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CNN Larry King Live
Interview with Arianna Huffington; Guest Panel Discusses British Royalty
Aired September 30, 2003 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight the royal wildcard has just turned 19. Is Prince Harry still raising hell?
Is he fit for the army or the throne?
We are going to ask royals watcher Robert Lacey the author, "Monarch."
Also in London, Hugo Vickers and other best selling royals biographer, Dickie Arbiter, the queens former press secretary.
And Harold Brooks-Baker, director of Burke's Peerage.
But first, exclusive. Is Arianna Huffington in or out of the California recall race? We'll get the scoop right here right now on LARRY KING LIVE.
OK. We won't dilly-dally. What are you going to do, independent candidate California gubernatorial race, syndicated columnist, author, Arianna Huffington? The election is a week from -- a week off -- a week from today.
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON: I'm pulling out and I am going to concentrate every ounce of time and energy over the next week working to defeat the recall, because I've realized that that's the only way now to defeat Arnold Schwarzenegger.
KING: So that's your purpose?
HUFFINGTON: That's my purpose. My purpose is...
KING: Because you were in favor of the recall?
HUFFINGTON: I was against the recall on principle. I've always believed that this is not the way to run a democracy. But I saw the opportunity provided to elect with a simple plurality an independent, progressive governor. Now that this is clear this is not going to happen, I believe that there's a clear and present danger, Larry, when it comes to the Pete Wilson Republican forces using Schwarzenegger, really, to get back in control of the state, because Arnold Schwarzenegger is a charming man. He's a nice man, but really, he has no idea how to run a state, and he is going to be run by the very forces that basically have destroyed so much of California. The very forces that really brought us the energy deregulation, the workers comp deregulation.
KING: The Wilson forces?
HUFFINGTON: The Wilson forces.
KING: Why not then endorse Bustamante?
HUFFINGTON: Because right now I believe that what I brought to this campaign is all the emphasis on the power of the special interest money to distort our policy priorities, and I want to make sure that even all the people who supported me, who were with me all the way and who cared just as much about the corruption of money in politics, I want them to realize that right now there's a greater danger. And that's the danger that can only be averted by voting no on the recall, and that's the danger of the Republicans who brought us all the things that I mentioned before, who are connected to the Bush Republicans in Washington, hijacking the state.
KING: All right. Who -- you will vote no on recall then. Are you going to vote for anyone for governor?
HUFFINGTON: Yes, I will. And I'm asking all my supporters to vote strategically, but to make the decision...
KING: Strategically how?
HUFFINGTON: ... just before the election. We'll know what happens. Because, you know what, Larry? This election is still very fluid, and a lot is going to change, and the highest priority right now is to get people who are independent, because they're the people I'm appealing to, to realize that Arnold Schwarzenegger is not an independent.
KING: So you're telling your voters to vote against recall...
HUFFINGTON: Right.
KING: And then do what?
HUFFINGTON: And then basically decide nearer the election whether it's best for them to vote for Bustamante, or what they want to do. But they don't have to decide that yet, because a lot is going to change between now and then...
KING: What's going to...
HUFFINGTON: And right now, remember, I understand why independents are drawn to Schwarzenegger, because they're fed up with the current system.
KING: And he's a moderate Republican.
HUFFINGTON: He's not a moderate Republican.
KING: He's not a moderate Republican? HUFFINGTON: He's a moderate on social issues, but the social issues are not really the key issues right now. The key issue in California is the budget, and Schwarzenegger has offered no proposals to balance the budget. He has said there will be no tax increases, he has said that there will be a balanced budget. Therefore, there has to be spending cuts, and you know what, Larry? The spending cuts are going to come out of programs that are going to basically hurting the millions of Californians who are already struggling. I have a sense of a deja vu. That's really what my sense of foreboding is...
KING: All over again?
HUFFINGTON: All over again. You know, in 2000, remember, we were promised a different kind of a Republican. George Bush. A compassionate conservative, who spoke a little Spanish, who liked minorities, who would be different. And then we woke up with a nightmare of a warmonger who took a $500 billion surplus and turned it into a $500 billion deficit, millions of jobs lost. And I predict, and I want to go up and down the state the next week, letting people know that if we elect Schwarzenegger, we are going to wake up to the same nightmare.
KING: But if you vote against recall, you want Gray Davis to remain as governor?
HUFFINGTON: Well, that's what it means. And you know what? I haven't really said a lot of nice things about Gray Davis.
KING: No, you haven't.
HUFFINGTON: But that's not the point right now. Right now...
KING: You mean it's more important that he remain as governor?
HUFFINGTON: It's more important that he remains as governor. He's learned a lot of lessons, and most important, the next time there's an election, we can actually put center stage these issues of money in politics. I already have filed an initiative to clean elections in California, clean money initiative. People can go to vote, Arianna.com. We'll change the name tomorrow, and be able to get involved in collecting the signatures and putting it on the ballot. There is a lot we can do, but we won't be able to do any of that if the Republicans use this recall to come back in power and do in Sacramento what they have done in Washington.
KING: Mr. Schwarzenegger went up right after the debate. In retrospect -- you were pretty tough in that debate -- do you think you helped him?
HUFFINGTON: Oh, of course not. He went up after...
KING: Why did he go up?
HUFFINGTON: He went up because he's been doing wall-to-wall advertising.
KING: You don't think it was the debate?
HUFFINGTON: No. I don't think it's the debate at all. I think it was the fact that he turned up for the debate and he didn't slur his words. You know, he's a smart man. That's not the problem. He hurt himself with women. There's no question about that. As I've been going up and down the state, his comments, his condescension really hurt him with women. He already has a large gender gap. It's going to get larger in the next week, because we're going to talk about the fact that even though he did his Oprah strategy and talked about women, the truth is, there isn't a single woman on his economic team. There are thousands of successful, brilliant women in California. Couldn't he find one to put on the economic team?
KING: Is it true you told the Green Party candidate you were thinking of doing this, and he told you not to do it?
HUFFINGTON: Well, a lot of people had told me not to do it. A lot of my supporters are people who believe that we could change the system. And I know we can. We planted a lot of seeds.
We actually brought back a lot of disaffected voters. That is the hardest thing for me, Larry, you know, to see people on the campaign trail who would say to me, I haven't voted for 20 years, I'm going to vote for you, or I just registered for the first time. So I am telling all of them, I know how you feel, I know how deeply you long to change the system. I will keep working for the rest of my life to change the system, but right now, there's a clear danger and we cannot pretend it's not there.
KING: So when you say vote strategically and you say don't vote for me because I'm out of the race...
HUFFINGTON: Right.
KING: You're saying Bustamante -- unless you're saying vote for McClintock? Are you saying that, too? What are you saying? Strategically, what?
HUFFINGTON: What I'm saying is that I want people to vote their conscience, but make sure that whatever their vote is, it does not put Schwarzenegger in the state house. I don't think it's difficult for people to decide that. And what I'm saying above all is don't decide right now. There's a whole week ahead, and a lot is going to change. The polls right now are meaningless. I think you guys at CNN would have a lot of explaining to do about your poll, it will be an embarrassment on October 8, I don't think the result will be anything like what the poll said.
KING: You think the recall can be defeated?
HUFFINGTON: Absolutely, the recall can be defeated. And unfortunately, the polls make people feel discouraged. And that's one of my main problems with polls. So I want people to work very hard to make sure the recall is defeated.
KING: Couple of other things. Wouldn't Bustamante represent a lot of your feelings, a lot of your political feelings, in areas both social and otherwise?
HUFFINGTON: Absolutely. I think Bustamante also did a very good thing on Sunday. He endorsed my initiative for clean elections. I thought that was really very generous.
KING: So why not ask your people to vote for him?
HUFFINGTON: I may do that. All I'm saying is that right now, I have made already a lot of important decisions. If you go to our Web site, you'll three no's and one yes. No on the recall. No on Schwarzenegger. No on Prop 54. Yes on the clean money initiative. That's a lot for one day. We have a week ahead. It's going to be a very intense week of campaigning, and by the end of the week, we'll know much more of where we are than we do today.
KING: So you're going to go up and down the state now, urging against recall?
HUFFINGTON: Right. And against Schwarzenegger, and basically, opening people's eyes to who Schwarzenegger truly is. You know, he entered the race saying he's going to be an independent, and surrounded himself with Pete Wilson operatives. He entered the race saying he's going to take no special interest money, and has taken millions from developers, from agribusiness, from a guy in Montana who has been accused of spoiling the environment.
KING: Why do you think he's doing so well, then?
HUFFINGTON: Because there is that longing, Larry, for something different, for somebody who's an outsider. People know the system is broken.
KING: So you understand that?
HUFFINGTON: I understand the longing. But that's why I'm going to talk to the people who have the longing that I share. And tell them wake up, this is a wake-up call.
KING: Thank you, Arianna.
HUFFINGTON: Thank you.
KING: Out in the hustings, Arianna Huffington leaves the race tonight and urges to vote no on recall, and says wait before you decide after you vote no who to vote for. But you don't have to vote for her.
