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CNN Live Sunday
Legal Roundtable: Ten Commandments Monument, Overturning Death Sentences
Aired September 07, 2003 - 10:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, ANCHOR: He took a stand on the Ten Commandments and faced retribution by the courts. At this hour, suspended Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore will likely ask Christians to support his cause.
He is speaking today at the Church of the Apostles here in Atlanta, where Moore is also attending service, obviously.
Moore was suspended after defying a federal order to move a Ten Commandments monument from Alabama's judicial building. The monument became a symbol of the fight over separation of church and state.
And Moore spoke yesterday in Atlanta at the Promise Keepers convention and called on Christians to, quote, "take a stand on the issue."
Last week a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit seeking to return the Ten Commandments monument to public view.
Moore calls the commandments the foundation of American law. We are going to take a look at this case and others this morning in our legal roundtable.
Criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub now joins us from Miami.
Jayne, good morning. Thanks for being here.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning.
CALLEBS: And CNN contributor and trial attorney Michael Smerconish is in Philadelphia.
Michael, always a pleasure. Thanks for being here.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Nice to see you.
CALLEBS: Mike, let me start with you first. The former chief justice -- I guess he's suspended, still the chief justice, won't let this one go. Your thoughts on this? He has been turned down at every turn that he goes to and virtually everyone has told him, this is a fight he's not going to win.
SMERCONISH: I have a lot of tolerance typically for these cases, and you see a lot of them, those that blend a little bit of government and religion. But this one really crosses the line. I mean, this is a guy, and you just saw that film footage who, after hours, you know, he's in his own T-shirt. He's got a pretty good physique, by the way. But to bring in that two-ton tablet and to put it into the rotunda, what if I'm a person who does not believe that God handed Moses the Ten Commandments? I'm going to feel awfully uncomfortable walking into that courthouse. And that's what this case is about. He's wrong and really should back off at this juncture.
CALLEBS: Well, Jayne, Judge Moore scheduled to speak this morning. What could he say that we haven't heard to try and sway people that he is right in what he's trying to do?
WEINTRAUB: Remember, look at the audience that he selected? I mean, all he's doing is preaching from the pulpit. And I mean that he needs to -- he says what he is going to do is continue his cause.
Well, he's a suspended chief justice. And the message that needs to be delivered here is nobody is above the law. He refused to obey a court order. What does that tell you? It tells me, from where he is today and where he's been going, that he's doing nothing but running for office. I mean, this is not someone who is conducting himself as a judicious member of our community.
CALLEBS: Well, Jayne, and also what about the state of Alabama, as well? The attorney there, the governor, they both acted quickly and decisively in this.
WEINTRAUB: Well, Attorney General Pryor, you know, has said that personally he disagrees with the federal court ruling. However, he and the other justices on the court said that they would follow the rulings of the court. Which, of course, is what should happen.
CALLEBS: OK. We'll move on. That one has gotten a great deal of attention and doesn't look like it's going to go anywhere in the near future.
Let's talk about the U.S. Supreme Court. They're holding an unusual session, Michael. They're going to take a look at the so- called soft money. This is really important, if the justices are going to come in and say, we want to hear this. So not only do they want to hear arguments, instead of the one hour usually reserved for Supreme Court arguments, they're going to listen to...
SMERCONISH: Four.
CALLEBS: Exactly, four hours. I mean, what do you make of this?
SMERCONISH: It is remarkable. And I'll tell you how I feel about these sort of things. The campaign finance regulations remind me of the IRS code. I wish we just had a nice simplistic flat tax without any loopholes.
CALLEBS: Good luck.
SMERCONISH: Right. But this is the same way, because no matter how you try and regulate campaign spending, campaign financing, there will always be a loophole.
The only answer, as far as I'm concerned is to let it all happen. Anybody can give any amount they want, but with total disclosure. And until we see that, this is going to be a piecemeal solution. It will never fix the problem.
CALLEBS: Jayne, let's talk more about what the actual soft money is. Really it's groups like the NRA that are allowed to donate to various candidates, and they say it's important to them to get their message across where perhaps it wouldn't be brought out.
SMERCONISH: But soft money is just another loophole. I mean, people can't contribute zillions of dollars to one candidate. We want to clip corruption. We don't want big money to be able to just buy the election.
Soft money being able to just give it to -- you know, the corporations being able to give it to the party is just a way to funnel it. That's why it's the loophole. We need to clog this loophole, and it's contrary to democracy to just let these big businesses or labor unions or the corporations come in with a particular agenda like the NRA and be able to buy an election. That's what this is all about. I mean, not since the Nixon tape tapes have had we had such a tension on one case.
CALLEBS: Do you think the justices are going to be able to make sense out of all this?
WEINTRAUB: I think they are. They're going to try and plug these loopholes as best they can. And I think that we need to look at alternatives. I mean, maybe public financing, maybe tax credits of some sort from the government to TV ads of a particular party, and then equalizing it is the answer. I don't know.
