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CNN Larry King Live
Jack, Jackie Kennedy's Wedding 50 Years Ago Remembered by Friends, Family
Aired September 23, 2003 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight: The 50th anniversary of the wedding of President John F. Kennedy and Jacqueline Bouvier, and you're cordially invited. Relive a historic ceremony, a lavish wedding reception. We'll do it with family and friends who were there: Jacqueline Kennedy's stepbrother, Hugh Auchincloss, and her half- brother, James Lee Auchincloss. The wedding reception was held at their family's Newport, Rhode Island, estate. Paul "Red" Fay, President Kennedy's best friend from their Navy's days and an usher from the wedding, where he took home movies. Charles Bartlett -- Jack and Jacqueline met at a small dinner party at his home in May of 1951. And Marcia Kennedy Manning, only 17 when JFK himself invited her to the wedding. An anniversary you won't want to miss, when JFK wed Jackie, and it's next on LARRY KING LIVE.
What an extraordinary show we have planned for you tonight on LARRY KING LIVE. We're going to look back at the wedding of John Kennedy and Jackie Bouvier Kennedy. That happened over 50 years ago, in September of 1953. They would have been married over 50 years.
Joining us in Newport, Rhode Island, is Hugh Auchincloss. He's the stepbrother of Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis. He was an usher, by the way, at that historic wedding. On the phone is his half-brother James Lee. James has a different father than you. They have the same mother, Janet. He was also a half-brother of you and was a page at that wedding. In San Francisco is Paul "Red" Fay -- there he is -- one of JFK's closest friends, was an usher at the wedding, took home movies of the event -- you'll see some of them here -- author of the bestselling book about JFK, "The Pleasure of His Company." Joining us in a while is Marcia Kennedy Manning. At 17, she attended the wedding with her parents -- not related to the Kennedys, though. And in Washington, one of the foremost journalists -- good to see him again -- Charles Bartlett. Jack and Jacqueline met at a small dinner party at his home in May of 1951. He was also an usher at that wedding.
Let's start with Charles. What do you remember about that dinner party and that meeting, Charles?
CHARLES BARTLETT, JFK MET JACKIE AT HIS HOME IN MAY, 1951: Well, I just remember that -- a very, very warm evening and a very, very hopeful beginning to a great romance. The senator -- he was not even then a senator, he was a congressman -- followed Jackie out to her car. And there, in the back of the car, was a beau of Jackie's who had seen her car and was waiting for her to come out. So Jack, who had helped to -- asked Jackie to come out and have a drink after dinner, was stymied. And Jackie had to sort of cover the scene in the back of her car. And that was the beginning.
KING: Did you arrange this dinner for the two of them to meet?
BARTLETT: We did. My wife arranged it. Martha put it together.
KING: And you thought they would hit it off?
BARTLETT: Yes. I think we both felt very strongly that they would hit it off. They had sort of the same glamour about them. They had -- there was something very special about -- very, very special about Jack and about her.
KING: Did you know at that time that he planned to run for the Senate?
BARTLETT: Yes. I think it was pretty evident.
KING: Yes. Because it was only a year before, right?
BARTLETT: I think it was very evident, yes.
KING: Hugh, what did Jackie tell you about meeting -- what did your stepsister tell you about meeting John Kennedy?
HUGH AUCHINCLOSS, JACQUELINE KENNEDY'S STEPBROTHER: Well, Jackie and I were living at our family's house in McLean, Virginia, Marywood (ph), and I was studying at the school of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) studies in Washington at the time, and she was an inquiring (ph) photographer. And we were both friends of Charlie and Martha Bartlett's and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we had several mutual friends in Washington.
And she asked me about -- she said, I met this very attractive congressman from Massachusetts. And we would love to have them out for -- for a swim at our pool and drinks and dinner. And she said, Well, I don't want you to get into any argument with him because you're conservative, he's a liberal. You went to Yale. I went to -- he went to Harvard. You went to Groton. He went to Choate. You were a marine. He's in the Navy. But you both -- but you both have something in common. You're great -- you're hero worshipers of George Washington, and you both have an interest in foreign policy. And so that's what sort of started the dinner party off.
KING: Did you like him right away, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I liked him very much. And we didn't -- we didn't argue, and we never have argued. We sometimes differed in our opinions, but the great thing about President Kennedy, he always asked questions and he was a great listener.
KING: Yes.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: And he respected everybody's -- anybody else's opinion, and he made you feel that you were the authority. And he's a very gracious person. And one thing Jackie always looked for in men was chivalry, grace and charm and courage and...
KING: He had all four.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: And he had all four.
KING: James Lee Auchincloss is with us on the phone. He's a half brother of Jackie's, as well, has the same mother as you. What do you remember about their meeting, James? What did she tell you or he tell you?
JAMES LEE AUCHINCLOSS, HALF-BROTHER OF JACQUELINE KENNEDY: Well, I had the same father as Hugh, and Jackie and I had the same mother. I was 6-and-a-half years old. And he came up to Newport a few weeks before the wedding, and he came in the front door as I was coming down this rather long red-carpeted staircase, a rather grand manor. And I said to him, Hello, Kennedy, because I had heard from some of my little conservative Republican friends that this was sort of an alien force invading our happy isle. And he replied in the same tone of voice. So that won me over very quickly.
And later that evening, much to the annoyance of the grown-ups, I challenged him to Chinese checkers, which I had never lost. And he played seven games with me, and he won all of them. And that impressed me so much that I took him aside as I was about to be taken up to bed, and I told him that seven years from then, he would be the first Catholic elected president.
KING: Oh!
J. AUCHINCLOSS: And it was a prediction that he remembered when he was president-elect. And we had a good time with my predicting powers.
KING: Let's turn to San Francisco, our old friend, Paul "Red" Fay, one of JFK's closest friends, Patient (UNINTELLIGIBLE) patriot of his, was an usher at the wedding, took home movies of the event, and was author of a terrific book years ago called "The Pleasure of His Company."
What do you remember about him meeting her, Paul?
PAUL "RED" FAY, JFK'S BEST FRIEND, USHER AT WEDDING: Well, I can remember that I got a letter from Jack, which I want to read part of it to you. "I gave everything a great deal of thought, so I'm getting married this fall. This means the end of a promising political career has been up to now almost completely on the old sex appeal. I hope you and the bride, which is my darling wife, will be able to come. The date is September the 12th, as I need you to come down the aisle with me. Your special project is the bride's mother -- one fine girl, but who has a tendency when excited to think I'm not good enough for her daughter and talked too much -- talked just too much. As I am both too young and too old for all this, will need several long talks on how to conduct yourself during the first six months, based on your actual real-life experience. Let me know the general reaction of this in the Bay area. Your buddy, Jack."
KING: Wow.
FAY: I love that.
KING: You were not best man though, right?
FAY: No, I was not. I was...
KING: George Smathers was, wasn't he?
FAY: No, I think Bobby. Bobby.
KING: Oh, Bobby was best man.
FAY: No, Bobby Kennedy was the best man.
KING: Did you like her right away, Red?
FAY: Yes, I did. I met her the -- you know, I came up to Hammersmith Farm and Jack introduced me to her. He had been at a Boston speech making during the campaign. And I met her, and I'll tell you, she had a certain sense of style and charm that I've never found in any other woman.
KING: We'll come right back with Paul. Let's turn to Marcia Kennedy Manning, not related to the Kennedys. And she attended the wedding with her parents. You were only 17 at the time. What -- your parents knew the Kennedys or the Bouviers?
MARCIA KENNEDY MANNING, ATTENDED WEDDING AT AGE 17: My father knew Ambassador Kennedy.
KING: What did you -- what do you remember about the wedding?
MANNING: Well, there was such excitement because the -- I'm from Boston and the Kennedys were well-known, and it was a Kennedy wedding until you got there and you saw Jacqueline. She had a great sense of style, as Mr. Fay said. Her dress was different. The bridesmaids' were different. There were crowds outside the church. The church was full. It was a small church, and there were, I think, 800 people at the wedding. It was just a very funny (ph) time.