When we come back, the royals. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We always like to get caught up with the doings of the royals. In London is Robert Lacey, best-selling author and veteran royal watcher. His book, "Great Tales From English History: The Truth About King Arthur, Lady Godiva, Richard the Lionhearted and More," is due for release in the United States next summer, and his book, "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II," is out in trade paperback. Here in Los Angeles, back in the States again, is Dickie Arbiter, former spokesman for Buckingham Palace, former press officer for the queen and the prince and princess of Wales. In London is Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of the distinguished "Burke's Peerage." And also in London is Hugo Vickers, best-selling biographer, veteran royal watcher. His books include "Alice: Princess Andrew of Greece," a biography of Prince Philip's mother.
All the news lately is about Prince Harry turning 19 and getting a lot of criticism from the press. Deserved, Robert?
ROBERT LACEY, AUTHOR, "MONARCH": I'm not sure whether we should be criticizing Harry or his advisers out in Australia. What the fuss about is the fact that, having gone out there to be a jackaroo, we're told, which is -- well, I'm not quite sure what a jackaroo is -- I don't know if you know, Larry -- but working on a ranch or a homestead in Australia. His people have complained that he's getting too much press attention.
I myself actually don't have much sympathy with this. It seems to me that his life as a prince is not to be spent on horseback, herding sheep but actually dealing with the press. And if he can't deal with the press, then we've got a problem on our hands.
KING: Dickie, the tabloids respond to Harry's complaints about branding him a "bleeding whiner," as they've called him. "The Daily Star" called him a "lazy loafer." "The Daily Mail" has said he's "pathetic," "a jackass." What -- well, we might ask this -- who cares? He's 19 years old.
DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO THE QUEEN: Yes. Who cares? He's 19 years old. I think the papers have actually got it wrong. And quite frankly, as you say, he is 19 years old. He's gone out to Australia to this cattle station in the middle of Queensland. Quite frankly, I slight disagree with Robert there. I think the advisers did get it wrong because there was a press facility, a photo call in Sidney when he arrived, and they kept the location of the cattle station a secret, Tulumbila (ph). And you cannot keep a secret these days. Somebody is going to let it out somewhere along the line.
They should have done a press facility up there. Then everybody would have gone away happy. But instead, they didn't. Everybody crowded around because they wanted that picture of him in the bush. And I don't think they got it.
KING: By the way, we'll be going to calls at the bottom of the hour. Any questions about all the doings of the royals.
What do you make of the Australia story and young Harry, Harold?
HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, PUB. DIR., "BURKE'S PEERAGE": Well, I think that it's another case of a spare, a young Prince waiting to find out what he should really be doing because there is no legitimate place for him, historically speaking, and he'll just have to sit around, waiting to see if he's called. One hopes that it never will be the case, that his brother will be king. But Harry, on the other hand has shown, I think, a lot of intestinal fortitude by meeting his responsibilities as best as he can. He's going -- during this gap year, he's going to try lots of things and see what he likes the most and probably will turn out to be a very able person in the military. I mean, that's what he's headed for. He is not a scholastic. He's not brilliant, but he is intelligent.
KING: Hugo Vickers, is he kind of in never-never-land, the younger brother who -- who what?
(LAUGHTER)
HUGO VICKERS, AUTHOR, "ALICE: PRINCESS ANDREW OF GREECE": Well, never--land--never-- I mean, he's -- there he is, he's the younger brother. Now, sometimes, in a sense, that can be quite a nice role because the main responsibility isn't on you. And then I have great sympathy for him, as far as the press are concerned, because the press are pretty beastly to all the royal family these days.
It's quite traditional for youngsters in this country to go out to Australia. It's very important that we should send one of our princes out. After all, Australia is still part of the British -- the commonwealth and there are very strong links between the two countries. Prince Charles very much enjoyed his time out there. I think that did him a lot of good. And I have a feeling, actually, that the press will soon get bored of flying over his cattle ranch and will leave him alone, and hopefully, he'll have a good time and come back a better fellow for it.
KING: Robert, what about the reports that say he's still too immature?
LACEY: Well, that, I think, is unfair on a kid who's only 19, who lost his mother in the tragic circumstances we all know about. I think there's a lot of double standards in all this reporting on Harry. I think William gets talked up as probably being much better than he actually is. And I think when it comes to Harry -- we've been talking a lot about this younger brother syndrome -- it's people want him to be a scapegoat. People want him to get the bad headlines. And of course, there's always the risk that he may be tempted to play up to that. But I must say, I don't think that's the case so far.
KING: They compare them, though, don't they, naturally, Dickie.
ARBITER: Yes, they do. Robert's got it spot on. They're playing...
KING: Got it what?
ARBITER: Pardon?
KING: What has he got?
ARBITER: He's got it spot on.
KING: Spot on?
ARBITER: Yes, spot on.
KING: Right on.
(LAUGHTER)
ARBITER: No, he has got it right on because, quite frankly, they're trying to play one off against the other. Harry is not over- endowed with brains. I mean, he didn't get high grades in his final exams. But then, you know, exams are not the be-all and end-all at school because he has shown aptitude for the military. We've seen him there in the cadet force at Eaton, and I think he's going to be very good in the army. And meanwhile, let's leave him alone. Let him enjoy himself in Australia. After all, the queen is queen of Australia, so it is a realm. And they quite like the idea of having him out there.
KING: Are there some criticisms, Harold, by the Australians about spending money on this?
BROOKS-BAKER: There seems to be relatively little, compared to the criticism of the past. Certainly, Australia seems to have forgotten the idea of republicanism and is now giving, I think, almost complete support to the idea of backing the queen. So far, so good. But remember that this young man is a person, no matter how well he does in the military -- and I'm sure he'll do very well indeed -- without a real place. He will never have the kind of job that will be able to consume his every waking hour. He is simply like the vice president of the United States used to be, somebody waiting to hear about the health of his brother.
KING: And Hugo, how long does he stay in Australia?
VICKERS: Well, he's going to be there for his -- most of his gap year. There has been talk, of course, about bringing him home on account of all this press publicity, but I hope very much that that doesn't happen. As I say, I'm sure he'll just settle in. There is some talk about him having a two-year gap, which is quite unusual. It's quite normal for people to go off for a year and find their feet in another country and do lots of different things. But you know, then he will go to Sandhurst, by the sound of it.
KING: We're going to take a break and come back. We'll be going to your calls shortly. As you can tell, this panel is sure spot on. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: In October, Prince Charles is expected to visit India. Is Camilla Parker Bowles going to escort him, Robert?
LACEY: Well, I have no inside knowledge on that, but I would have thought there is quite a chance that he will. Camilla remains a source of controversy in this country, the fact that she's now moved in with Prince Charles to his new home, the queen mother's old home on the mall by Buckingham Palace, Clarence House. The fact that taxpayers' money was spent on this I don't think would normally have been controversial, but people don't like subsidizing someone they see as responsible for the break-up of the dream marriage.
Another question we wonder about in the future is whether Prince Charles is going to be in this country when Mr. Bush comes to visit in November on his state visit because Prince Charles is definitely a private critic, very severe, of Mr. Bush and the war, and he may just...
KING: Oh, he is?
LACEY: ... choose not to be present for all the ceremonies.
KING: What will it mean if Camilla goes with him? Will there be implications in that, Dickie?
ARBITER: Yes, I don't -- I don't think she will be going with him because you go tot remember that the prince of Wales will be going to India on behalf of the British government. So his trip is paid for by the government, by the Foreign Office, and, at the end of the day, by the taxpayer. So I don't think she will be going unless he pays for her to go, but she certainly wouldn't accompany him on any of the official engagements.
KING: Did you know that he was opposed to the war in Iraq?
ARBITER: Well, he's made his views known privately, but I think he will be in the country because he is heir to the throne and he is there to support the queen, and it is his duty to be there.
KING: Harold, are they going to get married?
BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, I don't think there's any question about it. They will eventually be married, but whether it's tomorrow or a year from tomorrow is impossible to say right now. It is perfectly obvious that she is with him constantly. They share the same house, as Robert said. They are considered a couple already, and everything except marriage has been handed to them. I think it's a question of a very short time, but the prince of Wales will wish to see, as indeed the queen will wish to see, that everything is OK, that there is no great problem from a PR point of view. And PR is the game right now.
KING: So it's not it, but when.
ARBITER: I wouldn't hold your breath on the marriage, quite frankly.
KING: No?
ARBITER: No. I'm not of the view that they will get married.
KING: Now about Prince William, before we break and go to calls. Hugo, apparently, he was slammed by animal rights campaigners. He speared a small antelope? Is that true? And has he borne the wrath of it? VICKERS: Well, unfortunately, whenever members of the royal family get involved in anything like that, they naturally come up against the people who dislike this sort of thing. It's the same as, occasionally, when they go hunting or whatever. But that is another drama which seems to have died down.
