaeda streaming into Iraq?

With us to talk about that today, as well as the furor in Alabama over the Ten Commandments, is Democratic strategist Victor Kamber of The Kamber Group. Victor, good to have you back. Good morning to you.

VICTOR KAMBER, THE KAMBER GROUP: My pleasure. Good morning.

HEMMER: Former RNC spokesman Cliff May from the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy, as they're both in D.C. this morning for the Kamber and May show.

Good morning, gentlemen.

CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC SPOKESMAN: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Nice to have you here.

Victor, I thought your comments were rather interesting actually. You don't believe this argument about al Qaeda operatives streaming into Iraq and ready to do damage?

KAMBER: Well, I have no reason to believe it, any more than I at this point have seen any evidence of weapons of mass destruction or seen any ties between al Qaeda and Iraq and 9/11, between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. I mean, I think it's another excuse, another justification by the Bush administration to justify what they have done.

You know, let me start off by again saying, there is no doubt the world is better off today without Saddam Hussein. The question is: Did we -- were we justified in what we did? There are 10 despots out there that the world would be better off without, and I would hope we wouldn't go to war with all 10 of them. And I think that we've been lied to by this president.

HEMMER: So, your skepticism remains...

KAMBER: So, I have no reason to believe that today that terrorists are streaming in. If they are, if we can show it, then sure, we should fight them. No different than if we saw terrorists streaming into Newark, New Jersey, we should go fight it.

HEMMER: Got it. Understand your point. Cliff, where is the evidence then, based on Victor's claim?

MAY: Well, one thing that is al Qaeda has called for jihadists to come to Iraq and fight the American so-called occupation. We've also had very credible reports of terrorists, jihadists, coming from Saudi Arabia, up to 3,000 according to some reports. That may be exaggerated, but there are some through Syria and possibly through Iran.

People like Ahmed Chalabi, who I think knows something about this, he's been a dissident outside Iraq for a long time, he says that the U.N. bombing was actually planned by Saddam loyalists in conjunction with these outside jihadist terrorists who are coming in there.

Look, not that long ago, Afghanistan was controlled by a terrorist, Osama bin Laden. Iraq was controlled by a terrorist master, Saddam Hussein. We've taken these countries away from the terrorists, and they clearly want them back.

By the way, Ansar al-Islam is a terrorist group connected with al Qaeda. I don't think anyone disputes that. It operated with the blessing of Saddam Hussein in northern Iraq, near the Kurdish areas before. It is reconstituted, and we've been fighting them, I think everybody knows that. I don't think there is any doubt about that.

So, Victor doesn't want to recognize the reality...

HEMMER: Let me try and button this up...

MAY: ... which is there is a global war taking place.

HEMMER: Let me try and button this up just a little bit, though. Do you agree that this could be what some consider the last stand for Muslim extremists, Victor?

KAMBER: No, not at all. I think that throughout the Islamic world, we are going to have extremists. We're going to have people that believe that the Judeo-Christian ethic, that the powerful big American government is wrong, and that they need to die for their beliefs. And I think it is throughout. I think you've got people in Yemen, in Libya, throughout the Middle East that frankly will not accept the fall of Iraq. Iran -- I mean, name the countries. They're there, and they're not all in Iraq. It's ludicrous to even suggest it.

HEMMER: In the interest of time, I want to get to this issue in Alabama -- Judge Moore still defiant.

Cliff, where is this headed right now? Are we going to see a scenario in the middle of the night where the monument is dragged out, and we see 20 protesters dragging behind? And what a scene that would be in 2003 in Alabama.

MAY: Yes, one hopes not. I mean, I think it's an important and good debate. What are the Ten Commandments? It's one of the oldest codes of conduct in existence. From the Ten Commandments, the laws of the Judeo-Christian world have descended.

I think if Judge Moore were to say, you know, the Ten Commandments were written by Moses and a committee, no one would have any objection. The problem is that Judge Moore believes the Ten Commandments were written by God, by the creator, and given to Moses. And for some reason, that upsets people. But the creator is referenced in the Declaration of Independence, among other things.

HEMMER: So, what's the resolution then?

MAY: Well, I think this -- I don't know what resolution is. Look, I think there is no way that having the Ten Commandments as a monument establishes a religion. If so, what religion does it establish? I guess since Moses was Jewish, we've established Judaism as the state religions of Alabama, which will be very interesting to people in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

KAMBER: Now the ludicrousness of this is that Judge Moore is defying the law. He's a judge. He's an officer of the court. He's not just a citizen out there who has a right to First Amendment to proselytize whatever he thinks.

A court has ruled, and he is defying the court. He should be removed from the bench. If he wants to, as a citizen, if he wants to run for governor, he might win in Alabama with the support he has for the cause he's raising. But the bottom line is today he is an outlaw in the sense of as a judge, because he's defying court order.

HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

MAY: This is an important point, and because that Judge Moore believes that he is very much within the law and that the law -- the supreme law of the land is no particular judge. It is the Constitution -- the state constitution and the federal constitution. He's obeying that rather than a particular judge.

KAMBER: No judge has right to decide which law to enforce or not to enforce.

MAY: That's his argument.

HEMMER: We've got to go.

KAMBER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) law is there.

MAY: That's his argument. The judge who is telling him not to is violating the Constitution.

HEMMER: Thanks to both of you.

MAY: And on that ground he wants to have a fight.

HEMMER: Kamber and May in D.C. Some think we may get a resolution in Alabama by tomorrow. Thank you to both of you for coming in. We'll talk to you again.

KAMBER: Thank you.

MAY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.