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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Reaction to Bush's Address; Is There New Evidence in Skakel Case?; Shriver Campaigns for Schwarzenegger

Aired September 08, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're standing by for new developments in that bizarre case that's mystified police in Pennsylvania and captivated the attention of a lot of people around the country.
It's the case of that pizza delivery man who died when a homemade bomb strapped around his neck detonated. For the first time, police now say they've ruled out one earlier theory.

Also, reaction to the president's address to the nation is pouring in from around the world. Will it make a difference in the war against terror?

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Four months later, a much more somber President Bush concedes the war in Iraq is far from over.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This undertaking is difficult and costly.

BLITZER: How many billions will it take? Are you ready to pay the bill?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Protection's not free, you know. Freedom is not free.

BLITZER: The war on terror...

BUSH: Nearly two-thirds of al Qaeda's known leaders have been captured or killed.

BLITZER: So, who's left to worry about?

The Saudis are finally cracking down but are they going far enough? We'll take a look inside the kingdom.

A Kennedy cousin liked to Kobe Bryant's cousin, is there new evidence in a 28-year-old murder?

And, another Kennedy crosses party lines in the California campaign.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, live from the nation's capital with correspondents from around the world. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts now.

BLITZER: It's Monday, September 08, 2003. Hello from Washington, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting.

New twists and turns in the bizarre death of a pizza delivery man in Erie, Pennsylvania, authorities are now saying the victim did not act alone. It was just over a week ago that Brian Wells robbed a bank with a bomb clamped around his neck. After the heist, Wells was killed when the bomb went off.

Today, authorities are revealing new details about their investigation and they've released sketches of some people they'd like to talk to.

CNN's Mike Brooks is joining us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta to shed some more light on this new information -- Mike.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Wolf.

The FBI today released significant information about a note that apparently was given to Brian Wells with instructions on what to do after he robbed the bank.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKS (voice-over): The FBI now thinks there was someone else behind the Erie bank robbery that pizza delivery man Brian Wells did not act alone.

BOB RUDGE, FBI: The evidence that we've gathered thus far certainly indicates that is the least likely scenario and we are to the point where we have discounted that as a possibility.

BROOKS: Immediately after the bank robbery, Wells pulled into the back of this McDonald's only half a block away, this from a 911 call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's sitting in the parking lot of McDonald's on Upper Peach (ph) by Clementown (ph) Plaza. I'm watching him out my rear view mirror right now.

BROOKS: The FBI said Wells was told to stop at the drive-through sign.

RUDGE: Mr. Wells was provided instruction to go to that sign to receive additional information and direction relative to the robbery.

BROOKS: They said Wells was told to drive to a wooded area off a nearby interstate.

RUDGE: He was to park his vehicle on the side of the road and enter into the wooded area right directly across from the traffic light indicator sign. BROOKS: This is an FBI sketch of a man who was seen "running feverishly out of those woods and across a busy road a short time later."

RUDGE: And he, according to the witness, was actually maneuvering himself between cars and placing his hands on the trunks or hoods of various vehicles to avoid getting hit.

BROOKS: The FBI also released the sketch of a Black man seen running across the same road some distance away but investigators still do not know what relationship, if any, either man may have with the crime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKS: The FBI says they've received 416 calls to their tip lines so far. Out of that 200 leads have been generated for investigators to follow up on. They are, again, looking for the public's help. After the news conference, information was released today -- Wolf.

BLITZER: CNN's Mike Brooks with the very latest. Thanks, Mike, very much.

And reporter Renee DeCamillo with our affiliate WJET is also keeping track of these late-breaking developments in this story. She's joining us now live on the phone from Erie, Pennsylvania, Renee, thanks once again for joining us. Was there any new information about that other mysterious gun in the shape of a walking cane that we heard about so much last week?

RENEE DECAMILLO, WJET-TV CORRESPONDENT: Well, police and the FBI didn't discuss that at this news conference today. Last week they did say it was more like a homemade gun in the shape of a cane and that Brian Wells did enter that bank with.

But today was the first day the FBI said they believe Brian Wilson made it to the site of his last delivery. That was the television transmitter building down the street from the bank.

BLITZER: And so, the bottom line of all this new information the police released today, the apparent elimination of one theory that he acted alone, there must be some others involved. What does that say as far as local law enforcement? Where are they going with this investigation?

DECAMILLO: Well, they are still treating it as a death investigation and they are using all resources as they would in a homicide.

BLITZER: So, they've basically ruled our suicide is that right?

DECAMILLO: Well, they have said that out of the three scenarios that they were looking out, one being Wells was a total victim, the other that he was involved or connected to it, and the third was that Wells acted only -- acted by himself but, again, they said that there's no information so far that would support that scenario.

BLITZER: So that in other words suicide you would act by yourself unless there's some sort of death pact with others. Is that a possibility? Is that something they're looking at?

DECAMILLO: It doesn't sound like they're looking at it at this time. They're looking more that he was a victim in this or that he was involved with this robbery.

BLITZER: Renee DeCamillo from our affiliate WJET, once again for joining us thanks very much Renee.

Let's get a little bit more insight into this intriguing case and for that we're joined by the former FBI investigator Bill Daly, Bill, once again, thank you to you for joining us.

BILL DALY, FORMER FBI INVESTIGATOR: Oh, thank you Wolf.

BLITZER: In all your years of investigating have you ever seen anything like this?

DALY: No, this is quite, everyone is using the term bizarre and it certainly is, Wolf, because first of all most bank robbers if they're working alone they're not going to be strapping a live device to themselves. I mean that doesn't make any sense.

The other thing, too, here is that we have somebody who has directions, you know, in his pocket which would suggest that if he was involved in it by himself, you know, he would certainly, you know, have had a plan on what he's going to be doing afterwards and didn't need to write them down or get them from someone.

BLITZER: So, the leading suspicion right now is he was murdered?

DALY: Either murdered and/or possibly that he was some way, you know, perhaps duped into going along with this but I would also suggest, Wolf, is that if police have conducted and FBI have conducted an investigation into his home and searched for materials that might have been used to be able to prepare this device, which by the way is a fairly unique one.

It's not one that law enforcement has seen, perhaps -- I think the only case we've heard of is one that maybe took place in Colombia in South America where someone was strapped with a similar type device.

You would think that they would have found some type of forensic evidence behind which would have linked him at his home in concocting this and that appears to be not the case. So, it does start to lean more in favor of the fact that he was perhaps either just taken in solely as a victim or in some way duped into this very involved plot.

BLITZER: Now, the police releasing the sketches of these two individuals who may or may not have had anything to do with this bizarre case. Is this just an opportunity for the police to try to jog someone's memory out there, to try to find a witness, a tip that could help in this investigation?

DALY: I think so, Wolf. I think in this type of case, I mean because there's no evidence left behind. There's nothing to start to pull together a conspiracy or any known suspects or it's not part of an ongoing spree of bank robberies.

What they're looking for is a real grassroots level here to be able to have -- tell people listen if you were around these areas you may not have thought this area was connected with the robbery but now we're telling you that it may have been in some way.

Did you see these people, anyone like that? Did they get into a car? What other type of movements might they have seen beforehand really leaning on the public much like we saw at the time of the sniper investigation. We really need to jog their memories and bring the public into this. A lot of times the eyes and ears out there are the best resources for law enforcement.

BLITZER: And, just like the sniper investigation, this investigation includes local law enforcement as well as the FBI. Why is the FBI involved in this investigation?

DALY: Well, under federal statute the FDIC, which ensures commercial banks and others if it's an FDIC insured bank, the FBI will investigate that and, as a result, the bureau will be involved in bank robberies.

And, also interesting is something, Wolf, is when people think about bank robberies and they seem to have this kind of allure where you go back to thinking Bonnie and Clyde and all these bank robberies, really at the end of the day not much money is really taken from bank robberies as compared to those things that happen, you know, with white collar crime.

So, as much as they have this kind of crazy allure to us and kind of a folk lore to it is that there's really not that much money, unless people start committing many of them in a series.