But if I could just revert to that Camilla and India and Prince Charles and President Bush thing -- I mean, Dickie's absolutely right. Prince Charles must support the queen. If the British government wants President Bush to come on a state visit, the queen will be his host, and Prince Charles must be there to support her.
But let us not forget that when the president of China came, he refused to go to the state banquet given by the president as his return banquet, which I thought was very unfortunate because if he had suddenly become king shortly afterwards and if the government had wanted him to pay a state visit to China, it might have made things rather difficult. So whatever his private views are, unfortunately, as living in the world of a constitutional monarchy, he has to rather just bite his lip and turn up and make a good show for the guest of his country.
KING: And will William turn up, too, Dickie?
ARBITER: No. He's not -- he's not in the frame on these sort of things. He...
KING: He doesn't have to be there.
ARBITER: No, he doesn't have to be there. None of the kids have to be there. It is there for the sort of older generation. Hugo is absolutely right that the prince of Wales didn't turn up to the return banquet given by the Chinese president, but he was there for the Buckingham Palace banquet. He has to be there.
KING: We'll take a break and come back and go to your phone calls. We'll reintroduce our panel, as well. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back. I'll reintroduce the panel, then go to your calls. In London, Robert Lacey. We're looking forward to his new book next summer, "Great Tales From English History. In Los Angeles is Dickie Arbiter, the former spokesperson for Buckingham Palace. In London is Harold Brooks-Baker, publishing director of "Burke's Peerage." And also in London, Hugo Vickers, the best-selling biographer and veteran royal watcher. His books include, "Alice: Princess Andrew of Greece."
To your calls. Liberty Town, Maryland. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CLINTON: Thank you for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: I was wondering if the reason that Harry may be a little bit rebellious might be because of the vulnerable age that he was when his mother died?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: That's a very good question. People close to the family have come to that very same conclusion. Though, oddly, at the time, it seems, in 1997, when Diana died, on the surface, Harry, little boy still -- I mean, physically a very little boy, if one remembers those pictures of him walking down the mall behind his mother's coffin -- he seemed to take it much more evenly, whereas William was the one who right up until the night before the funeral wasn't sure if he wanted to walk in the funeral procession. But I'm sure psychoanalysts in the future will have a field day working out the impact of all of that on the kids.
KING: Kingston, New York. Hello.
CALLER: Yes. When I lived in England, I observed firsthand how hard the royals work for the various allowances. Does the panel believe that the majority of British people appreciate the excellent value for money they're getting from their royals? And by the way, Prince Charles is a brilliant visionary.
KING: Dickie, do they?
ARBITER: I think they do get value for money. All you've got to do is look at the crowds that turned out last year at the queen's golden jubilee and that long weekend in June.
KING: It's all PR, isn't it?
ARBITER: Yes. Yes, but life is PR, isn't it. But really, they turned out. There were a million people around Buckingham Palace on the Monday and a million people on Tuesday, and that is a lot of people. You couldn't move for people. They were waving flags. They enjoyed the singing. Now, there are cynics who say, Well, they would have been there anyway because it was a party. But they weren't dragged there kicking and screaming. They went there because they wanted to be there. And then they stood outside Buckingham Palace and the band played the national anthem, and they sang it. Yes, they do get value for money.
KING: Harold, do you share that view?
BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, I certainly do share that the view, and I'm sure that Kitty Kelley, if she were with us, would agree. The royal family is very generous. The queen gives approximately 100 million pounds a year to the chancellor of the exchequer from the crown lands. She is the only head of state in the world who pays handsomely for having a job that nobody else in his right mind would wish to have.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Kalamazoo, Michigan. Hello.
CALLER: Hello, Mr. King.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: Thank you for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: I particularly enjoyed Mr. Lacey's book, "Monarch." And my question tonight regards the line of succession throughout British history. It has gone through the female. Now, traditionally, it goes through the male. What effect, if any, assuming Prince Charles becomes king, would it have had if his children had been female instead of male?
KING: Robert? Just conjecture.
LACEY: Well, the rule at the moment is that the male comes first and male succession dominates. We've had great monarchs, like Elizabeth I and Queen Victoria because there have been no males senior to them. But there is talk, in the future, that maybe that will be changed and it'll be the first child out, male or female, who gets the succession. The answer to your question about Prince Charles's children -- if he had had, say, first a daughter and then a son, then the younger child, the son, would, in fact, have inherited over the daughter.
ARBITER: And then, of course, we've got to add to that, Larry -- George the VI, the queen's father, had two daughters. So that answers the question, the line of succession.
KING: Hugo, what makes a great monarch?
VICKERS: Well, I think that a sort of inner strength of character is very important. We talked a little bit about working within the frame work of a constitutional monarchy. I think that the great thing about our queen, who I believe very firmly is one of the great monarchs, is the fact that she is very happy doing her job. She knows the limitations and the constrictions, and she works within them. And she's very wise, and she has taken the trouble to remain consistently extremely well informed about everything. She's a very, very good ambassador for our country. She's extremely good with visiting heads of state.
I mean, she will be the person -- she will spend more time with George Bush when he's over here than Mr. Blair will. I mean, he will be staying with the queen, and they will spend a lot of time together. She has very, very good, quiet influence behind the scenes. And that is, I think, one of the qualities of a great monarch.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS-BAKER: ... to interfere a bit. KING: McAllen, Texas. Hello.
CALLER: Do you see a parallel in the way the press pursued Diana and the way the press is now pursuing Harry?
KING: Do you see that, Dickie?
ARBITER: That's a difficult question to answer. It's quite an interesting question.
KING: It is.
ARBITER: They pursued Diana in the initial stages, when she and the prince of Wales got married, because she was a very beautiful woman and it was the first big marriage since the princess royal married in 1973. And she was captivating. But they continued pursuing her, and we know what happened in 1997. You know, we lay the blame at the door of the press, but it wasn't just that. There was an accident. It was an accident that shouldn't have happened, but it did happen.
Pursuing Harry -- I don't think they're pursuing Harry. Quite frankly, what the Australians wanted -- they got their picture in Sidney. They wanted a picture of him working, and now they've probably gone away and that's the end of it. I don't think they're pursuing in the same way as they pursued Diana.
KING: Memphis. Hello.
CALLER: Hello?
KING: Yes? Go ahead.
CALLER: I was just wondering, since we've touched on Prince Harry possibly making a career of himself in the army, do we know of, as far as what possibly Prince William will be doing, as far as career-wise or what -- while he's waiting to be king?
KING: Do we know, Robert?
LACEY: Well, again, the bets are, strangely, that he also will go in the army. That seems to be the safe option, the option he'd like. Both boys have a great influence -- great interest in that area -- strangely, in view of their mother's rather well-known pacifism. It's a really challenge for William, and I don't know the answer because he could well be in his late 40s or 50s when he inherits, and I don't think people in Britain just want the sense that this young man is marking time. So he's got to choose a real career.
ARBITER: He might go slightly one step further. Roberts says going in the army which is probably quite correct. You've got to bear in mind that his father, the prince of Wales, went into the Navy as his primary career in the forces, but he also did some service with a parachute regiment and did parachute drops. And he also did a bit of air force and learned to fly. Now, you've got to remember that when William comes to the throne, he will be, as you say in America, commander-in-chief. And therefore, a bit of experience in each service is probably what is required.
KING: Brownsfield, Texas, hello.
CALLER: Hello. You know, I think over the years, we have seen most members of the royal family, and William looks just like his mother. Who does Harry look like?
KING: Yes, there are suspicions about that, Harold. What do you make of it?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think it's nothing more than coincidence and the fact that Harry looks a great deal like his mother's family -- the same kind of red hair, the same kind of bone structure. If you want to read more into it than is there, you're welcome to, but I think it's a waste of time. There is no question whatsoever...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS-BAKER: There's no question whatsoever that these boys...
LACEY (ph): Harold's absolutely right there. And if you look at Harry and then you look at his aunt, Sarah McCorquedale (ph), they're very much alike. There is the Spencer ginger hair...
KING: The rumor started because of the affair with...
LACEY (ph): Yes, but...
KING: ... someone who's fair-skinned, right?
LACEY (ph): ... it's a nonsense rumor. But he does have the Spencer coloring.
KING: Mount Vernon, Illinois. Hello.
CALLER: Hi. I just want to say hi, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: And I wanted to ask the panel, would either one have any idea how Princess Diana would feel about her boys and the criticism of Harry?
KING: What do you think she'd be thinking now? We'll go to Hugo.
VICKERS: Well, I think she would be very disturbed by the way he's criticized but I mean, she would have encouraged him to realize that that's partly his lot, as we've already said this evening, and also that these things pass, as Dickie has very rightly said. I think that, you know, Prince Harry -- he comes up into the news perhaps what, two or three times a year. People have a bit of a go at him, and the rest of the time, quite honestly, he is pretty much left in peace. But she would obviously have wanted to be very supportive to him, I think, to answer the question.