CALLEBS: Yes. Right now a bunch of attorneys for lobbyists are sharpening their pencils saying, "Let's see how can I attack this one?"
Let's move on. About 100 inmates across the country in several states received a reprieve because judges issued the death penalty sentence, not juries.
Michael, what do you make of this?
SMERCONISH: If you had said to me there's a case in the news, and it involves a federal appellate court and what they're doing is overturning this number of death sentences because they say it was a judge imposed and not a jury, which of the circuits do you think it would be?
I can tell you, I would have had no difficulty saying, "Well, it's that ninth circuit on the Left Coast, because it's a goofy court. It's the same court that believed "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was going to cause all sorts of problems. This is going to get overturned by the United States Supreme Court, I think. CALLEBS: I can see Jayne making faces out there. And as a defense attorney, I imagine you have a much different take on all this.
WEINTRAUB: I do. And I was very happy to see it.
Remember, the issue here is very narrow. The issue, by the way, for people watching, isn't that all of these death sentence -- these dangerous people that the public perceives is going to walk out the doors. What it means that that the sentences of death will be commuted to life unless the prosecutors come in and can put a death jury together, in other words a jury impaneled to hear their case again and recommend if it should be a death sentence or not.
CALLEBS: Well, Michael, quickly, is that fair?
SMERCONISH: No, I don't think it's fair. I think what's fair is that there were good reasons for judges to make determinations in these cases. Not the least...
WEINTRAUB: Like soapboxes in elections, Michael. They run for election.
SMERCONISH: Jayne, you can always pick out one aberrant set of facts. I mean, the usual set of circumstances is somebody had a whole host of priors and automatically it made it a capital offense. That's what we're talking about here.
WEINTRAUB: We're talking about the judges that automatically give the death penalty as a sentence rather than a jury who weighs the mitigating and the aggravating, maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't be applied in this particular case.
No murder case is a nice case, Michael. Every murder case is a tragedy for different people. It's horrible.
SMERCONISH: Particularly the defendants of the crime, yes, particularly the defendants of the crime. Not these miscreants who are on Death Row.
CALLEBS: Yes, now you have to relive in all the appeals processes.
Michael Smerconish, thanks very much for joining us from Philadelphia.
SMERCONISH: Thank you.
CALLEBS: Jayne, always a pleasure. Thanks for joining us from Miami.
WEINTRAUB: Thank you.
CALLEBS: We hit a nerve on the last one I'm sure. We'll revisit this one somewhere down the road. Thanks very much. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Death Sentences>
Aired September 7, 2003 - 10:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, ANCHOR: He took a stand on the Ten Commandments and faced retribution by the courts. At this hour, suspended Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore will likely ask Christians to support his cause.
He is speaking today at the Church of the Apostles here in Atlanta, where Moore is also attending service, obviously.
Moore was suspended after defying a federal order to move a Ten Commandments monument from Alabama's judicial building. The monument became a symbol of the fight over separation of church and state.
And Moore spoke yesterday in Atlanta at the Promise Keepers convention and called on Christians to, quote, "take a stand on the issue."
Last week a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit seeking to return the Ten Commandments monument to public view.
Moore calls the commandments the foundation of American law. We are going to take a look at this case and others this morning in our legal roundtable.
Criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub now joins us from Miami.
Jayne, good morning. Thanks for being here.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning.
CALLEBS: And CNN contributor and trial attorney Michael Smerconish is in Philadelphia.
Michael, always a pleasure. Thanks for being here.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Nice to see you.
CALLEBS: Mike, let me start with you first. The former chief justice -- I guess he's suspended, still the chief justice, won't let this one go. Your thoughts on this? He has been turned down at every turn that he goes to and virtually everyone has told him, this is a fight he's not going to win.
SMERCONISH: I have a lot of tolerance typically for these cases, and you see a lot of them, those that blend a little bit of government and religion. But this one really crosses the line. I mean, this is a guy, and you just saw that film footage who, after hours, you know, he's in his own T-shirt. He's got a pretty good physique, by the way. But to bring in that two-ton tablet and to put it into the rotunda, what if I'm a person who does not believe that God handed Moses the Ten Commandments? I'm going to feel awfully uncomfortable walking into that courthouse. And that's what this case is about. He's wrong and really should back off at this juncture.
CALLEBS: Well, Jayne, Judge Moore scheduled to speak this morning. What could he say that we haven't heard to try and sway people that he is right in what he's trying to do?
WEINTRAUB: Remember, look at the audience that he selected? I mean, all he's doing is preaching from the pulpit. And I mean that he needs to -- he says what he is going to do is continue his cause.
Well, he's a suspended chief justice. And the message that needs to be delivered here is nobody is above the law. He refused to obey a court order. What does that tell you? It tells me, from where he is today and where he's been going, that he's doing nothing but running for office. I mean, this is not someone who is conducting himself as a judicious member of our community.