BLITZER: And, one other point before I let you go, Bill, the notion of kidnapping presumably that could have been an element here. That would have brought the FBI into the case as well.

DALY: Absolutely. If somebody had been taken against their will and forced to do something that could have been. Usually that's involved where there's some type of either, you know, an extortion involved and/or ransom requested but, again, going back to why the bureau fundamentally would get involved would most likely be on the insurance part of it, being a federal crime to rob a bank.

BLITZER: Bill Daly, formerly with the FBI, thanks Bill very much for joining us.

DALY: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And, let's put that phone number up on the screen for viewers who may or may not know something about it but we specifically want to know, of course, if you think you know something about this that could help local or FBI involvement in this case here's the number. You see it on the screen, 1-866-219-2008.

Let's show the viewers once again, if we can, the sketches released by the police today. These are the sketches, the two individuals, people of interest as they're being called. We want to show our viewers once again what the police think.

These two individuals may be witnesses, may be suspects, may have nothing at all to do with this investigation but they're looking for information on these two individuals. We'll have more on this case, of course, as it develops.

They say you can't buy love but what about peace? Coming up are you sold on the president's plan for Iraq?

And we go inside Saudi Arabia, a royal crackdown on homegrown al Qaeda operatives. What finally pushed the Saudis to take action?

And later, a Kennedy cousin convicted of murder may see another trial, so how does Kobe Bryant fit into this picture? Find out on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Coming up, the father's take on his son's war with Saddam Hussein a preview of Paula Zahn's exclusive, very candid interview with the former President George Herbert Walker Bush. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Back on May 1st, President Bush declared an end to major combat in Iraq but U.S. forces have continued to pay a very heavy price. Last night, with none of the swagger of that last major speech on the war, the president grimly asked Americans to bear a growing burden, an additional $87 billion over the next year to fight the war against terror in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, this on top of the more than $60 billion already spent in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: This undertaking is difficult and costly yet worthy of our country and critical to our security.

BLITZER (voice-over): The subdued tone, the call for public patience and resolve brings immediate political fallout over U.S. actions in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president's speech was an admission of gross miscalculation on their part. The Army is stretched incredibly thin. We don't have the personnel to respond if we had other problems in the world.

BUSH: Democratic leaders saying President Bush underestimated the cost in American lives, dollars, length of commitment, from Republicans praise for leveling with Americans about the road ahead.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), BANKING CHAIRMAN: We knew that it was going to be a lot of money and it was going to take a lot of time that this was the first strong message that the president put out like that and I think he had to do it.

BLITZER: From here, the political implications in Iraq and Afghanistan are enormous.

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: I think the president has raised the stakes for himself. He has raised the stakes for his presidency so that if there are no more explosions in the next few months he, himself, will be -- his approval ratings will suffer some more.

BLITZER: Mr. Bush's poll numbers are already in serious decline. The latest CNN/TIME poll shows his approval rating at 52 percent as of last week, down from 63 percent in May right after he declared an end to major combat in Iraq.

And, contrast that to 89 percent two years ago at an extraordinary moment right after 9/11. Compare that to his predecessor's most difficult political gauntlet; September, 1998, the height of the impeachment scandal, Bill Clinton's approval rating 63 percent; December, 1998, the House votes to impeach Mr. Clinton. His approval rating climbs to 67 percent.

Now, in the midst of a reelection campaign, a president counts on stabilization in Iraq, a reduced terrorist threat, and patience from voters.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And, while the president is requesting another $87 billion to fight the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, here's what some other wars involving the United States have cost in today's dollars.

The American Revolution lasted eight years and cost the equivalent of some $2.2 billion. The U.S. spent $2.9 trillion to fight World War II. The price tag for eight years of the Vietnam War was $484.3 billion, and the first Gulf War a dozen years ago cost $76.1 billion, almost all of that coming from European, Japanese and oil rich Arab states.

For U.S. troops on the ground in Iraq, the war grinds on. Our Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Only three hours after President Bush's speech, soldiers in this unarmored open top Humvee attacked. Four flack jackets for improvised protection still draped over its side.

According to eyewitnesses an explosive device dropped on the soldiers as they drove under the bridge only two soldiers from the soft skinned vehicle injured but ending two days of no U.S. casualties.

(on camera): According to the U.S. military, their vehicle hit an improvised explosive device. The lull in casualties, however, not an indication attacks are decreasing.

At a U.S. base just west of Baghdad overnight, 14 mortar rounds were fired at it. Attacks here are so common soldiers say they expect to be shot at whenever they go out.

(voice-over): In Baghdad, the coalition's top administrator pushed his nation building agenda meeting the newly-appointed interim minister of works, emphasizing the benefits of President Bush's call for more money.

PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATOR: And it is a clear, dramatic illustration of the fact that the American people are going to finish the job we started when we liberated Iraq here some four months ago.

ROBERTSON: Feelings about President Bush's speech not matched by some Baghdad residents.

"What do you see around" says salesman Haida (ph)? "There is nothing, no security, no rebuilding. It's all lies. Bush is a liar just like Saddam."

Sparking disbelief also, President Bush's defining that the war in Iraq in terms of the war on terrorism.

"Is this terrorism" questions this lawyer? "I mean if I go and occupy the United States and the American people resisted me, will that be labeled terrorism?"

To the north of Baghdad, the hunt for anti-U.S. elements did go on, four men arrested overnight in raids around Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit. The deadly routine of high stakes cat and mouse, catch or be attacked, apparently no mirror conclusion; however, it seems now one step closer to funding for the foreseeable future.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And here is your turn to weigh in on this story. Our web question of the day is this. "Should Congress approve $87 billion for efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan?" We'll have the results later in this broadcast but you can vote right now.

Go to cnn.com/wolf and while you're there I'd love to hear directly from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

Palestinian politics, Yasser Arafat names his choice for a new prime minister but can Arafat's candidate meet U.S. demands?

And, al Qaeda top brass, who's leading the holy warriors right now?

And, a New York firefighter who died two years ago in the 9/11 tragedy, he was buried only today. Our Jason Carroll explains.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In the Middle East, the U.S.-backed road map for peace is seemingly in tatters, shredded by a recent flare up of violence and now by a Palestinian leadership crisis.

Let's go live to our State Department Correspondent Andrea Koppel -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, what a difference four months make. Back then the Bush administration warmly welcomed the man who was to be the Palestinian's first and new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, the U.S. saying that he was somebody that both the Bush administration and the Sharon government could do business with but today, now that Abbas has resigned, the Bush administration is more reserving its judgment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): The Bush administration reacted cautiously to reports that Palestinian Leader Yasser Arafat had designated Ahmed Qorei, the speaker of the Palestinian Parliament to be the new prime minister.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have to see what political authority and what security forces will be under the new prime minister, which will permit him to do his job of representing the Palestinian people but also dealing with the terror.

KOPPEL: The U.S. refusing to openly support Qorei until Arafat gives him full authority over all Palestinian security forces essential to reign in Hamas and other terrorists among the reasons cited by Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas for his sudden resignation just four months after he took office.

Indeed Qorei indicated his acceptance of the post was conditional based on an Israeli commitment to ease its military crackdown in the Palestinian territories and on winning fresh guarantees of support from the U.S., the Europeans, and President Arafat.

AHMED QOREI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATIVE SPEAKER: If not, I don't want to go (unintelligible).

KOPPEL: In recent weeks of cease-fire by Palestinian militant groups ended abruptly after a suicide bus bombing by Hamas in Jerusalem killing 22 Israelis and a series of targeted killings by Israel of alleged militant leaders. Mid East watchers say Qorei, a long time mediator in Arab-Israeli negotiations, could be a last ditch hope for the peace process. EDWARD OJEREJIAN, FMR. ASST. SECY. OF STATE: The three leading personalities in the Palestinian movement really is Arafat, Abu Mazen, and Qorei and this is really dipping into the remaining level in my eyes of a person with enough stature to make things happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Another potential complication, Israel has refused to negotiate with any prime minister handpicked or selected by Yasser Arafat and so, Wolf, the U.S.-backed road map for peace is stuck right where the last Palestinian prime minister left it, in limbo -- Wolf.