KING: We will take a break and be back with more calls on our the panel on the royals. Tomorrow night, a look at the life and times of Rock Hudson. Among the guests will be Tony Randall and Gina Lollabrigida (ph). Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Chicago, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. My question is for the panel and it's about Prince Charles and his relationship with his parents as you well know, it's -- seems like it's very complicated with Queen Elizabeth. It's often described as a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) relationship, not necessarily emotional with Prince Phillip, at times they have apparently stopped talking. My question is, now that the queen and duke are older and now that the queen has fewer close family members, her mother and sister have passed away, has the relationship between the prince and his parents evolved at all or where do you think it stands?
KING: Dickie?
ARBITER: I think it's got better than it has been in the past. You know, families always have differences of opinion.
KING: Yes, they do.
ARBITER: And you can't always agree. You know, it happens in every family. People perceive the relationship is strained. It isn't strained. Yes, his father was tough on him as a kid. Most fathers are tough on their kids. You know, get a bit of backbone. He's a man that has been going through the past 35, nearly 40 years looking for a role for himself and he's created that role. Some people don't agree with what he's doing. Some people don't agree with his ideas, but that is healthy. You know, he believes in what he is doing and I think the relationship with his parents is very good. I mean, we saw, again, the golden jubilee last year when they were in same company. And there was animation between them. Yes, it's pretty good. Parents and children have differences of opinion.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Cincinnati, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Two questions, number one, will Prince Charles have to give up his role as the head of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Church if he marries a Catholic or will there have to an amendment allowing him to do so? And the second question is, with Prince Charles and Camilla Parker-Bowles, what is the difference between his uncle Wallace Simpson other than Wallace Simpson being an American.
KING: Harold. BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think the difference is many years have passed and we don't look on these things today the way we did a half century ago. And Mrs. Parker-Bowles is not a Roman Catholic. Her husband is. So, we don't have to worry about that one. If he married a Roman Catholic, of course, the situation would change dramaticly. They'd probably have to change the law. But I don't see the Prince of Wales marrying anyone other than Mrs. Parker-Bowles.
KING: Isla Verde, Puerto Rico, hello.
CALLER: Thank you, Larry.
I have question for the panel.
When is Prince Edward and Sophie's baby due?
KING: Do you know, Hugo?
VICKERS: September, yes. And she is still taking a lot of engagements. And there was a very appealing photograph of her bearing before all if I am put it like that. There is very firm evidence that the pregnancy going well and she is also looking good. And best of luck to her because she had a rotten time about a year ago and so let's hope all is well.
KING: Cherry Valley, California, hello.
CALLER: Thank you for taking my call, Larry.
My question is, at the time of funeral of Diana when the casket went by the queen and the royal family, they all bowed their head with the exception of Margaret.
Was there a slight on that part from her?
KING: Robert.
LACEY: I think one could read that into it, certainly, yes. It was a very last minute addition to the ceremony, that because the route had been extended because of the great fears of too many people crowding the rather short ceremonial route. It was suddenly realized I believe on the morning of the funeral that the coffin would pass by Buckingham Palace and it would look terrible if it just went by without any token of respect from the royal family. So they came literally rushing down on to the pavement. The queen certainly bowed her head. The queen mother followed. Princess Margaret, I think, always had difficulties with Diana. Well, they were friends to start with, but came to feel that she was a bad influence on the monarchy and maybe that showed in that moment.
KING: Dickie shaking his head?
ARBITER: Yes. I was at all the planning meetings. I was responsible for the media arrangements and no members of the media family members rushed out on the day because we had extended the route. Diana died on Saturday night, Sunday morning, and the plans went ahead on the Monday. And we extended the route on the Wednesday. So we knew that the gun carriage past the Buchingham Palace on the Friday -- on the Saturday, I beg your pardon. And, you know, the royal family knew they had to come out to acknowledge that the carriage going past. I think Robert is very right, you know, they all bowed except Princess Margaret. I think she had difficulty in coming to terms, but she had already sort of suffered a stroke by then. Whether that had an affect, I don't know. Maybe I'm making an excuse.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more moments with the discussion on the royals. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Pottsville, Pennsylvania, hello.
CALLER: Oh, hello. Mr. King...
KING: Hi.
CALLER: ...thank you for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: And, tell Prince Harry, happy birthday.
KING: Happy birthday, Prince Harry.
CALLER: OK.
KING: Spot on (ph).
CALLER: And my question is, to the whole panel, is Prince Harry, like, into sports?
KING: Is he into sports? Do we know, Harold?
BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, yes. He is very much into sports. And, he is a great follower of polo and many other sports.
He is very much like the Hanoverian ancestors from whom he descends and I think that you'll see he is not only well-rounded but will become more well-rounded as time goes on.
But don't be fooled by the fact he's not scholastic, because he's very brainy indeed.
KING: Petaluma, California, hello.
CALLER: Thank you, Larry, for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: I was in Europe this summer, and had a very lively discussion with this British man that the British people blame Diana for the marriage breakup and he called her -- that she was just mad. And I thought that was quite humorous and I would like for the panel to talk about that. Thank you very much.
KING: Dickie?
ARBITER: First of all, she wasn't mad. I mean, to suggest that she was mad is -- we say in England, bonkers. No, she wasn't mad at all.
She'd gone through quite a traumatic period in that, yes, she'd had an affair. Her husband was having an affair. She had -- she admitted at the end cooperated in a book.
The ultimate breakup in her marriage -- I think it's sort of tough things ...
KING: Sure.
ARBITER: ...for anybody in any family. But to have it probed by the media, you know, constantly in the spotlight...
KING: Oh, of course.
ARBITER: ...that's even tougher. But mad she wasn't.
KING: Victoria, British Columbia, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Good evening, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: I have two questions for the panel.
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: How does Prince Harry and Prince William feel about their father's ongoing affair with Camilla? And did Prince Charles' mother ever reprimand him for this affair, especially while he was married?
KING: Hugo, do we know?
VICKERS: It seems that the two boys liked Camilla and get on well with her. And I think that's a very significant, very important.
As for the Queen reprimanding Prince Charles, it is not her way. She does not -- she's not a great one for getting involved in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) things. She feels that people should be allowed to go their own way as much as possible unless things go too far. And then, of course, as Dickie just said, after the Diana panorama interview, particularly, the Queen really felt that things had gone too far ...
KING: Yes.
VICKERS: ...and she very cleverly commanded that they should get divorced, which meant to say that neither of them were perceived to have instigated proceedings. Neither of them wanted to be the first one, as it were, to cast a stone.
KING: Atlanta, hello.
CALLER: Yes. My question is for Hugo Vickers.
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: I'm reading your book right now and enjoying it so much and I want to know what the Queen's relationship was to Alice, her mother-in-law, and Prince Phillip's relationship to his mother.
VICKERS: Well, thank you very much for asking me that.
The Queen didn't really know Princess Alice terribly well until she came to live at Buckingham Palace in 1967 on the specific invitation of the Queen. The Queen wanted her to come because she was old and getting very difficult in Greece. And then, of course, when Princess Alice arrived at the palace, the first thing she said to the Queen was, You know, I don't really want to come here. But King Constantine says I've got to, which I think the Queen thought was rather ungrateful.
So Queen was very, very good to her. Used to go and see her a lot and spent a lot of time with her.
Prince Phillip, naturally, found his mother more difficult. He was very good to his mother. He supported her. He -- financially and went to see her very often and he once flew her in his plane all the way from -- he flew from Balmoral all the way to Germany when she was ill to see her. He was good to her, but I think he did find it a little bit more difficult as very often perhaps sons and mothers do.
KING: We only have a minute-and-a-half left.
Mr. Lacey, did you see Mr. Hewitt here Friday night and what did you think?
LACEY: Well, I thought you did a wonderful job, Larry. You revived him from the dead. I mean, how you can spend a whole hour talking to somebody who's only prepared to say yes or no...
KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
LACEY: I don't know if the man's stupid of I don't know if he just has done so many embarrassing things he doesn't want to talk about. But I thought it was a masterpiece on your part, at least.
KING: Dickie?
ARBITER: Yes, I thought....
KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) him?
ARBITER: Oh, well, you know, there's a program in England on radio on the BBC called "Brain of Britain" and he is not it.
KING: Harold, what did you think?
BROOKS-BAKER: I thought it was a very interesting foray into no man's land, Larry, and I also congratulate you. But I mean, without programs like that once in a while, we wouldn't be appreciated, would we? So, I think...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: And Hugo, the final word is yours.
VICKERS: Yes, well, I think you were very generous to him. I would have given him a much harder time. I mean, I felt that somehow you let him off the hook. But maybe that's the skill of the program, that you let everybody have a chance.
One thing -- Iraq. You asked him about Iraq and he explained the whole thing. Or did he? Not really very well, I don't think. He's not going to be a war correspondent.
KING: Thank you all very much. Robert Lacey, Dickie Arbiter, Harold Brooks-Baker and Hugo Vickers. And earlier, Arianna Huffington, withdrawing from the race.