KING: We'll be right back with our outstanding panel, as we look back on -- gee, John Kennedy would have been 86 years old. That marriage was over 50 years ago. Five people really involved with it. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Hugh, what kind of romance was it? It was not a whirlwind romance, was it?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: No. I believe it -- the way I saw it, it was a great respect for each other's intellect. They both loved history. Jackie also was a great artist. And they -- they're both very patriotic people, and great sense of duty. And I think that -- the combination -- the -- their interest in history brought them together. And then it -- they were both physically very attractive, very handsome and lovely. Jack was handsome and Jackie lovely. And so there was a physical attraction. But the -- I think the real love came after -- well, they had a great deal of sadness, death of a child, and then Caroline's birth and...
KING: So you think the love grew?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Oh, I think the love definitely grew. And I think it reached its peak -- well, it certainly reached its height the last year or two of the -- of their marriage, and I think especially after Jack -- after the Bay of Pigs and Jackie -- Jack Kennedy realized how much he needed Jackie, both in campaigning, and she could speak a lot of languages, but he needed her advice and her sort of comfort, especially after the Bay of Pigs. And that brought them together.
But I would like to say something about Red Fay. I came -- I was flying from San Francisco to New York, and I stopped at Red's house up in California, outside the San Francisco airport, for a drink. And he gave me a copy of his book, "The Pleasure of His Company." And people have sent me books they'd written about the Kennedys, Jackie and Jack Kennedy, this, that and the other thing, most of them with a lot of mistakes and exaggerations and innuendoes. But on the plane, I was reading Red's book, and sometimes I start to chuckle...
KING: Oh, boy!
H. AUCHINCLOSS: ... and then I -- I start to tears (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I'd weep. And the person sitting next to me couldn't figure out. I said, This is the best book that's ever been written or probably ever will be written about President Kennedy.
KING: I couldn't agree with you more. I remember when I first read it, when Paul came on my radio show years ago. It is still one of the great -- it's not a biography, it's one of the great...
H. AUCHINCLOSS: It's a wonderful story.
KING: ... memoirs, a great story with a lot of laughs and a lot of tears and a wonderful love affair between -- of two men that's not sexual, Paul Fay's admiration for his friend.
Charles, it has to be asked. Didn't reporters know that Jack Kennedy liked the ladies? And did that ever affect your writing?
BARTLETT: Well, I actually didn't -- wasn't affected by it at all. The -- jack's love of ladies was pretty well hidden, as far as the -- I don't think anybody in the press knew about it. I, frankly, if I were called upon to testify, would have to say that I knew nothing. And I would say it under oath. There was no -- it wasn't a sort of a sloppy kind of a thing, whatever he did.
KING: James, did you know about it?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, a 6-year-old brother-in-law, 16 when he died, he wasn't going to confide in me like that.
(LAUGHTER) KING: No. Are you surprised with what you've learned or not?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: Not -- not completely. Those were very different times, and there was a lot of sort of boasting going on. But I don't like hearing the things...
KING: No.
J. AUCHINCLOSS: ... but that was just what happened.
KING: Red, it didn't surprise you, did it?
FAY: Well, I can tell you, I think it's been oh, so exaggerated over the years. And Jack's love for Jackie was so outstanding and, you know, what she did for the White House, you know, bringing things up that hadn't ever been done before. And then there was one other thing that happened to Lafayette Park. And when Jack became president, why, they had a Boston architectural firm that was going to put a great big government building facing Lafayette Park, and Jackie just blew her cork on that and said, They can't do that. And so they hired John Warneke (ph), the architect, and Warneke, who happened to be on the Stanford football team when Jack was out at Stanford in the fall of 1940, when we won every single game, including the Rose Bowl -- but Warneke designed the houses that had been torn down and had them built back up again. And thank God because now Lafayette Park...
KING: Yes, but...
FAY: ... has the old houses, but the government building is facing 17th Street.
KING: Are you saying, Red, that all the stories you hear now are exaggerated?
FAY: You mean about Jack?
KING: Yes.
FAY: Yes, I think they're all exaggerated, to a great extent. I think people get a -- they think they can make some record for themselves by trying to bring something in that hasn't been -- ever been proven.
KING: But he did like women, did he not?
FAY: Well, I mean, we all like women. My God, if I didn't like women, I'd be out of my mind.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: We'll get back to more on the wedding.
Marcia, are you disturbed when you read the stories?
MANNING: Well, I think public individuals are entitled to private lives, and they were then, and I think it's unfortunate now. We don't need to know everything about everybody's lives, so -- I think it's distasteful.
KING: They must have been, Marcia, a great-looking couple to be around. I mean, they...
MANNING: They were.
KING: Because each was dazzling.
MANNING: He was tall and handsome and very, very personable. She was very young, 24, when she got married, and she was in her early 30s when she was at the White House. And it was just amazing that she was able to do so many things, being so young.
KING: Were you happy they got married, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Oh, I was delighted. And...
KING: Even though he was a Democrat?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I'm an independent, by the way. But a few -- some nights I spend -- I stay at the White House, and the usher would tell me, Oh, Mr. Auchincloss, the president says you're the only Republican staying here this evening -- tonight. So you have your usual room, which is President Lincoln's room, and I...
But go back on that other question. I've spent a lot of -- I've been in the same house with Jack Kennedy, sometimes with Jackie and sometimes without, including the White House. And I've read all these -- I've heard about these stories. I never saw Jack Kennedy flirt with another girl. I mean, he -- yes, he was always very charming, but I never -- these stories that go around, I think, are wishful thinking by some women after his death, when he couldn't contradict them, and they just exaggerated the story and it gets printed.
KING: Let me get right back with our panel and more on Jackie and Jack, one of the celebrated stories in American political history. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: What a guest list at that wedding. The invitations included two cards, a cream-colored card for admittance and another card announcing a reception. Invited guests, five U.S. senators, the Speaker of the House, 20 congressmen, Lady Astor, Pamela Churchill, later Pamela Harriman, Marion Davies, the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire, Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas, Adlai Stevenson, Alan Jay Lerner (ph), Alice Roosevelt Longworth. Pat and Richard Nixon were invited, had to decline because of a last-minute invitation from President Eisenhower. Seven hundred and fifty people at the church, twelve hundred at the reception.
Paul, all that for a congressman? FAY: It was absolutely amazing. But it's interesting, you know, we were talking about -- I was a Republican all the time I was undersecretary of the Navy, and actually, when I shared a room with Jack in 1946, when he first ran for Congress. But I was up at Camp David, and I said to the president, I said, Does it bother you having me be a Republican? Before he could answer, Jackie said, You stay a Republican. She felt -- I think she felt that having -- McNamara was a Republican and a few other people were Republicans who were in his administration. And as you know, that Jack played the middle of the road as much as anybody that had ever been president, as far as I know.
KING: Agreed. Charles, were you at the wedding
BARTLETT: I was. Yes.
KING: All right, what do you remember? How did they get a kind of guest list like that for a congressman?
BARTLETT: Well, I think, you know, Jack had been around a lot. He knew a lot of people. The Kennedys knew a lot of people, the Auchincloss -- it was a gathering of people who knew each other. And they all -- it was very splendiferous. I must say, the Auchincloss house in Newport was a great setting, the water nearby, gardens in full glow. It was a very beautiful wedding.
KING: Was it fun, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, it was a great deal of fun. Unfortunately, I wasn't feeling terribly well because I had been -- I had been a graduate student in Beirut, American University, and I -- afterwards, I had been hitchhiking through Syria and Iraq and Iran and gotten quite sick and lost a lot of weight. And so the wedding itself -- the church service itself was uncomfortable for me, but the reception was very pleasant -- a very beautiful reception.
KING: James, what do you remember about the reception and the wedding? You were so young.
J. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, it's my first cognitive memory, so almost...
KING: Really?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: ... like celebrating a birthday, I celebrate that as the beginning of memory. The first thing I remember, and the best thing, is the way I was dressed. I was part of sort of this splendiferous mosaic, so I was in black velvet shorts, a silk shirt, a lace chapeau and lace at my wrists, and I had high white cotton socks and black patent leather shoes. So I was really something out of "Gone With the Wind."