BLITZER: That's depressing to hear that, thanks very much Andrea Koppel at the State Department for that report.

Crackdown on al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, we'll look inside the royal kingdom.

And, the battle to keep terrorism at bay but it hasn't always been this way with the Saudis. Our guest will explain.

And later, he's the last in a long line to die fighting to save others during the September 11 terror attacks in New York, the story of a firefighter buried two years after the tragedy.

And, the attorney for Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel may seek another trial for his client. We'll have details on a startling new development in this 28-year-old murder case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.

Coming up, where is Osama bin Laden? We'll have some new details.

First, though, here are the latest headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: As we approach the second anniversary al Qaeda's September 11 terror attacks, President Bush says two-thirds of al Qaeda's leaders have been caught or killed. But where are the other third? Where -- what are they doing, in fact, and where's the ringleader, Osama bin Laden?

CNN's Mike Boettcher has been looking into all of these questions. He's joining us live from the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Mike, what are you hearing?

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, almost two years after the 9/11 attack, despite a $25 million price tag on his head, Osama bin Laden remains at large. But anti-terror coalition intelligence sources have told CNN, since this past spring, they are closing in on the al Qaeda leader. Intelligence sources tell CNN they have a good idea where he is hiding -- in Pakistan, just across the border from Afghanistan in the mountains of a rugged area southwest of Peshawar. He is surrounded by Pakistani clans who have vowed to protect him.

With him, say these same sources, is his No. 2, Ayman Al- Zawahiri. But knowing his approximate location is one thing. Actually getting to him is quite another.

Then, Wolf, there is another group of al Qaeda operatives, lieutenants believed hiding in Iran. They, too, will be difficult to get to -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Mike, how is he communicating with his supporters?

BOETTCHER: He is communicating by personal courier, we are told by coalition intelligence sources. Messages, for example, were passed earlier in year, in January and early February by human couriers telling his people to go ahead and launch operations. One or two of those couriers were intercepted. One of those letters was, indeed, found in Saudi Arabia. And that is how he's communicating. And that is a problem with finding him because he's staying off the airwaves.

BLITZER: Anybody have any good information why that $25 million reward, the bounty, for Osama bin Laden hasn't paid off? We know that the millions of dollars in reward for Uday and Qusay apparently paid off in Iraq. Why isn't it paying off for Osama bin Laden?

BOETTCHER: Well, these are tight-knit clans and tribes in this area where he is hiding. We are told that they have a rather sophisticated security setup in order to alert bin Laden and his people of strangers approaching. And as well, if you worked in that region, the figure, $25 million, doesn't mean a whole lot to people who live in, basically, another century, Wolf.

BLITZER: Mike Boettcher, who is always on top of the story for us. Thanks, Mike, very much.

And Mike will have a full report on al Qaeda's surviving leaders and the search for them on the premiere of "ANDERSON COOPER 360." That's this evening, 7:00 Eastern, here, of course, on CNN. Good luck to Anderson on this new and important show on CNN.

Fifteen of the September 11 hijackers were Saudi citizens. Saudi money has found its way to terror groups, as we all know. Extremist Saudi clerics have long been accused of fanning the flames of violence. But deadly bombings in Riyadh several months ago may have served as a wake-up call. The Saudis have launched a crackdown on al Qaeda and the crown prince, Abdullah, has made it very personal. But will this crackdown go far enough?

"TIME" magazine this week takes an in-depth look inside the kingdom.

Joining us now from New York, "TIME"'s senior editor, Lisa Beyer.

Lisa, thanks very much join us. What's new about the Saudi effort to deal with terrorism now?

LISA BEYER, "TIME": Well, I think what's new about it is that you can define it as a serious effort in the sense that since the May 12 bombings in Riyadh, the Saudis have made literally hundreds of arrests. They've killed scores of people. They're really gone about cracking heads and uprooting the al Qaeda cells that clearly were operating in the kingdom, certainly not just after May 12, I might add. It's noteworthy that after 9/11, although many other allies of the United States made great efforts to unsettle and discover the al Qaeda cells in their midst, it really took until the May 12 bombings in Riyadh for the Saudis to make the same effort.

BLITZER: As you know, Lisa -- as you know, very well, there are skeptics out there. They think the Saudis really aren't doing what the U.S. would like them to do. They're simply sort of rounding up the usual suspects and pretending to deal with this problem. Are they really getting to the core issues that have created some of these terrorists, like Osama bin Laden?

BEYER: Well, I think that's the area where even the advocates of Saudi Arabia find that there is room for criticism. We all know that the teachings that come out of Saudi textbooks and schools, out of the mosques and out of Saudi outreach programs all over the world contain a great deal of hatred toward infidels, non-Muslims, hatred which, in many cases, you could easily argue is incitement to violence.

The Saudis have made some efforts to address this issue. They say that they are revising their schoolbooks. The foreign minister of Saudi Arabia himself said that they discovered that 10 percent of the text was offensive and another 5 percent was atrocious. He was actually sort of -- said he was relieved at that figure, which I think is a finding that wouldn't relieve the top diplomats of many countries.

Nevertheless, the Saudis say that they are going to take this material out of their textbooks. It remains to be seen whether it will be taken out of the -- out of the schoolrooms altogether. There have been new edicts given to the imams in Saudi Arabia to preach approach tolerance and to stay away from the subject of jihad. What we are told from many accounts in Saudi Arabia today, including the account of the American ambassador in Riyadh is that the imams are for the most part following the instructions, but often they'll get to the sermon and say, Oh, and God, please don't forget to destroy the infidels.

BLITZER: I know you and your colleagues at "TIME" magazine had a chance to interview a lot of U.S. officials, including the U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia. Is the U.S. -- FBI agents, U.S. law enforcement, getting the kind of open access to the suspected terrorists that they really want?

BEYER: You know, the higher you go up in the hierarchy in the United States, the more generous you'll find officials being about the Saudis, especially if they're speaking for the record. And of course, we know that the Bush White House is very close to Saudi Arabia and has, in addition to diplomatic, very personal ties to the Saudi kingdom.

But as you get down on the lower level and you talk to the American officials who are actually doing investigative work, you find -- that's where you start to find the disaffection. You will find that American officials say that the Saudis are getting better, that they're cooperating more and more, but there are some areas where the Saudis just won't go. There are some suspects that they won't allow the Americans to talk to, they won't give the Americans information on. There are some Saudi charities that they seem to be protecting from interrogation. So there's still a lot of room for progress on this front.

BLITZER: All right. Lisa Beyer from our sister publication "TIME" magazine. An important article, the current issue of "TIME" magazine. Lisa, thanks very much for joining us.

BEYER: Thank you, Wolf.

And now to a preview of an exclusive interview with President Bush's father, the former president, George Herbert Walker Bush.

Joining us now live for this preview, our own Paula Zahn, on the set of her new show, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

Paula, this is fabulous that you had a chance to interview the former president at this moment. A lot of strong questions, I assume?

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it's a -- it is a rare opportunity because as you know, he doesn't do many interviews. And in fact, we were quite surprised how open he was when he talk about what his son is going through, and probably one of the more surprising things I think he had to say was that, in many ways, he is internalizing more of the criticism about his son as president that even he did when he served as president. And what you see in part one is a part of the interview was he talks about his son confronting Saddam Hussein and here's what he had to say when I asked him how he feels about that country now that Saddam Hussein is gone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: You told us quite pointedly in one of our last conversations what you thought of Saddam.

GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think there's any point talking dirty on this program here.

ZAHN: What do you think now that he's out of power?

BUSH: Well, I think I'm very glad he is. I think it is much better for the Iraqi people. My view is, look back in three years, you're going to have some form of democracy there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Wolf, it was interesting to hear him talk about the reverse roles of father and son and his son assuring him not to worry so much about what he reads in the newspapers. We are going to spread this out over a five-day period. He has some very interesting reflections on 9/11. But tonight, we're going to concentrate on what he said about Iraq.