I'll be back in a minute and tell you about tomorrow night. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Tomorrow night, we remember Rock Hudson. And among the guests will be Tony Randall and Liz Smith and Gina Lollobrigida.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
British Royalty>
Aired September 30, 2003 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight the royal wildcard has just turned 19. Is Prince Harry still raising hell?
Is he fit for the army or the throne?
We are going to ask royals watcher Robert Lacey the author, "Monarch."
Also in London, Hugo Vickers and other best selling royals biographer, Dickie Arbiter, the queens former press secretary.
And Harold Brooks-Baker, director of Burke's Peerage.
But first, exclusive. Is Arianna Huffington in or out of the California recall race? We'll get the scoop right here right now on LARRY KING LIVE.
OK. We won't dilly-dally. What are you going to do, independent candidate California gubernatorial race, syndicated columnist, author, Arianna Huffington? The election is a week from -- a week off -- a week from today.
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON: I'm pulling out and I am going to concentrate every ounce of time and energy over the next week working to defeat the recall, because I've realized that that's the only way now to defeat Arnold Schwarzenegger.
KING: So that's your purpose?
HUFFINGTON: That's my purpose. My purpose is...
KING: Because you were in favor of the recall?
HUFFINGTON: I was against the recall on principle. I've always believed that this is not the way to run a democracy. But I saw the opportunity provided to elect with a simple plurality an independent, progressive governor. Now that this is clear this is not going to happen, I believe that there's a clear and present danger, Larry, when it comes to the Pete Wilson Republican forces using Schwarzenegger, really, to get back in control of the state, because Arnold Schwarzenegger is a charming man. He's a nice man, but really, he has no idea how to run a state, and he is going to be run by the very forces that basically have destroyed so much of California. The very forces that really brought us the energy deregulation, the workers comp deregulation.
KING: The Wilson forces?
HUFFINGTON: The Wilson forces.
KING: Why not then endorse Bustamante?
HUFFINGTON: Because right now I believe that what I brought to this campaign is all the emphasis on the power of the special interest money to distort our policy priorities, and I want to make sure that even all the people who supported me, who were with me all the way and who cared just as much about the corruption of money in politics, I want them to realize that right now there's a greater danger. And that's the danger that can only be averted by voting no on the recall, and that's the danger of the Republicans who brought us all the things that I mentioned before, who are connected to the Bush Republicans in Washington, hijacking the state.
KING: All right. Who -- you will vote no on recall then. Are you going to vote for anyone for governor?
HUFFINGTON: Yes, I will. And I'm asking all my supporters to vote strategically, but to make the decision...
KING: Strategically how?
HUFFINGTON: ... just before the election. We'll know what happens. Because, you know what, Larry? This election is still very fluid, and a lot is going to change, and the highest priority right now is to get people who are independent, because they're the people I'm appealing to, to realize that Arnold Schwarzenegger is not an independent.
KING: So you're telling your voters to vote against recall...
HUFFINGTON: Right.
KING: And then do what?
HUFFINGTON: And then basically decide nearer the election whether it's best for them to vote for Bustamante, or what they want to do. But they don't have to decide that yet, because a lot is going to change between now and then...
KING: What's going to...
HUFFINGTON: And right now, remember, I understand why independents are drawn to Schwarzenegger, because they're fed up with the current system.
KING: And he's a moderate Republican.
HUFFINGTON: He's not a moderate Republican.
KING: He's not a moderate Republican? HUFFINGTON: He's a moderate on social issues, but the social issues are not really the key issues right now. The key issue in California is the budget, and Schwarzenegger has offered no proposals to balance the budget. He has said there will be no tax increases, he has said that there will be a balanced budget. Therefore, there has to be spending cuts, and you know what, Larry? The spending cuts are going to come out of programs that are going to basically hurting the millions of Californians who are already struggling. I have a sense of a deja vu. That's really what my sense of foreboding is...
KING: All over again?
HUFFINGTON: All over again. You know, in 2000, remember, we were promised a different kind of a Republican. George Bush. A compassionate conservative, who spoke a little Spanish, who liked minorities, who would be different. And then we woke up with a nightmare of a warmonger who took a $500 billion surplus and turned it into a $500 billion deficit, millions of jobs lost. And I predict, and I want to go up and down the state the next week, letting people know that if we elect Schwarzenegger, we are going to wake up to the same nightmare.
KING: But if you vote against recall, you want Gray Davis to remain as governor?
HUFFINGTON: Well, that's what it means. And you know what? I haven't really said a lot of nice things about Gray Davis.
KING: No, you haven't.
HUFFINGTON: But that's not the point right now. Right now...
KING: You mean it's more important that he remain as governor?
HUFFINGTON: It's more important that he remains as governor. He's learned a lot of lessons, and most important, the next time there's an election, we can actually put center stage these issues of money in politics. I already have filed an initiative to clean elections in California, clean money initiative. People can go to vote, Arianna.com. We'll change the name tomorrow, and be able to get involved in collecting the signatures and putting it on the ballot. There is a lot we can do, but we won't be able to do any of that if the Republicans use this recall to come back in power and do in Sacramento what they have done in Washington.
KING: Mr. Schwarzenegger went up right after the debate. In retrospect -- you were pretty tough in that debate -- do you think you helped him?
HUFFINGTON: Oh, of course not. He went up after...
KING: Why did he go up?
HUFFINGTON: He went up because he's been doing wall-to-wall advertising.
KING: You don't think it was the debate?
HUFFINGTON: No. I don't think it's the debate at all. I think it was the fact that he turned up for the debate and he didn't slur his words. You know, he's a smart man. That's not the problem. He hurt himself with women. There's no question about that. As I've been going up and down the state, his comments, his condescension really hurt him with women. He already has a large gender gap. It's going to get larger in the next week, because we're going to talk about the fact that even though he did his Oprah strategy and talked about women, the truth is, there isn't a single woman on his economic team. There are thousands of successful, brilliant women in California. Couldn't he find one to put on the economic team?
KING: Is it true you told the Green Party candidate you were thinking of doing this, and he told you not to do it?
HUFFINGTON: Well, a lot of people had told me not to do it. A lot of my supporters are people who believe that we could change the system. And I know we can. We planted a lot of seeds.
We actually brought back a lot of disaffected voters. That is the hardest thing for me, Larry, you know, to see people on the campaign trail who would say to me, I haven't voted for 20 years, I'm going to vote for you, or I just registered for the first time. So I am telling all of them, I know how you feel, I know how deeply you long to change the system. I will keep working for the rest of my life to change the system, but right now, there's a clear danger and we cannot pretend it's not there.
KING: So when you say vote strategically and you say don't vote for me because I'm out of the race...
HUFFINGTON: Right.
KING: You're saying Bustamante -- unless you're saying vote for McClintock? Are you saying that, too? What are you saying? Strategically, what?
HUFFINGTON: What I'm saying is that I want people to vote their conscience, but make sure that whatever their vote is, it does not put Schwarzenegger in the state house. I don't think it's difficult for people to decide that. And what I'm saying above all is don't decide right now. There's a whole week ahead, and a lot is going to change. The polls right now are meaningless. I think you guys at CNN would have a lot of explaining to do about your poll, it will be an embarrassment on October 8, I don't think the result will be anything like what the poll said.
KING: You think the recall can be defeated?
HUFFINGTON: Absolutely, the recall can be defeated. And unfortunately, the polls make people feel discouraged. And that's one of my main problems with polls. So I want people to work very hard to make sure the recall is defeated.
KING: Couple of other things. Wouldn't Bustamante represent a lot of your feelings, a lot of your political feelings, in areas both social and otherwise?
HUFFINGTON: Absolutely. I think Bustamante also did a very good thing on Sunday. He endorsed my initiative for clean elections. I thought that was really very generous.
KING: So why not ask your people to vote for him?
HUFFINGTON: I may do that. All I'm saying is that right now, I have made already a lot of important decisions. If you go to our Web site, you'll three no's and one yes. No on the recall. No on Schwarzenegger. No on Prop 54. Yes on the clean money initiative. That's a lot for one day. We have a week ahead. It's going to be a very intense week of campaigning, and by the end of the week, we'll know much more of where we are than we do today.
KING: So you're going to go up and down the state now, urging against recall?
HUFFINGTON: Right. And against Schwarzenegger, and basically, opening people's eyes to who Schwarzenegger truly is. You know, he entered the race saying he's going to be an independent, and surrounded himself with Pete Wilson operatives. He entered the race saying he's going to take no special interest money, and has taken millions from developers, from agribusiness, from a guy in Montana who has been accused of spoiling the environment.
KING: Why do you think he's doing so well, then?
HUFFINGTON: Because there is that longing, Larry, for something different, for somebody who's an outsider. People know the system is broken.
KING: So you understand that?
HUFFINGTON: I understand the longing. But that's why I'm going to talk to the people who have the longing that I share. And tell them wake up, this is a wake-up call.
KING: Thank you, Arianna.
HUFFINGTON: Thank you.
KING: Out in the hustings, Arianna Huffington leaves the race tonight and urges to vote no on recall, and says wait before you decide after you vote no who to vote for. But you don't have to vote for her.
