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CNN Live At Daybreak

Interview With David J. Garrow

Aired August 28, 2003 - 06:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Today, we remember the dream. Forty years ago today, civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. made this famous speech to thousands of people gathered on the Mall in Washington. Dr. King called for equality and he inspired the nation.
For more on today's anniversary, we go live to Washington now and Skip Loescher -- good morning, Skip.

SKIP LOESCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol.

His words resonate just as much today as they did 40 years ago when Dr. King first spoke them. "I have a dream," he says, and so do many others.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: We shall overcome.

LOESCHER (voice-over): It was a sweltering August day 40 years ago when some 250,000 people marched on Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People sort of dressed up like they were going to a church meeting.

LOESCHER: They were there to hear perhaps the most articulate civil rights leader ever, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., speak about his dream for America.

MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.: Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksand of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood.

MARTIN LUTHER KING III, SON: We need to remember that Martin Luther King, Jr. was first and foremost a minister of action. He didn't just talk that talk, he walked the walk.

LOESCHER: Over the weekend, Dr. King's son, widow and others returned to the Lincoln Memorial, to the place he delivered his "I Have A Dream" speech, calling on America to extend equality to everyone.

CORETTA SCOTT KING, WIDOW: Most of the speech we celebrate today was a cry for justice.

LOESCHER: A lot has happened in the last 40 years. Most everyone agrees that progress has been made, that more blacks are judged on the strength of their character than on the color of their skin. (END VIDEOTAPE)

LOESCHER: There's still much to be done, say African-American leaders. Too many of the poor are black, too many of those in jail are African-American and too many black children simply don't get the chance to go to a first rate school.

We're live in Washington.

I'm Skip Loescher -- Carol, back to you.

COSTELLO: Thank you, Skip.

Well, we want to talk more about Dr. King and his legacy.

Joining us is David Garrow, a professor at Emory University here in Atlanta.

He's written extensively about the civil rights leader, most notably, "Bearing the Cross: Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference."

Good morning and thanks for joining us.

DAVID J. GARROW, MLK BIOGRAPHER, "AMERICAN HISTORY" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

COSTELLO: You know, those who are older certainly remember Dr. King and his legacy. Does his legacy resonate with the younger generation in America?

GARROW: Dr. King's legacy should resonate today because even though we've eliminated racial segregation, gone a long way towards eliminating racial discrimination, much of what Dr. King talked about, especially in terms of the economic inequality, remains a clear issue even today.

COSTELLO: OK, you said it should resonate, but does it?

GARROW: The turnout at last Saturday's commemoration march was certainly underwhelming. And that really does raise the question of whether the history of 1963 is all that live to younger people today, unfortunately.

COSTELLO: Yes, so what's the reason for that? Is it because young blacks have moved on to other problems in modern America? Or is it because the older generation isn't teaching the right things about Dr. Martin Luther King to the young?

GARROW: With Dr. King, I think the question of his impact and his legacy may seem a little distant, a little ethereal to younger people, especially if it's only the dream label or dream concept that's being put before them. But so much political and civic energy in black America that 40 years ago was channeled into civil rights groups and the civil rights movement, today that energy can go right into electoral politics, running for office, working for city, county, state governments. And especially here in the South 40 years ago, there weren't many black people who were able to run for elective office. All that energy then was going into civil rights groups.

COSTELLO: And a lot of them are in office today.

GARROW: Exactly.

COSTELLO: If Dr. Martin Luther King were alive today, what would he be doing?

GARROW: Dr. King, if he were alive today, probably would simply be a minister, a pastor. His initial intent was, indeed, just to be a preacher. He didn't have any egotistical desire or need to be a public figure or celebrity. He got drafted or really dragged into it, initially in Montgomery.

COSTELLO: So it was just that time in history? He was born at precisely the right time. His message was heard at precisely the right time?

GARROW: And he was very young, both when he started and in 1963, too.

COSTELLO: Having said that, is there a Dr. Martin Luther King type today in the African-American community? And is one necessary?

GARROW: My answer to both questions would be no. Perhaps 15 or 20 years ago, Reverend Jesse Jackson fulfilled something of the Dr. King role. But as the number of black elected officials in the country has gone up, up, up, we've seen more and more energy move into capital P politics and the role of civil rights activists, civil rights organizations, has almost inescapably receded from what they had in the 1960s.

COSTELLO: Well, thank you for joining us this morning.

We appreciate it.

Very interesting.