BLITZER: Paula, I know you interviewed the former president on several occasions.

How has he changed, as far as your impressions, over these years?

ZAHN: I think he's very relaxed. He says he's at peace. He says he has very limited interest in issues primarily because he knows if he talks openly about them, that we'll be all over him and try to see if that reflects his son's vision for the country. But he says it is a very happy time of his life. He is spending a lot of time with his children, with his grandchildren. He's finding that very satisfying. But he did say there are periods of time when he misses the power he had when he was commander in chief. And he says some very poignant things about what it means to him to see American troops on duty in Iraq and how much respect he has for them. He talked about when he was president, that was the part of the job that he had a terrific amount of respect for, particularly coming from where he came from, as a World War II veteran, a decorated veteran.

BLITZER: Our viewers are very interested about the new show. Tell us very briefly, what's going to be the thrust of the 8:00 hour, 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN?

ZAHN: Do you want to know what we're doing tonight?

We start the show with Howard Dean, the leading Democratic contender at this juncture. You will hear our conversation with the president.

We have an exclusive interview with former chief weapons inspector, U.N. Weapons inspector, Hans Blix, who is highly critical of the process that the United States went through at the U.N. to go to war. And you might be surprised by some things he has to say about Saddam Hussein tonight. Then we have a triumphant interview with Andy Roddick, fresh from a great victory in the U.S. Open.

BLITZER: And We were all proud of him. He did a great job. Paula, we're looking forward to watching the new show every weeknight 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. We got brand new...

ZAHN: Hey, Wolf.

BLITZER: I don't know -- your cameraman show us the new set -- get a little preview of the new set.

Can we get a shot?

ZAHN: You have always been such a generous colleague that we will give you and your viewers the first peek at this brand new set. Check it out. All right. All right. That's not terrible. I don't want to get busted by my bosses. There is more of the wide view you will see this evening.

BLITZER: A fabulous set, a fabulous reporter. Paula Zahn doing a great job. And we're looking forward to the premiere tonight, "PAULA ZAHN NOW" tonight, 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN every weeknight. We just have to make sure we watch it every night.

ZAHN: As always, thanks for your support, Wolf.

BLITZER: Good luck to you.

New information, new trial, this from the attorney for Michael Skakel and the source for this information is not your usual suspect. We'll check in on the latest.

Also, in California, the recall. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: An attorney for Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel plans to push for a new trial based on what she calls newly discovered evidence. That word from a prosecution source. Skakel, as many of you remember, was convicted of murder over a year ago in the 1975 killing of Martha Moxley. "The Hartford Current" has reported that a former classmate of Skakel, Tony Bryant, has told defense attorneys that two of his friends admitted killing Moxley. That they also identified Bryant as a cousin of Los Angeles Lakers star, Kobe Bryant, who, of course, has been charged with sexual assault in an unrelated case in Colorado. What an amazing coincidence that is.

With me to talk about this new twist in the Skakel case, Paul Butler, he's a law professor at the George Washington University Law School here in Washington.

Paul, thanks very much for joining us. What a bizarre coincidence that is. First of all, let's talk about reopening that case. How difficult is the burden, how difficult would it be for Skakel's attorneys to do that?

PAUL BUTLER, LAW PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV.: It is very difficult. We have to remember that a jury found Mr. Skakel guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Courts don't like to disturb verdicts like that, even with cases with scientific DNA evidence new trials are rare. Here, with this testimonial he said, she said evidence, Mr. Skakels chances are slim.

BLITZER: But the defense attorneys still will go forward because it is the only hope they have.

BUTLER: Absolutely. An interesting tactic, they're saying the defense attorney was infective because he knew about the evidence and yet choose not to go forward. Sometimes they'll do what we call falling on the sword. They say, yes, I was infective, for that reason, my client should get a new trial. So it will be interesting to see what happens.

BLITZER: So, if you're arguing the original attorney he had new about this information but didn't act on it but should have that is sort of malpractice, isn't it?

BUTLER: Well, it doesn't quite reach the limit of malpractice. It is a strategic call. And different lawyers will disagree with whether the attorney made the right call. In sense, he didn't, Mr. Skakel was convicted. But who knows whether the new evidence would have made a difference.

BLITZER: And the difficulty would be to get the two suspects, if there are others out there, to acknowledge there was some sort of guilt. You're relying on a lot of hearsay this particular case?

BUTLER: Sure. In addition to the legal burdens. Lots of factual problems. First of all, why did Mr. Bryant sit on this evidence for over 30 years?

BLITZER: Tony Bryant, the cousin supposedly of Kobe Bryant.

BUTLER: Kobe Bryant has to be hating this. Anytime you are accused of one crime, you hate to be associated even indirectly with another crime. Another problem with this new evidence is supposedly there were three young African-American men who were running around this area. This is a neighborhood -- an area in which three young black men would have stood out, to say the least.

BLITZER: In Greenwich, Connecticut, a very affluent area.

BUTLER: None of the witnesses say they saw these men in the area.

BLITZER: It is possible they will get a retrial. But very, very unlikely. That's your bottom line?

BUTLER: You got it.

BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much, Paul Butler, George Washington University Law School, thanks very much.

BUTLER: Nice to be here.

BLITZER: In New York City, a painful 9/11 milestone. We'll bring you a family's belated farewell to a fallen hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: For New York firefighters and one family in particular, today saw a closing of a painful chapter which began on September 11, almost two years ago. CNN's Jason Carroll reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His mother said, men like her son were born firefighters. That's why Michael Ragusa's family wanted him laid to rest the way a firefighter who has fallen in the line of duty should be memorialized, with full honors.

DEE RAGUSA, MOTHER: I truly believe that Mike refused to be found because he did not want us to think of him as dead.

CARROLL: Michael was one of 343 firefighters killed during the terrorist attack. He is the last to have a funeral. For nearly two years, Michael's family hoped the medical examiner would find something to identify him and bring closure.

D. RAGUSA: I mean, I know he's gone. But you know, when you get a phone call and no one is on the other end, I just say, Michael, it's all right, come home.

CARROLL: The Ragusas knew Michael had been a bone marrow donor, in honor of his brother who survived leukemia. What they didn't know, doctors had kept a vial of his blood.

D. RAGUSA: That vial to us is Michael. We can bury him now.

VINCENT RAGUSA, FATHER: Once we put Michael in the grave, it is going to put us at ease in the sense that we'll have a place to go.

CARROLL: Michael was 29. He was buried next to his best friend, fellow firefighter Paul Molinaro (ph), who was also killed on September 11.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Arnold Schwarzenegger's wife, Maria Shriver, today starts appearing on her own in campaign events for his gubernatorial campaign. The former television correspondent's high profile comes as three major polls taken within a couple of days showed different conclusions in the California governor's recall race. One has Arnold Schwarzenegger ahead. A second shows the Democratic Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante in the lead. A third finds the two of them in a dead heat.

By the way, today is the first day to vote by absentee ballot.

Speaking of voting and polls, here is how you're weighing in on our Web question of the day. Should Congress approve $87 billion for efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? Look at this, 16 percent of you say yes; 84 percent of you say no. This is not, remember, a scientific poll.

Let's get to your e-mails. This from J: "It's amazing to me that Congress is willing to give Bush $87 billion more. What will the tab be next year? Our roads, schools, bridges, electrical grids, and of course the economy are in shambles, yet Congress wants to rebuild Iraq."

Sue writes: "I would like to know how the $87 billion is to be spent before Congress approves it. Some is going to reconstruction and some to the military. How much is going to Bechtel and Halliburton via their no-bid contracts?" This from Judy: "We need to support our president. $87 billion is an investment in our future security. It is most frustrating that people want instant answers and results in such a complex issue."

