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American Morning

Legal Moves Continue in Ten Commandments Debate; Interview With Herb Titus

Aired August 28, 2003 - 07:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In Alabama, the protesters are unmoved, even though the Ten Commandments monument they're trying to defend has been moved out of sight. The man who had the monument installed, suspended Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, says he plans to take his fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
CNN's Brian Cabell joins us live from Montgomery this morning.

Brian -- good morning.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Well, it is the day after here in Montgomery, and the question is: What happens next? Will this Ten Commandments movement continue here?

I can tell you that overnight we had about, oh, a couple of dozen people sleeping in sleeping bags. We still have some in sleeping bags. We have a prayer meeting going on behind us.

But I can also tell you that some of the satellite trucks have left. The news coverage will decline here in the days ahead, because, in a very real sense for the news people here, at least part of this story has ended.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL (voice-over): Symbolically, the move of the monument was huge, but practically speaking, it wasn't much at all. A handful of men with a pallet jack needed only an hour to remove the controversial monument from the rotunda.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, God, don't abandon us, God.

CABELL: A defeat perhaps for the protesters, who had gathered outside the courthouse for the last week, but now many of them say this is a political issue. They want the president to take a stand.

RANDELL TERRY, SOCIETY FOR TRUTH & JUSTICE: You know what? President Bush is a man of conviction, and my prayer is that he won't let his handlers make this decision. He'll let his conscious make the decision.

CABELL: The monument's cause, led by Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore, has drawn protesters from all across the nation. His contention, and theirs, is that the Ten Commandments form the foundation of American law, and therefore belong in a courthouse. Not so, say the critics.

RICHARD COHEN, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: We try to keep government's hands off religion in order to keep religion safe in this country. Religion in America flourishes not because the government is involved, but because it's uninvolved. And that's the way it should be.

CABELL: For now, many of the protesters remain, and rallies are planned in the days ahead. And the monument, a centerpiece for so long, now sits in a back room at that judicial building out of the public eye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Protest leaders will try to rally support here in the days ahead. In fact, there is a rally scheduled for this very location this afternoon, noon time here in Montgomery. James Dobson, a noted evangelist, will be speaking, along with Chief Justice Roy Moore. They are both scheduled to appear.

We'll also have some rallies this weekend, at least that's what we are told. The question, though, Soledad, is: Will the numbers remain here? Will people continue to come here? Will people stay here?

O'BRIEN: We will wait and see. All right, Brian Cabell, thanks for that report.

More on the controversy now and what might happen next. Let's turn to Herb Titus. He is Justice Roy Moore's attorney, and he joins us from Virginia Beach, Virginia, this morning.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for joining us.

HERB TITUS, ATTORNEY FOR JUSTICE ROY MOORE: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Judge Moore, did he watch the removal of the monument? What was his reaction?

TITUS: I don't know if he was there, Soledad. I have not talked with him with regard to that move, so I don't know, really.

O'BRIEN: He released a statement, a written statement, and he said: "It is a sad day for our country when the moral foundation of our law and the acknowledgment of God has to be hidden from public view to appease a federal judge."

Is there any sort of small victory here in that the monument wasn't removed wholly from the building but was put into a back room, do you think?

TITUS: Well, that was in the court's order that it could be moved within the building, as long as it was removed to a non-public place. So, the judge had anticipated that such a move would be appropriate, especially since all appeals have not taken place. After all, this monument, if the United States Supreme Court agrees with us, will be moved back.

O'BRIEN: So, in the short term, will it stay, then, you're saying, in the building until your comments before -- or your arguments before the Supreme Court take place?

TITUS: Well, I don't know for sure if it will stay in the building, but certainly that would be the appropriate thing to do, since that's consistent with the trial judge's order.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the status of Judge Moore. He was suspended, at least temporarily. He's got 30 days, I think, to answer these six ethics violations that he has been charged with. Give me a sense of what his plan is and what your plan is, as his attorney, moving forward, and how he's doing in regard to those charges.

TITUS: Well, Soledad, as you know, Associate Justice -- former Associate Alabama Supreme Court Justice Terry Butts (ph) is handling that matter for Chief Justice Moore. Under state law, when a complaint is filed by the Judiciary Inquiry Commission before the Court of the Judiciary, he's automatically disqualified from acting as a judge. So, Associate Justice -- former Associate Justice Terry Butts (ph) is handling that aspect of the case.

