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American Morning

Inside Guantanamo Bay

Aired September 25, 2003 - 07:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The Pentagon wants to know if it has a conspiracy on its hand. Two U.S. servicemen have been arrested on suspicion of spying at the base where al Qaeda suspects are being held. Two more are being watched very closely right now.
Air Force senior airman Ahmad al Halabi has been charged with espionage. His lawyer insists al Halabi is no spy. And Army Chaplain James Yee is being held on suspicion of spying and treason. He has not yet been charged.

Ted Conover, an author and writer for "The New York Times" magazine is with us now.

You interviewed Yee yearly this year, but you didn't quote him in your article and I wondered why.

TED CONOVER, "NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE: Well, he didn't answer my question. I said, you must have one of the hardest jobs down here. You represent the U.S. Army and Islam to men who have decided that we are against them and their religion. And yet, here you are saying I'm your chaplain, I will lead the prayer. Isn't that difficult? And he would say, "I perform my job to the very best of my abilities to try to satisfy my commanding officer." And he would not answer that question.

And I still don't...

COSTELLO: I know you talked to him for 40 minutes.

CONOVER: Yes.

COSTELLO: So, it's hard to really get to know a person in that short a time.

CONOVER: Sure.

COSTELLO: But you say he seemed like such a straight arrow to you.

CONOVER: He did. You know, he went to West Point. He's very meticulous in his habits. He's very much all business. He cracked one joke when we started out, said, oh, you're from "The New York Times." We had to read that every morning at West Point, so I have a bias against you. And I said, fine. I think we can move past it.

But he was very sort of shut down. He would not talk about himself. He was not expansive. COSTELLO: So, when you heard of these charges, your first thought was?

CONOVER: I was flabbergasted, because he seems such a military man and such a patriot. He was telling me how Islam does not permit acts of violence like these, that people who commit them should be punished.

COSTELLO: On the other hand...

CONOVER: Yes, yes.

COSTELLO: On the other hand...

CONOVER: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... he used to be Lutheran. He converted to Islam. He spent time in Syria. He married a Muslim woman. I mean, shouldn't red flags have gone up in military personnel that this man -- I don't know -- might have gotten closer to the prisoners because of his background?

CONOVER: I think it would be hard to be a Muslim in this country and not have ties to Arab or Muslim countries. I think it's going to be impossible to find Muslim chaplains who are totally American, you know? This is a giant global religion, and people have friends and relatives outside the country.

I think the more interesting question here is how you can put somebody in this extremely difficult place, as the middleman between the combatants and the military, and how you can make them -- have them work at a prison and keep them from developing excessive sympathies toward the prisoners, because they are these guys' window to the world. The prisoners depend on them, and they're both devout, aren't they? The chaplain is a devout Muslim. The only other people on Cuba are these guys right in the cages 100 yards away.

COSTELLO: And a weird thing happens when guards and prisoners, or a chaplain and a prisoner spend so much time together. Some weird psychology happens when you really do establish a connection.

CONOVER: Well, yes. You know, I worked at Sing Sing for almost a year, and I noticed there are the officers who treat the prisoners sort of like sub-human. They're in the minority. There is another kind of officer who insists that these are humans who have kind of gone astray. And I would think that if you were Islamic and worked at Guantanamo and saw the harshness of the conditions there, you might incline more toward that second position and think, you know, maybe some of these are good guys. Something went wrong. I don't know...

COSTELLO: Yes.

CONOVER: ... but I think it would be hard not to develop a human connection with them.

COSTELLO: Well, if these allegations are true, I don't think many Americans will understand that sentiment. But thank you for making it a little clearer for us this morning. Ted Conover, thanks for joining us.

CONOVER: Thanks, Carol.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired September 25, 2003 - 07:40   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The Pentagon wants to know if it has a conspiracy on its hand. Two U.S. servicemen have been arrested on suspicion of spying at the base where al Qaeda suspects are being held. Two more are being watched very closely right now.
Air Force senior airman Ahmad al Halabi has been charged with espionage. His lawyer insists al Halabi is no spy. And Army Chaplain James Yee is being held on suspicion of spying and treason. He has not yet been charged.

Ted Conover, an author and writer for "The New York Times" magazine is with us now.

You interviewed Yee yearly this year, but you didn't quote him in your article and I wondered why.

TED CONOVER, "NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE: Well, he didn't answer my question. I said, you must have one of the hardest jobs down here. You represent the U.S. Army and Islam to men who have decided that we are against them and their religion. And yet, here you are saying I'm your chaplain, I will lead the prayer. Isn't that difficult? And he would say, "I perform my job to the very best of my abilities to try to satisfy my commanding officer." And he would not answer that question.

And I still don't...

COSTELLO: I know you talked to him for 40 minutes.

CONOVER: Yes.

COSTELLO: So, it's hard to really get to know a person in that short a time.

CONOVER: Sure.

COSTELLO: But you say he seemed like such a straight arrow to you.

CONOVER: He did. You know, he went to West Point. He's very meticulous in his habits. He's very much all business. He cracked one joke when we started out, said, oh, you're from "The New York Times." We had to read that every morning at West Point, so I have a bias against you. And I said, fine. I think we can move past it.

But he was very sort of shut down. He would not talk about himself. He was not expansive. COSTELLO: So, when you heard of these charges, your first thought was?

CONOVER: I was flabbergasted, because he seems such a military man and such a patriot. He was telling me how Islam does not permit acts of violence like these, that people who commit them should be punished.

COSTELLO: On the other hand...

CONOVER: Yes, yes.

COSTELLO: On the other hand...

CONOVER: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... he used to be Lutheran. He converted to Islam. He spent time in Syria. He married a Muslim woman. I mean, shouldn't red flags have gone up in military personnel that this man -- I don't know -- might have gotten closer to the prisoners because of his background?

CONOVER: I think it would be hard to be a Muslim in this country and not have ties to Arab or Muslim countries. I think it's going to be impossible to find Muslim chaplains who are totally American, you know? This is a giant global religion, and people have friends and relatives outside the country.

I think the more interesting question here is how you can put somebody in this extremely difficult place, as the middleman between the combatants and the military, and how you can make them -- have them work at a prison and keep them from developing excessive sympathies toward the prisoners, because they are these guys' window to the world. The prisoners depend on them, and they're both devout, aren't they? The chaplain is a devout Muslim. The only other people on Cuba are these guys right in the cages 100 yards away.

COSTELLO: And a weird thing happens when guards and prisoners, or a chaplain and a prisoner spend so much time together. Some weird psychology happens when you really do establish a connection.

CONOVER: Well, yes. You know, I worked at Sing Sing for almost a year, and I noticed there are the officers who treat the prisoners sort of like sub-human. They're in the minority. There is another kind of officer who insists that these are humans who have kind of gone astray. And I would think that if you were Islamic and worked at Guantanamo and saw the harshness of the conditions there, you might incline more toward that second position and think, you know, maybe some of these are good guys. Something went wrong. I don't know...

COSTELLO: Yes.

CONOVER: ... but I think it would be hard not to develop a human connection with them.

COSTELLO: Well, if these allegations are true, I don't think many Americans will understand that sentiment. But thank you for making it a little clearer for us this morning. Ted Conover, thanks for joining us.

CONOVER: Thanks, Carol.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.