A reminder, you can always catch us here on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS weekdays, 5:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm also here every weekday at noon Eastern. Until tomorrow, thanks very much for joining us. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Skakel Case?; Shriver Campaigns for Schwarzenegger>


Aired September 8, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're standing by for new developments in that bizarre case that's mystified police in Pennsylvania and captivated the attention of a lot of people around the country.
It's the case of that pizza delivery man who died when a homemade bomb strapped around his neck detonated. For the first time, police now say they've ruled out one earlier theory.

Also, reaction to the president's address to the nation is pouring in from around the world. Will it make a difference in the war against terror?

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Four months later, a much more somber President Bush concedes the war in Iraq is far from over.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This undertaking is difficult and costly.

BLITZER: How many billions will it take? Are you ready to pay the bill?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Protection's not free, you know. Freedom is not free.

BLITZER: The war on terror...

BUSH: Nearly two-thirds of al Qaeda's known leaders have been captured or killed.

BLITZER: So, who's left to worry about?

The Saudis are finally cracking down but are they going far enough? We'll take a look inside the kingdom.

A Kennedy cousin liked to Kobe Bryant's cousin, is there new evidence in a 28-year-old murder?

And, another Kennedy crosses party lines in the California campaign.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, live from the nation's capital with correspondents from around the world. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts now.

BLITZER: It's Monday, September 08, 2003. Hello from Washington, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting.

New twists and turns in the bizarre death of a pizza delivery man in Erie, Pennsylvania, authorities are now saying the victim did not act alone. It was just over a week ago that Brian Wells robbed a bank with a bomb clamped around his neck. After the heist, Wells was killed when the bomb went off.

Today, authorities are revealing new details about their investigation and they've released sketches of some people they'd like to talk to.

CNN's Mike Brooks is joining us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta to shed some more light on this new information -- Mike.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Wolf.

The FBI today released significant information about a note that apparently was given to Brian Wells with instructions on what to do after he robbed the bank.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKS (voice-over): The FBI now thinks there was someone else behind the Erie bank robbery that pizza delivery man Brian Wells did not act alone.

BOB RUDGE, FBI: The evidence that we've gathered thus far certainly indicates that is the least likely scenario and we are to the point where we have discounted that as a possibility.

BROOKS: Immediately after the bank robbery, Wells pulled into the back of this McDonald's only half a block away, this from a 911 call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's sitting in the parking lot of McDonald's on Upper Peach (ph) by Clementown (ph) Plaza. I'm watching him out my rear view mirror right now.

BROOKS: The FBI said Wells was told to stop at the drive-through sign.

RUDGE: Mr. Wells was provided instruction to go to that sign to receive additional information and direction relative to the robbery.

BROOKS: They said Wells was told to drive to a wooded area off a nearby interstate.

RUDGE: He was to park his vehicle on the side of the road and enter into the wooded area right directly across from the traffic light indicator sign. BROOKS: This is an FBI sketch of a man who was seen "running feverishly out of those woods and across a busy road a short time later."

RUDGE: And he, according to the witness, was actually maneuvering himself between cars and placing his hands on the trunks or hoods of various vehicles to avoid getting hit.

BROOKS: The FBI also released the sketch of a Black man seen running across the same road some distance away but investigators still do not know what relationship, if any, either man may have with the crime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKS: The FBI says they've received 416 calls to their tip lines so far. Out of that 200 leads have been generated for investigators to follow up on. They are, again, looking for the public's help. After the news conference, information was released today -- Wolf.

BLITZER: CNN's Mike Brooks with the very latest. Thanks, Mike, very much.

And reporter Renee DeCamillo with our affiliate WJET is also keeping track of these late-breaking developments in this story. She's joining us now live on the phone from Erie, Pennsylvania, Renee, thanks once again for joining us. Was there any new information about that other mysterious gun in the shape of a walking cane that we heard about so much last week?

RENEE DECAMILLO, WJET-TV CORRESPONDENT: Well, police and the FBI didn't discuss that at this news conference today. Last week they did say it was more like a homemade gun in the shape of a cane and that Brian Wells did enter that bank with.

But today was the first day the FBI said they believe Brian Wilson made it to the site of his last delivery. That was the television transmitter building down the street from the bank.

BLITZER: And so, the bottom line of all this new information the police released today, the apparent elimination of one theory that he acted alone, there must be some others involved. What does that say as far as local law enforcement? Where are they going with this investigation?

DECAMILLO: Well, they are still treating it as a death investigation and they are using all resources as they would in a homicide.

BLITZER: So, they've basically ruled our suicide is that right?

DECAMILLO: Well, they have said that out of the three scenarios that they were looking out, one being Wells was a total victim, the other that he was involved or connected to it, and the third was that Wells acted only -- acted by himself but, again, they said that there's no information so far that would support that scenario.

BLITZER: So that in other words suicide you would act by yourself unless there's some sort of death pact with others. Is that a possibility? Is that something they're looking at?

DECAMILLO: It doesn't sound like they're looking at it at this time. They're looking more that he was a victim in this or that he was involved with this robbery.

BLITZER: Renee DeCamillo from our affiliate WJET, once again for joining us thanks very much Renee.

Let's get a little bit more insight into this intriguing case and for that we're joined by the former FBI investigator Bill Daly, Bill, once again, thank you to you for joining us.

BILL DALY, FORMER FBI INVESTIGATOR: Oh, thank you Wolf.

BLITZER: In all your years of investigating have you ever seen anything like this?

DALY: No, this is quite, everyone is using the term bizarre and it certainly is, Wolf, because first of all most bank robbers if they're working alone they're not going to be strapping a live device to themselves. I mean that doesn't make any sense.

The other thing, too, here is that we have somebody who has directions, you know, in his pocket which would suggest that if he was involved in it by himself, you know, he would certainly, you know, have had a plan on what he's going to be doing afterwards and didn't need to write them down or get them from someone.

BLITZER: So, the leading suspicion right now is he was murdered?

DALY: Either murdered and/or possibly that he was some way, you know, perhaps duped into going along with this but I would also suggest, Wolf, is that if police have conducted and FBI have conducted an investigation into his home and searched for materials that might have been used to be able to prepare this device, which by the way is a fairly unique one.

It's not one that law enforcement has seen, perhaps -- I think the only case we've heard of is one that maybe took place in Colombia in South America where someone was strapped with a similar type device.

You would think that they would have found some type of forensic evidence behind which would have linked him at his home in concocting this and that appears to be not the case. So, it does start to lean more in favor of the fact that he was perhaps either just taken in solely as a victim or in some way duped into this very involved plot.

BLITZER: Now, the police releasing the sketches of these two individuals who may or may not have had anything to do with this bizarre case. Is this just an opportunity for the police to try to jog someone's memory out there, to try to find a witness, a tip that could help in this investigation?

DALY: I think so, Wolf. I think in this type of case, I mean because there's no evidence left behind. There's nothing to start to pull together a conspiracy or any known suspects or it's not part of an ongoing spree of bank robberies.

What they're looking for is a real grassroots level here to be able to have -- tell people listen if you were around these areas you may not have thought this area was connected with the robbery but now we're telling you that it may have been in some way.

Did you see these people, anyone like that? Did they get into a car? What other type of movements might they have seen beforehand really leaning on the public much like we saw at the time of the sniper investigation. We really need to jog their memories and bring the public into this. A lot of times the eyes and ears out there are the best resources for law enforcement.

BLITZER: And, just like the sniper investigation, this investigation includes local law enforcement as well as the FBI. Why is the FBI involved in this investigation?

DALY: Well, under federal statute the FDIC, which ensures commercial banks and others if it's an FDIC insured bank, the FBI will investigate that and, as a result, the bureau will be involved in bank robberies.

And, also interesting is something, Wolf, is when people think about bank robberies and they seem to have this kind of allure where you go back to thinking Bonnie and Clyde and all these bank robberies, really at the end of the day not much money is really taken from bank robberies as compared to those things that happen, you know, with white collar crime.

So, as much as they have this kind of crazy allure to us and kind of a folk lore to it is that there's really not that much money, unless people start committing many of them in a series.