KING: You were adorable!
J. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, I was a little bit chubby, and I didn't enjoy having to kneel on a cold stone step as the pageboy. I carried her train at the wedding. And it was my first time in a Catholic church, and I didn't go back until the funeral of Patrick and then the funeral of the president. I was Episcopalian.
KING: Marcia, what do you remember at 17?
MANNING: I remember how beautiful Jackie was and how lovely her dress was. It was a different dress from what most brides wore. There wasn't any lace on it. It was a cream color, and she had appliques of fabric on it. And the bridesmaids had a very unusual color combination for the time. It was a shocking and a pale pink. And you had an idea then what her sense of style and fashion was. And it was nice to follow through and see that she was really a style setter, even at the age of 24.
KING: Hey, Red, was there a bachelor -- was there a bachelor party, Red?
FAY: There was a great bachelor party at the Clambake Club, which is priceless, and I think Hugh Auchincloss's father was picking up the tab for the dinner. And I sat next to Jack at the table. And since I had five sisters, he said, Now, Red, what's the experience? What do we do here? I said, What you do is, the first drink, you toast to your bride-to-be, and then you throw the glasses in the fireplace. And these were beautiful crystal glasses. And so we all drained it down, and then Jack -- I loved it! He said, I'm so moved by my darling wife-to-be that -- let's have another toast to the bride-to-be. And so everybody drinks it up again, and another 18 glasses go in the fireplace.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: What do you remember most about the wedding, Red?
FAY: Well, I think I remember that -- you know, Jackie's father could not come because I think he'd gotten involved in liquor the night before, and he -- so therefore, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) father took Jackie down the aisle. But I can remember that the crowds that were -- you know, outside the thing. And it's amazing enough that all of the pictures that were taken, there were very, very few moving pictures. I think my wife and I took most of the moving pictures.
KING: Yes, that's surprising because there -- they -- you don't see a lot of moving pictures of that wedding. Yours is one of the -- maybe only. There aren't many.
FAY: I think you're right.
KING: What -- where did they go on their honeymoon, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Acapulco.
KING: And when they got back, they settled in Washington?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: In Georgetown, yes.
KING: And did Jackie continue to do her photography? H. AUCHINCLOSS: The inquiring photographer. I -- I...
KING: She was the inquiring photographer, right?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Yes. I don't think she did, but I -- but Charlie would know more about that than I.
KING: Yes. Charlie, did she?
BARTLETT: No, I don't believe she did. I think she knocked it off.
KING: And what did she do?
BARTLETT: Well, That's a good question, but I honestly think that she -- I don't know. You know, being part of the Kennedy clan is not exactly restful, so I think she probably had plenty of people coming and going, trips. I don't -- you know, Jackie was very artistic, and she did a lot of drawing and writing. The arts were really -- drew her, drew her all the time.
KING: Was she accepted warmly by the Kennedys, Charles?
BARTLETT: Oh, I always thought so, yes. I think that -- I think Papa Kennedy, Joe Kennedy, I think, thought she was great. I -- I think the sisters sort of looked at her and made their own relationships. I don't know how close they became. But the -- it was warm.
KING: We'll take a break and come right back. He mentioned Papa Kennedy. We'll ask about his role in the wedding, Joe Kennedy, one of the formidable figures of the 20th century. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Looking back at the life and times of the late John and Jackie Kennedy. They were married in September of 1953. That's 50 -- over 50 years ago.
Our panelists are Hugh Auchincloss. He's in Newport Rhode Island, stepbrother of Jackie.
James Lee Auchincloss is on the phone, half brother of Jackie.
In San Francisco is Paul "Red" Fay, one of JFK's closest friends and usher at the wedding.
In Boston is Marcia Kennedy Manning. At 17, she attended the wedding with her parents, friends of the Kennedys.
And in Washington is the famed journalist Charles Bartlett. Jack and Jackie met at the small dinner party at his home in May of 1951. He was an usher at the wedding. And that, of course, a historic day. The meeting of what would become one of the great couple of the 20th Century.
Hugh, what was Joe Kennedy's involvement in the wedding?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I think he probably planned a great deal of it as far as the guest list from Massachusetts. And, I think he -- he certainly planned more than my stepmother did and -- or my father.
And...
KING: Because he was kind of a hands on person, wasn't he?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I think he was, yes. And I really -- I really didn't know him....
KING: You didn't? No?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: ...very well. And I didn't feel as close to him as I felt to Jack or Bobby.
KING: Red, was he a dominant figure at the wedding?
FAY: I think that his presence was so outstanding at the wedding. I know we have movies of Jack and -- I mean of Joe and Jack's mother, and I think that his presence there added so much to the character of the wedding. I mean, he is a dominant figure in almost everything he did. And in fact, I think one time when he was -- he was a head of the SEC, he was the head of the Security (UNINTELLIGIBLE), then the ambassador to Great Britain. And I think that he had aspirations of maybe one day being president maybe himself.
KING: Yes. Did -- by the way, Charles, Joe always wanted his -- one of his sons to be president, didn't he?
BARTLETT: Oh, I think so. The heat was on. I think Jack knew the race for the Senate was the beginning of a long race for the presidency.
KING: Because...
BARTLETT: I think Joe had -- Joe had the whole thing sort of in his mind and Jack was ready to go.
FAY: I want to cut in here.
KING: Sure.
FAY: I think one of the sad things was when young Joe was killed, Jack, I think his father had young Joe would have been the one he thought would be eventually a president of the United States. And I remember Jack saying to me he says -- he said, "Now the burden falls on me." I'm going to have to be -- carry the ball for my father.
J. AUCHINCLOSS: There was an interesting story about Joe who was always called the ambassador, was a title that was a little bit more fearsome than Mr. President. And he sent his wife, Rose, down to Hammersmith Farm and then to Bailey's Beach for a lunch with my mother and they went to the beach way overdressed and had this really rather difficult discussion about who was going to do what at the wedding and my mother stood up to all of the ambassador's demands. And Jack was tickled that my mother was one of the first people to really face him down.
One of his requirements was that there be a separate tent and that tent would have cigars and whiskey served to the working press. And there would be a lot of phone lines and typewriters put in there. And my mother insisted any member of the press that attended the wedding get the same invitation that anybody else had and that they be part of the wedding party and enjoy the same food and drinks as the rest. And if they really needed to make a telephone call, they could just use our phone.
And, as it turned out, she won that demand and the members of the press were absolutely delighted to be treated like human beings.
KING: The wedding was conducted -- the ceremony conducted by then Archbishop Richard Cushing, one of the famed names in American church circles, including -- a blessing by the pope. Kennedys had a little clout, Saint Mary's Church was decorated with pink (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and white mums. Jackie, we already explained, escorted down the aisle by her stepfather because her father was ill from the night before. Jackie and her father were very, very close.
Hugh has said that "Gone With The Wind" was one of the favorite films. Is that right, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: That's correct. And I think Jack Bouvier who -- he had always a friend of mine from the first -- when Jackie became my stepsister in 1942 and she introduced me to her father and we became friends and I stayed friends with him until actually the week before he died, when I was having dinner with him in New York.
And, he was sort of a Clark Gable sort of figure.
KING: Yes.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: And swashbuckling. He was very handsome. Very gracious. And wonderful gentleman.
KING: The ushers at the wedding were the brother-in-law, Sarge Shriver, Jackie's stepbrothers, Michael Canfield, cousin Joe Gargan (ph), prep school friend Glen Billings -- boy, what names -- Red Fay of course, and Jim Reed. George Smathers, the senator from Florida, Jack -- one of Jack's close friends. College classmate Torbitt McDonald (ph) and Charles Bartlett, Chuck Spalding (ph) and Ben Smith. Gifts were presented at the bridal dinner.
What did you get, Paul?
FAY: What did I get? At the bridal dinner?
KING: For being an usher.
FAY: I -- You know, it slips my mind, but...
KING: Paul!
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Umbrella.
(CROSSTALK)
FAY: I think we did get umbrellas, now that I think of it.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Yes, with the initials. Our initials and Jack's initials and the date. On the band.