When we come back, the royals. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We always like to get caught up with the doings of the royals. In London is Robert Lacey, best-selling author and veteran royal watcher. His book, "Great Tales From English History: The Truth About King Arthur, Lady Godiva, Richard the Lionhearted and More," is due for release in the United States next summer, and his book, "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II," is out in trade paperback. Here in Los Angeles, back in the States again, is Dickie Arbiter, former spokesman for Buckingham Palace, former press officer for the queen and the prince and princess of Wales. In London is Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of the distinguished "Burke's Peerage." And also in London is Hugo Vickers, best-selling biographer, veteran royal watcher. His books include "Alice: Princess Andrew of Greece," a biography of Prince Philip's mother.
All the news lately is about Prince Harry turning 19 and getting a lot of criticism from the press. Deserved, Robert?
ROBERT LACEY, AUTHOR, "MONARCH": I'm not sure whether we should be criticizing Harry or his advisers out in Australia. What the fuss about is the fact that, having gone out there to be a jackaroo, we're told, which is -- well, I'm not quite sure what a jackaroo is -- I don't know if you know, Larry -- but working on a ranch or a homestead in Australia. His people have complained that he's getting too much press attention.
I myself actually don't have much sympathy with this. It seems to me that his life as a prince is not to be spent on horseback, herding sheep but actually dealing with the press. And if he can't deal with the press, then we've got a problem on our hands.
KING: Dickie, the tabloids respond to Harry's complaints about branding him a "bleeding whiner," as they've called him. "The Daily Star" called him a "lazy loafer." "The Daily Mail" has said he's "pathetic," "a jackass." What -- well, we might ask this -- who cares? He's 19 years old.
DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO THE QUEEN: Yes. Who cares? He's 19 years old. I think the papers have actually got it wrong. And quite frankly, as you say, he is 19 years old. He's gone out to Australia to this cattle station in the middle of Queensland. Quite frankly, I slight disagree with Robert there. I think the advisers did get it wrong because there was a press facility, a photo call in Sidney when he arrived, and they kept the location of the cattle station a secret, Tulumbila (ph). And you cannot keep a secret these days. Somebody is going to let it out somewhere along the line.
They should have done a press facility up there. Then everybody would have gone away happy. But instead, they didn't. Everybody crowded around because they wanted that picture of him in the bush. And I don't think they got it.
KING: By the way, we'll be going to calls at the bottom of the hour. Any questions about all the doings of the royals.
What do you make of the Australia story and young Harry, Harold?
HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, PUB. DIR., "BURKE'S PEERAGE": Well, I think that it's another case of a spare, a young Prince waiting to find out what he should really be doing because there is no legitimate place for him, historically speaking, and he'll just have to sit around, waiting to see if he's called. One hopes that it never will be the case, that his brother will be king. But Harry, on the other hand has shown, I think, a lot of intestinal fortitude by meeting his responsibilities as best as he can. He's going -- during this gap year, he's going to try lots of things and see what he likes the most and probably will turn out to be a very able person in the military. I mean, that's what he's headed for. He is not a scholastic. He's not brilliant, but he is intelligent.
KING: Hugo Vickers, is he kind of in never-never-land, the younger brother who -- who what?
(LAUGHTER)
HUGO VICKERS, AUTHOR, "ALICE: PRINCESS ANDREW OF GREECE": Well, never--land--never-- I mean, he's -- there he is, he's the younger brother. Now, sometimes, in a sense, that can be quite a nice role because the main responsibility isn't on you. And then I have great sympathy for him, as far as the press are concerned, because the press are pretty beastly to all the royal family these days.
It's quite traditional for youngsters in this country to go out to Australia. It's very important that we should send one of our princes out. After all, Australia is still part of the British -- the commonwealth and there are very strong links between the two countries. Prince Charles very much enjoyed his time out there. I think that did him a lot of good. And I have a feeling, actually, that the press will soon get bored of flying over his cattle ranch and will leave him alone, and hopefully, he'll have a good time and come back a better fellow for it.
KING: Robert, what about the reports that say he's still too immature?
LACEY: Well, that, I think, is unfair on a kid who's only 19, who lost his mother in the tragic circumstances we all know about. I think there's a lot of double standards in all this reporting on Harry. I think William gets talked up as probably being much better than he actually is. And I think when it comes to Harry -- we've been talking a lot about this younger brother syndrome -- it's people want him to be a scapegoat. People want him to get the bad headlines. And of course, there's always the risk that he may be tempted to play up to that. But I must say, I don't think that's the case so far.
KING: They compare them, though, don't they, naturally, Dickie.
ARBITER: Yes, they do. Robert's got it spot on. They're playing...
KING: Got it what?
ARBITER: Pardon?
KING: What has he got?
ARBITER: He's got it spot on.
KING: Spot on?
ARBITER: Yes, spot on.
KING: Right on.
(LAUGHTER)
ARBITER: No, he has got it right on because, quite frankly, they're trying to play one off against the other. Harry is not over- endowed with brains. I mean, he didn't get high grades in his final exams. But then, you know, exams are not the be-all and end-all at school because he has shown aptitude for the military. We've seen him there in the cadet force at Eaton, and I think he's going to be very good in the army. And meanwhile, let's leave him alone. Let him enjoy himself in Australia. After all, the queen is queen of Australia, so it is a realm. And they quite like the idea of having him out there.
KING: Are there some criticisms, Harold, by the Australians about spending money on this?
BROOKS-BAKER: There seems to be relatively little, compared to the criticism of the past. Certainly, Australia seems to have forgotten the idea of republicanism and is now giving, I think, almost complete support to the idea of backing the queen. So far, so good. But remember that this young man is a person, no matter how well he does in the military -- and I'm sure he'll do very well indeed -- without a real place. He will never have the kind of job that will be able to consume his every waking hour. He is simply like the vice president of the United States used to be, somebody waiting to hear about the health of his brother.
KING: And Hugo, how long does he stay in Australia?
VICKERS: Well, he's going to be there for his -- most of his gap year. There has been talk, of course, about bringing him home on account of all this press publicity, but I hope very much that that doesn't happen. As I say, I'm sure he'll just settle in. There is some talk about him having a two-year gap, which is quite unusual. It's quite normal for people to go off for a year and find their feet in another country and do lots of different things. But you know, then he will go to Sandhurst, by the sound of it.
KING: We're going to take a break and come back. We'll be going to your calls shortly. As you can tell, this panel is sure spot on. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: In October, Prince Charles is expected to visit India. Is Camilla Parker Bowles going to escort him, Robert?
LACEY: Well, I have no inside knowledge on that, but I would have thought there is quite a chance that he will. Camilla remains a source of controversy in this country, the fact that she's now moved in with Prince Charles to his new home, the queen mother's old home on the mall by Buckingham Palace, Clarence House. The fact that taxpayers' money was spent on this I don't think would normally have been controversial, but people don't like subsidizing someone they see as responsible for the break-up of the dream marriage.
Another question we wonder about in the future is whether Prince Charles is going to be in this country when Mr. Bush comes to visit in November on his state visit because Prince Charles is definitely a private critic, very severe, of Mr. Bush and the war, and he may just...
KING: Oh, he is?
LACEY: ... choose not to be present for all the ceremonies.
KING: What will it mean if Camilla goes with him? Will there be implications in that, Dickie?
ARBITER: Yes, I don't -- I don't think she will be going with him because you go tot remember that the prince of Wales will be going to India on behalf of the British government. So his trip is paid for by the government, by the Foreign Office, and, at the end of the day, by the taxpayer. So I don't think she will be going unless he pays for her to go, but she certainly wouldn't accompany him on any of the official engagements.
KING: Did you know that he was opposed to the war in Iraq?
ARBITER: Well, he's made his views known privately, but I think he will be in the country because he is heir to the throne and he is there to support the queen, and it is his duty to be there.
KING: Harold, are they going to get married?
BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, I don't think there's any question about it. They will eventually be married, but whether it's tomorrow or a year from tomorrow is impossible to say right now. It is perfectly obvious that she is with him constantly. They share the same house, as Robert said. They are considered a couple already, and everything except marriage has been handed to them. I think it's a question of a very short time, but the prince of Wales will wish to see, as indeed the queen will wish to see, that everything is OK, that there is no great problem from a PR point of view. And PR is the game right now.
KING: So it's not it, but when.
ARBITER: I wouldn't hold your breath on the marriage, quite frankly.
KING: No?
ARBITER: No. I'm not of the view that they will get married.
KING: Now about Prince William, before we break and go to calls. Hugo, apparently, he was slammed by animal rights campaigners. He speared a small antelope? Is that true? And has he borne the wrath of it? VICKERS: Well, unfortunately, whenever members of the royal family get involved in anything like that, they naturally come up against the people who dislike this sort of thing. It's the same as, occasionally, when they go hunting or whatever. But that is another drama which seems to have died down.
But if I could just revert to that Camilla and India and Prince Charles and President Bush thing -- I mean, Dickie's absolutely right. Prince Charles must support the queen. If the British government wants President Bush to come on a state visit, the queen will be his host, and Prince Charles must be there to support her.