CALLEBS: Well, Jayne, and also what about the state of Alabama, as well? The attorney there, the governor, they both acted quickly and decisively in this.
WEINTRAUB: Well, Attorney General Pryor, you know, has said that personally he disagrees with the federal court ruling. However, he and the other justices on the court said that they would follow the rulings of the court. Which, of course, is what should happen.
CALLEBS: OK. We'll move on. That one has gotten a great deal of attention and doesn't look like it's going to go anywhere in the near future.
Let's talk about the U.S. Supreme Court. They're holding an unusual session, Michael. They're going to take a look at the so- called soft money. This is really important, if the justices are going to come in and say, we want to hear this. So not only do they want to hear arguments, instead of the one hour usually reserved for Supreme Court arguments, they're going to listen to...
SMERCONISH: Four.
CALLEBS: Exactly, four hours. I mean, what do you make of this?
SMERCONISH: It is remarkable. And I'll tell you how I feel about these sort of things. The campaign finance regulations remind me of the IRS code. I wish we just had a nice simplistic flat tax without any loopholes.
CALLEBS: Good luck.
SMERCONISH: Right. But this is the same way, because no matter how you try and regulate campaign spending, campaign financing, there will always be a loophole.
The only answer, as far as I'm concerned is to let it all happen. Anybody can give any amount they want, but with total disclosure. And until we see that, this is going to be a piecemeal solution. It will never fix the problem.
CALLEBS: Jayne, let's talk more about what the actual soft money is. Really it's groups like the NRA that are allowed to donate to various candidates, and they say it's important to them to get their message across where perhaps it wouldn't be brought out.
SMERCONISH: But soft money is just another loophole. I mean, people can't contribute zillions of dollars to one candidate. We want to clip corruption. We don't want big money to be able to just buy the election.
Soft money being able to just give it to -- you know, the corporations being able to give it to the party is just a way to funnel it. That's why it's the loophole. We need to clog this loophole, and it's contrary to democracy to just let these big businesses or labor unions or the corporations come in with a particular agenda like the NRA and be able to buy an election. That's what this is all about. I mean, not since the Nixon tape tapes have had we had such a tension on one case.
CALLEBS: Do you think the justices are going to be able to make sense out of all this?
WEINTRAUB: I think they are. They're going to try and plug these loopholes as best they can. And I think that we need to look at alternatives. I mean, maybe public financing, maybe tax credits of some sort from the government to TV ads of a particular party, and then equalizing it is the answer. I don't know.
CALLEBS: Yes. Right now a bunch of attorneys for lobbyists are sharpening their pencils saying, "Let's see how can I attack this one?"
Let's move on. About 100 inmates across the country in several states received a reprieve because judges issued the death penalty sentence, not juries.
Michael, what do you make of this?
SMERCONISH: If you had said to me there's a case in the news, and it involves a federal appellate court and what they're doing is overturning this number of death sentences because they say it was a judge imposed and not a jury, which of the circuits do you think it would be?
I can tell you, I would have had no difficulty saying, "Well, it's that ninth circuit on the Left Coast, because it's a goofy court. It's the same court that believed "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was going to cause all sorts of problems. This is going to get overturned by the United States Supreme Court, I think. CALLEBS: I can see Jayne making faces out there. And as a defense attorney, I imagine you have a much different take on all this.
WEINTRAUB: I do. And I was very happy to see it.
Remember, the issue here is very narrow. The issue, by the way, for people watching, isn't that all of these death sentence -- these dangerous people that the public perceives is going to walk out the doors. What it means that that the sentences of death will be commuted to life unless the prosecutors come in and can put a death jury together, in other words a jury impaneled to hear their case again and recommend if it should be a death sentence or not.
CALLEBS: Well, Michael, quickly, is that fair?
SMERCONISH: No, I don't think it's fair. I think what's fair is that there were good reasons for judges to make determinations in these cases. Not the least...
WEINTRAUB: Like soapboxes in elections, Michael. They run for election.
SMERCONISH: Jayne, you can always pick out one aberrant set of facts. I mean, the usual set of circumstances is somebody had a whole host of priors and automatically it made it a capital offense. That's what we're talking about here.
WEINTRAUB: We're talking about the judges that automatically give the death penalty as a sentence rather than a jury who weighs the mitigating and the aggravating, maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't be applied in this particular case.
No murder case is a nice case, Michael. Every murder case is a tragedy for different people. It's horrible.
SMERCONISH: Particularly the defendants of the crime, yes, particularly the defendants of the crime. Not these miscreants who are on Death Row.
CALLEBS: Yes, now you have to relive in all the appeals processes.
Michael Smerconish, thanks very much for joining us from Philadelphia.
SMERCONISH: Thank you.
CALLEBS: Jayne, always a pleasure. Thanks for joining us from Miami.
WEINTRAUB: Thank you.
CALLEBS: We hit a nerve on the last one I'm sure. We'll revisit this one somewhere down the road. Thanks very much. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Death Sentences>