KING: Charles, do you remember your umbrella?
BARTLETT: No, I don't, Larry.
KING: Forgot your umbrella?
BARTLETT: Forgot it.
KING: Was -- Charles, was it a big story in the newspapers? Was it like front page of "The Washington Post"?
BARTLETT: I think it was front page of the "New York Times.' It hit hard.
KING: It's amazing we're talking about a Congressman and there are a lot of them.
BARTLETT: By this time, the Kennedy's had sort of accumulated an aura of glamour which followed them wherever they went. I think Jack had that.
KING: More on a moment with this panel on looking back 50 years ago. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: There were hordes of photographer at this wedding. Paul (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as we know, had the home movie camera and we are seeing some of that. Jackie would not pose clinking champagne glasses. She said it would look corny.
Who caught the bouquet? Does anyone remember.
I think -- long time friend, Nancy Tuckerman.
Hugh, do you know if Jackie wanted Jack to run for the presidency?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I think she -- she was certainly very proud when he decided to and she certainly helped him campaign in speaking Spanish and French and Italian and all the different languages that one has to speak and helped him a great deal afterwards. Going back, talking about Jack's popularity and here -- talking about here in Newport. And people in Newport, the Irish-Catholic community, here the 5th ward, they got to know him pretty well when he was courting Jackie and he was standing up here and he was very popular in this town, which is a Democrat town.
KING: Yes.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: And also, among friends of my family at the beach and the country club and all that. And, Jackie, of course, was very popular here. Ever since she came here when she was 14-years- old. And, but the crowd around Saint Mary's Church really became unruly. And one photographer -- I was standing next to Jackie at the time with my father who at the last minute asked to lead Jackie down the aisle, and at some surprise. And a photographer came up with a long lens and put the lens almost into Jackie's face. And she got frightened and turned around and grabbed my arm. My left arm. With my right, my right arm, with my left arm, I pushed the camera back into the photographer's face, the lens. And I think probably gave him a black eye or a bloody nose. And...
KING: Still doing that today to photographers. Hugh, by the way, JFK was an usher at Hugh's wedding in 1958. And you Auchincloss served with the U.N. Delegation for the U.N. 18 general assembly with Adlai Stevenson.
Charles Bartlett's wife Martha became godmother to JFK, Jr., and Red Fay (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is a close friend and Undersecretary of the Navy.
Someone wanted to say something?
BARTLETT: I wanted say just that you asked about Jackie's enthusiasm for Jack's race for the presidency.
KING: Yes.
BARTLETT: A point I wanted to make, that was really part of the deal going in. I mean, the road sort of laid out and I think Jackie knew she was getting into a race for the presidency probably almost immediately. And, I think the point was that this became a great project which really bound them together and that -- the years leading up to 1960, why, they would spend many evenings, Georgetown in their house going through books, looking for quote that really became famous as Jack used them in the campaign. And research that they did at this point was really a big part of the campaign. And made Jack a much more dimensional figure on the stump.
When, at the convention down in Los Angeles when Jack was chosen as the Democratic nominee he selected Lyndon Johnson as a running mate and a little bit concerned. They had -- Joe Kennedy, Marian Davies said given her house to Joe Kennedy. And Jack was concerned about whether he'd taken the right person or not. And Bill Battle, who is also a P.T. boats with us, also ended up Jack's appointed him the ambassador to Australia. Bill Battle said, if you hadn't selected Lyndon Johnson, you wouldn't have been able to as a Catholic to get any of the southern vote. And he said, having Lyndon be the vice president of your administration is the one thing that's the best thing for you politically to have done.
KING: Lets get to the sad part. Hugh, where were you on November 22nd, 1963?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I was in the Middle East. As you mentioned, I was -- on Jack's delegation to the U.N. With Adlai Stevenson and Eleanor Roosevelt and a really wonderful group -- very great group of people. And, but my responsibility was in the Middle East. And I happen to have been in Beirut -- in Lebanon I think the night before. I just gotten back the night before the assassination and I was having lunch in New York with an old friend of mine, Benny Rudimere (ph), and some others when we heard the news. And I was sort of on jet lag and just hit me. It was a shock.
KING: Where were you, James?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: I was at Brooks School in North Andover. I was a junior and I had seen Jack the last time a month before at an old New England salute to President Kennedy at the armory in Boston. And, as I said good night to him that night, I had a strange feeling that something might happen, so I had been feeling rather low for a month. And I flew down to Washington and was told when I got to the airport that Carolyn and John were going to be at our house in Georgetown and I'd have dinner with them and had to pretend as if nothing happened. So, I played with them for about three hours with that dreadful knowledge.
KING: Wow. That night?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: That night.
KING: We'll come back and find where the others were on our remaining moments on this -- incredible how time goes by. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Marcia Kennedy Manning, where were you on November 22, 1963?
MANNING: I was an English teacher at Brandberry (ph) high school in Brandberry (ph), Massachusetts, and the French teacher came into the teacher's lounge and said the president was shot. And it was just so difficult to believe, and then it was really difficult to believe that he wasn't going to get better. You know, people get shot and they get medical attention and they get better, and it was very hard to believe. I noticed the flags were at half-mast, and all the stores had pictures of Kennedy with a black drape behind it. It was a very, very sad time in Massachusetts.
KING: Charles, where were you?
BARTLETT: I was banging on a typewriter in the national press building. I went to the church down on 10th Street. I said a few prayers and then went to Bobby's office. He cleared out of the Justice Department.
KING: How did you hear about it? Right on the machines, on the wires?
BARTLETT: It came over the radio.
KING: Now, do you think first as journalist or first as friend?
BARTLETT: I thought first as a friend. Dealing with Jack, I always thought first as a friend. That was one of the problems with having him in the White House, because I really regarded him as a friend, not as a news source.
KING: Paul, where were you, Red?
FAY: I was up at the Bramerton (ph), Washington. I had to go to a -- to tell the Navy yard there that if they didn't get things doing them -- if they weren't going to charge so much for all the work they're doing, it's going to be sent to a private shipyard. And some commander came up to me and said -- he said, Mr. Fay, the president's been shot. And I said, well, how bad is it? And he said, well, I know that John Connolly's in the operating room, and the president's not in there. And I thought, well, maybe Jack has been, you know, it -- wasn't -- he didn't get hurt. And then, to find out, when I came out of there to go to the television set there at the admiral's office and see that Jack has been killed. It just broke us up.
KING: Charles, how do you explain the fact that his popularity goes up every year? And when most Americans vote, he's at the top or next to the top of the list of American presidents? He only served three years.
BARTLETT: It is amazing, and it is amazing -- nothing of enormous significance was accomplished in that period. And it's charm, youth, the idea that -- something I felt, that he really would have been a great president. It was a great tragedy.
KING: And Hugh, your sister lived on with great class, did she not?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: She certainly did. She -- she had an amazing capacity to keep up her dignity even under extreme adversity.
KING: Raised two great kids, too.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Oh, yes. They followed in their parent's footsteps.
KING: James, did you know John, Jr. pretty well?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: I didn't see him for the last 20 or so years of his life. I knew him as a youth and I was closer in age to him than I was to Jackie. So I was sort of half-uncle, half-brother.
KING: We'll never forget either one of them, right, Red?
FAY: You're absolutely right.
KING: Thank you, Hugh Auchincloss, and James Lee, and Paul "Red" Fay, and Marcia Kennedy Manning and Charles Bartlett. The Kennedys were married on September 12, 1953.
Thank you for joining us. Thank our panel and good night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Thanks for joining us on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE, as we looked back at the life and times of the late Jack and Jackie Kennedy. We want to thank Paul "Red" Fay for his personal wedding footage, as well as the JFK library museum for supplying us with the photographs and videos that you've seen here tonight. This and more can be seen, by the way, at the library and museum special exhibit to celebrate the 50th wedding anniversary of the wedding of Jacqueline and John Kennedy. The exhibit runs through October 31. Go check it out if you're in Boston.
Stay tuned for more news around the clock on your most trusted name in news, CNN.