In the meantime, we're pressing ahead with our petition for a writ of certiorari with the United States Supreme Court. We also have pending our writ with regard to a writ of mandamus and prohibition. So, we're pressing forward in the federal court in order to vindicate Chief Justice Moore's position.

O'BRIEN: You're getting into a little legalese for me. What's a writ of certiorari, or whatever the phrase you just used?

TITUS: Well, a writ of...

O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) first.

TITUS: A writ of certiorari is a petition for review. That's the normal process by which matters such as these come before the United States Supreme Court. It's a petition to the court requesting that they take the case. They make a decision as to whether or not they will take the case. It's a matter of discretion with them.

O'BRIEN: What do you think the likelihood...

TITUS: So, you could call it a petition for review, if you'd like.

O'BRIEN: What do you think the likelihood is that the Supreme Court will, in fact, agree to hear your case?

TITUS: Well, it's hard to predict. We don't know exactly how this case will come before the Supreme Court. Recently, they have not granted petitions for review in Ten Commandments cases, but we think this is an extraordinary case. We think that the issues are very important for the nation, and we're hopeful that the Supreme Court will finally take cases of this kind and render a decision on the merits.

O'BRIEN: If indeed the Supreme Court does hear your case, when would that happen, when would you expect?

TITUS: Well, it's hard to predict. The petition for review is due in late September. Usually, there is a 30-day period in which the opposition has an opportunity to respond to the petition, and then it comes before the justices for deliberation as to whether or not they will take the case.

O'BRIEN: A new poll from CNN and "USA Today," and Gallup as well, 77 percent, in a nutshell, are against the federal court order to remove the monument. Do you feel that this is a strong vote from the American public, and that might actually pressure the Supreme Court into hearing your case?

TITUS: Well, the American people understand what the Constitution means better than federal judges do. Federal judges are so wrapped up in precedence that they have forgotten what the plain words of the Constitution are. The people of the United States understand that the First Amendment does not prohibit putting up a monument in a building, putting up a picture. They understand that that's not a law within the meaning of the First Amendment.

So, what you have here is common sense. Ordinary people understand that this is contrary to the Constitution, this ruling by the federal court. And I would hope that the judges on the Supreme Court would adopt that common sense view.

O'BRIEN: Herb Titus is the attorney for Judge Roy Moore. Thanks for joining us.

TITUS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.





With Herb Titus>


Aired August 28, 2003 - 07:04   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In Alabama, the protesters are unmoved, even though the Ten Commandments monument they're trying to defend has been moved out of sight. The man who had the monument installed, suspended Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, says he plans to take his fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
CNN's Brian Cabell joins us live from Montgomery this morning.

Brian -- good morning.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Well, it is the day after here in Montgomery, and the question is: What happens next? Will this Ten Commandments movement continue here?

I can tell you that overnight we had about, oh, a couple of dozen people sleeping in sleeping bags. We still have some in sleeping bags. We have a prayer meeting going on behind us.

But I can also tell you that some of the satellite trucks have left. The news coverage will decline here in the days ahead, because, in a very real sense for the news people here, at least part of this story has ended.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL (voice-over): Symbolically, the move of the monument was huge, but practically speaking, it wasn't much at all. A handful of men with a pallet jack needed only an hour to remove the controversial monument from the rotunda.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, God, don't abandon us, God.

CABELL: A defeat perhaps for the protesters, who had gathered outside the courthouse for the last week, but now many of them say this is a political issue. They want the president to take a stand.

RANDELL TERRY, SOCIETY FOR TRUTH & JUSTICE: You know what? President Bush is a man of conviction, and my prayer is that he won't let his handlers make this decision. He'll let his conscious make the decision.

CABELL: The monument's cause, led by Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore, has drawn protesters from all across the nation. His contention, and theirs, is that the Ten Commandments form the foundation of American law, and therefore belong in a courthouse. Not so, say the critics.

RICHARD COHEN, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: We try to keep government's hands off religion in order to keep religion safe in this country. Religion in America flourishes not because the government is involved, but because it's uninvolved. And that's the way it should be.

CABELL: For now, many of the protesters remain, and rallies are planned in the days ahead. And the monument, a centerpiece for so long, now sits in a back room at that judicial building out of the public eye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Protest leaders will try to rally support here in the days ahead. In fact, there is a rally scheduled for this very location this afternoon, noon time here in Montgomery. James Dobson, a noted evangelist, will be speaking, along with Chief Justice Roy Moore. They are both scheduled to appear.