David Garrow joining us this morning.

GARROW: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 28, 2003 - 06:21   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Today, we remember the dream. Forty years ago today, civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. made this famous speech to thousands of people gathered on the Mall in Washington. Dr. King called for equality and he inspired the nation.
For more on today's anniversary, we go live to Washington now and Skip Loescher -- good morning, Skip.

SKIP LOESCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol.

His words resonate just as much today as they did 40 years ago when Dr. King first spoke them. "I have a dream," he says, and so do many others.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: We shall overcome.

LOESCHER (voice-over): It was a sweltering August day 40 years ago when some 250,000 people marched on Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People sort of dressed up like they were going to a church meeting.

LOESCHER: They were there to hear perhaps the most articulate civil rights leader ever, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., speak about his dream for America.

MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.: Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksand of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood.

MARTIN LUTHER KING III, SON: We need to remember that Martin Luther King, Jr. was first and foremost a minister of action. He didn't just talk that talk, he walked the walk.

LOESCHER: Over the weekend, Dr. King's son, widow and others returned to the Lincoln Memorial, to the place he delivered his "I Have A Dream" speech, calling on America to extend equality to everyone.

CORETTA SCOTT KING, WIDOW: Most of the speech we celebrate today was a cry for justice.

LOESCHER: A lot has happened in the last 40 years. Most everyone agrees that progress has been made, that more blacks are judged on the strength of their character than on the color of their skin. (END VIDEOTAPE)

LOESCHER: There's still much to be done, say African-American leaders. Too many of the poor are black, too many of those in jail are African-American and too many black children simply don't get the chance to go to a first rate school.

We're live in Washington.

I'm Skip Loescher -- Carol, back to you.

COSTELLO: Thank you, Skip.

Well, we want to talk more about Dr. King and his legacy.

Joining us is David Garrow, a professor at Emory University here in Atlanta.

He's written extensively about the civil rights leader, most notably, "Bearing the Cross: Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference."

Good morning and thanks for joining us.

DAVID J. GARROW, MLK BIOGRAPHER, "AMERICAN HISTORY" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

COSTELLO: You know, those who are older certainly remember Dr. King and his legacy. Does his legacy resonate with the younger generation in America?

GARROW: Dr. King's legacy should resonate today because even though we've eliminated racial segregation, gone a long way towards eliminating racial discrimination, much of what Dr. King talked about, especially in terms of the economic inequality, remains a clear issue even today.

COSTELLO: OK, you said it should resonate, but does it?

GARROW: The turnout at last Saturday's commemoration march was certainly underwhelming. And that really does raise the question of whether the history of 1963 is all that live to younger people today, unfortunately.

COSTELLO: Yes, so what's the reason for that? Is it because young blacks have moved on to other problems in modern America? Or is it because the older generation isn't teaching the right things about Dr. Martin Luther King to the young?

GARROW: With Dr. King, I think the question of his impact and his legacy may seem a little distant, a little ethereal to younger people, especially if it's only the dream label or dream concept that's being put before them. But so much political and civic energy in black America that 40 years ago was channeled into civil rights groups and the civil rights movement, today that energy can go right into electoral politics, running for office, working for city, county, state governments. And especially here in the South 40 years ago, there weren't many black people who were able to run for elective office. All that energy then was going into civil rights groups.

COSTELLO: And a lot of them are in office today.

GARROW: Exactly.

COSTELLO: If Dr. Martin Luther King were alive today, what would he be doing?

GARROW: Dr. King, if he were alive today, probably would simply be a minister, a pastor. His initial intent was, indeed, just to be a preacher. He didn't have any egotistical desire or need to be a public figure or celebrity. He got drafted or really dragged into it, initially in Montgomery.

COSTELLO: So it was just that time in history? He was born at precisely the right time. His message was heard at precisely the right time?

GARROW: And he was very young, both when he started and in 1963, too.

COSTELLO: Having said that, is there a Dr. Martin Luther King type today in the African-American community? And is one necessary?

GARROW: My answer to both questions would be no. Perhaps 15 or 20 years ago, Reverend Jesse Jackson fulfilled something of the Dr. King role. But as the number of black elected officials in the country has gone up, up, up, we've seen more and more energy move into capital P politics and the role of civil rights activists, civil rights organizations, has almost inescapably receded from what they had in the 1960s.

COSTELLO: Well, thank you for joining us this morning.

We appreciate it.

Very interesting.

David Garrow joining us this morning.

GARROW: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com