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Aired September 23, 2003 - 21:00 ET
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LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight: The 50th anniversary of the wedding of President John F. Kennedy and Jacqueline Bouvier, and you're cordially invited. Relive a historic ceremony, a lavish wedding reception. We'll do it with family and friends who were there: Jacqueline Kennedy's stepbrother, Hugh Auchincloss, and her half- brother, James Lee Auchincloss. The wedding reception was held at their family's Newport, Rhode Island, estate. Paul "Red" Fay, President Kennedy's best friend from their Navy's days and an usher from the wedding, where he took home movies. Charles Bartlett -- Jack and Jacqueline met at a small dinner party at his home in May of 1951. And Marcia Kennedy Manning, only 17 when JFK himself invited her to the wedding. An anniversary you won't want to miss, when JFK wed Jackie, and it's next on LARRY KING LIVE.
What an extraordinary show we have planned for you tonight on LARRY KING LIVE. We're going to look back at the wedding of John Kennedy and Jackie Bouvier Kennedy. That happened over 50 years ago, in September of 1953. They would have been married over 50 years.
Joining us in Newport, Rhode Island, is Hugh Auchincloss. He's the stepbrother of Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis. He was an usher, by the way, at that historic wedding. On the phone is his half-brother James Lee. James has a different father than you. They have the same mother, Janet. He was also a half-brother of you and was a page at that wedding. In San Francisco is Paul "Red" Fay -- there he is -- one of JFK's closest friends, was an usher at the wedding, took home movies of the event -- you'll see some of them here -- author of the bestselling book about JFK, "The Pleasure of His Company." Joining us in a while is Marcia Kennedy Manning. At 17, she attended the wedding with her parents -- not related to the Kennedys, though. And in Washington, one of the foremost journalists -- good to see him again -- Charles Bartlett. Jack and Jacqueline met at a small dinner party at his home in May of 1951. He was also an usher at that wedding.
Let's start with Charles. What do you remember about that dinner party and that meeting, Charles?
CHARLES BARTLETT, JFK MET JACKIE AT HIS HOME IN MAY, 1951: Well, I just remember that -- a very, very warm evening and a very, very hopeful beginning to a great romance. The senator -- he was not even then a senator, he was a congressman -- followed Jackie out to her car. And there, in the back of the car, was a beau of Jackie's who had seen her car and was waiting for her to come out. So Jack, who had helped to -- asked Jackie to come out and have a drink after dinner, was stymied. And Jackie had to sort of cover the scene in the back of her car. And that was the beginning.
KING: Did you arrange this dinner for the two of them to meet?
BARTLETT: We did. My wife arranged it. Martha put it together.
KING: And you thought they would hit it off?
BARTLETT: Yes. I think we both felt very strongly that they would hit it off. They had sort of the same glamour about them. They had -- there was something very special about -- very, very special about Jack and about her.
KING: Did you know at that time that he planned to run for the Senate?
BARTLETT: Yes. I think it was pretty evident.
KING: Yes. Because it was only a year before, right?
BARTLETT: I think it was very evident, yes.
KING: Hugh, what did Jackie tell you about meeting -- what did your stepsister tell you about meeting John Kennedy?
HUGH AUCHINCLOSS, JACQUELINE KENNEDY'S STEPBROTHER: Well, Jackie and I were living at our family's house in McLean, Virginia, Marywood (ph), and I was studying at the school of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) studies in Washington at the time, and she was an inquiring (ph) photographer. And we were both friends of Charlie and Martha Bartlett's and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we had several mutual friends in Washington.
And she asked me about -- she said, I met this very attractive congressman from Massachusetts. And we would love to have them out for -- for a swim at our pool and drinks and dinner. And she said, Well, I don't want you to get into any argument with him because you're conservative, he's a liberal. You went to Yale. I went to -- he went to Harvard. You went to Groton. He went to Choate. You were a marine. He's in the Navy. But you both -- but you both have something in common. You're great -- you're hero worshipers of George Washington, and you both have an interest in foreign policy. And so that's what sort of started the dinner party off.
KING: Did you like him right away, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I liked him very much. And we didn't -- we didn't argue, and we never have argued. We sometimes differed in our opinions, but the great thing about President Kennedy, he always asked questions and he was a great listener.
KING: Yes.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: And he respected everybody's -- anybody else's opinion, and he made you feel that you were the authority. And he's a very gracious person. And one thing Jackie always looked for in men was chivalry, grace and charm and courage and...
KING: He had all four.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: And he had all four.
KING: James Lee Auchincloss is with us on the phone. He's a half brother of Jackie's, as well, has the same mother as you. What do you remember about their meeting, James? What did she tell you or he tell you?
JAMES LEE AUCHINCLOSS, HALF-BROTHER OF JACQUELINE KENNEDY: Well, I had the same father as Hugh, and Jackie and I had the same mother. I was 6-and-a-half years old. And he came up to Newport a few weeks before the wedding, and he came in the front door as I was coming down this rather long red-carpeted staircase, a rather grand manor. And I said to him, Hello, Kennedy, because I had heard from some of my little conservative Republican friends that this was sort of an alien force invading our happy isle. And he replied in the same tone of voice. So that won me over very quickly.
And later that evening, much to the annoyance of the grown-ups, I challenged him to Chinese checkers, which I had never lost. And he played seven games with me, and he won all of them. And that impressed me so much that I took him aside as I was about to be taken up to bed, and I told him that seven years from then, he would be the first Catholic elected president.
KING: Oh!
J. AUCHINCLOSS: And it was a prediction that he remembered when he was president-elect. And we had a good time with my predicting powers.
KING: Let's turn to San Francisco, our old friend, Paul "Red" Fay, one of JFK's closest friends, Patient (UNINTELLIGIBLE) patriot of his, was an usher at the wedding, took home movies of the event, and was author of a terrific book years ago called "The Pleasure of His Company."
What do you remember about him meeting her, Paul?
PAUL "RED" FAY, JFK'S BEST FRIEND, USHER AT WEDDING: Well, I can remember that I got a letter from Jack, which I want to read part of it to you. "I gave everything a great deal of thought, so I'm getting married this fall. This means the end of a promising political career has been up to now almost completely on the old sex appeal. I hope you and the bride, which is my darling wife, will be able to come. The date is September the 12th, as I need you to come down the aisle with me. Your special project is the bride's mother -- one fine girl, but who has a tendency when excited to think I'm not good enough for her daughter and talked too much -- talked just too much. As I am both too young and too old for all this, will need several long talks on how to conduct yourself during the first six months, based on your actual real-life experience. Let me know the general reaction of this in the Bay area. Your buddy, Jack."
KING: Wow.
FAY: I love that.
KING: You were not best man though, right?
FAY: No, I was not. I was...
KING: George Smathers was, wasn't he?
FAY: No, I think Bobby. Bobby.
KING: Oh, Bobby was best man.
FAY: No, Bobby Kennedy was the best man.
KING: Did you like her right away, Red?
FAY: Yes, I did. I met her the -- you know, I came up to Hammersmith Farm and Jack introduced me to her. He had been at a Boston speech making during the campaign. And I met her, and I'll tell you, she had a certain sense of style and charm that I've never found in any other woman.
KING: We'll come right back with Paul. Let's turn to Marcia Kennedy Manning, not related to the Kennedys. And she attended the wedding with her parents. You were only 17 at the time. What -- your parents knew the Kennedys or the Bouviers?
MARCIA KENNEDY MANNING, ATTENDED WEDDING AT AGE 17: My father knew Ambassador Kennedy.
KING: What did you -- what do you remember about the wedding?
MANNING: Well, there was such excitement because the -- I'm from Boston and the Kennedys were well-known, and it was a Kennedy wedding until you got there and you saw Jacqueline. She had a great sense of style, as Mr. Fay said. Her dress was different. The bridesmaids' were different. There were crowds outside the church. The church was full. It was a small church, and there were, I think, 800 people at the wedding. It was just a very funny (ph) time.