But let us not forget that when the president of China came, he refused to go to the state banquet given by the president as his return banquet, which I thought was very unfortunate because if he had suddenly become king shortly afterwards and if the government had wanted him to pay a state visit to China, it might have made things rather difficult. So whatever his private views are, unfortunately, as living in the world of a constitutional monarchy, he has to rather just bite his lip and turn up and make a good show for the guest of his country.
KING: And will William turn up, too, Dickie?
ARBITER: No. He's not -- he's not in the frame on these sort of things. He...
KING: He doesn't have to be there.
ARBITER: No, he doesn't have to be there. None of the kids have to be there. It is there for the sort of older generation. Hugo is absolutely right that the prince of Wales didn't turn up to the return banquet given by the Chinese president, but he was there for the Buckingham Palace banquet. He has to be there.
KING: We'll take a break and come back and go to your phone calls. We'll reintroduce our panel, as well. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back. I'll reintroduce the panel, then go to your calls. In London, Robert Lacey. We're looking forward to his new book next summer, "Great Tales From English History. In Los Angeles is Dickie Arbiter, the former spokesperson for Buckingham Palace. In London is Harold Brooks-Baker, publishing director of "Burke's Peerage." And also in London, Hugo Vickers, the best-selling biographer and veteran royal watcher. His books include, "Alice: Princess Andrew of Greece."
To your calls. Liberty Town, Maryland. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CLINTON: Thank you for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: I was wondering if the reason that Harry may be a little bit rebellious might be because of the vulnerable age that he was when his mother died?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: That's a very good question. People close to the family have come to that very same conclusion. Though, oddly, at the time, it seems, in 1997, when Diana died, on the surface, Harry, little boy still -- I mean, physically a very little boy, if one remembers those pictures of him walking down the mall behind his mother's coffin -- he seemed to take it much more evenly, whereas William was the one who right up until the night before the funeral wasn't sure if he wanted to walk in the funeral procession. But I'm sure psychoanalysts in the future will have a field day working out the impact of all of that on the kids.
KING: Kingston, New York. Hello.
CALLER: Yes. When I lived in England, I observed firsthand how hard the royals work for the various allowances. Does the panel believe that the majority of British people appreciate the excellent value for money they're getting from their royals? And by the way, Prince Charles is a brilliant visionary.
KING: Dickie, do they?
ARBITER: I think they do get value for money. All you've got to do is look at the crowds that turned out last year at the queen's golden jubilee and that long weekend in June.
KING: It's all PR, isn't it?
ARBITER: Yes. Yes, but life is PR, isn't it. But really, they turned out. There were a million people around Buckingham Palace on the Monday and a million people on Tuesday, and that is a lot of people. You couldn't move for people. They were waving flags. They enjoyed the singing. Now, there are cynics who say, Well, they would have been there anyway because it was a party. But they weren't dragged there kicking and screaming. They went there because they wanted to be there. And then they stood outside Buckingham Palace and the band played the national anthem, and they sang it. Yes, they do get value for money.
KING: Harold, do you share that view?
BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, I certainly do share that the view, and I'm sure that Kitty Kelley, if she were with us, would agree. The royal family is very generous. The queen gives approximately 100 million pounds a year to the chancellor of the exchequer from the crown lands. She is the only head of state in the world who pays handsomely for having a job that nobody else in his right mind would wish to have.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Kalamazoo, Michigan. Hello.
CALLER: Hello, Mr. King.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: Thank you for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: I particularly enjoyed Mr. Lacey's book, "Monarch." And my question tonight regards the line of succession throughout British history. It has gone through the female. Now, traditionally, it goes through the male. What effect, if any, assuming Prince Charles becomes king, would it have had if his children had been female instead of male?
KING: Robert? Just conjecture.
LACEY: Well, the rule at the moment is that the male comes first and male succession dominates. We've had great monarchs, like Elizabeth I and Queen Victoria because there have been no males senior to them. But there is talk, in the future, that maybe that will be changed and it'll be the first child out, male or female, who gets the succession. The answer to your question about Prince Charles's children -- if he had had, say, first a daughter and then a son, then the younger child, the son, would, in fact, have inherited over the daughter.
ARBITER: And then, of course, we've got to add to that, Larry -- George the VI, the queen's father, had two daughters. So that answers the question, the line of succession.
KING: Hugo, what makes a great monarch?
VICKERS: Well, I think that a sort of inner strength of character is very important. We talked a little bit about working within the frame work of a constitutional monarchy. I think that the great thing about our queen, who I believe very firmly is one of the great monarchs, is the fact that she is very happy doing her job. She knows the limitations and the constrictions, and she works within them. And she's very wise, and she has taken the trouble to remain consistently extremely well informed about everything. She's a very, very good ambassador for our country. She's extremely good with visiting heads of state.
I mean, she will be the person -- she will spend more time with George Bush when he's over here than Mr. Blair will. I mean, he will be staying with the queen, and they will spend a lot of time together. She has very, very good, quiet influence behind the scenes. And that is, I think, one of the qualities of a great monarch.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS-BAKER: ... to interfere a bit. KING: McAllen, Texas. Hello.
CALLER: Do you see a parallel in the way the press pursued Diana and the way the press is now pursuing Harry?
KING: Do you see that, Dickie?
ARBITER: That's a difficult question to answer. It's quite an interesting question.
KING: It is.
ARBITER: They pursued Diana in the initial stages, when she and the prince of Wales got married, because she was a very beautiful woman and it was the first big marriage since the princess royal married in 1973. And she was captivating. But they continued pursuing her, and we know what happened in 1997. You know, we lay the blame at the door of the press, but it wasn't just that. There was an accident. It was an accident that shouldn't have happened, but it did happen.
Pursuing Harry -- I don't think they're pursuing Harry. Quite frankly, what the Australians wanted -- they got their picture in Sidney. They wanted a picture of him working, and now they've probably gone away and that's the end of it. I don't think they're pursuing in the same way as they pursued Diana.
KING: Memphis. Hello.
CALLER: Hello?
KING: Yes? Go ahead.
CALLER: I was just wondering, since we've touched on Prince Harry possibly making a career of himself in the army, do we know of, as far as what possibly Prince William will be doing, as far as career-wise or what -- while he's waiting to be king?
KING: Do we know, Robert?
LACEY: Well, again, the bets are, strangely, that he also will go in the army. That seems to be the safe option, the option he'd like. Both boys have a great influence -- great interest in that area -- strangely, in view of their mother's rather well-known pacifism. It's a really challenge for William, and I don't know the answer because he could well be in his late 40s or 50s when he inherits, and I don't think people in Britain just want the sense that this young man is marking time. So he's got to choose a real career.
ARBITER: He might go slightly one step further. Roberts says going in the army which is probably quite correct. You've got to bear in mind that his father, the prince of Wales, went into the Navy as his primary career in the forces, but he also did some service with a parachute regiment and did parachute drops. And he also did a bit of air force and learned to fly. Now, you've got to remember that when William comes to the throne, he will be, as you say in America, commander-in-chief. And therefore, a bit of experience in each service is probably what is required.
KING: Brownsfield, Texas, hello.
CALLER: Hello. You know, I think over the years, we have seen most members of the royal family, and William looks just like his mother. Who does Harry look like?
KING: Yes, there are suspicions about that, Harold. What do you make of it?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think it's nothing more than coincidence and the fact that Harry looks a great deal like his mother's family -- the same kind of red hair, the same kind of bone structure. If you want to read more into it than is there, you're welcome to, but I think it's a waste of time. There is no question whatsoever...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS-BAKER: There's no question whatsoever that these boys...
LACEY (ph): Harold's absolutely right there. And if you look at Harry and then you look at his aunt, Sarah McCorquedale (ph), they're very much alike. There is the Spencer ginger hair...
KING: The rumor started because of the affair with...
LACEY (ph): Yes, but...
KING: ... someone who's fair-skinned, right?
LACEY (ph): ... it's a nonsense rumor. But he does have the Spencer coloring.
KING: Mount Vernon, Illinois. Hello.
CALLER: Hi. I just want to say hi, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: And I wanted to ask the panel, would either one have any idea how Princess Diana would feel about her boys and the criticism of Harry?
KING: What do you think she'd be thinking now? We'll go to Hugo.
VICKERS: Well, I think she would be very disturbed by the way he's criticized but I mean, she would have encouraged him to realize that that's partly his lot, as we've already said this evening, and also that these things pass, as Dickie has very rightly said. I think that, you know, Prince Harry -- he comes up into the news perhaps what, two or three times a year. People have a bit of a go at him, and the rest of the time, quite honestly, he is pretty much left in peace. But she would obviously have wanted to be very supportive to him, I think, to answer the question.