BLITZER: And, one other point before I let you go, Bill, the notion of kidnapping presumably that could have been an element here. That would have brought the FBI into the case as well.

DALY: Absolutely. If somebody had been taken against their will and forced to do something that could have been. Usually that's involved where there's some type of either, you know, an extortion involved and/or ransom requested but, again, going back to why the bureau fundamentally would get involved would most likely be on the insurance part of it, being a federal crime to rob a bank.

BLITZER: Bill Daly, formerly with the FBI, thanks Bill very much for joining us.

DALY: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And, let's put that phone number up on the screen for viewers who may or may not know something about it but we specifically want to know, of course, if you think you know something about this that could help local or FBI involvement in this case here's the number. You see it on the screen, 1-866-219-2008.

Let's show the viewers once again, if we can, the sketches released by the police today. These are the sketches, the two individuals, people of interest as they're being called. We want to show our viewers once again what the police think.

These two individuals may be witnesses, may be suspects, may have nothing at all to do with this investigation but they're looking for information on these two individuals. We'll have more on this case, of course, as it develops.

They say you can't buy love but what about peace? Coming up are you sold on the president's plan for Iraq?

And we go inside Saudi Arabia, a royal crackdown on homegrown al Qaeda operatives. What finally pushed the Saudis to take action?

And later, a Kennedy cousin convicted of murder may see another trial, so how does Kobe Bryant fit into this picture? Find out on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Coming up, the father's take on his son's war with Saddam Hussein a preview of Paula Zahn's exclusive, very candid interview with the former President George Herbert Walker Bush. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Back on May 1st, President Bush declared an end to major combat in Iraq but U.S. forces have continued to pay a very heavy price. Last night, with none of the swagger of that last major speech on the war, the president grimly asked Americans to bear a growing burden, an additional $87 billion over the next year to fight the war against terror in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, this on top of the more than $60 billion already spent in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: This undertaking is difficult and costly yet worthy of our country and critical to our security.

BLITZER (voice-over): The subdued tone, the call for public patience and resolve brings immediate political fallout over U.S. actions in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president's speech was an admission of gross miscalculation on their part. The Army is stretched incredibly thin. We don't have the personnel to respond if we had other problems in the world.

BUSH: Democratic leaders saying President Bush underestimated the cost in American lives, dollars, length of commitment, from Republicans praise for leveling with Americans about the road ahead.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), BANKING CHAIRMAN: We knew that it was going to be a lot of money and it was going to take a lot of time that this was the first strong message that the president put out like that and I think he had to do it.

BLITZER: From here, the political implications in Iraq and Afghanistan are enormous.

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: I think the president has raised the stakes for himself. He has raised the stakes for his presidency so that if there are no more explosions in the next few months he, himself, will be -- his approval ratings will suffer some more.

BLITZER: Mr. Bush's poll numbers are already in serious decline. The latest CNN/TIME poll shows his approval rating at 52 percent as of last week, down from 63 percent in May right after he declared an end to major combat in Iraq.

And, contrast that to 89 percent two years ago at an extraordinary moment right after 9/11. Compare that to his predecessor's most difficult political gauntlet; September, 1998, the height of the impeachment scandal, Bill Clinton's approval rating 63 percent; December, 1998, the House votes to impeach Mr. Clinton. His approval rating climbs to 67 percent.

Now, in the midst of a reelection campaign, a president counts on stabilization in Iraq, a reduced terrorist threat, and patience from voters.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And, while the president is requesting another $87 billion to fight the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, here's what some other wars involving the United States have cost in today's dollars.

The American Revolution lasted eight years and cost the equivalent of some $2.2 billion. The U.S. spent $2.9 trillion to fight World War II. The price tag for eight years of the Vietnam War was $484.3 billion, and the first Gulf War a dozen years ago cost $76.1 billion, almost all of that coming from European, Japanese and oil rich Arab states.

For U.S. troops on the ground in Iraq, the war grinds on. Our Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Only three hours after President Bush's speech, soldiers in this unarmored open top Humvee attacked. Four flack jackets for improvised protection still draped over its side.

According to eyewitnesses an explosive device dropped on the soldiers as they drove under the bridge only two soldiers from the soft skinned vehicle injured but ending two days of no U.S. casualties.

(on camera): According to the U.S. military, their vehicle hit an improvised explosive device. The lull in casualties, however, not an indication attacks are decreasing.

At a U.S. base just west of Baghdad overnight, 14 mortar rounds were fired at it. Attacks here are so common soldiers say they expect to be shot at whenever they go out.

(voice-over): In Baghdad, the coalition's top administrator pushed his nation building agenda meeting the newly-appointed interim minister of works, emphasizing the benefits of President Bush's call for more money.

PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATOR: And it is a clear, dramatic illustration of the fact that the American people are going to finish the job we started when we liberated Iraq here some four months ago.

ROBERTSON: Feelings about President Bush's speech not matched by some Baghdad residents.

"What do you see around" says salesman Haida (ph)? "There is nothing, no security, no rebuilding. It's all lies. Bush is a liar just like Saddam."

Sparking disbelief also, President Bush's defining that the war in Iraq in terms of the war on terrorism.

"Is this terrorism" questions this lawyer? "I mean if I go and occupy the United States and the American people resisted me, will that be labeled terrorism?"

To the north of Baghdad, the hunt for anti-U.S. elements did go on, four men arrested overnight in raids around Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit. The deadly routine of high stakes cat and mouse, catch or be attacked, apparently no mirror conclusion; however, it seems now one step closer to funding for the foreseeable future.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And here is your turn to weigh in on this story. Our web question of the day is this. "Should Congress approve $87 billion for efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan?" We'll have the results later in this broadcast but you can vote right now.

Go to cnn.com/wolf and while you're there I'd love to hear directly from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

Palestinian politics, Yasser Arafat names his choice for a new prime minister but can Arafat's candidate meet U.S. demands?

And, al Qaeda top brass, who's leading the holy warriors right now?

And, a New York firefighter who died two years ago in the 9/11 tragedy, he was buried only today. Our Jason Carroll explains.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In the Middle East, the U.S.-backed road map for peace is seemingly in tatters, shredded by a recent flare up of violence and now by a Palestinian leadership crisis.

Let's go live to our State Department Correspondent Andrea Koppel -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, what a difference four months make. Back then the Bush administration warmly welcomed the man who was to be the Palestinian's first and new Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, the U.S. saying that he was somebody that both the Bush administration and the Sharon government could do business with but today, now that Abbas has resigned, the Bush administration is more reserving its judgment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): The Bush administration reacted cautiously to reports that Palestinian Leader Yasser Arafat had designated Ahmed Qorei, the speaker of the Palestinian Parliament to be the new prime minister.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have to see what political authority and what security forces will be under the new prime minister, which will permit him to do his job of representing the Palestinian people but also dealing with the terror.

KOPPEL: The U.S. refusing to openly support Qorei until Arafat gives him full authority over all Palestinian security forces essential to reign in Hamas and other terrorists among the reasons cited by Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas for his sudden resignation just four months after he took office.

Indeed Qorei indicated his acceptance of the post was conditional based on an Israeli commitment to ease its military crackdown in the Palestinian territories and on winning fresh guarantees of support from the U.S., the Europeans, and President Arafat.

AHMED QOREI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATIVE SPEAKER: If not, I don't want to go (unintelligible).

KOPPEL: In recent weeks of cease-fire by Palestinian militant groups ended abruptly after a suicide bus bombing by Hamas in Jerusalem killing 22 Israelis and a series of targeted killings by Israel of alleged militant leaders. Mid East watchers say Qorei, a long time mediator in Arab-Israeli negotiations, could be a last ditch hope for the peace process. EDWARD OJEREJIAN, FMR. ASST. SECY. OF STATE: The three leading personalities in the Palestinian movement really is Arafat, Abu Mazen, and Qorei and this is really dipping into the remaining level in my eyes of a person with enough stature to make things happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Another potential complication, Israel has refused to negotiate with any prime minister handpicked or selected by Yasser Arafat and so, Wolf, the U.S.-backed road map for peace is stuck right where the last Palestinian prime minister left it, in limbo -- Wolf.