KING: We'll be right back with our outstanding panel, as we look back on -- gee, John Kennedy would have been 86 years old. That marriage was over 50 years ago. Five people really involved with it. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Hugh, what kind of romance was it? It was not a whirlwind romance, was it?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: No. I believe it -- the way I saw it, it was a great respect for each other's intellect. They both loved history. Jackie also was a great artist. And they -- they're both very patriotic people, and great sense of duty. And I think that -- the combination -- the -- their interest in history brought them together. And then it -- they were both physically very attractive, very handsome and lovely. Jack was handsome and Jackie lovely. And so there was a physical attraction. But the -- I think the real love came after -- well, they had a great deal of sadness, death of a child, and then Caroline's birth and...
KING: So you think the love grew?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Oh, I think the love definitely grew. And I think it reached its peak -- well, it certainly reached its height the last year or two of the -- of their marriage, and I think especially after Jack -- after the Bay of Pigs and Jackie -- Jack Kennedy realized how much he needed Jackie, both in campaigning, and she could speak a lot of languages, but he needed her advice and her sort of comfort, especially after the Bay of Pigs. And that brought them together.
But I would like to say something about Red Fay. I came -- I was flying from San Francisco to New York, and I stopped at Red's house up in California, outside the San Francisco airport, for a drink. And he gave me a copy of his book, "The Pleasure of His Company." And people have sent me books they'd written about the Kennedys, Jackie and Jack Kennedy, this, that and the other thing, most of them with a lot of mistakes and exaggerations and innuendoes. But on the plane, I was reading Red's book, and sometimes I start to chuckle...
KING: Oh, boy!
H. AUCHINCLOSS: ... and then I -- I start to tears (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I'd weep. And the person sitting next to me couldn't figure out. I said, This is the best book that's ever been written or probably ever will be written about President Kennedy.
KING: I couldn't agree with you more. I remember when I first read it, when Paul came on my radio show years ago. It is still one of the great -- it's not a biography, it's one of the great...
H. AUCHINCLOSS: It's a wonderful story.
KING: ... memoirs, a great story with a lot of laughs and a lot of tears and a wonderful love affair between -- of two men that's not sexual, Paul Fay's admiration for his friend.
Charles, it has to be asked. Didn't reporters know that Jack Kennedy liked the ladies? And did that ever affect your writing?
BARTLETT: Well, I actually didn't -- wasn't affected by it at all. The -- jack's love of ladies was pretty well hidden, as far as the -- I don't think anybody in the press knew about it. I, frankly, if I were called upon to testify, would have to say that I knew nothing. And I would say it under oath. There was no -- it wasn't a sort of a sloppy kind of a thing, whatever he did.
KING: James, did you know about it?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, a 6-year-old brother-in-law, 16 when he died, he wasn't going to confide in me like that.
(LAUGHTER) KING: No. Are you surprised with what you've learned or not?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: Not -- not completely. Those were very different times, and there was a lot of sort of boasting going on. But I don't like hearing the things...
KING: No.
J. AUCHINCLOSS: ... but that was just what happened.
KING: Red, it didn't surprise you, did it?
FAY: Well, I can tell you, I think it's been oh, so exaggerated over the years. And Jack's love for Jackie was so outstanding and, you know, what she did for the White House, you know, bringing things up that hadn't ever been done before. And then there was one other thing that happened to Lafayette Park. And when Jack became president, why, they had a Boston architectural firm that was going to put a great big government building facing Lafayette Park, and Jackie just blew her cork on that and said, They can't do that. And so they hired John Warneke (ph), the architect, and Warneke, who happened to be on the Stanford football team when Jack was out at Stanford in the fall of 1940, when we won every single game, including the Rose Bowl -- but Warneke designed the houses that had been torn down and had them built back up again. And thank God because now Lafayette Park...
KING: Yes, but...
FAY: ... has the old houses, but the government building is facing 17th Street.
KING: Are you saying, Red, that all the stories you hear now are exaggerated?
FAY: You mean about Jack?
KING: Yes.
FAY: Yes, I think they're all exaggerated, to a great extent. I think people get a -- they think they can make some record for themselves by trying to bring something in that hasn't been -- ever been proven.
KING: But he did like women, did he not?
FAY: Well, I mean, we all like women. My God, if I didn't like women, I'd be out of my mind.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: We'll get back to more on the wedding.
Marcia, are you disturbed when you read the stories?
MANNING: Well, I think public individuals are entitled to private lives, and they were then, and I think it's unfortunate now. We don't need to know everything about everybody's lives, so -- I think it's distasteful.
KING: They must have been, Marcia, a great-looking couple to be around. I mean, they...
MANNING: They were.
KING: Because each was dazzling.
MANNING: He was tall and handsome and very, very personable. She was very young, 24, when she got married, and she was in her early 30s when she was at the White House. And it was just amazing that she was able to do so many things, being so young.
KING: Were you happy they got married, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Oh, I was delighted. And...
KING: Even though he was a Democrat?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I'm an independent, by the way. But a few -- some nights I spend -- I stay at the White House, and the usher would tell me, Oh, Mr. Auchincloss, the president says you're the only Republican staying here this evening -- tonight. So you have your usual room, which is President Lincoln's room, and I...
But go back on that other question. I've spent a lot of -- I've been in the same house with Jack Kennedy, sometimes with Jackie and sometimes without, including the White House. And I've read all these -- I've heard about these stories. I never saw Jack Kennedy flirt with another girl. I mean, he -- yes, he was always very charming, but I never -- these stories that go around, I think, are wishful thinking by some women after his death, when he couldn't contradict them, and they just exaggerated the story and it gets printed.
KING: Let me get right back with our panel and more on Jackie and Jack, one of the celebrated stories in American political history. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: What a guest list at that wedding. The invitations included two cards, a cream-colored card for admittance and another card announcing a reception. Invited guests, five U.S. senators, the Speaker of the House, 20 congressmen, Lady Astor, Pamela Churchill, later Pamela Harriman, Marion Davies, the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire, Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas, Adlai Stevenson, Alan Jay Lerner (ph), Alice Roosevelt Longworth. Pat and Richard Nixon were invited, had to decline because of a last-minute invitation from President Eisenhower. Seven hundred and fifty people at the church, twelve hundred at the reception.
Paul, all that for a congressman? FAY: It was absolutely amazing. But it's interesting, you know, we were talking about -- I was a Republican all the time I was undersecretary of the Navy, and actually, when I shared a room with Jack in 1946, when he first ran for Congress. But I was up at Camp David, and I said to the president, I said, Does it bother you having me be a Republican? Before he could answer, Jackie said, You stay a Republican. She felt -- I think she felt that having -- McNamara was a Republican and a few other people were Republicans who were in his administration. And as you know, that Jack played the middle of the road as much as anybody that had ever been president, as far as I know.
KING: Agreed. Charles, were you at the wedding
BARTLETT: I was. Yes.
KING: All right, what do you remember? How did they get a kind of guest list like that for a congressman?
BARTLETT: Well, I think, you know, Jack had been around a lot. He knew a lot of people. The Kennedys knew a lot of people, the Auchincloss -- it was a gathering of people who knew each other. And they all -- it was very splendiferous. I must say, the Auchincloss house in Newport was a great setting, the water nearby, gardens in full glow. It was a very beautiful wedding.
KING: Was it fun, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, it was a great deal of fun. Unfortunately, I wasn't feeling terribly well because I had been -- I had been a graduate student in Beirut, American University, and I -- afterwards, I had been hitchhiking through Syria and Iraq and Iran and gotten quite sick and lost a lot of weight. And so the wedding itself -- the church service itself was uncomfortable for me, but the reception was very pleasant -- a very beautiful reception.
KING: James, what do you remember about the reception and the wedding? You were so young.
J. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, it's my first cognitive memory, so almost...
KING: Really?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: ... like celebrating a birthday, I celebrate that as the beginning of memory. The first thing I remember, and the best thing, is the way I was dressed. I was part of sort of this splendiferous mosaic, so I was in black velvet shorts, a silk shirt, a lace chapeau and lace at my wrists, and I had high white cotton socks and black patent leather shoes. So I was really something out of "Gone With the Wind."
KING: You were adorable!
