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CNN Live Saturday
Transportation Security Administration Talks Of "Risk" Coding Airline Passengers
Aired September 13, 2003 - 14:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: This week the transportation security administration is talking about color coding airline passengers, according to the degree of perceived risk. A few deemed red would be denied boarding altogether. It's just the latest change in the state of air security two years after 9/11. With some insights on that we turn to our guest, Robert Francis, former member of the national transportation safety board, and he joins us from Washington. Good to see you, Bob.
ROBERT FRANCIS, FRM. MEMBER, TSA: Nice to be here.
WHITFIELD: Well, how exactly would this color coding be determined on these airline passengers?
FRANCIS: Well, they'd be -- intelligence agencies and credit reference and all of the data that's -- that's out there would be available to the TSA and the agencies doing this. To be able to look at someone's background and make a determination in terms of what the potential threat of this person would be. And then categorize them.
WHITFIELD: Is this yet new layer an indicator that perhaps air security is not quite as secure as federal officials would like it to be?
FRANCIS: I think there have been enormous improvements, but I think what this is doing is something that's -- that a lot of us thought should have been done maybe earlier but it's difficult to do and that is to focus on the people who may be trying to perpetrate a terrorist act rather than on nail files and corkscrews and those sorts of things.
WHITFIELD: In fact...
FRANCIS: So...
WHITFIELD: Talking about some of those changes, such as the nail files and the corkscrews as you mentioned and even now travelers have to show their I.D., they have to have their boarding passes before they can go through security, there have been all kinds of changes that airline passengers have been subjected to but do you see through this sort of phase of experimentation that some of these procedures will fall by the wayside because they really do not work, they're not a real safety net?
FRANCIS: Well, I think that from my point of view, the major, major things that have been done in terms of preventing hijacking are, number one, the reinforced cockpit doors and, number two, passenger awareness. I think the chances that somebody's going to hijack an aircraft in this country now, a major aircraft, and use it as a weapon are really very far out on the risk scale.
So, yes. I think that as they get more sophisticated and the TSA actually a couple of weeks ago was talking about reducing the number of air marshals. I think that's a prudent thing to do and actually talked publicly about this after it happened.
Unfortunately, certain members of congress immediately came down on them and forced them to retract. And what that means, it's an issue of where you're using your resources. So they're having to use those resources on things that a lot of us think aren't that valuable as opposed to using them somewhere else where they're more needed.
WHITFIELD: And it also seems like there's some issuance of being careful about what exactly is being publicized. For example, this week, this person who is able to pass off as cargo being able to travel halfway across the country because he smuggled himself, you know, through a plane, through the cargo hold. Is this now an example of perhaps some stiffer restrictions, security measures that ought to be taken for cargo holds?
FRANCIS: There is absolutely no question that cargo is an issue. And if I were to list one of the issues that's most important to take some of the resources going into sky marshals and transfer them, I think that Jim Loy and the TSA should be focusing on cargo. But they've got to be given the ability to use their resources as they see fit.
I'd also make a point that this was a sort of an unusual thing. Yes, it happened. This gentleman who hid himself had some assistance from -- it wasn't just done by himself. You know, the system is never going to be perfect. There are going to be things -- we're moving things and we're moving people. And that means that you're not going to have perfect security. Perfect security is not moving anything.
WHITFIELD: All right.
FRANCIS: But it's getting a lot better than it has been and it will continue to do so.
WHITFIELD: Still a work in progress. Robert Francis, thanks very much, former NTSB official now aviation analyst for CNN, thanks very much.
FRANCIS: You're welcome.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Coding Airline Passengers>
Aired September 13, 2003 - 14:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: This week the transportation security administration is talking about color coding airline passengers, according to the degree of perceived risk. A few deemed red would be denied boarding altogether. It's just the latest change in the state of air security two years after 9/11. With some insights on that we turn to our guest, Robert Francis, former member of the national transportation safety board, and he joins us from Washington. Good to see you, Bob.
ROBERT FRANCIS, FRM. MEMBER, TSA: Nice to be here.
WHITFIELD: Well, how exactly would this color coding be determined on these airline passengers?
FRANCIS: Well, they'd be -- intelligence agencies and credit reference and all of the data that's -- that's out there would be available to the TSA and the agencies doing this. To be able to look at someone's background and make a determination in terms of what the potential threat of this person would be. And then categorize them.
WHITFIELD: Is this yet new layer an indicator that perhaps air security is not quite as secure as federal officials would like it to be?
FRANCIS: I think there have been enormous improvements, but I think what this is doing is something that's -- that a lot of us thought should have been done maybe earlier but it's difficult to do and that is to focus on the people who may be trying to perpetrate a terrorist act rather than on nail files and corkscrews and those sorts of things.
WHITFIELD: In fact...
FRANCIS: So...
WHITFIELD: Talking about some of those changes, such as the nail files and the corkscrews as you mentioned and even now travelers have to show their I.D., they have to have their boarding passes before they can go through security, there have been all kinds of changes that airline passengers have been subjected to but do you see through this sort of phase of experimentation that some of these procedures will fall by the wayside because they really do not work, they're not a real safety net?
FRANCIS: Well, I think that from my point of view, the major, major things that have been done in terms of preventing hijacking are, number one, the reinforced cockpit doors and, number two, passenger awareness. I think the chances that somebody's going to hijack an aircraft in this country now, a major aircraft, and use it as a weapon are really very far out on the risk scale.
So, yes. I think that as they get more sophisticated and the TSA actually a couple of weeks ago was talking about reducing the number of air marshals. I think that's a prudent thing to do and actually talked publicly about this after it happened.
Unfortunately, certain members of congress immediately came down on them and forced them to retract. And what that means, it's an issue of where you're using your resources. So they're having to use those resources on things that a lot of us think aren't that valuable as opposed to using them somewhere else where they're more needed.
WHITFIELD: And it also seems like there's some issuance of being careful about what exactly is being publicized. For example, this week, this person who is able to pass off as cargo being able to travel halfway across the country because he smuggled himself, you know, through a plane, through the cargo hold. Is this now an example of perhaps some stiffer restrictions, security measures that ought to be taken for cargo holds?
FRANCIS: There is absolutely no question that cargo is an issue. And if I were to list one of the issues that's most important to take some of the resources going into sky marshals and transfer them, I think that Jim Loy and the TSA should be focusing on cargo. But they've got to be given the ability to use their resources as they see fit.
I'd also make a point that this was a sort of an unusual thing. Yes, it happened. This gentleman who hid himself had some assistance from -- it wasn't just done by himself. You know, the system is never going to be perfect. There are going to be things -- we're moving things and we're moving people. And that means that you're not going to have perfect security. Perfect security is not moving anything.
WHITFIELD: All right.
FRANCIS: But it's getting a lot better than it has been and it will continue to do so.
WHITFIELD: Still a work in progress. Robert Francis, thanks very much, former NTSB official now aviation analyst for CNN, thanks very much.
FRANCIS: You're welcome.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Coding Airline Passengers>