BLITZER: That's depressing to hear that, thanks very much Andrea Koppel at the State Department for that report.

Crackdown on al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, we'll look inside the royal kingdom.

And, the battle to keep terrorism at bay but it hasn't always been this way with the Saudis. Our guest will explain.

And later, he's the last in a long line to die fighting to save others during the September 11 terror attacks in New York, the story of a firefighter buried two years after the tragedy.

And, the attorney for Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel may seek another trial for his client. We'll have details on a startling new development in this 28-year-old murder case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.

Coming up, where is Osama bin Laden? We'll have some new details.

First, though, here are the latest headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: As we approach the second anniversary al Qaeda's September 11 terror attacks, President Bush says two-thirds of al Qaeda's leaders have been caught or killed. But where are the other third? Where -- what are they doing, in fact, and where's the ringleader, Osama bin Laden?

CNN's Mike Boettcher has been looking into all of these questions. He's joining us live from the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Mike, what are you hearing?

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, almost two years after the 9/11 attack, despite a $25 million price tag on his head, Osama bin Laden remains at large. But anti-terror coalition intelligence sources have told CNN, since this past spring, they are closing in on the al Qaeda leader. Intelligence sources tell CNN they have a good idea where he is hiding -- in Pakistan, just across the border from Afghanistan in the mountains of a rugged area southwest of Peshawar. He is surrounded by Pakistani clans who have vowed to protect him.

With him, say these same sources, is his No. 2, Ayman Al- Zawahiri. But knowing his approximate location is one thing. Actually getting to him is quite another.

Then, Wolf, there is another group of al Qaeda operatives, lieutenants believed hiding in Iran. They, too, will be difficult to get to -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Mike, how is he communicating with his supporters?

BOETTCHER: He is communicating by personal courier, we are told by coalition intelligence sources. Messages, for example, were passed earlier in year, in January and early February by human couriers telling his people to go ahead and launch operations. One or two of those couriers were intercepted. One of those letters was, indeed, found in Saudi Arabia. And that is how he's communicating. And that is a problem with finding him because he's staying off the airwaves.

BLITZER: Anybody have any good information why that $25 million reward, the bounty, for Osama bin Laden hasn't paid off? We know that the millions of dollars in reward for Uday and Qusay apparently paid off in Iraq. Why isn't it paying off for Osama bin Laden?

BOETTCHER: Well, these are tight-knit clans and tribes in this area where he is hiding. We are told that they have a rather sophisticated security setup in order to alert bin Laden and his people of strangers approaching. And as well, if you worked in that region, the figure, $25 million, doesn't mean a whole lot to people who live in, basically, another century, Wolf.

BLITZER: Mike Boettcher, who is always on top of the story for us. Thanks, Mike, very much.

And Mike will have a full report on al Qaeda's surviving leaders and the search for them on the premiere of "ANDERSON COOPER 360." That's this evening, 7:00 Eastern, here, of course, on CNN. Good luck to Anderson on this new and important show on CNN.

Fifteen of the September 11 hijackers were Saudi citizens. Saudi money has found its way to terror groups, as we all know. Extremist Saudi clerics have long been accused of fanning the flames of violence. But deadly bombings in Riyadh several months ago may have served as a wake-up call. The Saudis have launched a crackdown on al Qaeda and the crown prince, Abdullah, has made it very personal. But will this crackdown go far enough?

"TIME" magazine this week takes an in-depth look inside the kingdom.

Joining us now from New York, "TIME"'s senior editor, Lisa Beyer.

Lisa, thanks very much join us. What's new about the Saudi effort to deal with terrorism now?

LISA BEYER, "TIME": Well, I think what's new about it is that you can define it as a serious effort in the sense that since the May 12 bombings in Riyadh, the Saudis have made literally hundreds of arrests. They've killed scores of people. They're really gone about cracking heads and uprooting the al Qaeda cells that clearly were operating in the kingdom, certainly not just after May 12, I might add. It's noteworthy that after 9/11, although many other allies of the United States made great efforts to unsettle and discover the al Qaeda cells in their midst, it really took until the May 12 bombings in Riyadh for the Saudis to make the same effort.

BLITZER: As you know, Lisa -- as you know, very well, there are skeptics out there. They think the Saudis really aren't doing what the U.S. would like them to do. They're simply sort of rounding up the usual suspects and pretending to deal with this problem. Are they really getting to the core issues that have created some of these terrorists, like Osama bin Laden?

BEYER: Well, I think that's the area where even the advocates of Saudi Arabia find that there is room for criticism. We all know that the teachings that come out of Saudi textbooks and schools, out of the mosques and out of Saudi outreach programs all over the world contain a great deal of hatred toward infidels, non-Muslims, hatred which, in many cases, you could easily argue is incitement to violence.

The Saudis have made some efforts to address this issue. They say that they are revising their schoolbooks. The foreign minister of Saudi Arabia himself said that they discovered that 10 percent of the text was offensive and another 5 percent was atrocious. He was actually sort of -- said he was relieved at that figure, which I think is a finding that wouldn't relieve the top diplomats of many countries.

Nevertheless, the Saudis say that they are going to take this material out of their textbooks. It remains to be seen whether it will be taken out of the -- out of the schoolrooms altogether. There have been new edicts given to the imams in Saudi Arabia to preach approach tolerance and to stay away from the subject of jihad. What we are told from many accounts in Saudi Arabia today, including the account of the American ambassador in Riyadh is that the imams are for the most part following the instructions, but often they'll get to the sermon and say, Oh, and God, please don't forget to destroy the infidels.

BLITZER: I know you and your colleagues at "TIME" magazine had a chance to interview a lot of U.S. officials, including the U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia. Is the U.S. -- FBI agents, U.S. law enforcement, getting the kind of open access to the suspected terrorists that they really want?

BEYER: You know, the higher you go up in the hierarchy in the United States, the more generous you'll find officials being about the Saudis, especially if they're speaking for the record. And of course, we know that the Bush White House is very close to Saudi Arabia and has, in addition to diplomatic, very personal ties to the Saudi kingdom.

But as you get down on the lower level and you talk to the American officials who are actually doing investigative work, you find -- that's where you start to find the disaffection. You will find that American officials say that the Saudis are getting better, that they're cooperating more and more, but there are some areas where the Saudis just won't go. There are some suspects that they won't allow the Americans to talk to, they won't give the Americans information on. There are some Saudi charities that they seem to be protecting from interrogation. So there's still a lot of room for progress on this front.

BLITZER: All right. Lisa Beyer from our sister publication "TIME" magazine. An important article, the current issue of "TIME" magazine. Lisa, thanks very much for joining us.

BEYER: Thank you, Wolf.

And now to a preview of an exclusive interview with President Bush's father, the former president, George Herbert Walker Bush.

Joining us now live for this preview, our own Paula Zahn, on the set of her new show, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

Paula, this is fabulous that you had a chance to interview the former president at this moment. A lot of strong questions, I assume?

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it's a -- it is a rare opportunity because as you know, he doesn't do many interviews. And in fact, we were quite surprised how open he was when he talk about what his son is going through, and probably one of the more surprising things I think he had to say was that, in many ways, he is internalizing more of the criticism about his son as president that even he did when he served as president. And what you see in part one is a part of the interview was he talks about his son confronting Saddam Hussein and here's what he had to say when I asked him how he feels about that country now that Saddam Hussein is gone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: You told us quite pointedly in one of our last conversations what you thought of Saddam.

GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think there's any point talking dirty on this program here.

ZAHN: What do you think now that he's out of power?

BUSH: Well, I think I'm very glad he is. I think it is much better for the Iraqi people. My view is, look back in three years, you're going to have some form of democracy there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Wolf, it was interesting to hear him talk about the reverse roles of father and son and his son assuring him not to worry so much about what he reads in the newspapers. We are going to spread this out over a five-day period. He has some very interesting reflections on 9/11. But tonight, we're going to concentrate on what he said about Iraq.