J. AUCHINCLOSS: Well, I was a little bit chubby, and I didn't enjoy having to kneel on a cold stone step as the pageboy. I carried her train at the wedding. And it was my first time in a Catholic church, and I didn't go back until the funeral of Patrick and then the funeral of the president. I was Episcopalian.
KING: Marcia, what do you remember at 17?
MANNING: I remember how beautiful Jackie was and how lovely her dress was. It was a different dress from what most brides wore. There wasn't any lace on it. It was a cream color, and she had appliques of fabric on it. And the bridesmaids had a very unusual color combination for the time. It was a shocking and a pale pink. And you had an idea then what her sense of style and fashion was. And it was nice to follow through and see that she was really a style setter, even at the age of 24.
KING: Hey, Red, was there a bachelor -- was there a bachelor party, Red?
FAY: There was a great bachelor party at the Clambake Club, which is priceless, and I think Hugh Auchincloss's father was picking up the tab for the dinner. And I sat next to Jack at the table. And since I had five sisters, he said, Now, Red, what's the experience? What do we do here? I said, What you do is, the first drink, you toast to your bride-to-be, and then you throw the glasses in the fireplace. And these were beautiful crystal glasses. And so we all drained it down, and then Jack -- I loved it! He said, I'm so moved by my darling wife-to-be that -- let's have another toast to the bride-to-be. And so everybody drinks it up again, and another 18 glasses go in the fireplace.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: What do you remember most about the wedding, Red?
FAY: Well, I think I remember that -- you know, Jackie's father could not come because I think he'd gotten involved in liquor the night before, and he -- so therefore, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) father took Jackie down the aisle. But I can remember that the crowds that were -- you know, outside the thing. And it's amazing enough that all of the pictures that were taken, there were very, very few moving pictures. I think my wife and I took most of the moving pictures.
KING: Yes, that's surprising because there -- they -- you don't see a lot of moving pictures of that wedding. Yours is one of the -- maybe only. There aren't many.
FAY: I think you're right.
KING: What -- where did they go on their honeymoon, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Acapulco.
KING: And when they got back, they settled in Washington?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: In Georgetown, yes.
KING: And did Jackie continue to do her photography? H. AUCHINCLOSS: The inquiring photographer. I -- I...
KING: She was the inquiring photographer, right?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Yes. I don't think she did, but I -- but Charlie would know more about that than I.
KING: Yes. Charlie, did she?
BARTLETT: No, I don't believe she did. I think she knocked it off.
KING: And what did she do?
BARTLETT: Well, That's a good question, but I honestly think that she -- I don't know. You know, being part of the Kennedy clan is not exactly restful, so I think she probably had plenty of people coming and going, trips. I don't -- you know, Jackie was very artistic, and she did a lot of drawing and writing. The arts were really -- drew her, drew her all the time.
KING: Was she accepted warmly by the Kennedys, Charles?
BARTLETT: Oh, I always thought so, yes. I think that -- I think Papa Kennedy, Joe Kennedy, I think, thought she was great. I -- I think the sisters sort of looked at her and made their own relationships. I don't know how close they became. But the -- it was warm.
KING: We'll take a break and come right back. He mentioned Papa Kennedy. We'll ask about his role in the wedding, Joe Kennedy, one of the formidable figures of the 20th century. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Looking back at the life and times of the late John and Jackie Kennedy. They were married in September of 1953. That's 50 -- over 50 years ago.
Our panelists are Hugh Auchincloss. He's in Newport Rhode Island, stepbrother of Jackie.
James Lee Auchincloss is on the phone, half brother of Jackie.
In San Francisco is Paul "Red" Fay, one of JFK's closest friends and usher at the wedding.
In Boston is Marcia Kennedy Manning. At 17, she attended the wedding with her parents, friends of the Kennedys.
And in Washington is the famed journalist Charles Bartlett. Jack and Jackie met at the small dinner party at his home in May of 1951. He was an usher at the wedding. And that, of course, a historic day. The meeting of what would become one of the great couple of the 20th Century.
Hugh, what was Joe Kennedy's involvement in the wedding?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I think he probably planned a great deal of it as far as the guest list from Massachusetts. And, I think he -- he certainly planned more than my stepmother did and -- or my father.
And...
KING: Because he was kind of a hands on person, wasn't he?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I think he was, yes. And I really -- I really didn't know him....
KING: You didn't? No?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: ...very well. And I didn't feel as close to him as I felt to Jack or Bobby.
KING: Red, was he a dominant figure at the wedding?
FAY: I think that his presence was so outstanding at the wedding. I know we have movies of Jack and -- I mean of Joe and Jack's mother, and I think that his presence there added so much to the character of the wedding. I mean, he is a dominant figure in almost everything he did. And in fact, I think one time when he was -- he was a head of the SEC, he was the head of the Security (UNINTELLIGIBLE), then the ambassador to Great Britain. And I think that he had aspirations of maybe one day being president maybe himself.
KING: Yes. Did -- by the way, Charles, Joe always wanted his -- one of his sons to be president, didn't he?
BARTLETT: Oh, I think so. The heat was on. I think Jack knew the race for the Senate was the beginning of a long race for the presidency.
KING: Because...
BARTLETT: I think Joe had -- Joe had the whole thing sort of in his mind and Jack was ready to go.
FAY: I want to cut in here.
KING: Sure.
FAY: I think one of the sad things was when young Joe was killed, Jack, I think his father had young Joe would have been the one he thought would be eventually a president of the United States. And I remember Jack saying to me he says -- he said, "Now the burden falls on me." I'm going to have to be -- carry the ball for my father.
J. AUCHINCLOSS: There was an interesting story about Joe who was always called the ambassador, was a title that was a little bit more fearsome than Mr. President. And he sent his wife, Rose, down to Hammersmith Farm and then to Bailey's Beach for a lunch with my mother and they went to the beach way overdressed and had this really rather difficult discussion about who was going to do what at the wedding and my mother stood up to all of the ambassador's demands. And Jack was tickled that my mother was one of the first people to really face him down.
One of his requirements was that there be a separate tent and that tent would have cigars and whiskey served to the working press. And there would be a lot of phone lines and typewriters put in there. And my mother insisted any member of the press that attended the wedding get the same invitation that anybody else had and that they be part of the wedding party and enjoy the same food and drinks as the rest. And if they really needed to make a telephone call, they could just use our phone.
And, as it turned out, she won that demand and the members of the press were absolutely delighted to be treated like human beings.
KING: The wedding was conducted -- the ceremony conducted by then Archbishop Richard Cushing, one of the famed names in American church circles, including -- a blessing by the pope. Kennedys had a little clout, Saint Mary's Church was decorated with pink (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and white mums. Jackie, we already explained, escorted down the aisle by her stepfather because her father was ill from the night before. Jackie and her father were very, very close.
Hugh has said that "Gone With The Wind" was one of the favorite films. Is that right, Hugh?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: That's correct. And I think Jack Bouvier who -- he had always a friend of mine from the first -- when Jackie became my stepsister in 1942 and she introduced me to her father and we became friends and I stayed friends with him until actually the week before he died, when I was having dinner with him in New York.
And, he was sort of a Clark Gable sort of figure.
KING: Yes.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: And swashbuckling. He was very handsome. Very gracious. And wonderful gentleman.
KING: The ushers at the wedding were the brother-in-law, Sarge Shriver, Jackie's stepbrothers, Michael Canfield, cousin Joe Gargan (ph), prep school friend Glen Billings -- boy, what names -- Red Fay of course, and Jim Reed. George Smathers, the senator from Florida, Jack -- one of Jack's close friends. College classmate Torbitt McDonald (ph) and Charles Bartlett, Chuck Spalding (ph) and Ben Smith. Gifts were presented at the bridal dinner.
What did you get, Paul?
FAY: What did I get? At the bridal dinner?
KING: For being an usher.
FAY: I -- You know, it slips my mind, but...
KING: Paul!
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Umbrella.
(CROSSTALK)
FAY: I think we did get umbrellas, now that I think of it.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Yes, with the initials. Our initials and Jack's initials and the date. On the band.
KING: Charles, do you remember your umbrella?