KING: We will take a break and be back with more calls on our the panel on the royals. Tomorrow night, a look at the life and times of Rock Hudson. Among the guests will be Tony Randall and Gina Lollabrigida (ph). Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Chicago, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. My question is for the panel and it's about Prince Charles and his relationship with his parents as you well know, it's -- seems like it's very complicated with Queen Elizabeth. It's often described as a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) relationship, not necessarily emotional with Prince Phillip, at times they have apparently stopped talking. My question is, now that the queen and duke are older and now that the queen has fewer close family members, her mother and sister have passed away, has the relationship between the prince and his parents evolved at all or where do you think it stands?
KING: Dickie?
ARBITER: I think it's got better than it has been in the past. You know, families always have differences of opinion.
KING: Yes, they do.
ARBITER: And you can't always agree. You know, it happens in every family. People perceive the relationship is strained. It isn't strained. Yes, his father was tough on him as a kid. Most fathers are tough on their kids. You know, get a bit of backbone. He's a man that has been going through the past 35, nearly 40 years looking for a role for himself and he's created that role. Some people don't agree with what he's doing. Some people don't agree with his ideas, but that is healthy. You know, he believes in what he is doing and I think the relationship with his parents is very good. I mean, we saw, again, the golden jubilee last year when they were in same company. And there was animation between them. Yes, it's pretty good. Parents and children have differences of opinion.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Cincinnati, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Two questions, number one, will Prince Charles have to give up his role as the head of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Church if he marries a Catholic or will there have to an amendment allowing him to do so? And the second question is, with Prince Charles and Camilla Parker-Bowles, what is the difference between his uncle Wallace Simpson other than Wallace Simpson being an American.
KING: Harold. BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think the difference is many years have passed and we don't look on these things today the way we did a half century ago. And Mrs. Parker-Bowles is not a Roman Catholic. Her husband is. So, we don't have to worry about that one. If he married a Roman Catholic, of course, the situation would change dramaticly. They'd probably have to change the law. But I don't see the Prince of Wales marrying anyone other than Mrs. Parker-Bowles.
KING: Isla Verde, Puerto Rico, hello.
CALLER: Thank you, Larry.
I have question for the panel.
When is Prince Edward and Sophie's baby due?
KING: Do you know, Hugo?
VICKERS: September, yes. And she is still taking a lot of engagements. And there was a very appealing photograph of her bearing before all if I am put it like that. There is very firm evidence that the pregnancy going well and she is also looking good. And best of luck to her because she had a rotten time about a year ago and so let's hope all is well.
KING: Cherry Valley, California, hello.
CALLER: Thank you for taking my call, Larry.
My question is, at the time of funeral of Diana when the casket went by the queen and the royal family, they all bowed their head with the exception of Margaret.
Was there a slight on that part from her?
KING: Robert.
LACEY: I think one could read that into it, certainly, yes. It was a very last minute addition to the ceremony, that because the route had been extended because of the great fears of too many people crowding the rather short ceremonial route. It was suddenly realized I believe on the morning of the funeral that the coffin would pass by Buckingham Palace and it would look terrible if it just went by without any token of respect from the royal family. So they came literally rushing down on to the pavement. The queen certainly bowed her head. The queen mother followed. Princess Margaret, I think, always had difficulties with Diana. Well, they were friends to start with, but came to feel that she was a bad influence on the monarchy and maybe that showed in that moment.
KING: Dickie shaking his head?
ARBITER: Yes. I was at all the planning meetings. I was responsible for the media arrangements and no members of the media family members rushed out on the day because we had extended the route. Diana died on Saturday night, Sunday morning, and the plans went ahead on the Monday. And we extended the route on the Wednesday. So we knew that the gun carriage past the Buchingham Palace on the Friday -- on the Saturday, I beg your pardon. And, you know, the royal family knew they had to come out to acknowledge that the carriage going past. I think Robert is very right, you know, they all bowed except Princess Margaret. I think she had difficulty in coming to terms, but she had already sort of suffered a stroke by then. Whether that had an affect, I don't know. Maybe I'm making an excuse.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more moments with the discussion on the royals. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Pottsville, Pennsylvania, hello.
CALLER: Oh, hello. Mr. King...
KING: Hi.
CALLER: ...thank you for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: And, tell Prince Harry, happy birthday.
KING: Happy birthday, Prince Harry.
CALLER: OK.
KING: Spot on (ph).
CALLER: And my question is, to the whole panel, is Prince Harry, like, into sports?
KING: Is he into sports? Do we know, Harold?
BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, yes. He is very much into sports. And, he is a great follower of polo and many other sports.
He is very much like the Hanoverian ancestors from whom he descends and I think that you'll see he is not only well-rounded but will become more well-rounded as time goes on.
But don't be fooled by the fact he's not scholastic, because he's very brainy indeed.
KING: Petaluma, California, hello.
CALLER: Thank you, Larry, for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: I was in Europe this summer, and had a very lively discussion with this British man that the British people blame Diana for the marriage breakup and he called her -- that she was just mad. And I thought that was quite humorous and I would like for the panel to talk about that. Thank you very much.
KING: Dickie?
ARBITER: First of all, she wasn't mad. I mean, to suggest that she was mad is -- we say in England, bonkers. No, she wasn't mad at all.
She'd gone through quite a traumatic period in that, yes, she'd had an affair. Her husband was having an affair. She had -- she admitted at the end cooperated in a book.
The ultimate breakup in her marriage -- I think it's sort of tough things ...
KING: Sure.
ARBITER: ...for anybody in any family. But to have it probed by the media, you know, constantly in the spotlight...
KING: Oh, of course.
ARBITER: ...that's even tougher. But mad she wasn't.
KING: Victoria, British Columbia, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Good evening, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: I have two questions for the panel.
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: How does Prince Harry and Prince William feel about their father's ongoing affair with Camilla? And did Prince Charles' mother ever reprimand him for this affair, especially while he was married?
KING: Hugo, do we know?
VICKERS: It seems that the two boys liked Camilla and get on well with her. And I think that's a very significant, very important.
As for the Queen reprimanding Prince Charles, it is not her way. She does not -- she's not a great one for getting involved in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) things. She feels that people should be allowed to go their own way as much as possible unless things go too far. And then, of course, as Dickie just said, after the Diana panorama interview, particularly, the Queen really felt that things had gone too far ...
KING: Yes.
VICKERS: ...and she very cleverly commanded that they should get divorced, which meant to say that neither of them were perceived to have instigated proceedings. Neither of them wanted to be the first one, as it were, to cast a stone.
KING: Atlanta, hello.
CALLER: Yes. My question is for Hugo Vickers.
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: I'm reading your book right now and enjoying it so much and I want to know what the Queen's relationship was to Alice, her mother-in-law, and Prince Phillip's relationship to his mother.
VICKERS: Well, thank you very much for asking me that.
The Queen didn't really know Princess Alice terribly well until she came to live at Buckingham Palace in 1967 on the specific invitation of the Queen. The Queen wanted her to come because she was old and getting very difficult in Greece. And then, of course, when Princess Alice arrived at the palace, the first thing she said to the Queen was, You know, I don't really want to come here. But King Constantine says I've got to, which I think the Queen thought was rather ungrateful.
So Queen was very, very good to her. Used to go and see her a lot and spent a lot of time with her.
Prince Phillip, naturally, found his mother more difficult. He was very good to his mother. He supported her. He -- financially and went to see her very often and he once flew her in his plane all the way from -- he flew from Balmoral all the way to Germany when she was ill to see her. He was good to her, but I think he did find it a little bit more difficult as very often perhaps sons and mothers do.
KING: We only have a minute-and-a-half left.
Mr. Lacey, did you see Mr. Hewitt here Friday night and what did you think?
LACEY: Well, I thought you did a wonderful job, Larry. You revived him from the dead. I mean, how you can spend a whole hour talking to somebody who's only prepared to say yes or no...
KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
LACEY: I don't know if the man's stupid of I don't know if he just has done so many embarrassing things he doesn't want to talk about. But I thought it was a masterpiece on your part, at least.
KING: Dickie?
ARBITER: Yes, I thought....
KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) him?
ARBITER: Oh, well, you know, there's a program in England on radio on the BBC called "Brain of Britain" and he is not it.
KING: Harold, what did you think?
BROOKS-BAKER: I thought it was a very interesting foray into no man's land, Larry, and I also congratulate you. But I mean, without programs like that once in a while, we wouldn't be appreciated, would we? So, I think...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: And Hugo, the final word is yours.
VICKERS: Yes, well, I think you were very generous to him. I would have given him a much harder time. I mean, I felt that somehow you let him off the hook. But maybe that's the skill of the program, that you let everybody have a chance.
One thing -- Iraq. You asked him about Iraq and he explained the whole thing. Or did he? Not really very well, I don't think. He's not going to be a war correspondent.
KING: Thank you all very much. Robert Lacey, Dickie Arbiter, Harold Brooks-Baker and Hugo Vickers. And earlier, Arianna Huffington, withdrawing from the race.
I'll be back in a minute and tell you about tomorrow night. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Tomorrow night, we remember Rock Hudson. And among the guests will be Tony Randall and Liz Smith and Gina Lollobrigida.
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