BLITZER: Paula, I know you interviewed the former president on several occasions.

How has he changed, as far as your impressions, over these years?

ZAHN: I think he's very relaxed. He says he's at peace. He says he has very limited interest in issues primarily because he knows if he talks openly about them, that we'll be all over him and try to see if that reflects his son's vision for the country. But he says it is a very happy time of his life. He is spending a lot of time with his children, with his grandchildren. He's finding that very satisfying. But he did say there are periods of time when he misses the power he had when he was commander in chief. And he says some very poignant things about what it means to him to see American troops on duty in Iraq and how much respect he has for them. He talked about when he was president, that was the part of the job that he had a terrific amount of respect for, particularly coming from where he came from, as a World War II veteran, a decorated veteran.

BLITZER: Our viewers are very interested about the new show. Tell us very briefly, what's going to be the thrust of the 8:00 hour, 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN?

ZAHN: Do you want to know what we're doing tonight?

We start the show with Howard Dean, the leading Democratic contender at this juncture. You will hear our conversation with the president.

We have an exclusive interview with former chief weapons inspector, U.N. Weapons inspector, Hans Blix, who is highly critical of the process that the United States went through at the U.N. to go to war. And you might be surprised by some things he has to say about Saddam Hussein tonight. Then we have a triumphant interview with Andy Roddick, fresh from a great victory in the U.S. Open.

BLITZER: And We were all proud of him. He did a great job. Paula, we're looking forward to watching the new show every weeknight 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN. We got brand new...

ZAHN: Hey, Wolf.

BLITZER: I don't know -- your cameraman show us the new set -- get a little preview of the new set.

Can we get a shot?

ZAHN: You have always been such a generous colleague that we will give you and your viewers the first peek at this brand new set. Check it out. All right. All right. That's not terrible. I don't want to get busted by my bosses. There is more of the wide view you will see this evening.

BLITZER: A fabulous set, a fabulous reporter. Paula Zahn doing a great job. And we're looking forward to the premiere tonight, "PAULA ZAHN NOW" tonight, 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN every weeknight. We just have to make sure we watch it every night.

ZAHN: As always, thanks for your support, Wolf.

BLITZER: Good luck to you.

New information, new trial, this from the attorney for Michael Skakel and the source for this information is not your usual suspect. We'll check in on the latest.

Also, in California, the recall. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: An attorney for Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel plans to push for a new trial based on what she calls newly discovered evidence. That word from a prosecution source. Skakel, as many of you remember, was convicted of murder over a year ago in the 1975 killing of Martha Moxley. "The Hartford Current" has reported that a former classmate of Skakel, Tony Bryant, has told defense attorneys that two of his friends admitted killing Moxley. That they also identified Bryant as a cousin of Los Angeles Lakers star, Kobe Bryant, who, of course, has been charged with sexual assault in an unrelated case in Colorado. What an amazing coincidence that is.

With me to talk about this new twist in the Skakel case, Paul Butler, he's a law professor at the George Washington University Law School here in Washington.

Paul, thanks very much for joining us. What a bizarre coincidence that is. First of all, let's talk about reopening that case. How difficult is the burden, how difficult would it be for Skakel's attorneys to do that?

PAUL BUTLER, LAW PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV.: It is very difficult. We have to remember that a jury found Mr. Skakel guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Courts don't like to disturb verdicts like that, even with cases with scientific DNA evidence new trials are rare. Here, with this testimonial he said, she said evidence, Mr. Skakels chances are slim.

BLITZER: But the defense attorneys still will go forward because it is the only hope they have.

BUTLER: Absolutely. An interesting tactic, they're saying the defense attorney was infective because he knew about the evidence and yet choose not to go forward. Sometimes they'll do what we call falling on the sword. They say, yes, I was infective, for that reason, my client should get a new trial. So it will be interesting to see what happens.

BLITZER: So, if you're arguing the original attorney he had new about this information but didn't act on it but should have that is sort of malpractice, isn't it?

BUTLER: Well, it doesn't quite reach the limit of malpractice. It is a strategic call. And different lawyers will disagree with whether the attorney made the right call. In sense, he didn't, Mr. Skakel was convicted. But who knows whether the new evidence would have made a difference.

BLITZER: And the difficulty would be to get the two suspects, if there are others out there, to acknowledge there was some sort of guilt. You're relying on a lot of hearsay this particular case?

BUTLER: Sure. In addition to the legal burdens. Lots of factual problems. First of all, why did Mr. Bryant sit on this evidence for over 30 years?

BLITZER: Tony Bryant, the cousin supposedly of Kobe Bryant.

BUTLER: Kobe Bryant has to be hating this. Anytime you are accused of one crime, you hate to be associated even indirectly with another crime. Another problem with this new evidence is supposedly there were three young African-American men who were running around this area. This is a neighborhood -- an area in which three young black men would have stood out, to say the least.

BLITZER: In Greenwich, Connecticut, a very affluent area.

BUTLER: None of the witnesses say they saw these men in the area.

BLITZER: It is possible they will get a retrial. But very, very unlikely. That's your bottom line?

BUTLER: You got it.

BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much, Paul Butler, George Washington University Law School, thanks very much.

BUTLER: Nice to be here.

BLITZER: In New York City, a painful 9/11 milestone. We'll bring you a family's belated farewell to a fallen hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: For New York firefighters and one family in particular, today saw a closing of a painful chapter which began on September 11, almost two years ago. CNN's Jason Carroll reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His mother said, men like her son were born firefighters. That's why Michael Ragusa's family wanted him laid to rest the way a firefighter who has fallen in the line of duty should be memorialized, with full honors.

DEE RAGUSA, MOTHER: I truly believe that Mike refused to be found because he did not want us to think of him as dead.

CARROLL: Michael was one of 343 firefighters killed during the terrorist attack. He is the last to have a funeral. For nearly two years, Michael's family hoped the medical examiner would find something to identify him and bring closure.

D. RAGUSA: I mean, I know he's gone. But you know, when you get a phone call and no one is on the other end, I just say, Michael, it's all right, come home.

CARROLL: The Ragusas knew Michael had been a bone marrow donor, in honor of his brother who survived leukemia. What they didn't know, doctors had kept a vial of his blood.

D. RAGUSA: That vial to us is Michael. We can bury him now.

VINCENT RAGUSA, FATHER: Once we put Michael in the grave, it is going to put us at ease in the sense that we'll have a place to go.

CARROLL: Michael was 29. He was buried next to his best friend, fellow firefighter Paul Molinaro (ph), who was also killed on September 11.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Arnold Schwarzenegger's wife, Maria Shriver, today starts appearing on her own in campaign events for his gubernatorial campaign. The former television correspondent's high profile comes as three major polls taken within a couple of days showed different conclusions in the California governor's recall race. One has Arnold Schwarzenegger ahead. A second shows the Democratic Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante in the lead. A third finds the two of them in a dead heat.

By the way, today is the first day to vote by absentee ballot.

Speaking of voting and polls, here is how you're weighing in on our Web question of the day. Should Congress approve $87 billion for efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? Look at this, 16 percent of you say yes; 84 percent of you say no. This is not, remember, a scientific poll.

Let's get to your e-mails. This from J: "It's amazing to me that Congress is willing to give Bush $87 billion more. What will the tab be next year? Our roads, schools, bridges, electrical grids, and of course the economy are in shambles, yet Congress wants to rebuild Iraq."

Sue writes: "I would like to know how the $87 billion is to be spent before Congress approves it. Some is going to reconstruction and some to the military. How much is going to Bechtel and Halliburton via their no-bid contracts?" This from Judy: "We need to support our president. $87 billion is an investment in our future security. It is most frustrating that people want instant answers and results in such a complex issue."

A reminder, you can always catch us here on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS weekdays, 5:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm also here every weekday at noon Eastern. Until tomorrow, thanks very much for joining us. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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Skakel Case?; Shriver Campaigns for Schwarzenegger>