BARTLETT: No, I don't, Larry.
KING: Forgot your umbrella?
BARTLETT: Forgot it.
KING: Was -- Charles, was it a big story in the newspapers? Was it like front page of "The Washington Post"?
BARTLETT: I think it was front page of the "New York Times.' It hit hard.
KING: It's amazing we're talking about a Congressman and there are a lot of them.
BARTLETT: By this time, the Kennedy's had sort of accumulated an aura of glamour which followed them wherever they went. I think Jack had that.
KING: More on a moment with this panel on looking back 50 years ago. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: There were hordes of photographer at this wedding. Paul (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as we know, had the home movie camera and we are seeing some of that. Jackie would not pose clinking champagne glasses. She said it would look corny.
Who caught the bouquet? Does anyone remember.
I think -- long time friend, Nancy Tuckerman.
Hugh, do you know if Jackie wanted Jack to run for the presidency?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I think she -- she was certainly very proud when he decided to and she certainly helped him campaign in speaking Spanish and French and Italian and all the different languages that one has to speak and helped him a great deal afterwards. Going back, talking about Jack's popularity and here -- talking about here in Newport. And people in Newport, the Irish-Catholic community, here the 5th ward, they got to know him pretty well when he was courting Jackie and he was standing up here and he was very popular in this town, which is a Democrat town.
KING: Yes.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: And also, among friends of my family at the beach and the country club and all that. And, Jackie, of course, was very popular here. Ever since she came here when she was 14-years- old. And, but the crowd around Saint Mary's Church really became unruly. And one photographer -- I was standing next to Jackie at the time with my father who at the last minute asked to lead Jackie down the aisle, and at some surprise. And a photographer came up with a long lens and put the lens almost into Jackie's face. And she got frightened and turned around and grabbed my arm. My left arm. With my right, my right arm, with my left arm, I pushed the camera back into the photographer's face, the lens. And I think probably gave him a black eye or a bloody nose. And...
KING: Still doing that today to photographers. Hugh, by the way, JFK was an usher at Hugh's wedding in 1958. And you Auchincloss served with the U.N. Delegation for the U.N. 18 general assembly with Adlai Stevenson.
Charles Bartlett's wife Martha became godmother to JFK, Jr., and Red Fay (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is a close friend and Undersecretary of the Navy.
Someone wanted to say something?
BARTLETT: I wanted say just that you asked about Jackie's enthusiasm for Jack's race for the presidency.
KING: Yes.
BARTLETT: A point I wanted to make, that was really part of the deal going in. I mean, the road sort of laid out and I think Jackie knew she was getting into a race for the presidency probably almost immediately. And, I think the point was that this became a great project which really bound them together and that -- the years leading up to 1960, why, they would spend many evenings, Georgetown in their house going through books, looking for quote that really became famous as Jack used them in the campaign. And research that they did at this point was really a big part of the campaign. And made Jack a much more dimensional figure on the stump.
When, at the convention down in Los Angeles when Jack was chosen as the Democratic nominee he selected Lyndon Johnson as a running mate and a little bit concerned. They had -- Joe Kennedy, Marian Davies said given her house to Joe Kennedy. And Jack was concerned about whether he'd taken the right person or not. And Bill Battle, who is also a P.T. boats with us, also ended up Jack's appointed him the ambassador to Australia. Bill Battle said, if you hadn't selected Lyndon Johnson, you wouldn't have been able to as a Catholic to get any of the southern vote. And he said, having Lyndon be the vice president of your administration is the one thing that's the best thing for you politically to have done.
KING: Lets get to the sad part. Hugh, where were you on November 22nd, 1963?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: I was in the Middle East. As you mentioned, I was -- on Jack's delegation to the U.N. With Adlai Stevenson and Eleanor Roosevelt and a really wonderful group -- very great group of people. And, but my responsibility was in the Middle East. And I happen to have been in Beirut -- in Lebanon I think the night before. I just gotten back the night before the assassination and I was having lunch in New York with an old friend of mine, Benny Rudimere (ph), and some others when we heard the news. And I was sort of on jet lag and just hit me. It was a shock.
KING: Where were you, James?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: I was at Brooks School in North Andover. I was a junior and I had seen Jack the last time a month before at an old New England salute to President Kennedy at the armory in Boston. And, as I said good night to him that night, I had a strange feeling that something might happen, so I had been feeling rather low for a month. And I flew down to Washington and was told when I got to the airport that Carolyn and John were going to be at our house in Georgetown and I'd have dinner with them and had to pretend as if nothing happened. So, I played with them for about three hours with that dreadful knowledge.
KING: Wow. That night?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: That night.
KING: We'll come back and find where the others were on our remaining moments on this -- incredible how time goes by. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Marcia Kennedy Manning, where were you on November 22, 1963?
MANNING: I was an English teacher at Brandberry (ph) high school in Brandberry (ph), Massachusetts, and the French teacher came into the teacher's lounge and said the president was shot. And it was just so difficult to believe, and then it was really difficult to believe that he wasn't going to get better. You know, people get shot and they get medical attention and they get better, and it was very hard to believe. I noticed the flags were at half-mast, and all the stores had pictures of Kennedy with a black drape behind it. It was a very, very sad time in Massachusetts.
KING: Charles, where were you?
BARTLETT: I was banging on a typewriter in the national press building. I went to the church down on 10th Street. I said a few prayers and then went to Bobby's office. He cleared out of the Justice Department.
KING: How did you hear about it? Right on the machines, on the wires?
BARTLETT: It came over the radio.
KING: Now, do you think first as journalist or first as friend?
BARTLETT: I thought first as a friend. Dealing with Jack, I always thought first as a friend. That was one of the problems with having him in the White House, because I really regarded him as a friend, not as a news source.
KING: Paul, where were you, Red?
FAY: I was up at the Bramerton (ph), Washington. I had to go to a -- to tell the Navy yard there that if they didn't get things doing them -- if they weren't going to charge so much for all the work they're doing, it's going to be sent to a private shipyard. And some commander came up to me and said -- he said, Mr. Fay, the president's been shot. And I said, well, how bad is it? And he said, well, I know that John Connolly's in the operating room, and the president's not in there. And I thought, well, maybe Jack has been, you know, it -- wasn't -- he didn't get hurt. And then, to find out, when I came out of there to go to the television set there at the admiral's office and see that Jack has been killed. It just broke us up.
KING: Charles, how do you explain the fact that his popularity goes up every year? And when most Americans vote, he's at the top or next to the top of the list of American presidents? He only served three years.
BARTLETT: It is amazing, and it is amazing -- nothing of enormous significance was accomplished in that period. And it's charm, youth, the idea that -- something I felt, that he really would have been a great president. It was a great tragedy.
KING: And Hugh, your sister lived on with great class, did she not?
H. AUCHINCLOSS: She certainly did. She -- she had an amazing capacity to keep up her dignity even under extreme adversity.
KING: Raised two great kids, too.
H. AUCHINCLOSS: Oh, yes. They followed in their parent's footsteps.
KING: James, did you know John, Jr. pretty well?
J. AUCHINCLOSS: I didn't see him for the last 20 or so years of his life. I knew him as a youth and I was closer in age to him than I was to Jackie. So I was sort of half-uncle, half-brother.
KING: We'll never forget either one of them, right, Red?
FAY: You're absolutely right.
KING: Thank you, Hugh Auchincloss, and James Lee, and Paul "Red" Fay, and Marcia Kennedy Manning and Charles Bartlett. The Kennedys were married on September 12, 1953.
Thank you for joining us. Thank our panel and good night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Thanks for joining us on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE, as we looked back at the life and times of the late Jack and Jackie Kennedy. We want to thank Paul "Red" Fay for his personal wedding footage, as well as the JFK library museum for supplying us with the photographs and videos that you've seen here tonight. This and more can be seen, by the way, at the library and museum special exhibit to celebrate the 50th wedding anniversary of the wedding of Jacqueline and John Kennedy. The exhibit runs through October 31. Go check it out if you're in Boston.
Stay tuned for more news around the clock on your most trusted name in news, CNN.
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