We'll also have some rallies this weekend, at least that's what we are told. The question, though, Soledad, is: Will the numbers remain here? Will people continue to come here? Will people stay here?

O'BRIEN: We will wait and see. All right, Brian Cabell, thanks for that report.

More on the controversy now and what might happen next. Let's turn to Herb Titus. He is Justice Roy Moore's attorney, and he joins us from Virginia Beach, Virginia, this morning.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for joining us.

HERB TITUS, ATTORNEY FOR JUSTICE ROY MOORE: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Judge Moore, did he watch the removal of the monument? What was his reaction?

TITUS: I don't know if he was there, Soledad. I have not talked with him with regard to that move, so I don't know, really.

O'BRIEN: He released a statement, a written statement, and he said: "It is a sad day for our country when the moral foundation of our law and the acknowledgment of God has to be hidden from public view to appease a federal judge."

Is there any sort of small victory here in that the monument wasn't removed wholly from the building but was put into a back room, do you think?

TITUS: Well, that was in the court's order that it could be moved within the building, as long as it was removed to a non-public place. So, the judge had anticipated that such a move would be appropriate, especially since all appeals have not taken place. After all, this monument, if the United States Supreme Court agrees with us, will be moved back.

O'BRIEN: So, in the short term, will it stay, then, you're saying, in the building until your comments before -- or your arguments before the Supreme Court take place?

TITUS: Well, I don't know for sure if it will stay in the building, but certainly that would be the appropriate thing to do, since that's consistent with the trial judge's order.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the status of Judge Moore. He was suspended, at least temporarily. He's got 30 days, I think, to answer these six ethics violations that he has been charged with. Give me a sense of what his plan is and what your plan is, as his attorney, moving forward, and how he's doing in regard to those charges.

TITUS: Well, Soledad, as you know, Associate Justice -- former Associate Alabama Supreme Court Justice Terry Butts (ph) is handling that matter for Chief Justice Moore. Under state law, when a complaint is filed by the Judiciary Inquiry Commission before the Court of the Judiciary, he's automatically disqualified from acting as a judge. So, Associate Justice -- former Associate Justice Terry Butts (ph) is handling that aspect of the case.

In the meantime, we're pressing ahead with our petition for a writ of certiorari with the United States Supreme Court. We also have pending our writ with regard to a writ of mandamus and prohibition. So, we're pressing forward in the federal court in order to vindicate Chief Justice Moore's position.

O'BRIEN: You're getting into a little legalese for me. What's a writ of certiorari, or whatever the phrase you just used?

TITUS: Well, a writ of...

O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) first.

TITUS: A writ of certiorari is a petition for review. That's the normal process by which matters such as these come before the United States Supreme Court. It's a petition to the court requesting that they take the case. They make a decision as to whether or not they will take the case. It's a matter of discretion with them.

O'BRIEN: What do you think the likelihood...

TITUS: So, you could call it a petition for review, if you'd like.

O'BRIEN: What do you think the likelihood is that the Supreme Court will, in fact, agree to hear your case?

TITUS: Well, it's hard to predict. We don't know exactly how this case will come before the Supreme Court. Recently, they have not granted petitions for review in Ten Commandments cases, but we think this is an extraordinary case. We think that the issues are very important for the nation, and we're hopeful that the Supreme Court will finally take cases of this kind and render a decision on the merits.

O'BRIEN: If indeed the Supreme Court does hear your case, when would that happen, when would you expect?

TITUS: Well, it's hard to predict. The petition for review is due in late September. Usually, there is a 30-day period in which the opposition has an opportunity to respond to the petition, and then it comes before the justices for deliberation as to whether or not they will take the case.

O'BRIEN: A new poll from CNN and "USA Today," and Gallup as well, 77 percent, in a nutshell, are against the federal court order to remove the monument. Do you feel that this is a strong vote from the American public, and that might actually pressure the Supreme Court into hearing your case?

TITUS: Well, the American people understand what the Constitution means better than federal judges do. Federal judges are so wrapped up in precedence that they have forgotten what the plain words of the Constitution are. The people of the United States understand that the First Amendment does not prohibit putting up a monument in a building, putting up a picture. They understand that that's not a law within the meaning of the First Amendment.

So, what you have here is common sense. Ordinary people understand that this is contrary to the Constitution, this ruling by the federal court. And I would hope that the judges on the Supreme Court would adopt that common sense view.

O'BRIEN: Herb Titus is the attorney for Judge Roy Moore. Thanks for joining us.

TITUS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.





With Herb Titus>